Less Mistakes Argument...

BIG DAWG · July 4, 2013

I have seen several offer the argument for Thompson over Berglund due to the fact that Thompson will make less mistakes because he has more experience at this level.

Yes, I can't argue the fact he has more experience, but can one really say his ability to not make mistakes wins him the job???

I have never understood this argument. It's almost as shaky as the "great leader" argument, or the "poor receiver" argument.

I have seen countless overthrows (mistake), under throws (mistake), and when he was allowed to throw the ball...he threw picks (mistake)! In matter of fact, as many as he did TDs.

While I'm at it...so they are all on one post...lets dispel the other two Thompson apologist excuses...a team must have great leaders to be successful, but if the QB is a great leader but can't deliver the ball ROUTINELY he isn't going to win games. I don't care if he is getting paid to deliver leadership seminars, the QB has to be able to throw the damn football!!!

As far as having "poor receivers" I'm calling BS on this too. One can't argue that we had the greatest receiving weapons in the land, but they got open enough to get the job done. I can't remember how many times they had to leave their feet to catch the ball, or simply had the ball delivered in the dirt or the bleachers.

I'm not bagging on Thompson as a person, team leader, or anything of that nature, but I am tired of people trying to make me feel comfortable about him playing QB for my team. On a strictly performance based evaluation, all other crap aside, he is not a good, or even average college QB.

We don't know exactly what we have with Berglund, but I know what we have in Thompson, and it isn't good. I will go out on a limb and say Berglund can't be worse.

Edited July 4, 2013 by BIG DAWG

UNT 90 Grad · July 4, 2013

I think people you are speaking of are in reality predicting the number of mistakes BB will make due to his lack of experience will cost him the starting job. Is that worded better?

BIG DAWG · July 4, 2013

I think people you are speaking of are in reality predicting the number of mistakes BB will make due to his lack of experience will cost him the starting job. Is that worded better?

But would he make anymore than Thompson does now? That's my point. It's not like Thompson is an all-conference senior. Hell, I would argue he hardly plays like you would expect given his experience.

What additional mistakes do people expect Berglund to make that Thompson doesn't already make?

Edited July 4, 2013 by BIG DAWG

drex · July 4, 2013

Leadership is borne of accomplishment. If you do not deliver, you will never really be the leader...even if you at the 'leader' position of quarterback.

PlummMeanGreen · July 4, 2013

If North Texas had had a Terry Bradshaw type of talent (not saying we do now) who (in a stroke of major luck and a most rare smile from Lady Luck) would have transferred to UNT would we have analyzed, de-analyzed, and di-sected him completely all but pronouncing him unfit to play for us before he even took one varsity snap of the ball?

I can't wait till August 31'st so we can start getting some answers to all our questions and themes of much speculation over here.

GMG!

Edited July 4, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

BillySee58 · July 4, 2013

Leadership is borne of accomplishment. If you do not deliver, you will never really be the leader...even if you at the 'leader' position of quarterback.

Absolutely. Leadership by example is crucial in sports, especially at a position like QB.

UNT90 · July 5, 2013

Young players try to do too much. They don't know when to throw the ball away.

Hence the concern about mistakes.

Edited July 5, 2013 by UNT90

emmitt01 · July 5, 2013

I think people you are speaking of are in reality predicting the number of mistakes BB will make due to his lack of experience will cost him the starting job. Is that worded better?

And this brings us to the most tired, weakest, apologist excuse, "Thompson plays the best in practice".

Anyone care to tell me what our practice record was last year? How about OU's? Where do I find that on ESPN.com? Or Dave Campbell's? That's right, they don't exist!

There's a name for a QB who produces great in practice...scout team QB.

I will GLADLY take the risk that BB makes mistakes if it means we also have the chance of him bringing a dimension to the position that we haven't seen. Anyone remember Riley Dodge? We still chronicle every what the kid has for dinner each Thursday because he was such a great "competitor". Nevermind that he made multiple mistakes each game, he was able to run, escape the rush and overall give us a fighting chance. I'll take that again, this time in a D1 sized body.

buff64 · July 5, 2013

Young players try to do too much. They don't know when to throw the ball away.
Hence the concern about mistakes.

Yeah,just look at Johnny Manzel.

BillySee58 · July 5, 2013

Young players try to do too much. They don't know when to throw the ball away.
Hence the concern about mistakes.

I'm fine with a few overzealous mistakes early on. As long as Berglund is making plays and making our offense more dynamic, as well as showing improvement over the course of the year.

Berglund has 3 years left. When DT was named the opening starter in 2011, he had 3 years of eligibility left. In that time he hasn't progressed enough and, as someone has said, it's hard to tell at times that he's the experienced guy with 20+ starts under his belt.

I know we haven't seen much, but Berglund will make our offense more dynamic and hard to stop immediately. I'm fine with a few rookie mistakes but after having the 105th scoring offense in the country I think we need more playmaking ability.

Harry · July 5, 2013

I'm fine with a few overzealous mistakes early on. As long as Berglund is making plays and making our offense more dynamic, as well as showing improvement over the course of the year.
Berglund has 3 years left. When DT was named the opening starter in 2011, he had 3 years of eligibility left. In that time he hasn't progressed enough and, as someone has said, it's hard to tell at times that he's the experienced guy with 20+ starts under his belt.
I know we haven't seen much, but Berglund will make our offense more dynamic and hard to stop immediately. I'm fine with a few rookie mistakes but after having the 105th scoring offense in the country I think we need more playmaking ability.

Here's the deal -- we could be 4-8 or 6-6... would you be willing to sacrifice two games and a possible bowl but have a more seasoned BB for 2014? Or would you rather go 6-6 with DT at the helm. I'm not saying that is EXACTLY how it will come down mind you but I think it illustrates how the coaching staff looks at these things...

BillySee58 · July 5, 2013

Here's the deal -- we could be 4-8 or 6-6... would you be willing to sacrifice two games and a possible bowl but have a more seasoned BB for 2014? Or would you rather go 6-6 with DT at the helm. I'm not saying that is EXACTLY how it will come down mind you but I think it illustrates how the coaching staff looks at these things...

You better believe I'd rather go 6-6 with DT.

But personally I think Berglund's playmaking ability would make us better immediately, not just down the road. He might make a few more mental mistakes than DT would, but I think he would also make a few less mistakes than DT because of his athletic ability and arm strength. Sometimes DT made the right throws last year, but the throw would not be on target or it would get there too slow.

I would agree with you that this is how the coaching staff has treated things the last two seasons that DT has been the starter. However, I think with Berglund in the fold now things might be a little different. This offense was changed for Berglund and I believe the coaches will give him a chance.

We were 105th in the nation in scoring last year. We need to be able to make more plays, particularly in the red zone if we hope to win.

Harry · July 5, 2013

There's two pieces to this -- a. you have to know the plays, reads and Chico's system which takes time the speed of the game...no not the spring game speed but the speed of a corner blitz coming 75 miles and hour at you... heck even Mecklingburg (sp?) at LSU sputtered against us in the passing game at times last year as he was adjusting to the speed of the game despite being one of the top QB's in the country behind a superior line... Despite Berglund's talent he hasn't played enough games and DT has...so he will have to learn on the job this year.

I really hope that we could open a comfortable lead against Idaho to let all three QB's get some snaps but will take a 1 point win before it..

H-towngreen · July 5, 2013

Here's the deal -- we could be 4-8 or 6-6... would you be willing to sacrifice two games and a possible bowl but have a more seasoned BB for 2014? Or would you rather go 6-6 with DT at the helm. I'm not saying that is EXACTLY how it will come down mind you but I think it illustrates how the coaching staff looks at these things...

If we're playing what ifs....would you rather:

Go 6-6 with DT. Running the ball all game long bc coaches can't trust DT. We beat the teams were supposed to but barely. Riding the defense and running game while DT goes 16-27 with 1 TD and 1 int. we lose the games were supposed to lose with DT going 12-29 with 1 TD 2 int

Or

Go 6-6 with Berglund. Opening up the playbook running a more explosive style offense. BB makes mistakes along the way but also makes and creates plays. Opens up the passing game. And is getting playing time under his belt for the next 2 years.

Which 6-6 would you take?

emmitt01 · July 5, 2013

If we're playing what ifs....would you rather:
Go 6-6 with DT. Running the ball all game long bc coaches can't trust DT. We beat the teams were supposed to but barely. Riding the defense and running game while DT goes 16-27 with 1 TD and 1 int. we lose the games were supposed to lose with DT going 12-29 with 1 TD 2 int
Or
Go 6-6 with Berglund. Opening up the playbook running a more explosive style offense. BB makes mistakes along the way but also makes and creates plays. Opens up the passing game. And is getting playing time under his belt for the next 2 years.
Which 6-6 would you take?

Or, since we're in the land of make believe, would you rather have 5-7 with DT because (just like last season) he throws as many picks as TD's or 7-5 with BB because he made multiple rookie mistakes but also allowed us to out score several teams who had to play honest at the line of scrimmage?

BillySee58 · July 5, 2013

Or, since we're in the land of make believe, would you rather have 5-7 with DT because (just like last season) he throws as many picks as TD's or 7-5 with BB because he made multiple rookie mistakes but also allowed us to out score several teams who had to play honest at the line of scrimmage?

Bullseye

GOMG2013 · July 5, 2013

From what I have seen and heard, DT has had his chance, and hasnt shown much. Im sorry, a decent qb will show something in 2 years. What you is what you get. He had a nice line and running game to keep defenses honest, and still played below average.

BB gives more with his running ability. What worries me I have been hearing about mistakes. This offense is not all that high tech. Its still a run first offense. It should not be that hard to grasp unless a lot of new things are added.

At minimum, BB should be splitting time and it should be a 2 headed qb system. What worries me is Idaho is going to be a win. If DTstarts and plays most if the game, he will start the following game at Ohio. Its already a tough game on the road, but what happens if BB first shot at playing is in mop up duty in an Ohio loss? Then the next game is a winnable one, at home against Ball State. BB would need to have some experience by then. Georgia is going to be a loss, but we better have the qb spot solidified by the time we play a winnable game at Tulane.

GL2Greatness · July 5, 2013

how about dealing in reality....the reality that at this point 3 D1-A head coaches (Turner Gill, Fat Charlie, and DMac) have seen bb in practice and seen that he is not going to get the start until he does more to prove he is worthy of that.......3 D1-A offensive coordinators have seen the same....and one community college head coach and one community college OC have seen the same even after bb played in the spring game

everyone here is basing the imaginary talent of bb on high school press clippings and on recruiting hype and the reality is the reason there is little else to go on falls squarely on the shoulders of bb because when he was ask to step up or was given the opportunity to step up and prove he belonged on the field of play he packed his bags and ran off to some place else to start over again

here is a clear timeline of his time at KU

http://www2.kusports.com/brockberglund/timeline/

he arrives on campus in time for spring drills, suddenly on March 3rd he has to run back home to mommie......he says he will be back at the end of April or first of June.....then he is suddenly back on April 5th and he has graciously volunteered to hold the clip board on the sidelines instead of actually working and practicing

on April 9th he is back in CO and gets in the fight......in the mile high sports "exclusive with bb" he says he is back home to visit friends and family and there is no mention of the fact that he had already left the team in March for "personal reasons" and yet he is back a bit later to hold the clip board in spring drills and then he is back in CO right in the middle of when he said he was back in Kansas to "observe"

he shows back up June 4th......he is there for photo day June 15th...then suddenly to his surprise according to the bb exclusive story in mile high sports he is charged in June 24th

again this article says the same thing I have been saying

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2011/jul/22/qb-brock-berglund-coach-turner-gill-both-pickle/

bb did not commit the assault until April 9th which was nearly 2 weeks after KU spring practice had started and bb had walked away from the team weeks before that and then still came back April 5th to watch practice and hold the clip board and then 4 days later went home and got in a fight.....and he was still not charged from that until June 24th and he showed back up in June for team photos and for the start of summer voluntary drills, but went back home again......and it was not until Turner Gill told him that he was not going to be a starter in August that he decided it would be "best to red shirt and concentrate on legal issues"

so again bb had the opportunity to participate in spring drills, no matter what his story was for going home in the first of March he still was able to come back and hold the clip board on April 5th and then had time to fly back home for a "visit for friends and family" in the middle of his clip board holding duties and before he had said he would be able to return to the team at the end of April when he first left the team in March and in the "exclusive" bb story in mile high sports he completely ignores the fact that he left the team in early March and says that he was back home April 9th for a visit to friends and family......right in the middle of KU spring practice where he was the #1 clip board holder

then bb states that Fat Charlie told him he would not start at all......but according to 5-10/6' Michael Cummings from Killeen, Texas Fat Charlie told him that he would get every opportunity to earn playing time before he was ask to possibly switch positions to receiver....and we know now that Fat Charlie was indeed a man of his word because Michael Cummings did in fact end up starting several games in 2012 for KU when Dane Crist faltered

but of course bb was not there to COMPETE for that playing time because he was busy sitting out the season at north Texas because he had transferred instead of actually trying to compete for playing time at KU.......and he had also FAILED to actually win playing time at the community college in Arizona because a transfer QB from Hawaii beat him out and then "something came up" and he left community college

so while all the message board coaches are still listening to the press clippings for bb from high school and his recruiting stats and his personal comparison to Payton Manning, Michael Vick and Tim Tebow and ignoring the fact that 3 D1-A head coaches, 3 D1-A offensive coordinators and a CC head coach ad a CC OC have failed to see the bb hype or to buy into it....and the reason they have failed to see that hype or buy into it is because every time bb is ask to even get on the PRACTICE field or to get into a spring game to prove the hype in practice or in a spring game "something comes up" and bb cuts and runs

he cut and ran from KU in early March, he was only willing to be the #1 clip board holder for KU all spring, he acted stupid and got in a fight in the middle of being the #1 clip board holder.....even though he had still not been charged yet he refused to show up for voluntary summer workouts and he was only able to show up for team photo day......he refused to be around the team for the 2011 season so he could drag out his legal stupidity and then in the spring of 2012 he refused yet again to compete for playing time at KU and instead left the team and spent the spring doing his global intergalactic search for just the right fit for brock and that was at a community college in AZ......where he dd not win the starting job after the spring game and then "something came up" and he was gone from there so he did not get to see the field of play for yet a second season in a row.......and now at north Texas he has not shown enough to DMac or to Chico to win the starting job because he is not picking up the play book and because he has "an injury" to his hammy

so again perhaps many members of the GMG community are impressed with two year old high school press clippings and the ability of bb to hold the clip board when he bothers to show up to practice, but 4 head coaches and 4 OCs are not that impressed with those "skills" and I am sure they are even less than impressed with his ability to cut and run when even remotely challenged to step up and win some playing time because that is all he has ever really show great skill at doing because he does not even bother to show up to most practices and when he does show up it is to hold the clip board or he is injured or there is some other reason he can't go full strength.....and even the single time he did go full strength at community college he did not win the starting job even after the spring game and he cut and ran from there

no D1-A coach or OC is going to just hand someone like that a starting job.....the players at KU saw him as a cancer, the coach at the CC in Arizona did not seem particularly concerned that he was leaving and DMac and Chico have not exactly been singing his praises......which is why he is not even #2 he is #3 and did next to nothing in the spring game for north Texas

Edited July 5, 2013 by GL2Greatness

emmitt01 · July 5, 2013

how about dealing in reality....the reality that at this point 3 D1-A head coaches (Turner Gill, Fat Charlie, and DMac) have seen bb in practice and seen that he is not going to get the start until he does more to prove he is worthy of that.......3 D1-A offensive coordinators have seen the same....and one community college head coach and one community college OC have seen the same even after bb played in the spring game

everyone here is basing the imaginary talent of bb on high school press clippings and on recruiting hype and the reality is the reason there is little else to go on falls squarely on the shoulders of bb because when he was ask to step up or was given the opportunity to step up and prove he belonged on the field of play he packed his bags and ran off to some place else to start over again

here is a clear timeline of his time at KU

http://www2.kusports.com/brockberglund/timeline/

he arrives on campus in time for spring drills, suddenly on March 3rd he has to run back home to mommie......he says he will be back at the end of April or first of June.....then he is suddenly back on April 5th and he has graciously volunteered to hold the clip board on the sidelines instead of actually working and practicing

on April 9th he is back in CO and gets in the fight......in the mile high sports "exclusive with bb" he says he is back home to visit friends and family and there is no mention of the fact that he had already left the team in March for "personal reasons" and yet he is back a bit later to hold the clip board in spring drills and then he is back in CO right in the middle of when he said he was back in Kansas to "observe"

he shows back up June 4th......he is there for photo day June 15th...then suddenly to his surprise according to the bb exclusive story in mile high sports he is charged in June 24th

again this article says the same thing I have been saying

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2011/jul/22/qb-brock-berglund-coach-turner-gill-both-pickle/

bb did not commit the assault until April 9th which was nearly 2 weeks after KU spring practice had started and bb had walked away from the team weeks before that and then still came back April 5th to watch practice and hold the clip board and then 4 days later went home and got in a fight.....and he was still not charged from that until June 24th and he showed back up in June for team photos and for the start of summer voluntary drills, but went back home again......and it was not until Turner Gill told him that he was not going to be a starter in August that he decided it would be "best to red shirt and concentrate on legal issues"

so again bb had the opportunity to participate in spring drills, no matter what his story was for going home in the first of March he still was able to come back and hold the clip board on April 5th and then had time to fly back home for a "visit for friends and family" in the middle of his clip board holding duties and before he had said he would be able to return to the team at the end of April when he first left the team in March and in the "exclusive" bb story in mile high sports he completely ignores the fact that he left the team in early March and says that he was back home April 9th for a visit to friends and family......right in the middle of KU spring practice where he was the #1 clip board holder

then bb states that Fat Charlie told him he would not start at all......but according to 5-10/6' Michael Cummings from Killeen, Texas Fat Charlie told him that he would get every opportunity to earn playing time before he was ask to possibly switch positions to receiver....and we know now that Fat Charlie was indeed a man of his word because Michael Cummings did in fact end up starting several games in 2012 for KU when Dane Crist faltered

but of course bb was not there to COMPETE for that playing time because he was busy sitting out the season at north Texas because he had transferred instead of actually trying to compete for playing time at KU.......and he had also FAILED to actually win playing time at the community college in Arizona because a transfer QB from Hawaii beat him out and then "something came up" and he left community college

so while all the message board coaches are still listening to the press clippings for bb from high school and his recruiting stats and his personal comparison to Payton Manning, Michael Vick and Tim Tebow and ignoring the fact that 3 D1-A head coaches, 3 D1-A offensive coordinators and a CC head coach ad a CC OC have failed to see the bb hype or to buy into it....and the reason they have failed to see that hype or buy into it is because every time bb is ask to even get on the PRACTICE field or to get into a spring game to prove the hype in practice or in a spring game "something comes up" and bb cuts and runs

he cut and ran from KU in early March, he was only willing to be the #1 clip board holder for KU all spring, he acted stupid and got in a fight in the middle of being the #1 clip board holder.....even though he had still not been charged yet he refused to show up for voluntary summer workouts and he was only able to show up for team photo day......he refused to be around the team for the 2011 season so he could drag out his legal stupidity and then in the spring of 2012 he refused yet again to compete for playing time at KU and instead left the team and spent the spring doing his global intergalactic search for just the right fit for brock and that was at a community college in AZ......where he dd not win the starting job after the spring game and then "something came up" and he was gone from there so he did not get to see the field of play for yet a second season in a row.......and now at north Texas he has not shown enough to DMac or to Chico to win the starting job because he is not picking up the play book and because he has "an injury" to his hammy

so again perhaps many members of the GMG community are impressed with two year old high school press clippings and the ability of bb to hold the clip board when he bothers to show up to practice, but 4 head coaches and 4 OCs are not that impressed with those "skills" and I am sure they are even less than impressed with his ability to cut and run when even remotely challenged to step up and win some playing time because that is all he has ever really show great skill at doing because he does not even bother to show up to most practices and when he does show up it is to hold the clip board or he is injured or there is some other reason he can't go full strength.....and even the single time he did go full strength at community college he did not win the starting job even after the spring game and he cut and ran from there

no D1-A coach or OC is going to just hand someone like that a starting job.....the players at KU saw him as a cancer, the coach at the CC in Arizona did not seem particularly concerned that he was leaving and DMac and Chico have not exactly been singing his praises......which is why he is not even #2 he is #3 and did next to nothing in the spring game for north Texas

Did you voice Charlie Brown's teacher in the cartoons? Because, honestly, that's all I hear when I read your posts.

H-towngreen · July 5, 2013

Or, since we're in the land of make believe, would you rather have 5-7 with DT because (just like last season) he throws as many picks as TD's or 7-5 with BB because he made multiple rookie mistakes but also allowed us to out score several teams who had to play honest at the line of scrimmage?

I think that is more likely but wants to make them both 6-6. In that case it's still clear that BB would be the better play

BillySee58 · July 5, 2013

From what I have seen and heard, DT has had his chance, and hasnt shown much. Im sorry, a decent qb will show something in 2 years. What you is what you get. He had a nice line and running game to keep defenses honest, and still played below average.
BB gives more with his running ability. What worries me I have been hearing about mistakes. This offense is not all that high tech. Its still a run first offense. It should not be that hard to grasp unless a lot of new things are added.
At minimum, BB should be splitting time and it should be a 2 headed qb system. What worries me is Idaho is going to be a win. If DTstarts and plays most if the game, he will start the following game at Ohio. Its already a tough game on the road, but what happens if BB first shot at playing is in mop up duty in an Ohio loss? Then the next game is a winnable one, at home against Ball State. BB would need to have some experience by then. Georgia is going to be a loss, but we better have the qb spot solidified by the time we play a winnable game at Tulane.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see both qbs in the first half of the Idaho game, especially if Berglund does well in fall camp.

As for the concern that Idaho makes DT look good while playing against a bad team, I urge you to see what happened last year against Texas Southern.

greenminer · July 5, 2013

There's two pieces to this -- a. you have to know the plays, reads and Chico's system which takes time the speed of the game...

I'll give you speed of game, but Brock's been here over a year. If he doesn't have at least a mental grasp of Chico's system, well...

...well, I've never played a down of organized football passed 3rd grade Y league. Maybe I underestimate how long it takes to learn a college system with a new QB. Then again, there's always a Manzel out there every season.

We'll never know unless we try. Hopefully we can build a cushy lead in our first game and give BB his shot.

Got5onIt · July 6, 2013

DT was only sacked 5 times last year. That's an absolute ridiculous stat on a team that doesn't run the option as its base offense.

I'll take BB if he's 100% healthy. We can't expect the light switch to flip in a better conference if the offense remains unchanged.

UNT90 · July 6, 2013

Did you voice Charlie Brown's teacher in the cartoons? Because, honestly, that's all I hear when I read your posts.

You actually read them?

GrandGreen · July 6, 2013

How about, who ever shows the most between now and opening day is the QB? I see a lot of indictments against Thompson because of his play but there is no proof at this point, that he is not the best QB option. There are few bad teams that a lot of the fans do not blame the QB no matter what the rest of the team does. By the way, anyone that doesn't think that group of receivers that NT had to go with last year wasn't a factor, then apparently attended different games than me.

Thompson has been a below average QB for his career at NT, but he as also played on a below average team. No QB in McCarney's system is gong to win many games because he has a super day, particularly with the wrs NT has had the last two years. McCarney whether it is because of the poor passing game players he has, or it is his nature, just hasn't been willing to open up the offense unless the team is basically out of the game.

NT has three QB candidates vying for the job and I would not be surprised at any of them starting. Thompson has experience and it is valuable versus McNulty and Berglund who are both better athletes and can add more QB runs to the offense. The backup QBs are almost always the fan favorites on bad teams, but they are going to have to show more than Thompson to win the job. McCarney's grace period should be over and he is expected to win and he is not going to take any long term approach if it means less opportunities for wins.