Is LeBron the greatest ever

[TheTastyGreek]

Can we wait until his career is over before we compare him to Bird, Wilt, Russell, Jordan, Kobe, Karl, World B. Free, and Oliver Miller?

2 years in the NBA isn't enough to get George Karl in that conversation, sir. Not even in the Oliver Miller end of the pool.

[KRAM1]

Not even close to the greatest...yet! Time will tell.

[UNT Five&Dime]

Jordan didn't even make his 8th grade team. Let's keep that in mind.

[RAGEMASTER5000]

He would be a lot better if he spent less time complaining to refs. That can be said for a lot of NBA players. I'd be a bigger fan if he toned it down a little though.

[RAGEMASTER5000]

Flops too. He could tone that down a little also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8rGCH_HRdQ

[MDH]

lol

[UNTflyer]

Earning that accolade requires more than statistics and championships. It requires character, longevity, maturity, leadership, work ethic, charisma, loyalty, and sportsmanship. But I think most of all, one has to leave an impression on the game.

Michael Jordan changed basketball on the floor, in the locker rooms, and on television. He left a huge mark on the American culture that has endured long after his retirement. His fans, teammates, and opponents were in awe of him.

Jordan didn't look to stack the deck like Lebron did - he made his teammates better, and he never sought to form an alliance with other super stars to get his championships. Lebron can game the free agent system and sell himself out for 18 championships - that doesn't make him the best ever.

[mgfan]

Clutch huh?

I'll just leave this here:http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=truehoop&id=58575&src=desktop

And what is "clutch"? Is it scoring when your team needs a bucket or making a play so that someone on your team scores when you need a bucket? http://hoopsapedia.m.webs.com/site/mobile?dm_path=%2Flebronvsjordan.htm&fw_sig_api_key=522b0eedffc137c934fc7268582d53a1&fw_sig_potential_abuse=1&fw_sig_social=1&fw_sig_access_token=0814b6e0672f8b52ad946a60d19f507041ddbfc6&fw_sig_permission_level=0&fw_sig_site=51642058&fw_sig_time=1371544459168&fw_sig_premium=1&fw_sig_tier=1&fw_sig=85038716980a0c6810fbbc64e7b57c2c&fw_sig_url=http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/&fw_sig_permissions=none&fw_sig_session_key=83953415437413896153c2a2455608fd07f9d52901d7a233f029b8dfc85df0fc-51642058&fw_sig_is_admin=0&fb_sig_network=fw#3301

And just how much more "clutch" was Jordan?http://chasing23.com/michael-jordan-game-winning-shots/

Wanna compare starting fives? Which Bulls starting five? The one with one of basketball's best defenders of all-time (Pippen) or the later versions with that same defender plus the game's best rebounder (Rodman) plus Kukoc when he was at the top of his game? And which member of that Bullsstarting five was playing on one knee like Wade? Which one of them disappeared completely portions of games like Bosh?

And, yet AGAIN, let's just discount the fact that Lebron is not a score first player by his very nature. Jordan never had his court vision, his passing, his size or his ability to be a versatile defender. Lebron will never, ever, be the prolific scorer that Jordan was. But, if he can continue on this trajectory, he will surpass him as an all around basketball player...and that was the original question was it not?

any of the bulls starting five

Clutch is hitting the shot in a game Six to time to the in the FINALS where is matters most.... Lebron nope......... Side of the back board

Jorad was an amazing all around player not sure if you ever Jordan play

And no that wasn't the question. .... Anything else?

[UNTexas]

LeBron James wants to be like Mike.

[UNTflyer]

Clutch. And look at them... they all know how this is going to end.

Edited June 22, 2013 by UNTflyer

[Green P1]

If Lebron and Mike traded places my favorite player of all time would have a ring while my second wouldn't.

Kemp, Dirk

[UNT90]

It's hard to compare NBA eras, as the game now is a shadow of it's former self. Take, for example, Ray Allen's 3 point shot to tie game 6. In previous eras, that shot would not have counted, as Lewis would have been called for a clear travel (catching the ball and moving both feet to get set for the shot).

Today's NBA is to basketball what wrestling is to the MMA. It's all about the entertainment value and not about the true game of basketball, which isn't played above the collegiate level. The NBA is all about letting the athlete be an athlete (which is why TM will be successful at the next level), and not about the game.

If you like it, more power to you. Just keep in mind that it is entertainment, not basketball.

Edited June 22, 2013 by UNT90

[TheTastyGreek]

Ray Lewis's 3 point shot to tie game 6

He didn't kill no m-f'in lion.

[UNT90]

He didn't kill no m-f'in lion.

Lol!!

Ray Allen.

Fixed.

Edited June 22, 2013 by UNT90

[ADLER]

Is LeBron the greatest ever? No, not close. Not even close to being close.

LeBron is an extremely talented player and may possibly eventually rank up there with the top second teir players like Magic, Bird, Erving, Hakeem, Jordan, Oscar, and Kareem, but he is nowhere near that level at this stage in his career.

The Greatest Ever debate is reserved for those freaks of nature that changed the NBA game the moment they stepped onto the court. Shaq and Wilt. The candidate list ends there.

[CMJ]

Wilt cannot be considered the best ever when Russell completely owned him. I think career titles is an overrated measure in the debate, but not when they competed against each other so many times (Russell was 7-1 in playoff series against Wilt). Russell owned Chamberlain.

Edited June 23, 2013 by CMJ

[greenminer]

Wilt cannot be considered the best ever when Russel completely owned him. I think career titles is an overrated measure in the debate, but not when they competed against each other so many times (Russel was 7-1 in playoff series against Wilt). Russel owned Chamberlain.

How did the rest of their respective teams compare?

[cwb]

How has Dr J not even been mentioned in this conversation? I am not nominating him for father of the year by the way.

[CMJ]

How did the rest of their respective teams compare?

I mean at one point or another, Wilt played with seven different HOF'ers. It is true that for most of his teams, he did not play with them (most of those he played with were near the end of his career).

Edited June 23, 2013 by CMJ

[UNTFan23]

Some perspective: Bill Russell ??????????? MJ ?????? Kobe ????? Tim Duncan ???? D. Wade ??? LeBron ??

— Ron Burgundy (@RonTheAnchorman)

June 22, 2013

Ron Burgundy don't lie.

[TheTastyGreek]

Ron Burgundy don't lie.

When Bill Russell won his first championship, there were 8 teams in the league. The Lakers were in Minnesota, and 3/8ths of the league was in Fort Wayne, Rochester, and Syracuse. His Celtics won the finals in a 7 game thriller against the St. Louis Hawks. Four of the seven games in the series were decided by 2 points or fewer. Fun fact? The Hawks were not integrated. All white guys.

When he won his last championship, it was in an expansion year that took the league up to a whopping 14 teams. That's half as many as Michael Jordan had to overcome to win his first title.

Not trying to diminish Bill Russell... But pointing to rings as a way of calling him the definitive greatest is ridiculous without appreciating context. Because if Michael Jordan or LeBron played any seasons against 7 other teams that looked like the Washington Generals... They would have a hell of a lot more championships, too.

Tell Ron about this stat -

First Round Playoff Exits:

Michael Jordan - 3

Bill Russell - 1

LeBron James - 0

Disclaimer: I don't much care for LeBron James.

[CMJ]

When Bill Russell won his first championship, there were 8 teams in the league. The Lakers were in Minnesota, and 3/8ths of the league was in Fort Wayne, Rochester, and Syracuse. His Celtics won the finals in a 7 game thriller against the St. Louis Hawks. Four of the seven games in the series were decided by 2 points or fewer. Fun fact? The Hawks were not integrated. All white guys.

When he won his last championship, it was in an expansion year that took the league up to a whopping 14 teams. That's half as many as Michael Jordan had to overcome to win his first title.

Not trying to diminish Bill Russell... But pointing to rings as a way of calling him the definitive greatest is ridiculous without appreciating context. Because if Michael Jordan or LeBron played any seasons against 7 other teams that looked like the Washington Generals... They would have a hell of a lot more championships, too.

Tell Ron about this stat -

First Round Playoff Exits:

Michael Jordan - 3

Bill Russell - 1

LeBron James - 0

Disclaimer: I don't much care for LeBron James.

I do get what you're saying and I mostly agree.

However to play devil's advocate for a second...

Competing against fewer teams is a double edged sword. You could argue it would be tougher to win because everyone knows everyone much more (tendencies, etc). Also, the talent would not be as diluted throughout numerous teams. Imagine if today's NBA only had 8-14 teams how loaded those teams would be.

Edited June 25, 2013 by CMJ

[emmitt01]

Ron Burgundy don't lie.

That graphic becomes less impressive if you acknowledge that it includes MJ's entire career...and that age 28 both he and Lebron had two rings.

[emmitt01]

I do get what you're saying and I mostly agree.

However to play devil's advocate for a second...

Competing against fewer teams is a double edged sword. You could argue it would be tougher to win because everyone knows everyone much more (tendencies, etc). Also, the talent would not be as diluted throughout numerous teams. Imagine if today's NBA only had 8-14 teams how loaded those teams would be.

If some of the teams had ZERO black players? I'd like my chances if I were Lebron, or MJ'S, or Kobe...or Muggsy Bogues.

[Mean Green 93-98]

That graphic becomes less impressive if you acknowledge that it includes MJ's entire career...and that age 28 both he and Lebron had two rings.

Actually, MJ got his first ring when he was 28. But he had also spent three years in college, so it took him fewer years in the NBA to get to 2 rings than it's taken Lebron.