When do we start winning the bigger recruiting battles?

[emmitt01]

Looking at Vito's blog Nick Orr picked TCU and the linebacker Rhone chose SMU.

So, when do we become more of a destination for the bigger recruits that we are after...and not AFTER they've been at another school and transfer in for playing time.

[greenminer]

I think the missing link is winning (with this staff). If it doesn't start happening after a couple of 7+ (-ish) win seasons, it ain't meant to be.

[laxtonto]

Baby steps...

We are just now dealing with the first class of recruits that have been exposed to UNT's campus camps/workout day at Apogee. People forget that recruiting for some of these kids started in the 7th and 8th grades and got serious their Fr year. Win the HS coaches, then win the players.

Wins help, but UNT was considered such a joke facilities wise we are just now changing that perception. Outside of a kids parent, their coach holds the power in where they go and lets just say we lost most of the area coaches a few years back..

[UNTLifer]

We did win some of these last year. We just need to win more of them.

[greenminer]

Wins help, but UNT was considered such a joke facilities wise we are just now changing that perception. Outside of a kids parent, their coach holds the power in where they go and lets just say we lost most of the area coaches a few years back..

The facilities argument is dead, IMO. If they come here and are blown away by facilities, it's not because they (the facilities) are new...it's because the kid and fam are completely oblivious to everything Denton.

[Green P1]

When we're no longer the worst team in North Texas?

[laxtonto]

The facilities argument is dead, IMO. If they come here and are blown away by facilities, it's not because they (the facilities) are new...it's because the kid and fam are completely oblivious to everything Denton.

But how do you get them to get here if the coach tells them that the facilities are junk? That is really the hardest fight to overcome and Mac seems to be doing it right. Like anything else, UNT screwed themselves into a hole and now they are being forced to work themselves out of it.

[PlummMeanGreen]

My answer to E01's question: When we get out of this generational losing streak we've been in for, well, uh, a generation and just start winning and finally convincing all these potential recruits that all the finished NCAA Division 1 FBS top shelf venues they will see on their visits to UNT and the Mean Green Village combined adds up to one thing and subsequently their eventually thinking:

"Hellsbells! I guess North Texas really does want to win!--I think I'll give them another look."

I like the fact that TCU and SMU can still only sign (is it) 30 'ships per year (and many times not even that number) but

moral of all that is............it still leaves an awful amount of great Texas HS football talent out there for us to sign, too.

OK, I hate it as much as the next guy does when we lose recruits to SMU and/or TCU, but you know what (?)............... we've been doing that all my UNT student days and post-student days life and yes I know...............it still doesn't make it any easier to swallow by any means.

GMG!

PS: Some of these early verbals with UNT connections could still change their minds albeit none say they will, right? Best recruiters out there are like effective salesmen..........just dust your feet and move on to the next big possible sale.

Edited June 24, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[greenminer]

Someone enlighten me on this "educating the HS coaches" point about our facilities. As of this post, I'm worried I am reading one more gmg.com wildly misinformed assumption about the recruiting process. Might a lot of HS coaches not know about Apogee? Sure. Does that mean if they DO know, we have a better shot of getting a great athlete to sign? I am skeptical.

Right now, I see us going into year 3 of Apogee, and we still suffer from the same problems we've had since the end of the bowl era: questions on the DL, desperation for playmakers/depth, offseason threads complaining "where are the signees I thought the new stadium would get?"...

What will turn the corner for us? 1) I would believe depth problems might fade away because we're finally at full scholly limit. 2) a 7+ win season would validate everything we've been doing for the last 3 years.

Another way to put this is to look at Even though he is talking about attendance, I think some parallels can be made between what draws crowds and what gets recruits to sign the dotted line (i.e., excitement, value, etc). If you aren't winning, then this facility argument is merely talking about pretty icing on a gross cake, isn't it? Eventually, the polite party-goers figure out they can compliment the host for the fabulous food without having to partake.

Sorry to ruffle feathers! I only mean this as a genuine request. I'm not inclined to believe that year 3 or 4 we are going to turn a new leaf because a few key HS coaches out there finally found out about Apogee. Alas, I'm worried this is a new excuse creeping in; in line with, "it takes 10 years for the word to get out."

Edited June 25, 2013 by greenminer

[greenminer]

Ok well you just described everyone outside of this message board. These camps are going to be the key to turning around recruiting (other than winning). I would bet that at least half of the kids that came for the UNT camp at Apogee had probably never seen it before. Just a guess. But you can bet most HS coaches still remember crappy old Fouts. Getting out to educate them is likely a big part of the battle. Win the coaches over, you can start winning more battles.

Fair enough.

Tell me, with the most recent camps having record numbers, what was the percentage increase over last year and how did that compare with an increase in signees? We both can trust these camps to educate the HS players and coaches about our latest facilities. But I don't think it's going to negate our lack of wins.

We have this 2013 roster, and if we don't win with it you can color me concerned about the long term status of this program.

Also, pie.

Edited June 25, 2013 by greenminer

[ragpicker]

Baby steps...

We are just now dealing with the first class of recruits that have been exposed to UNT's campus camps/workout day at Apogee. People forget that recruiting for some of these kids started in the 7th and 8th grades and got serious their Fr year. Win the HS coaches, then win the players.

Wins help, but UNT was considered such a joke facilities wise we are just now changing that perception. Outside of a kids parent, their coach holds the power in where they go and lets just say we lost most of the area coaches a few years back..

Good point, laxtonto. Your observation gives me hope.

[greenminer]

Please note I said "other than winning." That is a given. But winning 4 titles and going to 4 bowls didn't really help. So it has to be both.

Add to the coaches argument the parent argument. When these kids' parents were in college UNT sucks and so did the facilities. They need to see the facilities too. We have not been on TV much, so not many have seen Apogee. Even when we are on, how many are watching? We are trying to overcome 50 years of prejudice.

Well said. Thank you for clarifying "other than winning."

The last thing I would say is that bowl era staff is about the biggest failure I've ever seen for following up/building on success. Maybe if the media circus around it was handled better (pretend it was the current staff in that situation), we would be better off right now.

That's all "what if", and we just have to play the cards we have.

[DeepGreen]

Dickey's stealth recruiting brought in some pretty good players despite Fouts. This staff should be winning some recruiting battles by now.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Rivals stats say that almost 162,000 kids play Texas high school football.

That is larger numbers than any state in the USA.

For Starters: Why can't we use social media and networking to get the word out about our stadium to TX. HS coaches and beyond, fellow UNT alums and Mean Green fans? Doesn't cost our alma mater a plug nickel for us to do this on our Facebook.

I know, this is a probably a hokey idea but after I post this message I'm going to my personal Facebook page to post what I've posted below the red line:

Hokey? By all means this is hokey but so was the hoola hoop, the super ball and the pet rock and those guys

who invented those back in the day laughed all the way to the bank.

??????? How many Texas HS coaches from your part of Texas know many of of you OR even your Facebook friends? And how many of them have ever even seen a photograph of Apogee? Maybe mostly....none? I rest my case:

______________________________________________________________

I will put this heading in bold letters on my Facebook front page:

So Proud of UNT's Fabulous Apogee Stadium: My College Alma Mater's Fantastic Football Stadium! Check Out This Video!

(If your'e not a UNT alum but rather a MG fan? Then this header for you...............................................................................................................................

So Proud of UNT's Fabulous Apogee Stadium: My Favorite College Team's Fantastic Football Stadium!

(then on your Facebook post a link of the HKS architectural firm's official video of Apogee Stadium as linked below which I still think is a pretty neat video)

End of hokey idea!

Edited June 25, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[GrandGreen]

We can pile on the excuses why NT can't recruit, and completely overlook teams that are doing significantly better with less. McCarney in his first year unfortunately for him made the comment that there was few players here who had other opportunities. To make such a statement he must have thought he had what was necessary to change that. Thus far he has not. Progress has been made but it is very slow and disappointing. Does anyone really think that the hc's at the new Texas twins wouldn't recruit much better than McCarney if they were at NT?

McCarney is a dynamic personality and I think he works ultra hard at improving NT, but for some reason it is obvious this staff is just not connecting that well with recruits. Yes, NT's record is a big factor, but NT should not be at the bottom of Texas recruiting.

[H-towngreen]

Winning. Simple as that. Everything comes with winning. Prestige, TV, attendance, recruits, money. Just win baby

[PlummMeanGreen]

There hasn't been that many wins over TCU and SMU, but when we did beat the Frogs and "Stangs I think

most would agree that we beat them with players they (for the most part) didn't seriously pursue or recruit.

Yes, there are a few exceptions with a few recruits, but very, very few.

GMG!

Edited June 25, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[meangreener]

Here's the other thing, I think that Dickey was more willing to go out and grab players with questionable behavior, grades, etc. I spoke with a professor who was saying that under Dickey most of the players she taught had rap sheets, barely passed class, ended up in jail for a random night every now and then, etc. Dickey was fine taking the underachieving kids in difficult situations while Mac wants the upstanding 4.0 athletes...who also get offered by SMU and TCU.

Say what you want, I just think short of having Petrino or someone like that there is nobody who could recruit better in this situation.

Edited June 25, 2013 by meangreener

[Green P1]

Here's the other thing, I think that Dickey was more willing to go out and grab players with questionable behavior, grades, etc. I spoke with a professor who was saying that under Dickey most of the players she taught had rap sheets, barely passed class, ended up in jail for a random night every now and then, etc. Dickey was fine taking the underachieving kids in difficult situations while Mac wants the upstanding 4.0 athletes...who also get offered by SMU and TCU.

Say what you want, I just think short of having Petrino or someone like that there is nobody who could recruit better in this situation.

Thats silly.

[FirefightnRick]

Dickey's stealth recruiting brought in some pretty good players despite Fouts. This staff should be winning some recruiting battles by now.

Correct, especially considering the AC is what....8 years old now?, but that doesnt fit the convenient excuse train so many here like to ride on.

#kramtheconductor

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

#gobacktothehaterboard

#choochooallaboard

Rick

[Greendylan]

Here's the other thing, I think that Dickey was more willing to go out and grab players with questionable behavior, grades, etc. I spoke with a professor who was saying that under Dickey most of the players she taught had rap sheets, barely passed class, ended up in jail for a random night every now and then, etc. Dickey was fine taking the underachieving kids in difficult situations while Mac wants the upstanding 4.0 athletes...who also get offered by SMU and TCU.

Say what you want, I just think short of having Petrino or someone like that there is nobody who could recruit better in this situation.

I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but the characterization above of Dickey's players is very, very different from my experience, as an instructor, with those guys. Edited June 25, 2013 by Greendylan

[Mean_Green09]

Winning will certainly help the cause. Winning games on TV will help the cause. Beating Texas teams will help the cause. Besides winning I would say exposure to your program.

#1 Win. Winning brings more money into your program

#2 Use extra money to go hire a respected Texas High School coach as your recruiting coordinator and give him a staff of 3 or 4 extra guys (scouting analyst) who all they do is break down film of recruits. Use your recruiting coord ( High School Coach) to reach out to a prospect coaches at a high school. He starts the communication that UNT is interested in a player.

#3 Hire some new PR people for all athletics. I just don't believe we do enough to get the word out about UNT. I want to see better exposure coming from our program. Make our program more accessible.

#4 Change the culture. I’m sick and tired of the complaining and negativity that sometimes surrounds this program. It seem like our fan base is stuck in the past. It’s good to remember what past players have accomplished for UNT, but please stop comparing Scott Hall to what we have at QB. No recruit is going to know who Scott Hall is. It’s time to move on and help UNT dig itself out of this rut. Like Coach Mac said “It’s time to experience a new Mean Green”. IMO he isn’t just talking about the players he is talking about the program as a whole, and as a fan base we contribute to that program.

[UNT90]

It's becoming clearer and clearer that this will only happen after we beat someone that matters during a bowl winning season.

Until then, expect the only teams we compete with to be UTSA and Texas St.

[GOMG2013]

I have been to camps, junior days, recruiting visits, spring games etc over the last 4 from working with local high school kids. Coach Mac is pretty good as far as speaking and selling. He needs the wins now.

If they do not get wins this year, it is very important that he gets the young players in. why? Because playing time is his biggest selling point to a top recruit. Thats about it. The 2013 class needs to have a few guys get some playing time if the season gets bad, so you can sell it to thr 2014 class.

UNT hasnt had much to work with until now. It had started from scratch over the last 3 years. Its pretty much like a fcs team that just moved up. Maybe worse. TV and conference has been announced, but it has not factored in yet and wont be used until the season starts. It may have an effect at the end of the 2014 class