stadium lights

[JRock]

Does anybody know if they are doing anything about the stadium lights for this season? I remember the TV night game vs ULL being a little dark. Just wondering since we will be having a lot more TV games now. Can they use higher wattage bulbs? Just curious.

[Runner]

In other stadiums I've seen them use temporary light towers for TV games.

[Harry]

Are you sure about that Rock? That stadium is supposed to be one of the must well lot in the country...there's some measure like term for it but we had that on a podcast with RV. Maybe they had some technical issues but the place is equipped to be one of the brightest stadiums in the country

[BIG DAWG]

Are you sure about that Rock? That stadium is supposed to be one of the must well lot in the country...there's some measure like term for it but we had that on a podcast with RV. Maybe they had some technical issues but the place is equipped to be one of the brightest stadiums in the country

That's what I remember hearing...

[Mean Green 93-98]

Are you sure about that Rock? That stadium is supposed to be one of the must well lot in the country...there's some measure like term for it but we had that on a podcast with RV. Maybe they had some technical issues but the place is equipped to be one of the brightest stadiums in the country

This is all I could find on a quick search, but I believe it's accurate:

I believe RV said the these lights were 150 footcandles per square foot, and exceed broadcast quality. ESPN won't have to bring lights with them next time they come to Denton. Penn State has 150 footcandles in their stadium too. We are moving up in the world.

Personally, I was amazed at how bright the ULL game was . . . even the corners you could see clear as day.

[adman]

Nothing wrong with the lighting in Apogee.

[UNTflyer]

I seem to recall the stadium lighting at Apogee meets BCS Bowl requirements in terms of candle power.

[Harry]

I seem to recall the stadium lighting at Apogee meets BCS Bowl requirements in terms of candle power.

CANDLE POWER!!!! INDEED!

[Christopher Walker]

Are you sure about that Rock? That stadium is supposed to be one of the must well lot in the country...there's some measure like term for it but we had that on a podcast with RV. Maybe they had some technical issues but the place is equipped to be one of the brightest stadiums in the country

Nothing wrong with the lighting in Apogee.

RV talked the lighting up a lot, but alas it is not actually as bright as he says it is - or - if so, then the camera teams are doing something wrong then. And I'm coming from the perspective of having been to every game and watching replays on TV.

In person: come sundown, the light distribution is shown to be painfully inadequate and only barely covers the field - much less any other portion of the complex.

On TV and in that clip above: it looks actually more like someone left neutral density filters on like you would for a noon game or any other shoot out in the middle of the day. Colors are flat, and crowd shots are super, super dim.

This has always been my only complaint of Apogee, and RV super overhyped it.

CANDLE POWER!!!! INDEED!

Proper term here is candela, but a more appropriate term for the conversation is lumens.

EDIT, source of knowledge and opinion: I've worked in broadcast for a decade now and one of my first positions was in color and light correction; I've been at it for a while.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Christopher Walker

[Harry]

I plan on having another podcast with RV soon -- will bring this issue up! Everything about that stadium was built for outstanding TV broadcasting so this has to be something temporary -- at least I sure hope so. Those are BIG lights...

[NorthTexan95]

I plan on having another podcast with RV soon -- will bring this issue up! Everything about that stadium was built for outstanding TV broadcasting so this has to be something temporary -- at least I sure hope so. Those are BIG lights...

Speaking of Podcasts .. when you have RV on do you send him questions ahead of time or does he take them as they come on air?

It's always great to have RV on. Looking forward to it.

[JesseMartin]

CANDLE POWER!!!! INDEED!

This sounds exciting. I want some Power Candles. I'll call myself Waxman...and you can fear my light-y-ness.

[adman]

On TV and in that clip above: it looks actually more like someone left neutral density filters on like you would for a noon game or any other shoot out in the middle of the day. Colors are flat, and crowd shots are super, super dim.

Ding Ding.

If you watch the entire clip you'll notice how colors pop on a few of the cuts but then back to the muted colors in the others all dependent on which camera is shooting- I agree with you it is most likely production issues i.e. lens filters.

[Harry]

Paging Westie!!!

[Side Show Joe]

I was watching the ULL game the other day on my DVR and Apogee does look a little dark. Our uniforms didn't look Kelly Green in that HD broadcast. That being said, the lighting at Apogee is considerably better then what we had at Fouts.

[North Texas Shep]

I was watching the ULL game the other day on my DVR and Apogee does look a little dark. Our uniforms didn't look Kelly Green in that HD broadcast. That being said, the lighting at Apogee is considerably better then what we had at Fouts.

There was lighting at Fouts?

[JRock]

Are you sure about that Rock? That stadium is supposed to be one of the must well lot in the country...there's some measure like term for it but we had that on a podcast with RV. Maybe they had some technical issues but the place is equipped to be one of the brightest stadiums in the country

Yeah....I remember the candlepower talk but the ULL game on TV was dark. I was at the game that night and a friend texted me that was watching it saying it was dark. Sure enough, when I got home I turned on the DVR and thought the same thing. Maybe it was a tech issue. We will see.

[Harry]

Found this answer from an earlier post:

'97and03', on 30 Jun 2011 - 11:24 PM, said:

RV said we were definately going to over the TV requirements. I don't remember the exact figures, but he did say we were under the requirements at Fouts.

I believe RV said the these lights were 150 footcandles per square foot, and exceed broadcast quality. ESPN won't have to bring lights with them next time they come to Denton. Penn State has 150 footcandles in their stadium too. We are moving up in the world.

[TheWestie]

I think I'm pretty qualified to answer this....

Apogee has suffered from the same problem that the Cowboys Stadium has. When the lights were new (1st year-ish), they were amazing. Much brighter than anywhere else I'd ever been, and I've shot football in a lot of places. But the lights have "burnt in" with use and have dimmed a bit. Cowboys Stadium has done the exact same thing. The debut season in Apogee I shot at ~ 1/1000 @ f4 @ 1,600 ISO. This past season I had to drop it down to about 1/500 or 1/640. That's just one stop, but that does make a difference. For me that's the difference between the little bits of turf fill being blurry or being frozen when a guy drags his cleat across the field. But it is still brighter than almost every other football stadium I've ever been to. Just not by as much.

In the grand scheme of things, that means Apogee isn't as special in that regard as it was when it opened. BUT, it's still brighter than The Rob was, brighter than Darrell K. Royal Memorial, brighter than Kyle Field, brighter than Death Valley in Baton Rouge, brighter than Pizza Hut Park, brighter than the Alamodome (seriously, that place is as dark as Massey Stadium up in Pilot Point. Ugly. Go Bearkats), and brighter than Rice Stadium.

What Apogee does better than any stadium I've ever been to though is how even and consistent the light is. The SOW at the 50 is as bright as the back of the end zone, as the hash mark on the 25, as the 10 yard line on the other end of the field and so on. THAT is what is really important for the TV folks. The lighting is the same all over the field and point onto the field from the end zone. And more importantly, IT IS THE SAME COLOR. Fouts, bless it's heart, had horrific patches of light and they were all different colors. If a player was in the dead center between the hash marks, they had shadows on both sides of them. But once them went to once side of the field or the other, they would only have a shadow from the lights closest to them, THAT'S how weak the lights at Fouts are. And the end zones had no light in them. Remember, the towers are at the 25 yard line, pointing out the end zone. Besides not having enough lights and being too far from the field, as they lights aged over the years, the bulbs aged and the gas inside them changed. Bulbs burnt out whenever they did and were replaced as they burnt out, meaning there was a wide range of age for the light bulbs. This caused lots of different colors or light. At Fouts (and at Bronco Stadium in Denton, and for that matter at most high school football/baseball fields more than 10 years old) you can get orange, green, purple, brown and blue lights in one picture. Combine that with the way that those lights work. The flood light bulbs pulse their light. It's quick enough that our eyes don't pick it up, but a camera shutter speed fast enough to freeze a player is faster than the cycle. Watch a super slow-mo replay sometime and you'll see it. The lights quickly flicker, but at normal speed it's so fast you can't see it. This video shows it. http://youtu.be/obopq9Golnk

Point is, Apogee isn't some kind of paradigm shift as far as sports stadium lighting goes, but it is one of the best I've ever seen. It's brighter (nowadays just a bit, but still brighter) than almost everywhere else, but it's got more even and consistent light than anywhere else and it's almost a photographer's dream. Except for the beige brick backgrounds. Ugh.

All that said, I do have a gripe. That lights at night at Apogee aren't kind to the uniforms. It makes them kind of a pastel mint green, instead of the almost Kelly green they are in daylight. The cameras I have at work make it seem even worse, but I've seen it in the AP photos from Kansas State, LSU and Alabama.

[Christopher Walker]

I think I'm pretty qualified to answer this....

Apogee has suffered from the same problem that the Cowboys Stadium has. When the lights were new (1st year-ish), they were amazing. Much brighter than anywhere else I'd ever been, and I've shot football in a lot of places. But the lights have "burnt in" with use and have dimmed a bit. Cowboys Stadium has done the exact same thing. The debut season in Apogee I shot at ~ 1/1000 @ f4 @ 1,600 ISO. This past season I had to drop it down to about 1/500 or 1/640. That's just one stop, but that does make a difference. For me that's the difference between the little bits of turf fill being blurry or being frozen when a guy drags his cleat across the field. But it is still brighter than almost every other football stadium I've ever been to. Just not by as much.

In the grand scheme of things, that means Apogee isn't as special in that regard as it was when it opened. BUT, it's still brighter than The Rob was, brighter than Darrell K. Royal Memorial, brighter than Kyle Field, brighter than Death Valley in Baton Rouge, brighter than Pizza Hut Park, brighter than the Alamodome (seriously, that place is as dark as Massey Stadium up in Pilot Point. Ugly. Go Bearkats), and brighter than Rice Stadium.

What Apogee does better than any stadium I've ever been to though is how even and consistent the light is. The SOW at the 50 is as bright as the back of the end zone, as the hash mark on the 25, as the 10 yard line on the other end of the field and so on. THAT is what is really important for the TV folks. The lighting is the same all over the field and point onto the field from the end zone. And more importantly, IT IS THE SAME COLOR. Fouts, bless it's heart, had horrific patches of light and they were all different colors. If a player was in the dead center between the hash marks, they had shadows on both sides of them. But once them went to once side of the field or the other, they would only have a shadow from the lights closest to them, THAT'S how weak the lights at Fouts are. And the end zones had no light in them. Remember, the towers are at the 25 yard line, pointing out the end zone. Besides not having enough lights and being too far from the field, as they lights aged over the years, the bulbs aged and the gas inside them changed. Bulbs burnt out whenever they did and were replaced as they burnt out, meaning there was a wide range of age for the light bulbs. This caused lots of different colors or light. At Fouts (and at Bronco Stadium in Denton, and for that matter at most high school football/baseball fields more than 10 years old) you can get orange, green, purple, brown and blue lights in one picture. Combine that with the way that those lights work. The flood light bulbs pulse their light. It's quick enough that our eyes don't pick it up, but a camera shutter speed fast enough to freeze a player is faster than the cycle. Watch a super slow-mo replay sometime and you'll see it. The lights quickly flicker, but at normal speed it's so fast you can't see it. This video shows it. http://youtu.be/obopq9Golnk

Point is, Apogee isn't some kind of paradigm shift as far as sports stadium lighting goes, but it is one of the best I've ever seen. It's brighter (nowadays just a bit, but still brighter) than almost everywhere else, but it's got more even and consistent light than anywhere else and it's almost a photographer's dream. Except for the beige brick backgrounds. Ugh.

All that said, I do have a gripe. That lights at night at Apogee aren't kind to the uniforms. It makes them kind of a pastel mint green, instead of the almost Kelly green they are in daylight. The cameras I have at work make it seem even worse, but I've seen it in the AP photos from Kansas State, LSU and Alabama.

Boom.

[FirefightnRick]

All that said, I do have a gripe. That lights at night at Apogee aren't kind to the uniforms. It makes them kind of a pastel mint green, instead of the almost Kelly green they are in daylight. The cameras I have at work make it seem even worse, but I've seen it in the AP photos from Kansas State, LSU and Alabama.

It's good to see a pro notice this as well.

To me, they don't look Kelly Green even in the day light because...they aren't Kelly Green IMO. They look more like Pastel Mint as you describe, or as I have referred to them before... Freeway-Sign Green.

I had a hell of a time trying to duplicate Freeway-Sign Green for the helmet, and I still don't think I got it correct?

Rick

[UNT Mean Green]

Maybe they are LEED environmentally friendly lights?

...only kidding. The lighting at Apogee seems to be on par with the biggest, baddest stadiums in the country. In fact, everything about Apogee is outstanding! One of the best kept secrets in the NCAA

[Harry]

I think I'm pretty qualified to answer this....

Apogee has suffered from the same problem that the Cowboys Stadium has. When the lights were new (1st year-ish), they were amazing. Much brighter than anywhere else I'd ever been, and I've shot football in a lot of places. But the lights have "burnt in" with use and have dimmed a bit. Cowboys Stadium has done the exact same thing. The debut season in Apogee I shot at ~ 1/1000 @ f4 @ 1,600 ISO. This past season I had to drop it down to about 1/500 or 1/640. That's just one stop, but that does make a difference. For me that's the difference between the little bits of turf fill being blurry or being frozen when a guy drags his cleat across the field. But it is still brighter than almost every other football stadium I've ever been to. Just not by as much.

In the grand scheme of things, that means Apogee isn't as special in that regard as it was when it opened. BUT, it's still brighter than The Rob was, brighter than Darrell K. Royal Memorial, brighter than Kyle Field, brighter than Death Valley in Baton Rouge, brighter than Pizza Hut Park, brighter than the Alamodome (seriously, that place is as dark as Massey Stadium up in Pilot Point. Ugly. Go Bearkats), and brighter than Rice Stadium.

What Apogee does better than any stadium I've ever been to though is how even and consistent the light is. The SOW at the 50 is as bright as the back of the end zone, as the hash mark on the 25, as the 10 yard line on the other end of the field and so on. THAT is what is really important for the TV folks. The lighting is the same all over the field and point onto the field from the end zone. And more importantly, IT IS THE SAME COLOR. Fouts, bless it's heart, had horrific patches of light and they were all different colors. If a player was in the dead center between the hash marks, they had shadows on both sides of them. But once them went to once side of the field or the other, they would only have a shadow from the lights closest to them, THAT'S how weak the lights at Fouts are. And the end zones had no light in them. Remember, the towers are at the 25 yard line, pointing out the end zone. Besides not having enough lights and being too far from the field, as they lights aged over the years, the bulbs aged and the gas inside them changed. Bulbs burnt out whenever they did and were replaced as they burnt out, meaning there was a wide range of age for the light bulbs. This caused lots of different colors or light. At Fouts (and at Bronco Stadium in Denton, and for that matter at most high school football/baseball fields more than 10 years old) you can get orange, green, purple, brown and blue lights in one picture. Combine that with the way that those lights work. The flood light bulbs pulse their light. It's quick enough that our eyes don't pick it up, but a camera shutter speed fast enough to freeze a player is faster than the cycle. Watch a super slow-mo replay sometime and you'll see it. The lights quickly flicker, but at normal speed it's so fast you can't see it. This video shows it. http://youtu.be/obopq9Golnk

Point is, Apogee isn't some kind of paradigm shift as far as sports stadium lighting goes, but it is one of the best I've ever seen. It's brighter (nowadays just a bit, but still brighter) than almost everywhere else, but it's got more even and consistent light than anywhere else and it's almost a photographer's dream. Except for the beige brick backgrounds. Ugh.

All that said, I do have a gripe. That lights at night at Apogee aren't kind to the uniforms. It makes them kind of a pastel mint green, instead of the almost Kelly green they are in daylight. The cameras I have at work make it seem even worse, but I've seen it in the AP photos from Kansas State, LSU and Alabama.

Great stuff...thanks for the info!

[oldguystudent]

This thread has definitely been enlightening.