Is LeBron the greatest ever

TheTastyGreek · June 21, 2013

Can we wait until his career is over before we compare him to Bird, Wilt, Russell, Jordan, Kobe, Karl, World B. Free, and Oliver Miller?

2 years in the NBA isn't enough to get George Karl in that conversation, sir. Not even in the Oliver Miller end of the pool.

KRAM1 · June 21, 2013

Not even close to the greatest...yet! Time will tell.

UNT Five&Dime · June 21, 2013

Jordan didn't even make his 8th grade team. Let's keep that in mind.

RAGEMASTER5000 · June 21, 2013

He would be a lot better if he spent less time complaining to refs. That can be said for a lot of NBA players. I'd be a bigger fan if he toned it down a little though.

RAGEMASTER5000 · June 21, 2013

Flops too. He could tone that down a little also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8rGCH_HRdQ

MDH · June 21, 2013

lol

UNTflyer · June 22, 2013

Earning that accolade requires more than statistics and championships. It requires character, longevity, maturity, leadership, work ethic, charisma, loyalty, and sportsmanship. But I think most of all, one has to leave an impression on the game.

Michael Jordan changed basketball on the floor, in the locker rooms, and on television. He left a huge mark on the American culture that has endured long after his retirement. His fans, teammates, and opponents were in awe of him.

Jordan didn't look to stack the deck like Lebron did - he made his teammates better, and he never sought to form an alliance with other super stars to get his championships. Lebron can game the free agent system and sell himself out for 18 championships - that doesn't make him the best ever.

mgfan · June 22, 2013

Clutch huh?
I'll just leave this here:http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=truehoop&id=58575&src=desktop
And what is "clutch"? Is it scoring when your team needs a bucket or making a play so that someone on your team scores when you need a bucket? http://hoopsapedia.m.webs.com/site/mobile?dm_path=%2Flebronvsjordan.htm&fw_sig_api_key=522b0eedffc137c934fc7268582d53a1&fw_sig_potential_abuse=1&fw_sig_social=1&fw_sig_access_token=0814b6e0672f8b52ad946a60d19f507041ddbfc6&fw_sig_permission_level=0&fw_sig_site=51642058&fw_sig_time=1371544459168&fw_sig_premium=1&fw_sig_tier=1&fw_sig=85038716980a0c6810fbbc64e7b57c2c&fw_sig_url=http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/&fw_sig_permissions=none&fw_sig_session_key=83953415437413896153c2a2455608fd07f9d52901d7a233f029b8dfc85df0fc-51642058&fw_sig_is_admin=0&fb_sig_network=fw#3301
And just how much more "clutch" was Jordan?http://chasing23.com/michael-jordan-game-winning-shots/
Wanna compare starting fives? Which Bulls starting five? The one with one of basketball's best defenders of all-time (Pippen) or the later versions with that same defender plus the game's best rebounder (Rodman) plus Kukoc when he was at the top of his game? And which member of that Bullsstarting five was playing on one knee like Wade? Which one of them disappeared completely portions of games like Bosh?
And, yet AGAIN, let's just discount the fact that Lebron is not a score first player by his very nature. Jordan never had his court vision, his passing, his size or his ability to be a versatile defender. Lebron will never, ever, be the prolific scorer that Jordan was. But, if he can continue on this trajectory, he will surpass him as an all around basketball player...and that was the original question was it not?

any of the bulls starting five

Clutch is hitting the shot in a game Six to time to the in the FINALS where is matters most.... Lebron nope......... Side of the back board

Jorad was an amazing all around player not sure if you ever Jordan play

And no that wasn't the question. .... Anything else?

UNTexas · June 22, 2013

LeBron James wants to be like Mike.

UNTflyer · June 22, 2013

Clutch. And look at them... they all know how this is going to end.

Michael_Jordan_Last_Shot_vs_Jazz_Basketb

Edited June 22, 2013 by UNTflyer

Green P1 · June 22, 2013

If Lebron and Mike traded places my favorite player of all time would have a ring while my second wouldn't.

Kemp, Dirk

UNT90 · June 22, 2013

It's hard to compare NBA eras, as the game now is a shadow of it's former self. Take, for example, Ray Allen's 3 point shot to tie game 6. In previous eras, that shot would not have counted, as Lewis would have been called for a clear travel (catching the ball and moving both feet to get set for the shot).

Today's NBA is to basketball what wrestling is to the MMA. It's all about the entertainment value and not about the true game of basketball, which isn't played above the collegiate level. The NBA is all about letting the athlete be an athlete (which is why TM will be successful at the next level), and not about the game.

If you like it, more power to you. Just keep in mind that it is entertainment, not basketball.

Edited June 22, 2013 by UNT90

TheTastyGreek · June 22, 2013

Ray Lewis's 3 point shot to tie game 6

He didn't kill no m-f'in lion.

UNT90 · June 22, 2013

He didn't kill no m-f'in lion.

Lol!!

Ray Allen.

Fixed.

Edited June 22, 2013 by UNT90

ADLER · June 22, 2013

Is LeBron the greatest ever? No, not close. Not even close to being close.

LeBron is an extremely talented player and may possibly eventually rank up there with the top second teir players like Magic, Bird, Erving, Hakeem, Jordan, Oscar, and Kareem, but he is nowhere near that level at this stage in his career.

The Greatest Ever debate is reserved for those freaks of nature that changed the NBA game the moment they stepped onto the court. Shaq and Wilt. The candidate list ends there.

CMJ · June 22, 2013

Wilt cannot be considered the best ever when Russell completely owned him. I think career titles is an overrated measure in the debate, but not when they competed against each other so many times (Russell was 7-1 in playoff series against Wilt). Russell owned Chamberlain.

Edited June 23, 2013 by CMJ

greenminer · June 22, 2013

Wilt cannot be considered the best ever when Russel completely owned him. I think career titles is an overrated measure in the debate, but not when they competed against each other so many times (Russel was 7-1 in playoff series against Wilt). Russel owned Chamberlain.

How did the rest of their respective teams compare?

cwb · June 23, 2013

How has Dr J not even been mentioned in this conversation? I am not nominating him for father of the year by the way.

CMJ · June 23, 2013

How did the rest of their respective teams compare?

I mean at one point or another, Wilt played with seven different HOF'ers. It is true that for most of his teams, he did not play with them (most of those he played with were near the end of his career).

Edited June 23, 2013 by CMJ

UNTFan23 · June 25, 2013

Some perspective: Bill Russell ??????????? MJ ?????? Kobe ????? Tim Duncan ???? D. Wade ??? LeBron ??
— Ron Burgundy (@RonTheAnchorman)
June 22, 2013

Ron Burgundy don't lie.

TheTastyGreek · June 25, 2013

Ron Burgundy don't lie.

When Bill Russell won his first championship, there were 8 teams in the league. The Lakers were in Minnesota, and 3/8ths of the league was in Fort Wayne, Rochester, and Syracuse. His Celtics won the finals in a 7 game thriller against the St. Louis Hawks. Four of the seven games in the series were decided by 2 points or fewer. Fun fact? The Hawks were not integrated. All white guys.

When he won his last championship, it was in an expansion year that took the league up to a whopping 14 teams. That's half as many as Michael Jordan had to overcome to win his first title.

Not trying to diminish Bill Russell... But pointing to rings as a way of calling him the definitive greatest is ridiculous without appreciating context. Because if Michael Jordan or LeBron played any seasons against 7 other teams that looked like the Washington Generals... They would have a hell of a lot more championships, too.

Tell Ron about this stat -

First Round Playoff Exits:

Michael Jordan - 3

Bill Russell - 1

LeBron James - 0

Disclaimer: I don't much care for LeBron James.

CMJ · June 25, 2013

When Bill Russell won his first championship, there were 8 teams in the league. The Lakers were in Minnesota, and 3/8ths of the league was in Fort Wayne, Rochester, and Syracuse. His Celtics won the finals in a 7 game thriller against the St. Louis Hawks. Four of the seven games in the series were decided by 2 points or fewer. Fun fact? The Hawks were not integrated. All white guys.

When he won his last championship, it was in an expansion year that took the league up to a whopping 14 teams. That's half as many as Michael Jordan had to overcome to win his first title.

Not trying to diminish Bill Russell... But pointing to rings as a way of calling him the definitive greatest is ridiculous without appreciating context. Because if Michael Jordan or LeBron played any seasons against 7 other teams that looked like the Washington Generals... They would have a hell of a lot more championships, too.

Tell Ron about this stat -

First Round Playoff Exits:

Michael Jordan - 3

Bill Russell - 1

LeBron James - 0

Disclaimer: I don't much care for LeBron James.

I do get what you're saying and I mostly agree.

However to play devil's advocate for a second...

Competing against fewer teams is a double edged sword. You could argue it would be tougher to win because everyone knows everyone much more (tendencies, etc). Also, the talent would not be as diluted throughout numerous teams. Imagine if today's NBA only had 8-14 teams how loaded those teams would be.

Edited June 25, 2013 by CMJ

emmitt01 · June 25, 2013

Ron Burgundy don't lie.

That graphic becomes less impressive if you acknowledge that it includes MJ's entire career...and that age 28 both he and Lebron had two rings.

emmitt01 · June 25, 2013

I do get what you're saying and I mostly agree.

However to play devil's advocate for a second...

Competing against fewer teams is a double edged sword. You could argue it would be tougher to win because everyone knows everyone much more (tendencies, etc). Also, the talent would not be as diluted throughout numerous teams. Imagine if today's NBA only had 8-14 teams how loaded those teams would be.

If some of the teams had ZERO black players? I'd like my chances if I were Lebron, or MJ'S, or Kobe...or Muggsy Bogues.

Mean Green 93-98 · June 25, 2013

That graphic becomes less impressive if you acknowledge that it includes MJ's entire career...and that age 28 both he and Lebron had two rings.

Actually, MJ got his first ring when he was 28. But he had also spent three years in college, so it took him fewer years in the NBA to get to 2 rings than it's taken Lebron.