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Is LeBron the greatest ever

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emmitt01
emmitt01

It's pointless to argue his merits right now. I remember personally (and seeing it done by a great many others) downplaying Jordan's greatness when he was still playing. It's a natural human instinct

UNTflyer
UNTflyer

Earning that accolade requires more than statistics and championships. It requires character, longevity, maturity, leadership, work ethic, charisma, loyalty, and sportsmanship. But I think most of a

CMJ
CMJ

He wouldn't make my top 5 yet. Hell, I'm not sure he'd make my top ten. People always just wanna focus on the best player of today (which he definitely is!) and they don't look at all the history of

CMJ Grand Master

CMJ

Posted
Posted (edited)

He wouldn't make my top 5 yet. Hell, I'm not sure he'd make my top ten. People always just wanna focus on the best player of today (which he definitely is!) and they don't look at all the history of the game.

Edited by CMJ
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mgfan Community Regular

mgfan

Posted
Posted

I think you can make a case for Durant. I believe durnat has better vision on the court,,is a better pure shooter and better down low. Put Durant, Dirk, Kobe, Ducan and maybe even Love in place of Lebron and will you get different results? I have to think not. And best overall pleaseeeeeee..... Jordan never went to a game 7 in the finals for a reason. 1. Michael 2. Magic ( he could play any where, even point at 6'9” (?).

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mgfan Community Regular

mgfan

Posted
Posted

He wouldn't make my top 5 yet. Hell, I'm not sure he'd make my top ten. People always just wanna focus on the best player of today (which he definitely is!) and they don't look at all the history of the game.

Your exactly right. Everyone was saying the same thing about Kobe a few years back

JesseMartin Explorer

JesseMartin

Posted
Posted

LeBron is definitely at the top of his, and the, game right now. But I agree that others have been better before...if he keeps getting better, then maybe, yes. Wilt, Michael, Magic, Larry, Kobe, and possibly a few others in terms of their overall game and peak periods would top him at the moment as far as I'm concerned.

glick1980 Community Regular

glick1980

Posted
Posted

No he is not. He was bailed out in game 6. He had two turnovers in the last minute and clanged a 3 off the backboard, but lucky for him Pop didn't have Duncan in there to rebound so he got another shot and made it, then he badly missed another 3, but Bosh again got the rebound with no Duncan to contend with and Allen made a 3. Could you ever imagine a team daring MJ to shoot jumpshots the way SA dared LeBron?

CMJ Grand Master

CMJ

Posted
Posted

Could you ever imagine a team daring MJ to shoot jumpshots the way SA dared LeBron?

Yes, because it happened. Teams usually got burned (not always - people act like he threw down 50 points a night, he wasn't THAT good, but the further removed from his greatness the more his legend grows, which is the opposite of many great players who we devalue as the years roll on), but yeah it happened. You have to figure out what you're gonna let a player like that have.

I am sure Jordan would have seen all sorts of zones too if he'd been born later, but by the time they were legalized I think he was already with the Wizards.

emmitt01 Grand Master

emmitt01

Posted
Posted

It's pointless to argue his merits right now. I remember personally (and seeing it done by a great many others) downplaying Jordan's greatness when he was still playing. It's a natural human instinct to compare more favorably those who are no longer playing and whose stats (and not mistakes) are all we have to look back on.

Kevin Love? Dirk? Ridiculous. San Antonio sweeps a Heat team with either of those players as the focal point (and in Love's case he wouldn't even be the focal point).

Jordan never lost in the Finals. And Lebron has never lost in the first round, Jordan can't say that. Lebron has , quite literally, led a team to the Finals single-handedly. MJ can't say that. Nor can Magic or Bird.

People want to bang on Lebron for going to Miami to join the Heat. Yet nobody wants to bang on Kobe for having one of the most dominant big men in NBA history added to his roster to get him over the hump (and talk about being "bailed out"). Put Shaq in the post for Miami, and you can even subtract D-Wade, and we're talking three peat right now wondering if they're headed for a fourth. You think Lebron wouldn't have liked to have been drafted and added to a team with the NBA's all-tine leading scorer (Kareem) and a great supporting cast? It's an absolute insult to players like Parish, McHale, Pippen, rodman, Horace Grant, etc to conveniently forget that the legends of yesteryear had a supporting cast (an all-star supporting cast) too.

Durant? Really? Sure, he's a prolific scorer. When Tony Parker is shredding your defense and forcing double teams can you put KD on him? Because that's exactly what Spoelstra did with Lebron. Would KD have been down on the block swatting Tim Duncan shots? Nope. Lebron may not be able to guard all five positions like Magic, but he can guard four. And when multiple former NBA players call Lebron the "best passing big man of all time" are they forgetting that Durant is tall too?

He's not the best of all time. He may not ever get there. But I'll sure as hell take the word of Magic Johnson (last night) and Scottie Pippen when they say he has a chance to get there over the vocal masses on fan boards.

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glick1980 Community Regular

glick1980

Posted
Posted

Yes, because it happened. Teams usually got burned (not always - people act like he threw down 50 points a night, he wasn't THAT good, but the further removed from his greatness the more his legend grows, which is the opposite of many great players who we devalue as the years roll on), but yeah it happened. You have to figure out what you're gonna let a player like that have.

I am sure Jordan would have seen all sorts of zones too if he'd been born later, but by the time they were legalized I think he was already with the Wizards.

I remember MJ getting a little space on 3's (and he was a bad 3point shooter until late is his career), but you can't tell me people were playing 5 feet off him when he was 15 feet away from the rim. When he had the ball on the elbow nobody gave him space, he was an outstanding mid-range jumpshooter.

glick1980 Community Regular

glick1980

Posted
Posted

It's pointless to argue his merits right now. I remember personally (and seeing it done by a great many others) downplaying Jordan's greatness when he was still playing. It's a natural human instinct to compare more favorably those who are no longer playing and whose stats (and not mistakes) are all we have to look back on.

Kevin Love? Dirk? Ridiculous. San Antonio sweeps a Heat team with either of those players as the focal point (and in Love's case he wouldn't even be the focal point).

Jordan never lost in the Finals. And Lebron has never lost in the first round, Jordan can't say that. Lebron has , quite literally, led a team to the Finals single-handedly. MJ can't say that. Nor can Magic or Bird.

People want to bang on Lebron for going to Miami to join the Heat. Yet nobody wants to bang on Kobe for having one of the most dominant big men in NBA history added to his roster to get him over the hump (and talk about being "bailed out"). Put Shaq in the post for Miami, and you can even subtract D-Wade, and we're talking three peat right now wondering if they're headed for a fourth. You think Lebron wouldn't have liked to have been drafted and added to a team with the NBA's all-tine leading scorer (Kareem) and a great supporting cast? It's an absolute insult to players like Parish, McHale, Pippen, rodman, Horace Grant, etc to conveniently forget that the legends of yesteryear had a supporting cast (an all-star supporting cast) too.

Durant? Really? Sure, he's a prolific scorer. When Tony Parker is shredding your defense and forcing double teams can you put KD on him? Because that's exactly what Spoelstra did with Lebron. Would KD have been down on the block swatting Tim Duncan shots? Nope. Lebron may not be able to guard all five positions like Magic, but he can guard four. And when multiple former NBA players call Lebron the "best passing big man of all time" are they forgetting that Durant is tall too?

He's not the best of all time. He may not ever get there. But I'll sure as hell take the word of Magic Johnson (last night) and Scottie Pippen when they say he has a chance to get there over the vocal masses on fan boards.

LeBron did defend Parker well and stopped Chicago's Rose a few years ago doing the same thing. But they can't shoot. Jason Terry freaking torched him. What would someone like Ray Allen or Reggie Miller do to him in their primes?

emmitt01 Grand Master

emmitt01

Posted
Posted

I remember MJ getting a little space on 3's (and he was a bad 3point shooter until late is his career), but you can't tell me people were playing 5 feet off him when he was 15 feet away from the rim. When he had the ball on the elbow nobody gave him space, he was an outstanding mid-range jumpshooter.

You're also confusing styles. Jordan was looking to score first, dish second. Lebron spent (basically) five games and three quarters trying to find a way to pass through and around a San Antonio team in a zone. When he saw that he had to shoot over it he torched them for 37. Amazing how people forget he had one of the NBA's best jump shooting percentages this season.

But, again, when the agenda is to pick him apart it's easy to fall back on "MJ never did this or that". Lebron has never, not once, said he was MJ. He's a completely different kind of ball player.

emmitt01 Grand Master

emmitt01

Posted
Posted

LeBron did defend Parker well and stopped Chicago's Rose a few years ago doing the same thing. But they can't shoot. Jason Terry freaking torched him. What would someone like Ray Allen or Reggie Miller do to him in their primes?

I don't know. And MJ never had to find out either...Pippen took care of that.

UNTFan23 Rising Star

UNTFan23

Posted
Posted

LeBron is as worthy of acting awards as he is sports awards. The guy knows how to flop and look good doing it.

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mgfan Community Regular

mgfan

Posted
Posted

Sweep? You must be crazy. Also, I sure don't remember Jordan ever getting shut down in the finals ( where is matters most) by a guy like Deshawn Stevenson. And lets talk about being clutch and good under pressure...Jordan best all time Lebron top 100(?). I won't ever say Lebron made the wrong move by going to Miami, but lets not compare the two teams starting 5. Pretty easy to see Miami has the better starting.

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emmitt01 Grand Master

emmitt01

Posted
Posted

Sweep? You must be crazy. Also, I sure don't remember Jordan ever getting shut down in the finals ( where is matters most) by a guy like Deshawn Stevenson. And lets talk about being clutch and good under pressure...Jordan best all time Lebron top 100(?). I won't ever say Lebron made the wrong move by going to Miami, but lets not compare the two teams starting 5. Pretty easy to see Miami has the better starting.

Clutch huh?

I'll just leave this here:

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=truehoop&id=58575&src=desktop

And what is "clutch"? Is it scoring when your team needs a bucket or making a play so that someone on your team scores when you need a bucket?

http://hoopsapedia.m.webs.com/site/mobile?dm_path=%2Flebronvsjordan.htm&fw_sig_api_key=522b0eedffc137c934fc7268582d53a1&fw_sig_potential_abuse=1&fw_sig_social=1&fw_sig_access_token=0814b6e0672f8b52ad946a60d19f507041ddbfc6&fw_sig_permission_level=0&fw_sig_site=51642058&fw_sig_time=1371544459168&fw_sig_premium=1&fw_sig_tier=1&fw_sig=85038716980a0c6810fbbc64e7b57c2c&fw_sig_url=http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/&fw_sig_permissions=none&fw_sig_session_key=83953415437413896153c2a2455608fd07f9d52901d7a233f029b8dfc85df0fc-51642058&fw_sig_is_admin=0&fb_sig_network=fw#3301

And just how much more "clutch" was Jordan?

http://chasing23.com/michael-jordan-game-winning-shots/

Wanna compare starting fives? Which Bulls starting five? The one with one of basketball's best defenders of all-time (Pippen) or the later versions with that same defender plus the game's best rebounder (Rodman) plus Kukoc when he was at the top of his game? And which member of that Bullsstarting five was playing on one knee like Wade? Which one of them disappeared completely for portions of games like Bosh?

And, yet AGAIN, let's just discount the fact that Lebron is not a score first player by his very nature. Jordan never had his court vision, his passing, his size or his ability to be a versatile defender. Lebron will never, ever, be the prolific scorer that Jordan was. But, if he can continue on this trajectory, he will surpass him as an all around basketball player...and that was the original question was it not?

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CMJ Grand Master

CMJ

Posted
Posted

Lebron is more like Magic than Jordan. Similar sized, Lebron scores more, but isn't quite the passer Johnson was. Still, I think they are at least comparable given their styles of play. Jordan and Lebron aren't really just because they play so differently. It'd be like trying to compare the games of Jabbar and Bird.

TheTastyGreek Collaborator

TheTastyGreek

Posted
Posted

Now now Tasty. We all know the true greats aren't carrying a lunch pail...

Anyone without a lunch pail makes me nervous and uncomfortable.

Pete Maravich, though? I feel at ease with his greatness. Because of his cerebral approach and his industrial size lunch pail.

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