When do we start winning the bigger recruiting battles?

[PlummMeanGreen]

Not making excuses for Coach Mac, but Fry had his first over .500 season in Year 3 in Denton; Dickey in Year 5 since we went to the first NO's Bowl under .500 as I recall. No biggie there since Fry took SMU to a bowl one year when his team was (as I recall) 4 & 6. Go figure.

Not sure why the football gods never smiled on our school in the past and let one of our past coaches go bonkers their very first season at UNT with a winning season (Fry was 5-5-1 in 73'); which some schools we know of seem to have pulled that rabbit out of their hats quite successfully. Oh well...

GMG!

[GrandGreen]

Other than one class, the basis of all of Dickey's success, Dickey's classes were sub par. I still don't know what magic happened in that one class, because no one at NT has come close since.

Dickey was ether a realist or the laziest recruiter ever. He did not waste a lot of time recruiting early and was content to pick over the unrecruited late in the process. He found a few gems in kids that thought they were going to get the offer to the big time schools but didn't. This worked for a while because most Texas players preferred NT to the other Belt teams. Later, teams like Tulsa and La Tech as well as the Belt teams that recruited in Texas could easily out recruit Dickey who was content to rest on his laurels and hunt for that dream job.

Arkansas State nor ULL were big winning teams before they hired new coaches the same year as McCarney. Yet, both had far more success at schools with even less at the time than NT.

It can be done at NT, it just takes the right coach. I am not ready to say that McCarney is not that coach; but the results thus far are little more than acceptable.

Edited June 25, 2013 by GrandGreen

[H-towngreen]

Other than one class, the basis of all of Dickey's success, Dickey's classes were sub par. I still don't know what magic happened in that one class, because no one at NT has come close since.

Ding ding ding. Dickey lived off of that one class. Recruiting has changed drastically since that 2000 class as well. Early recruiting, football camps, Rivals, Scouts, de-commits, it's a totally different beast now.

[meangreener]

I will say, while we continue to ride Mac over his lackluster recruiting, he's filling in talent gaps with highly touted transfers. I mean, if you're transferring and you're high profile, there's a good chance Mac is going to take a stab at you. And now we have some legit D1 talent. While he's not getting 3 star recruits, he's getting really big guys who look like they belong and coaching them up like Patterson. Mac's taking his time and not doing a haphazard bang-up job...and I'm cool with that. He's hoarding big guys and big transfers.

[Mean_Green09]

I will say, while we continue to ride Mac over his lackluster recruiting, he's filling in talent gaps with highly touted transfers. I mean, if you're transferring and you're high profile, there's a good chance Mac is going to take a stab at you. And now we have some legit D1 talent. While he's not getting 3 star recruits, he's getting really big guys who look like they belong and coaching them up like Patterson. Mac's taking his time and not doing a haphazard bang-up job...and I'm cool with that. He's hoarding big guys and big transfers.

Which is all well and good to a certain extent. Recruiting is the life blood of success or failure at any school. Transfers and JUCO players are sometimes worth the risk, but are a short term fix. My take on it is that he isnt having the success with high school recruits like he thought he could. So to get those high school players to buy into UNT he is hoping that a few transfers and JUCO's will help boost the win total right now. Which in turn could spark interest. He doesnt have to pour in 3 stars to be sucessfull here. He just needs to find the talent to go along with what he is trying to do. Finding the best or highest rated recruite doesnt always translate into championships. Just ask Mack Brown and Texas. UNT needs to find the right 22 players to put on the field that gives them the best chance to win under their system.

[meangreener]

Which is all well and good to a certain extent. Recruiting is the life blood of success or failure at any school. Transfers and JUCO players are sometimes worth the risk, but are a short term fix. My take on it is that he isnt having the success with high school recruits like he thought he could. So to get those high school players to buy into UNT he is hoping that a few transfers and JUCO's will help boost the win total right now. Which in turn could spark interest. He doesnt have to pour in 3 stars to be sucessfull here. He just needs to find the talent to go along with what he is trying to do. Finding the best or highest rated recruite doesnt always translate into championships. Just ask Mack Brown and Texas. UNT needs to find the right 22 players to put on the field that gives them the best chance to win under their system.

Which is what I think he's doing. He knows transfers and JUCOs will fix things NOW, so he can build it for the future.

[GrandGreen]

There are as many 3 star recruits as 2, so it not like it is hard to get a few. It is highly unusual for any school not to have at least one.

I like transfers too, but it is not like NT is doing any better than their peers in that category either. Many lower tier schools can match or beat NT in both the quality and quantity of name school transfers.

You can twist this anyway you want, but NT is consistently loses most of the recruiting battles. Our hope is that McCarney and staff are better at finding those that can play at a higher level than their recruiting indicates.

[Mean_Green09]

I dont think he knows it will fix things NOW. I think he is hoping and taking a chance because its really his only choice.

[emmitt01]

Bringing in the transfers is a last ditch effort, a Hail Mary in your third year. And there is NO guarantee that they will produce wins. When a school like Auburn brings in a transfer (Cam Newton), they can use that single player to propel themselves to new heights...but only because the rest of their roster is littered with recruiting "wins" and not reaches.

And I' don't know why anyone bought this "with better facilities comes better recruits" line. Has it? And why would it? If you march a kid into Apogee and try to sell him he'll most likely be impressed....until you march him into Ford Stadium, or the renovated Amon Carter, or any other stadium that is on par (their opinion, not ours) with Apogee. Then it's all about winning, faith that our fortunes will turn, opponents, etc. Point being, we're all very pleased with Apogee because we know the upgrade that it is. These kids have never dealt with lesser facilities, and if they're the kids we really want they'll never have to.

[KRAM1]

There are as many 3 star recruits as 2, so it not like it is hard to get a few. It is highly unusual for any school not to have at least one.

I like transfers too, but it is not like NT is doing any better than their peers in that category either. Many lower tier schools can match or beat NT in both the quality and quantity of name school transfers.

You can twist this anyway you want, but NT is consistently loses most of the recruiting battles. Our hope is that McCarney and staff are better at finding those that can play at a higher level than their recruiting indicates.

You Have lots of experience recruiting D1 players I assume as you seem to think it is easy for UNT to pick up 3 star recruits. In your experience recruiting is easy? Interesting how some here think that recruiting for UNT is easy at this time with the 3, 4 and 5 star players. From my fan's seat, it seems just the opposite to me...recruiting seems to be tough work to me and a tough road to walk especially when a program has not been that successful in a few years on the field.

Agree that UNT has not won that many of the recruiting battles with the more highly recruited (that we fans know about), but the positive here is that UNT is now going after these more highly recruited "star rated" athletes. Rome was not built in a day and neither will the rebuilding of UNT's football recruiting successes be. Anyone who thinks this year's squad is not the best we will have seen in the way of quality "D1 athletes" in some time just has not been paying attention.

[Mean_Green09]

Agree that UNT has not won that many of the recruiting battles with the more highly recruited (that we fans know about), but the positive here is that UNT is now going after these more highly recruited "star rated" athletes. Rome was not built in a day and neither will the rebuilding of UNT's football recruiting successes be. Anyone who thinks this year's squad is not the best we will have seen in the way of quality "D1 athletes" in some time just has not been paying attention.

I agree with the fact that this will be the most D1 worthy team that UNT has had in sometime. We wont look like a high school team matched against a college team. I'm not so sure that its really positive that we are going after the big time recruits. Its one thing to offer, hell Bama has a couple thousand offers out right now. So I hope they are not just throwing offers out and hoping they are sticking bc that is just a big waste of time. What I'm hoping is that the big recruits they are going after are because of relationships with that player. UNT can't waste time on big fish that they are never going to catch.

[untjim1995]

I still think the biggest problems with recruiting involve perception. Parents and high school coaches have known North Texas to be a losing program that rarely plays anyone that matters to them. Plus, the older ones know that North Texas cared so little about football that they let the program fall down to 1-aa and stay there for a long time. Even after coming back up to i-a, they just kept playing football at Fouts, which was worse than your average YMCA field. For kids in the Metroplex, they have seen TCU win big and get into the Big XII, as well as also having seen SMU get their program revived, all while getting lots of local media coverage. We get nothing, but the last footage on a Saturday of the local media's college football coverage if we are really lucky. Then, you couple the losing with having coaches that weren't exactly the most "accepted" by TX High School coaches, this is what you get. McCarney is way above the last few coaches here at UNT, as far as personlaity goes, but he is fighting a battle that won't get fixed without a major winning season streak over teams that fans care about. I'd like to think that CUSA will help in that area, but I also realize that no matter how much we convince ourselves that we are better off with Texas schools in the conference, which we are, the fact remains that very few people care about UNT, UTEP, Rice, or UTSA Football. But, in the end, we can only hope that winning in CUSA would help this, since it didn't with the SBC run in the early 00's.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I still think the biggest problems with recruiting involve perception. Parents and high school coaches have known North Texas to be a losing program that rarely plays anyone that matters to them. Plus, the older ones know that North Texas cared so little about football that they let the program fall down to 1-aa and stay there for a long time. Even after coming back up to i-a, they just kept playing football at Fouts, which was worse than your average YMCA field. For kids in the Metroplex, they have seen TCU win big and get into the Big XII, as well as also having seen SMU get their program revived, all while getting lots of local media coverage. We get nothing, but the last footage on a Saturday of the local media's college football coverage if we are really lucky. Then, you couple the losing with having coaches that weren't exactly the most "accepted" by TX High School coaches, this is what you get. McCarney is way above the last few coaches here at UNT, as far as personlaity goes, but he is fighting a battle that won't get fixed without a major winning season streak over teams that fans care about. I'd like to think that CUSA will help in that area, but I also realize that no matter how much we convince ourselves that we are better off with Texas schools in the conference, which we are, the fact remains that very few people care about UNT, UTEP, Rice, or UTSA Football. But, in the end, we can only hope that winning in CUSA would help this, since it didn't with the SBC run in the early 00's.

untjim1995, I hear what you are saying (posting) but in the 70's there were a whole bunch of people in these parts who didn't care too much about

TCU Horned Frog football, either. Only time they drew crowds at ACS was when the power schools of the SWC came to FW along with their traveling fans. Hell, TCU wouldn't even schedule North Texas for well over 30 plus years during the Abner Hayne's Era, the Joe Greene Era and the Hayden Fry Era and it doesn't take a rocket scientist as to understand why they would not play us. (Of course when it would be obvious our program would be down TCU would very subtlely put us on their football schedules, then).

Also, the same thing could be said for Kansas State prior to 1989 and Bill Snyder. Boise State another prime example of what at one time looked like a college football wasteland.

North Texas? Just never say never is what i still say. Even local sports icon Norm Hitzghes said after Apogee was built: "North Texas...why not North Texas as the next Boise State?" And Norm is not one to throw such bouquets around to any area school unless he means it..

GMG!

[NT03]

It's becoming clearer and clearer that this will only happen after we beat someone that matters during a bowl winning season.

Until then, expect the only teams we compete with to be UTSA and Texas St.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Tillman-Johnson-153329;_ylt=AvbPu6Ovs_U9q5QQwKV7zQdDPZB4

We lost our 1st battle w / Texas State last night

Edited June 26, 2013 by NT03

[SilverEagle]

I still think the biggest problems with recruiting involve perception. Parents and high school coaches have known North Texas to be a losing program that rarely plays anyone that matters to them. Plus, the older ones know that North Texas cared so little about football that they let the program fall down to 1-aa and stay there for a long time. Even after coming back up to i-a, they just kept playing football at Fouts, which was worse than your average YMCA field.

And this is why we should send out electronic survey forms,( like the LONG OVERDUE survey forms that were sent out to MGC members) to everyone that we actively recruited. And that includes their parents and coaches. The survey forms should be worded differently for each person (recruits, parents, coaches), and it should include a section called "did you know this about North Texas?" that has links to all the things new and improved at North Texas......especially the facilities.

[GrandGreen]

You Have lots of experience recruiting D1 players I assume as you seem to think it is easy for UNT to pick up 3 star recruits. In your experience recruiting is easy? Interesting how some here think that recruiting for UNT is easy at this time with the 3, 4 and 5 star players. From my fan's seat, it seems just the opposite to me...recruiting seems to be tough work to me and a tough road to walk especially when a program has not been that successful in a few years on the field.

Agree that UNT has not won that many of the recruiting battles with the more highly recruited (that we fans know about), but the positive here is that UNT is now going after these more highly recruited "star rated" athletes. Rome was not built in a day and neither will the rebuilding of UNT's football recruiting successes be. Anyone who thinks this year's squad is not the best we will have seen in the way of quality "D1 athletes" in some time just has not been paying attention.

Lets see, now you must have direct experience to offer an "obvious" comment. Not to mention, that I never said anything was easy. However, most teams are apparently finding it a lot easier than McCarney and crew.

As far as going after the star athlete; so what? Anyone can offer any player, it means little if you don't ever sign any of them.

It is obvious that you must have experience as a HC because of your acute evaluation of this year's squad. Who at this point have proved nothing on the field. As far as being the best in quality of athletes in a long time. I guess you are comparing the late Dickey years, Dodge and Mc's first two years at NT with the current squad. All those teams were down, and a really bad reference for quality.

Hopefully, this year's team will be the best at NT "in a long time" and not just look more athletic. However, it won't be because NT won a lot of recruiting battles, because they have not. Now, I said it again; without the benefit of ever recruiting any college athlete because it is an undeniable fact. Note, I didn't say there has not been progress or that a lot of McCarney's recruits won't be stars.

All fans hope that NT not only gets better, but builds to national prominence. Apparently, some are impressed with a program that is slightly above a disinterested Dickey or totally inept Dodge; but most want a lot more than that.

[untjim1995]

untjim1995, I hear what you are saying (posting) but in the 70's there were a whole bunch of people in these parts who didn't care too much about

TCU Horned Frog football, either. Only time they drew crowds at ACS was when the power schools of the SWC came to FW along with their traveling fans. Hell, TCU wouldn't even schedule North Texas for well over 30 plus years during the Abner Hayne's Era, the Joe Greene Era and the Hayden Fry Era and it doesn't take a rocket scientist as to understand why they would not play us. (Of course when it would be obvious our program would be down TCU would very subtlely put us on their football schedules, then).

Also, the same thing could be said for Kansas State prior to 1989 and Bill Snyder. Boise State another prime example of what at one time looked like a college football wasteland.

North Texas? Just never say never is what i still say. Even local sports icon Norm Hitzghes said after Apogee was built: "North Texas...why not North Texas as the next Boise State?" And Norm is not one to throw such bouquets around to any area school unless he means it..

GMG!

PMG,

The only thing that differntiates TCU and KSU from UNT is that their schedules helped them immensely, money wise. Same with Baylor and Texas Tech. They could be awful, but their coffers got filled by playing teams that brought fans of theirs, plus YOUR fans wanted to come watch those teams play yours.

You know how hard it has been to convince someone to come watch North Texas play Louisiana-Monroe or Florida Atlantic. Plus, those schools bring very few people with them to a game in Denton. Those others never had to climb that hill. Now, your comparison to Boise State is on target, since they played teams that didn't bring many fans to a game at Bronco Stadium. BUt the teams they played had some name recognition and Boise had a pretty decent sized city as their own to follow.

I have long felt that the one program that most resembles North Texas is San Jose State. They are a state school with a big enrollment, long history, and play FBS ball. But they are easily considered last among California FBS schools and they play in a market with two other Pac-12 schools that dominate the media market in Cal and Stanford. And their funding is never strong for the program.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. For recruiting success against the SWC schools to happen more often than not, you are going to have to follow the Johnny Jones plan. Bring in transfers from other places, actually start winning, continue to win, have the others in the area (SMU and TCU) fall down, and you will then get a Tony Mitchell-type prospect that will consider playing here. Its the only way you can defeat that SWC mystique that both of those schools still carry with the local media and the Texas HS coaches, as well as their parents.

[KRAM1]

There are as many 3 star recruits as 2, so it not like it is hard to get a few. It is highly unusual for any school not to have at least one.

"It's not like it is hard to get a few". Seems to me the opposite of being hard is being easy. Since you say it is not hard...I just assumed you feel it must be easy. I believe you did, in fact, indicate that recuriting 3 star athletes was easy, but maybe not. You know, since it is "highly unusal for ANY school not to have at least one".

No problem...perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by it not being hard...this recruiting thing.

[GOMG2013]

And this is why we should send out electronic survey forms,( like the LONG OVERDUE survey forms that were sent out to MGC members) to everyone that we actively recruited. And that includes their parents and coaches. The survey forms should be worded differently for each person (recruits, parents, coaches), and it should include a section called "did you know this about North Texas?" that has links to all the things new and improved at North Texas......especially the facilities.

Until UNT played UH, I did not know UNT was D1. I keep up with college football, but not being on TV and playing in the Sunbelt, you just dont hear much about unt in Houston. Its probably the same in other areas that are not close to Dallas. TV and conference upgrade will be huge in getting exposure.

Recruiting has changed a lot over the years. Comparing other years is pointless. SOcial media is used extensively by most major programs. They are contacting these recruits everyday and a lot earlier in the process. They send letters once or twice perper week, and that adds up. Unt will also need to improve in these areas.

[H-towngreen]

Recruiting has changed a lot over the years. Comparing other years is pointless. SOcial media is used extensively by most major programs. They are contacting these recruits everyday and a lot earlier in the process. They send letters once or twice perper week, and that adds up. Unt will also need to improve in these areas.

This x1000

[Harry]

GOMG2013 is so right... Twitter and social media has changed the entire game dramatically. These kids use twitter to communicate their recruiting. Everything else is secondary.

[UNTLifer]

I posted this in another thread and many seemed to just ignore the facts, but here is a list of last year's class and their other listed offers from "Big Schools."

Just running through our list of committments from last year on Rivals, I see the following with offers from "big" schools or perceived better conferences:

Chad Davis: also offers from San Jose St., Texas Tech, Tulsa, Utah State and UTEP

Kidsy: no other offers listed, but the rumor was there were many coming in late.

Loving: reported Kansas State offered.

Manu: Memphis, Washington State

Moore: SMU, UTEP

Nelson: La. Tech

Schilleci: Washington State

Smiley: Navy

Scout.com shows offers from:

Loving: Kansas State

Davis: same list

Manu: same list

Brown: Hawaii

Kidsy: Fresno State, Illinois, Miami OH, and Utah

Plus, a number were recruited and offered by Texas State - San Marcos and UTSA.

Sure, it can always improve, but it isn't as bad as some make it out to be.

Outside of Kidsy and Loving, that is a pretty good list of schools that we beat out on for these young men.

As I noted at the end of that post, sure it can get better. We should always be looking to improve, but it is not near as bad as some make it out to be.

[KRAM1]

I posted this in another thread and many seemed to just ignore the facts, but here is a list of last year's class and their other listed offers from "Big Schools."

Interesting...thanks for this!

[UNT90]

All fans hope that NT not only gets better, but builds to national prominence. Apparently, some are impressed with a program that is slightly above a disinterested Dickey or totally inept Dodge; but most want a lot more than that.

BRAVO!

[GL2Greatness]

I posted this in another thread and many seemed to just ignore the facts, but here is a list of last year's class and their other listed offers from "Big Schools."

Just running through our list of committments from last year on Rivals, I see the following with offers from "big" schools or perceived better conferences:

Chad Davis: also offers from San Jose St., Texas Tech, Tulsa, Utah State and UTEP

Kidsy: no other offers listed, but the rumor was there were many coming in late.

Loving: reported Kansas State offered.

Manu: Memphis, Washington State

Moore: SMU, UTEP

Nelson: La. Tech

Schilleci: Washington State

Smiley: Navy

Scout.com shows offers from:

Loving: Kansas State

Davis: same list

Manu: same list

Brown: Hawaii

Kidsy: Fresno State, Illinois, Miami OH, and Utah

Plus, a number were recruited and offered by Texas State - San Marcos and UTSA.

Sure, it can always improve, but it isn't as bad as some make it out to be.

Outside of Kidsy and Loving, that is a pretty good list of schools that we beat out on for these young men.

As I noted at the end of that post, sure it can get better. We should always be looking to improve, but it is not near as bad as some make it out to be.

since I was accused of "bias" in the other thread and could not respond before it was closed I will respond here

It is laughable that you would consider it "bias" that I only compared Rivals rankings when during that comparison I gave north Texas credit for two players that were not shown to have any other offers by Rivals (giving north Texas 8 instead of 6 players) while I gave UTSA and Texas State no credit for any players that did not have other offers actually listed by Rivals and I also gave north Texas credit for three phantom offers as well to make it 15 offers instead of 12 total offers from other teams for those (six) eight players that I counted as having Rivals offers even though two of them did not have Rivals offers listed

It is hard to imagine that anyone that is not logically challenged or intellectually bankrupt would see that as "biased" against north Texas, but alas you are just such a person so you did see that as "bias" or that comparing Rivals players and offers to Rivals players and offers is somehow "bias" when of course north Texas was given two players and three additional offers while UTSA and Texas State were not given anything....I mean really it was a comparison using the same source, Rivals, with north Texas given extra offers and players that UTSA and Texas state were not.....and since Rivals was the source that had 6 players with offers and you listed 8 and counted 2 that actually had no offers listed on Rivals and based that on the fact they had offers listed on Scout while you only listed 6 players for Scout I was using the comparison between a single source, Rivals, that north Texas had the larger number of players counted.....using your method of giving two players credit for offers on Rivals even though they were not listed as having other offers on Rivals, but instead on Scout.....I suppose I could have been "less biased" if I had counted the 9th player that was listed by you from Scout as having an offer as well even though I had already used two players in the "Rivals" list that did not have offers listed by Rivals, but instead by Scout

Also I had left off a couple of players for Texas State that Rivals had with D1-A offers from teams besides Texas State because they were offers from teams that were not quite as "legit" as UTEP or Memphis which is some of the teams you counted as "big time" offers.....so again in the case of Texas State they were under counted on Rivals players as well

but just to make sure there is no "bias" here lets do it over again with Scout and Rivals

Rivals

north Texas #117 no 3* prospects

Texas State #81 Eight 3* prospects

Lucas Askew Memphis Rice SMU Tulsa Wyoming

Jeff Banks Nevada

Donta Clanton Arkansas St. Kentucky UTSA

Marcus Dallas Jr Illinois Nevada

Trey Garrett Southern Miss Wyoming

Brice Gunter Air Force

***Jackson Hoskins New Mexico

Jamel James Arizona St. Arkansas Florida St.Houston Mississippi Notre Dame Texas Tech USC Washington West Virginia

***Demun Mercer Rice SMU

Rusmin Nikocevic Arkansas

***Kristofer Petersen New Mexico

Dila Rosemond Houston Purdue Utah

***Lawrence White Wyoming

Germod Williams Northwestern Rice UTEP

Demetrius Woodard North Texas Marshall

UTSA Unranked One 3* prospect

Tevin Broussard Kansas St. Texas St. Florida Intl.Texas Tech

Justyn Eddins Arkansas St. N. Mexico St. Texas St. W. Michigan Wyoming

Aneas Henricks Rice Texas St. Wake Forest

Kenneth O'Neal Indiana LA Monroe Tulsa

Jalen Rhodes Colorado St. New Mexico N. Mexico St. North Texas

Jarveon Williams Florida Atlantic Northwestern Rice Texas St.

so just to not show "bias" we will have north Texas with 9 players listed by Rivals as having other offers even though Rivals actually only has 6 players actually listed with other offers, but we will give them credit as having other offers on Rivals based on the other offers on Scout......we will only count players for Texas State and UTSA that had other offers actually listed on Rivals

so not north Texas has 9 players on "Rivals" with other offers on "Rivals" and Texas State has 15.....but we will leave the 4 off that I did not count before because I thought their other offers were not equal to the teams that north Texas players had other offers from like UTEP and Memphis.....so we will count Texas State at 11 instead of 15 and we will have UTSA at six players with other offers

so clearly north Texas put a whooping on UTSA as far as players listed on Rivals with other offers and they were very very close to the same number of players with other offers listed on Rivals as Texas State.....Texas State had a total of 33 other offers with one single player having 10 alone and this is not counting the 4 players that were added to this list, but not counted (only the offers from the original 11 players from the previous thread)....we will use all the offers from other teams from north Texas from both Scout and Rivals and that has north Texas at 17 and we will add three more phantom offers because we know that Rivals ignores north Texas in general so north Texas has 20 total other offers and we will add another three for phantom other offers on Scout so north Texas has 23 total other offers on "Rivals".......while Texas State has 33 and one player with 10 alone which is nearly half of the north Texas total......UTSA has 23 other offers on Rivals as well.....so north Texas is VERY competitive with UTSA and really really close to Texas state as well and again north Texas put a whooping on UTSA with 9 total players on "Rivals" while UTSA only had 6 and UTSA was unranked on Rivals while north Texas was #117 and Texas State was #81

Texas State had eight 3* recruits while north Texas and UTSA had none......we now know thanks to untlifer that Rivals downgraded one of the former 3* recruits for north Texas as well and we can all be sure they probably did it to others as well......so we will cut the eight 3* players for Texas State down to 4 and we will add two #* players to north Texas so now north Texas has two 3* players and Texas State has four 3* players......this of course will change the rankings as well so we will take 10 places off of north Texas and they are now #107 and we will add 20 places to Texas State so they are now #101 and UTSA stays unranked with zero 3* players.......so now that I have removed all my "bias" from the equation and compared Rivals to Rivals only (which itself is "biased") it is clear that north Texas is stomping UTSA in recruiting and very very competitive with Texas State and similar teams that north Texas looks to keep up with

but just to be sure lets do Scout as well

Scout

North Texas #124

Texas State #104 Two 3* prospects

Lucas Askew Memphis New Mexico North Texas Wyoming

Marcus Dallas Florida Atlantic Illinois Middle Tennessee Nevada

Trey Garrett Arkansas State Southern Miss Wyoming

Brice Gunter Air Force

Jackson Hoskins New Mexico

Jamel James Arizona State Arkansas LSU Mississippi Notre Dame Texas Tech West Virginia

Tyler Jones New Mexico

Demun Mercer Rice SMU

Kris Petersen New Mexico

Germod Williams Northwestern Rice

Demetrius Woodard Marshall New Mexico

UTSA Ranked #100 Two 3* prospects

Trevor Baker Idaho

Tevin Broussard Kansas State Texas State

Reed Darragh Navy

Justyn Eddins Arkansas State Wyoming

Aneas Henricks Cincinnati Tulsa

Kenneth O'Neal Tulsa ULM

Jalen Rhodes North Texas

Jarveon Williams Florida Atlantic Northwestern Rice Texas State

Texas state has 11 players listed with other offers on Scout while north Texas has 9 players with other offers on "Scout" and north Texas has 23 other teams offering players on "Scout" while Texas State has 28.....but some of those offers are from New Mexico and the like that really can't compare to UTEP and Memphis and some of the programs that north Texas players are getting offers from....so we will take 3 off from Texas State and they have 25 offers now

UTSA has only 8 players listed on Scout vs the 9 players listed on "Scout" with other offers for north Texas so again scoreboard north Texas there and on Scout UTSA only has 15 total other offers and probably 3 of those can't compare to UTEP and Memphis so we will say UTSA has 12 other offers VS the 23 for north Texas so again major score board for north Texas

UTSA was ranked #100 on Scout, Texas State #104 and north Texas #124 and north Texas had no 3* offers and Texas State and UTSA each had two.....but again we know that players get downgraded by going to north Texas and because UTSA has UT in the name and because Texas State is trying to fool the ranking services into thinking that they are the land grant university in Texas with the Texas State name we will subtract two 3* players from UTSA and Texas State and add two to north Texas so now UTSA and Texas State have ZERO 3* players and north Texas has two so score board there as well against both Texas State and UTSA and that will of course change the rankings so we will add 20 places to UTSA and Texas State and subtract 10 from north Texas so now UTSA is #120 and Texas State #124 DEAD LAST SUCKERS EAT IT TEXAS STATE and north Texas is #114 so again north Texas is clearly recruiting as well or better than Texas state and UTSA and other teams they are looking to keep competitive with and there is little to worry about when the "bias" is removed and accounted for

just for fun lets compare to Todge recruiting class #3

Todge 2009 (The recruiting year leading into year 3 the turn it around year!)

Rivals

north Texas #104 Three 3* players

Austin Fitzpatrick Florida Atlantic LA Lafayette New Mexico

Jamaal Jackson Louisiana Tech

Kelvin Jackson LA Monroe

Daniel Mayberry UTEP

Daniel Prior Iowa St. Louisiana Tech LA Monroe Rice SMU UTEP

Ira Smith Louisiana Tech Mississippi UAB

Tyler Washington Louisiana Tech SMU UTEP

Rivals #104.....three 3* players, seven players with other offers and 18 total other offers....this VS the 2012 class with 9 "Rivals" players with other offers, "two" 3* players and "23" other offers and a #117 ranking......Todge played at UT and so we will take two 3* players off of his 2009 class and we have north Texas 2012 with two 3* players when we account for the rankings services downgrading current north Texas players and we will subtract 10 from the 2012 class ranking to get it to #107 and add 10 to the 2009 class to get it to #114 so right there for ALL TO SEE CLEARLY the 2012 class for DMac was easily as good as the Todge 2009 class that was heading into year #3 the "turn it around year"

Scout

Two 3* prospects

Tie for #116 (so we will say #117)

Darius Carey Tulane

Austin Fitzpatrick Florida Atlantic Louisiana

Jamaal Jackson Louisiana Tech

Daniel Prior Iowa State Louisiana Tech SMU Utah State

Ira Smith Louisiana Tech Louisville UAB

Tyler Washington Louisiana Tech SMU UTEP

Kyle White Louisiana ULM

7 other players with offers on Scout vs "9" for 2012 on "Scout" .....16 total other offers for 2009 VS "23" for 2012.....we subtract two 3*s from 2009 and add two to 2012 so 2012 has two 3* players VS none for 2009 and then add 10 to the 2009 rankings and subtract 10 from 2012 so we are at #107 for 2012 VS #126 for 2009

again when using Scout and removing the "bias" we see that DMac is moving well ahead of where Todge had drug us to in 2009 and things are really looking up for recruiting

I would imagine there is still some "bias" in here and untlifer can come help clean that up, but CLEARLY untlifer is correct and recruiting is getting better and better and north Texas is very competitive and even putting a whooping on teams they want to compete with for recruits