UNT loses 2 more recruit battles

MeanGreenTexan · June 27, 2013

I just think we should have much higher goals than a series with SMU, a small private university.
That small, private university definitely has much higher goals than playing UNT every year.

Sure! But I think it's a great thing that we have them on the schedule. I don't think we've achieved any goals by scheduling them long term. And I highly doubt RV believes he can rest on this series as "good scheduling".

UNT90 · June 27, 2013

But how long would it really take for AD/RV to straighten out our home OOC schedule?

A Big 5 Conference school here and one there; maybe even a MWC school, too, (Boise, San Diego St. Air Force, etc) and doesn't that mostly straighten it out? Any school can only have so many home OOC games as it is. I think more home and homes with Army and Navy would be pretty cool. I still think of that exciting Navy game at Fouts Field a few years ago with that pre-game fly-over.

While a school is in a losing cycle is a good time to do such scheduling, too.

BTW, I think I could identiify several CUSA and Sun Belt schools who would kill for a 12 game home and home with SMU. TSU-San Marcos for one will soon lose their key Texas-based game with UTSA (if they haven't already) and who doesn't think they would love to come to Gerald Ford Stadium 6 out of the next 12 years?

Heck, Baylor would probably even like more games with SMU, too.

I have not yet given up with our future OOC home schedule. Our AD knows what our fans want (since he's heard it enough
from many). I hope he never schedules any more Sun Belt Conference schools (ever) unless one becomes the first Top 25 ranked 'Belt school. When you get out of the sticks to a much nicer neighborhood, how many spend their time trying to get back to the sticks? (Sorry, the 'Belt served our purpose for awhile but being the only Texas-based SBC school really sucked).

CUSA is not to be confused with the (now defunct) Southwest Conference by any means, but for North Texas at this time of our history it may be the 2'nd best thing for us with all the Texas-based CUSA rivals we will have along with others not so far away, too..

I merely point to my new, updated signature below for future UNT recruits--even some who just committed to a Sun Belt school or 2 that North Texas just might change their minds when they see our CUSA destination cities and areas of the USA for away games, compared to most other Go5 conferences destinations.

GMG!

No , it's not an easy fix.

We will have another 5 game home slate in 2015 with 2 body bag games (Tennessee and Iowa). Unless we buy a home game next year, look for a 5 game home slate in 2014.

There is no flexibility to schedule any home and homes because we have loaded up with body bag games, including a 2 game series with Iowa with no return game. The only way we could schedule a home game in 2014 without buying it is if the team we scheduled with would accept a 2019 return game.

That's how bad it is.

Makes me wonder why we even built a stadium if we are going to act like an FCS program.

With the addition of Tennessee in 2015. it makes me wonder if the AD's plan isn't just to suck it up, play another 5 home game, 2 money games season in 2014 to try to add an inkling of flexibility.

It is that bad.

Edited June 27, 2013 by UNT90

The Fake Lonnie Finch · June 27, 2013

Look, if they'd committed to us, we'd have been saying, "Look who we beat for this guy!"

Okay.

We understand it isn't perfect. The point is, I think, low-on-the-totem-pole outfits like Rice and Texas State are going ahead and getting commitments. We are not.

And, whatever faith you do or do not put into those things, I, for one, thought McCarney would be more of a draw at this point.

GrayEagle · June 27, 2013

Not sure why it's not pulling up for you but it shows offers from Rice, Navy, Southern and UNT

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/158748/james-mayden

http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=6027931

Notice that neither espn or scout even mention interest in North Texas. They do show the Rice, Navy and Southern offers.

Edited June 27, 2013 by GrayEagle

Mean Green 93-98 · June 27, 2013

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/158748/james-mayden

Rice COMMITTED (06/25/2013) Offered None Houston None None Travis Bush LSU None None Minnesota None None Pat Poore Mississippi St. None None Navy None Offered None North Texas None Offered None Southern None Offered None

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-James-Mayden-143062

H-towngreen · June 27, 2013

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/158748/james-mayden

http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=6027931

Notice that neither espn or scout even mention interest in North Texas. They do show the Rice, Navy and Southern offers.

Ugh.....notice that 247 shows an offer on June 17th.

http://247sports.com/Player/James-Mayden-20332

Whether or not you choose to believe NT offered him or not, Rice is kicking our ass in recruiting right now. And taking a number of them from our own backyard. You say that we have a chance with some 30+ 3* recruits. Honestly, unless we end up above .500 this season or in a bowl game I'm not holding out too much hope of landing a good number of those 3* guys.

Edited June 27, 2013 by H-towngreen

UNTLifer · June 27, 2013

If this were signing day, half of you would be bitching they were only two star recruits that only picked us over Rice and TSUSM. Crazy

PlummMeanGreen · June 28, 2013

I just think we should have much higher goals than a series with SMU, a small private university.
That small, private university definitely has much higher goals than playing UNT every year.

I cannot talk for Dallas Green but I think he'd tell most of us that the way North Texas starts out-recruiting SMU is if we win about 8 or so out of those 12 games; otherwise, SMU will continue to get players we want in the recruiting wars. If we win our share against the 'Stangs then the recruiting field gets a bit more level.

12 games against SMU could actually be one of the most important home and home series we've ever had at North Texas if win a bunch of those 12. God help us if we don't .

GMG!

MeanGreenTexan · June 28, 2013

If this were signing day, half of you would be bitching they were only two star recruits that only picked us over Rice and TSUSM. Crazy

Instead, we're complaining that these guys found Rice and TX St more appealing than UNT. Crazy

UNTLifer · June 29, 2013

We can do better.

UNT90 · June 29, 2013

We must do better.

Fixed

Cougar King · June 29, 2013

Southern Miss just went 0-12 and still have a few recruits so winning isn't UNT's issue. (I mean it is but that's not the only reason why there isn't a single recruit on Scout or Rivals).

This staff is doing a lackluster job on recruiting and something's gotta give. Many teams are already halfway done recruiting for 2014.

PlummMeanGreen · June 29, 2013

In the past, we've played the Texas Longhorns off their butts with players (recruits) no one knew about during recruiting season.

An amazing phenomena here, but Boise State has never had a nationally acclaimed recruiting class but they do OK.

GMG!

UNTLifer · June 29, 2013

Southern Miss just went 0-12 and still have a few recruits so winning isn't UNT's issue. (I mean it is but that's not the only reason why there isn't a single recruit on Scout or Rivals).

This staff is doing a lackluster job on recruiting and something's gotta give. Many teams are already halfway done recruiting for 2014.

Go home.

Mean Green 93-98 · June 29, 2013

Southern Miss just went 0-12 and still have a few recruits so winning isn't UNT's issue. (I mean it is but that's not the only reason why there isn't a single recruit on Scout or Rivals).

This staff is doing a lackluster job on recruiting and something's gotta give. Many teams are already halfway done recruiting for 2014.

Go home.

No. He's right on this one. This staff has done an okay job identifying under-the-radar talent (e.g., Stock), and they've done a pretty good job developing players. But we can't regularly compete for conference championships in C-USA without beating out more schools for recruits.

UNTLifer · June 30, 2013

I fail to believe this staff is being lackluster with recruiting. I have listed last year's class and the offers our recruits has to choose from. The naysayers have yet to respond that post because it kills their criticisms of our recruiting.

They also are the same one's that whine and cry when we sign two star recruits yet whine and cry when two star recruits sign elsewhere.

GL2Greatness · June 30, 2013

I fail to believe this staff is being lackluster with recruiting. I have listed last year's class and the offers our recruits has to choose from. The naysayers have yet to respond that post because it kills their criticisms of our recruiting.
They also are the same one's that whine and cry when we sign two star recruits yet whine and cry when two star recruits sign elsewhere.

I posted this in another thread and many seemed to just ignore the facts, but here is a list of last year's class and their other listed offers from "Big Schools."

Just running through our list of committments from last year on Rivals, I see the following with offers from "big" schools or perceived better conferences:

Chad Davis: also offers from San Jose St., Texas Tech, Tulsa, Utah State and UTEP

Kidsy: no other offers listed, but the rumor was there were many coming in late.

Loving: reported Kansas State offered.

Manu: Memphis, Washington State

Moore: SMU, UTEP

Nelson: La. Tech

Schilleci: Washington State

Smiley: Navy

Scout.com shows offers from:

Loving: Kansas State

Davis: same list

Manu: same list

Brown: Hawaii

Kidsy: Fresno State, Illinois, Miami OH, and Utah

Plus, a number were recruited and offered by Texas State - San Marcos and UTSA.

Sure, it can always improve, but it isn't as bad as some make it out to be.

Outside of Kidsy and Loving, that is a pretty good list of schools that we beat out on for these young men.

As I noted at the end of that post, sure it can get better. We should always be looking to improve, but it is not near as bad as some make it out to be.

north Texas #117 rank for overall class with Rivals in 2013

you listed 8 players including one with the omni-present GMG staple of "rumors say" and another with the omni-present GMG staple of "reported, but NOT ACTUALLY REPORTED" (stealth reporting to go along with stealth recruiting, stealth fundraising, and stealth baseball :ph34r: ) with a total of 12 offers you listed including the one that was stealth reported.....just for kicks we will give Kidsy credit for three offers from who knows where, but why not since that is how things are done here on GMG so a total of 15 other offers

all of the offers below are just going by the Rivals page Scout was not used in this comparison

so for comparison since you ask

Texas State #81 Team Ranking

Lucas Askew Memphis Rice SMU Tulsa Wyoming

Jeff Banks Nevada

Donta Clanton Arkansas St. Kentucky UTSA

Marcus Dallas Jr Illinois Nevada

Trey Garrett Southern Miss Wyoming

Brice Gunter Air Force

Jamel James Arizona St. Arkansas Florida St.Houston Mississippi Notre Dame Texas Tech USC Washington West Virginia

Rusmin Nikocevic Arkansas

Dila Rosemond Houston Purdue Utah

Germod Williams Northwestern Rice UTEP

Demetrius Woodard North Texas Marshall

UTSA Unranked

Tevin Broussard Kansas St. Texas St. Florida Intl.Texas Tech

Justyn Eddins Arkansas St. N. Mexico St. Texas St. W. Michigan Wyoming

Aneas Henricks Rice Texas St. Wake Forest

Kenneth O'Neal Indiana LA Monroe Tulsa

Jalen Rhodes Colorado St. New Mexico N. Mexico St. North Texas

Jarveon Williams Florida Atlantic Northwestern Rice Texas St.

so Texas State had several three star players, a single player (Jamel James) had 2/3 the offers of all the north Texas state players combined (10 for Jamel and 15 for north Texas) and Texas State had 11 players with other offers from D1-A programs of any type of similar reputation to the ones you listed and Texas State had players with a total of 33 offers that were actually reported on VS 15 for north Texas

UTSA was unranked in 2013 for recruiting, but they had 6 players with actual reported offers Vs 8 (including 2 with stealth reported offers) for north Texas and UTSA had a total of 23 actually reported on D1-A offers from teams that were similar to teams that you included (like Memphis and UTEP).....and both Texas State and UTSA had some of those players with more offers than that, but they were not listed here because they were not up to the level of a Memphis or UTEP type program

and that is just looking at two programs that are rolling into their first years of playing D1-A football here in Texas (and one the first few years of playing any level of football) and that had a losing record or that beat the Bacon States of the world last year for some of their wins (although one had 4 D1-A wins and the other had 3 D1-A wins while north Texas had 3 D1-A wins) and one of those teams is going to be the only Texas team in the Sunbelt :blush:

so there is a response :bbq:

Edited June 30, 2013 by GL2Greatness

UNTLifer · June 30, 2013

The one that said "rumor has it," Kidsy, was shown lower in the post to have offers from a number of name schools on his page on Scout.com.

The one that was "reported," Loving, on rivals.com was confirmed,as noted, on scout.com

Rivals also admitted to dropping the rating of one of our commits, Davis, to meet some quota which, in my mind, weakens their ratings to the point that the difference between a 2 and 3 star recruit are essentially the same. This is the same system that had the Heisman Trophy winner rated as a 3 Starr. Once you get past the 4 and 5 starred athletes it is really a crap shoot.

Still way, way too early to get worked up.

Edited June 30, 2013 by UNTLifer

UNTLifer · June 30, 2013

Noticed you left out Scout and went with Rivals after I listed both which kills your argument. That was one of your posts that I have read all the way through in a long, long time and it reminded me as to why I quit. You pick and choose your "facts" to meet your weak agenda.

UNT90 · June 30, 2013

Regardless, when 8 or 9 of 25 recruits are the only ones with other significant offers, things are not going well.

Definitely not the way we all thought they would be going entering year 3 at Apogee.

Bottom line is we need to win some damn football games to change the perception.

A friend of mine's daughter went to soccer camp at UNT this summer. He came away impressed, but what was his comment to me? "I didn't think UNT would have such nice facilities. I mean, you guys never beat anyone."

I polite told him that UNT has been working hard to change the facilities, and, yes, the winning problem for the past 10 years, but so far we have only had success with the facilities part of the equation.

Point is, the perception is that UNT doesn't care about athletics or winning. I'm even beginning to get that idea myself.

PlummMeanGreen · June 30, 2013

Regardless, when 8 or 9 of 25 recruits are the only ones with other significant offers, things are not going well.
Definitely not the way we all thought they would be going entering year 3 at Apogee.
Bottom line is we need to win some damn football games to change the perception.
A friend of mine's daughter went to soccer camp at UNT this summer. He came away impressed, but what was his comment to me? "I didn't think UNT would have such nice facilities. I mean, you guys never beat anyone."
I polite told him that UNT has been working hard to change the facilities, and, yes, the winning problem for the past 10 years, but so far we have only had success with the facilities part of the equation.
Point is, the perception is that UNT doesn't care about athletics or winning. I'm even beginning to get that idea myself.

Perception is like fools gold...sometimes its just really not the real deal.

Few on this board know (or forgot) that SMU entered CUSA with almost a............ 20 year football seasons losing streak. I probably would mention to some that such athletic misfortune and losing cycles happen to other schools, too, before they throw (only) North Texas under the bus.

Kansas State had a dismal 75 year record of losing before Bill Snyder came to Manhattan, Kansas. Almost 99% of present NCAA FBS level school members "NEVER" had to endure what they did in Wildcat Country. I might have mentioned that to the little girl.

It is so easy to dog pile on losing programs and especially when it comes to North Texas. Funny how the Roman mob effect will change almost 180 degrees and overnight once over. 500 W/L seasons start happening (again) in Denton, Texas.

Losing begats what we get on this board sometimes to the level of ad nausem--I've hurled a few myself but..............I think we will all see how winning creates the opposite effect and at UNT it will be the best time possible now that we have top shelf athletic venues to keep such winning as a regular staple in Mean Green Country.

Good recruiting classes will happen in Denton, folks. Lets see what happens in Year 3 for Coach Mac inasmuch that if we win this Fall that might be a subtle hint that we've been doing OK with our recruiting?

Sure, Coach Mac may need to tweak or even change some of his salesmen (assistants) from time to time....but good recruits will be coming to North Texas. It's almost an inevitability because hellsbells..... look at what these kids get to look at on their first tour of the UNT campus and then the Mean Green Village for heaven's sake?!?!?!?!? Yes, a bit biased with that statement but most on this message board know what can ultimately sell and that which won't sell, but at North Texas, we've substantially added in most recent years to our PBL; that is, our Positive Benefits List.

Sure...we (especially those of us older nestors) want all this to have happened yesterday, but lest all forget............. we had 5 losing seasons in a row before we had 4 bowl games in a row and that happened last decade--not that long ago.

So should we ask Kansas State fans about the virtue of patience, fellow alums and Mean Green fans? We could probably learn that virtue from them more than anyone.

GMG!

Edited June 30, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

greenminer · June 30, 2013

I fail to believe this staff is being lackluster with recruiting.

I get that you're tired of all the negativity on recruits. You follow the classes more than anyone and possibly consider the comments - at times anyways - an attack of not just their ability but the young men themselves.

Maybe the expectations are unrealistic. I wonder if that might be because this fan base is desperate for wins.

personally, I wouldn't call the class lackluster, but I do think there is room for concern. If not at the quality of recruits, then certainly at the lack of quantity at certain positions like DL. It might not be fair, but it is the coaches' responsibility for this and criticism from fans comes with the territory.

Edited June 30, 2013 by greenminer

PlummMeanGreen · June 30, 2013

We all get caught up with "are we going to look good or bad compared to our peers in Texas and now CUSA" with all this recruiting business.

Dave Campbell's Texas Football magazine most every year now in his summer edition does a feature on "how did all our Texas

schools do recruiting-wise (is it) 5 years ago; that is, which recruits made it and which ones didn't (and he has a list of each NCAA FBS level school in Texas and goes down the list of the players of each school).

Hayden Fry (oh dear God, here we go again...I know what your thinking) ; but in the winter of 1977 Fry recruited the most highly recruited HS football player in the entire Lone Star State for North Texas and that player didn't make the grade at all but then.....

This...

....how many unheralded recruits along with walk-ons "DID" make the grade at UNT and have been part of our best teams in Mean Green Country years past (of which some of that group of players even led the way for some of our teams to go to bowl games last decade) and decades before for that matter?

Yes, I know, we forget about all of that when the TEXAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RECRUITING WARS start all over again each year. That memory loss we all seem to experience of what we've all seen happen in Denton as expressed in the sentence above this one is quite the phenomena itself.

I wish we could sign fifteen or so 4 to 5 star rated recruits each year but we won't....(so does Bill Snyder of KSU and Coach Peterson's Boise State for that matter because both those schools hardly ever finish in the Top 25 best recruiting classes most any year--in fact, for Boise they haven't ever finished in a Top 50 recruiting class from what I've read, but I may have to further check into that with another online source.

Still, schools like the 2 mentioned above do have to have a coaching staff who have the uncanny ability to discern which kids few want could make it at the NCAA FBS level....that has been the success at schools like KSU and BSU that are not going to have Top 25 recruiting classes...some of that group even might make it to some of the better bowls any given year for that matter.

GMG!

PS: Honest to goodness, best thing I've read today on GMG.com is the news on the Apogee Hotel and Conference/Convention Center....that rendering is very sweet to say the least and it just adds more fire power for our recruiting.

Here is the link on that beaut' !

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Denton-Convention-Center-Gets-Closer-to-Reality-199063231.html

Edited July 1, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

KRAM1 · June 30, 2013

Regardless, when 8 or 9 of 25 recruits are the only ones with other significant offers, things are not going well.Definitely not the way we all thought they would be going entering year 3 at Apogee.Bottom line is we need to win some damn football games to change the perception.A friend of mine's daughter went to soccer camp at UNT this summer. He came away impressed, but what was his comment to me? "I didn't think UNT would have such nice facilities. I mean, you guys never beat anyone."I polite told him that UNT has been working hard to change the facilities, and, yes, the winning problem for the past 10 years, but so far we have only had success with the facilities part of the equation.Point is, the perception is that UNT doesn't care about athletics or winning. I'm even beginning to get that idea myself.

I trust you told him how successful the soccer team has been, right? If he wants his kid to follow a successful local program, well, UNT is a winning one to follow. You did point that out, right?

UNTLifer · July 1, 2013

I get that you're tired of all the negativity on recruits. You follow the classes more than anyone and possibly consider the comments - at times anyways - an attack of not just their ability but the young men themselves.

Maybe the expectations are unrealistic. I wonder if that might be because this fan base is desperate for wins.

personally, I wouldn't call the class lackluster, but I do think there is room for concern. If not at the quality of recruits, then certainly at the lack of quantity at certain positions like DL. It might not be fair, but it is the coaches' responsibility for this and criticism from fans comes with the territory.

I agree and the DL situation is concerning, but we also must realize that the culture had to be changed after the Dodge years. What is most frustrating to me is we criticize our two star recruits that sign with us because they are supposedly not good enough and then turn around and complain when they sign elsewhere. It becomes a no win situation and appears that some complain just to complain.