I'm sorry Tony

FirefightnRick · June 28, 2013

Chris Davis had one winning season in four seasons in NT. If we use the same sort standard that Michell should have carried the team to better records, the same could be said of Davis.

For the record, yes Davis was a helluva player. He's had a great career overseas too, hasn't he? I remember reading he was the MVP of one of those European leagues a few years back. He's probably done quite well for himself monetarily.

Adam McCoy has too. Now, that is an interesting case, isn't it? McCoy barely even played until like the last ten games of his career here. Do people say now that he sucked because he didn't give the effort he should have...or that he's making us proud now?

Chris Davis played on 3 lousy teams and NEVER coasted because he had pride and a whole lot of heart and appreciated his opportunity to get a free education at North Texas.

It saddened me to see his career end here, but not to the point I cried like a woman and claim we would NEVER see another like him.

And BTW, just my opinion, but to me we finally did get another big hearted, pride-filled player like him in Chris White.

Rick

CMJ · June 28, 2013

Chris Davis played on 3 lousy teams and NEVER coasted because he had pride and a whole lot of heart and appreciated his opportunity to get a free education at North Texas.
It saddened me to see his career end here, but not to the point I cried like a woman and claim we would NEVER see another like him.
And BTW, just my opinion, but to me we finally did get another big hearted, pride-filled player like him in Chris White.
Rick

His senior season we were projected to be a ton better than we were - especially after the huge turnaround his Junior season (JJ's first). His Sr year the team went 7-21 and yes, there were a ton of injuries. Nonetheless, I think his scoring and rebound numbers were down that season. (I'd have to double check that)

Are you talking about Josh White?

CMJ · June 28, 2013

I just checked....Chris Davis's PPG dropped from 22.5 to 19.0 and his shooting percentage dropped by over 5 percent. On the other hand his rebounds did go up.

BTW - this is not a slam on Davis, who I believe is perhaps the best player in our history.

FirefightnRick · June 28, 2013

His senior season we were projected to be a ton better than we were - especially after the huge turnaround his Junior season (JJ's first). His Sr year the team went 7-21 and yes, there were a ton of injuries. Nonetheless, I think his scoring and rebound numbers were down that season. (I'd have to double check that)

Are you talking about Josh White?

Excuse me, yes, Josh White. Loved that guy's MOTOR.

Rick

CMJ · June 28, 2013

Excuse me, yes, Josh White. Loved that guy's MOTOR.
Rick

I loved everything about Josh other than his LSU fandom. Probably my favorite NT player ever.

filmerj · June 28, 2013

Speaking of motors, I've got a Skyactive motor... Good gas mileage.

UNT90 · June 28, 2013

Go ahead and bash the biggest recruit to ever come here. Where is that great Benford binder that was going to make Mitchell a top 5 pick?

This program is headed for a disaster not seen since Vic Trilli days, and all you idiots want to do is blame the most talented player that has come here in the last 3 decades.

This draft pretty much assures that UNT will never see a basketball recruit as highly touted as Mitchell for another 20 years. Thank you, Tony Benfprd, for taking one if the best things that has ever happened to UNT basketball and turning him into a program killer.

Please resign since we won't fire you.

UNT90 · June 28, 2013

The fact that so many in here don't get that it is the coach's responsibility to motivate the player is mind boggling.

MeanMag · June 28, 2013

Tony Mitchell didn't suck here. He only "sucked" last year and that effortless and shameful performance was still good enough to be in the North Texas record books. 2 years ago, he essentially carried the team for half a season when some didn't qualify. But, because he didn't pour in 20-30 points every game, some numb nuts are going to have a selective memory.

If I remember correctly: He set the all time shot blocks in a season for North Texas while only playing half a season. He's the all time leading shot blocker in UNT history and he was only here for 1.5 years. Wasn't it Tramiel or Odufuwa before him that held that record? They were only here for 2 years as well, correct? 3 of the top 5 shot blockers in this schools history were here during Johnny Jones' tenure before Mitchell, and Mitchell surpassed them in 1.5 years? He averaged a double-double while only a freshmen. 1 of 2 in the NCAA.

Forgive me for throwing up while my out of shape ass criticizes a 18-19 yr old for not getting a triple-triple his first year carrying books on our campus.

I'd say as far as disrupting and having impact on games, I've never seen someone like that. He turned away so many drives that went largely unnoticed in stat lines. UNT has never had a player like him ever in history and the records reflect that.

Edited June 28, 2013 by MeanMag

CMJ · June 28, 2013

Technically Odufuwa played 3 years for us.

UNTLifer · June 28, 2013

How far has it taken you?

There you go Officer. When all else fails, get personal. Well played.

UNTLifer · June 28, 2013

The fact that so many in here don't get that it is the coach's responsibility to motivate the player is mind boggling.

The fact that you don't get that Mitchell admitted to coasting and should share the blame is mind boggling. You can lead a horse to water.....

risinggreen · June 28, 2013

I realize that draft night was kind of a cathartic thing, but many of you guys are basically perpetuating your own negative image of North Texas. Yeah, TM may have coasted a bit, but it likely cost him a Hell of a lot more than it cost us since we weren't going to win anyway. It sux, but that's just what freaking happened when we lost JJ.

And as far as us never getting another player of his caliber is concerned, I call BS on that one. Getting a big guy with his skills will be difficult without big winning, but a big scoring guard/small forward type who ups his level of play once he gets here is not beyond the realm of possibility. Not saying that Benford would have any part in that development, but I think it COULD happen sooner rather than later.

I guess it's time to wish Tony the best in Motor City, and time to try and think of new ways to insult Benford. Nothing much else happening around here in the basketball world until November anyway. Unless...ah, never mind.

UNT90 · June 28, 2013

The fact that you don't get that Mitchell admitted to coasting and should share the blame is mind boggling. You can lead a horse to water.....

The only thing Benfird led Mitchell to was a poisoned pond.

Less than 10 wins next year.

In one year, this program has become a mess. And there is no accountability.

Edited June 28, 2013 by UNT90

irish01 · June 28, 2013

I have just finished reading all the posts regarding Mitchell and there seemed to be one reoccuring theme. Mitchell was really good but Coach Benford didn't bring out the best in him. I hope that Mitchell makes it big in Detroit but that would surprise me. If for some reason Mitchell is unsuccessful in the NBA I wonder if all the Benford haters on here will find a way to continue to bash their coach? These NBA front offices know what these player are all about and draft accordingly regardless of the success or failure of the teams that player comes from. You folks need to wish the best for both Mitchell and Benford which for UNT fans seems to me to be a win-win situation.

Edited June 28, 2013 by irish01

IslandEagle · June 28, 2013

TM only has to look in the mirror if he wants to know what happened.

Censored by Laurie · June 28, 2013

To me, Tony's admitting in pre-draft interviews to "coasting" is telling of his strong character. People talk about personal responsibility, and that's exactly what Tony took for his drop in production last season. He told scouts that he didn't average a double-double for a second consecutive season because in hindsight he didn't work as hard as he possibly could've...when he easily could've said his stats dipped in his sophomore season because he had a coach who couldn't design an offense that would help keep him from being double and triple teamed every trip down the floor...or because he had a coach who insisted upon playing him almost exclusively out of position at the 5 with the protection of a 6'5" power-forward to help him on the glass...or because he had a coach that, despite his insistence at the beginning of the season, never put this team in a position to be a transition basketball team, thus playing to Mitchell's strengths.

Tony isn't lazy. It's really easy to cherry-pick the times he was last up the floor...of course you do this without showing how hard he had just worked on the offensive end to try and establish post position and cope with the impending triple team...doing so right after being asked to be the only real post-defender and rim-protector. He was the focal point every single time up and down the floor. That can make a guy tired. You question his motor all the while forgetting that a motor needs gas.

Tony has his faults. He challenges far too many shots when the better play is to simply play for a rebound. He gets down on himself far too easily. He doesn't have a mean streak and can be too passive and unselfish. And...and I believe this is where a lot of the vitriol towards TM actually stems...he isn't a leader and isn't comfortable in the alpha role. He tried...he tried to be the face of the team and of the school, but it's simply not a facet of his personality.

Tony will carve himself out a nice NBA career...not as a star, but as a versatile 15-25 minute a night contributor...I don't like that he's in Detroit, but looking at their roster he should be able to contribute immediately.

Mean_Green09 · June 28, 2013

Got a lot of people in here who CLAIM to know basketball. Well at least they are acting like it. Tony Mitchell had top ten athletic ability. He was a freak of nature. He was a great rebounder and leaper. Someone who could finish with authority around the rim. Beyond that he didnt have much of an offensive skill set. He wasnt a guy who could take you off the dribble. Didnt really have much of a low post game other than jumping above everyone to get a shot off. He suffered from being the main offensive focus when he clearly wasnt capable of handling that. He thrived in year 1 because he had shooters to help relieve pressure. He was scoring a lot on fast breaks and put backs. Not in a true isolation fashion. Year 2 struggled without the help of shooters. New coach didnt use him the right way. Suffered a motivational letdown because of lack of wins. NBA organizations werent willing to roll the dice on a kid who didnt dominate all the time when he should have. If we as fans had questions about his motor then why would and NBA owner and coach want to pay that kid guaranted money? You wouldnt. In the end he could turn out to be a steal for the Pistons. If he puts his mind in the right place. Its not like he is going to go play on a winning team right away. You hope for UNT and TM that he can turn the light on.

All this ill-will for Benford is a waste of time discussing. He is not the reason that TM dropped out of the top 20. Stop your crying. The year is over it wasnt what it was supposed to be we all know that. Time to move on.

UNT90 · June 28, 2013

I actually agree with you. That is an essential duty of a coach. Otherwise, why have one? Just have the guys go out and play ball with no plays or guidance. With you 100% here.

What you ignore is that players still have responsibility for their own actions. Great players are great in tough circumstances. According to all sources involved in this draft (including the player himself), TM's motor and ability to bring it all night, every night despite circumstances of losing or poor coaching was the biggest question. All evaluations acknowledge the coaching change and the bad season (and some even indirectly said Benford F'ed up TMs year), but all still questioned his ability to self-motivate. Why question it if it isn't important? It obviously was important, as he went 37 instead of 20 something.

So to summarize, yes Benford SUCKS, but TM didn't give his all and it was noticed. And both factors cost him dearly.

So you don't think Tony was great through tough circumstances the year before? When the 2 and 3 best players on the team were suspended for the rest of the year about 7 ganes into Tony's career?

It was very clear that Tony was very frustrated last year with whatever that system was that Benford was trying to run, as was the fan base..

I choose not to blame a 20 year old kid who had persevered through a tough period of not being able to go to college, and then when he finally gets into school, makes the A B honor role and finally gets to play, CJ and Jordan get suspended. No problem, he bears down and almost leads us to the NCAAs. Why? Because he had a coach that made him want to be better.

Then, instead of brining in the one thing this team needs, and the one thing that our AD had said over and over would be a requirement for any future coach (experience), UNT shifts gears and hires an inexperienced coach so far in over his head even an experienced staff can't make a difference.

Tony watches as players are subbed in and out willy nilly and the continuity of the team breaks down. Benford pulls any player for the slightest physical or mental error to offer his special brand of guidance when they return to the bench.

Tony basically gives up. Does that matter to Benford? Does he bench Mitchell for an attitude adjustment? No. He keeps running him out there and Mitchell gets more and more frustrated. Does Benford DO anything about it? Oh, he holds Mitchell out for the first couple of minutes of a couple of games. That's it. The behavior is not punished so it continues.

If you want to say that is Mitchell's fault, well, I guess.

But It's kind of like blaming your 2 year old for crapping his pants.

Edited June 28, 2013 by UNT90

Censored by Laurie · June 28, 2013

Got a lot of people in here who CLAIM to know basketball. Well at least they are acting like it. Tony Mitchell had top ten athletic ability. He was a freak of nature. He was a great rebounder and leaper. Someone who could finish with authority around the rim. Beyond that he didnt have much of an offensive skill set. He wasnt a guy who could take you off the dribble. Didnt really have much of a low post game other than jumping above everyone to get a shot off. He suffered from being the main offensive focus when he clearly wasnt capable of handling that. He thrived in year 1 because he had shooters to help relieve pressure. He was scoring a lot on fast breaks and put backs. Not in a true isolation fashion. Year 2 struggled without the help of shooters. New coach didnt use him the right way. Suffered a motivational letdown because of lack of wins. NBA organizations werent willing to roll the dice on a kid who didnt dominate all the time when he should have. If we as fans had questions about his motor then why would and NBA owner and coach want to pay that kid guaranted money? You wouldnt. In the end he could turn out to be a steal for the Pistons. If he puts his mind in the right place. Its not like he is going to go play on a winning team right away. You hope for UNT and TM that he can turn the light on.

All this ill-will for Benford is a waste of time discussing. He is not the reason that TM dropped out of the top 20. Stop your crying. The year is over it wasnt what it was supposed to be we all know that. Time to move on.

Mitchell was always going to be a "high-upside, but needs refining" draft pick. He is being drafted for his defense and athleticism with the hope of developing his offensive game.

The CBA and the new financial landscape of the NBA played a big role in Mitchell falling to the second round...its a big reason you saw so many foreign players go in the late first round...they were players teams could stash in Europe or South America and not be tied to a guaranteed rookie contract. I never thought him a lottery pick, but if he left after his freshman year I still think he falls somewhere in the high teens, low 20s. The risk on Tony was worth the guaranteed deal after his freshman year...it simply wasn't after his sophomore year.

emmitt01 · June 28, 2013

There you go Officer. When all else fails, get personal. Well played.

We still haven't received your fan club dues for June. Please sent those ASAP or I can't let you have the t-shirt.

meangreener · June 28, 2013

I've gotta tell you, 90, your platform here is real shaky considering your usual "We shouldn't accept mediocrity and underperformance at UNT" considering Tony Mitchell's sophomore year was the cornerstone of mediocrity and underperformance. You keep throwing his blocked shots stat around, which was a main result of his freshman year. He was underperforming and coasting because he knew that mediocrity was acceptable after the UAH game. You can blame Benford all you want, all it shows is you think mediocrity is OK and that absolving yourself of personal responsibility of your actions is OK. Your platform here is completely ironic and hypocritical. Tony Mitchell is the poster child for mediocre play but that we should worship him despite his mediocre play Sophomore year...because mediocrity is acceptable at UNT.

Just accept the fact that he gave up. He quit. He knew nothing would happen to him, his stock would drop but he'd still go NBA. Clearly thought first round still, but, honestly, who cares? He knew nothing would happen because you can suck but because you're "highly touted" that's OK. Tony knew that we were too small time for it really to matter. We could lose out and him suck but he'd still be our savior because he was a 5-star recruit who came to UNT. We'll forever be indebted to him even though he quit because he gave us a shot. That's why he railroaded us every chance he got and "coasted." It's disgusting, frankly. He gave us the middle finger and y'all want more.

tl;dr He quit because he could. People would still worship him at UNT like 90 because he was so highly touted, he'd still get drafted. Backfired a bit.

Edited June 28, 2013 by meangreener

UNT90 · June 28, 2013

I've gotta tell you, 90, your platform here is real shaky considering your usual "We shouldn't accept mediocrity and underperformance at UNT" considering Tony Mitchell's sophomore year was the cornerstone of mediocrity and underperformance. You keep throwing his blocked shots stat around, which was a main result of his freshman year. He was underperforming and coasting because he knew that mediocrity was acceptable after the UAH game. You can blame Benford all you want, all it shows is you think mediocrity is OK and that absolving yourself of personal responsibility of your actions is OK. Your platform here is completely ironic and hypocritical. Tony Mitchell is the poster child for mediocre play but that we should worship him despite his mediocre play Sophomore year...because mediocrity is acceptable at UNT.
Just accept the fact that he gave up. He quit. He knew nothing would happen to him, his stock would drop but he'd still go NBA. Clearly thought first round still, but, honestly, who cares? He knew nothing would happen because you can suck but because you're "highly touted" that's OK. Tony knew that we were too small time for it really to matter. We could lose out and him suck but he'd still be our savior because he was a 5-star recruit who came to UNT. We'll forever be indebted to him even though he quit because he gave us a shot. That's why he railroaded us every chance he got and "coasted." It's disgusting, frankly. He gave us the middle finger and y'all want more.
tl;dr He quit because he could. People would still worship him at UNT like 90 because he was so highly touted, he'd still get drafted. Backfired a bit.

Keep riding that Benford bandwagon. It'll take you to 8 or 9 wins this year.

meangreener · June 28, 2013

Keep riding that Benford bandwagon. It'll take you to 8 or 9 wins this year.

Benford is horrendous. We'll be lucky to win 10 games. But that means that a 20 year old budding superstar should have no personal responsibility for his actions and that quitting is OK? Way to misdirect the point based off of assumptions.

UNT90 · June 28, 2013

Benford is horrendous. We'll be lucky to win 10 games. But that means that a 20 year old budding superstar should have no personal responsibility for his actions and that quitting is OK? Way to misdirect the point based off of assumptions.

So please point out the games that Mitchell missed due to suspension?

If he quit, why was he on the floor? Why wasn't he on the bench and told "you can play when you figure out you want to play"?

That never happened. If Mitchell dogged it as much as some of you say, why didn't it happen?