C-USA Should Try for a Big Steal

[NM Green]

You have to think crazy and big to even begin to move in that direction so I love this thread. I do not see this happening necessarily, but it triggered another thought. What if we went and got BYU. The natural instinctive thinking is to lure one of the AAC back but they are too close in competition to us. They are swimming inside the fish bowl with us. But go get the big fish in the MWC territory. Let them bring their network with them ala Texas in the Big 12. Salt Lake City is an easy destination to get to for all of our major market schools and BYU now gets lucrative recruiting territory in Florida, Louisiana, Texas and Tennessee. They get exposure out west and in the fertile south.

Until we create our Big Boy like the MWC has in Boise, lets go get a free agent. BYU to CUSA!

GMG

[Harry]

Another thought is the service academies. Air Force sees the advantages of being in a conference so perhaps Army might reconsider C-USA in its current configuration??

[PlummMeanGreen]

Are conference championships the only way to judge how a team performs?

MS State has finished ranked twice (as recently as 2010) and has been to bowls 5 times since 2000.

ISU has been to 8 bowls since 2000.

So would you prefer UNT's 4 SunBelt championships and 4 bowls or ISU's 0 Big 12 championships but 8 bowls? UNT's 4 championships or MS State's 2 top 25 finishes?

won

And just to show I'm not being biased against UNT, as a UH fan, I actually prefer our #14 ranking in 2011 to our conference championship in 2006 where we didn't sniff the top 25 all season. There's much more prestige and respect for a top 25 ranking than there was for a CUSA championship.

This in the above bold black!

Still amazing that UH's #14 ranking did not translate into a CUSA championship. USM won the battle but CUSA lost the war that year.

Gang of 5 conferences must PR the sportswriters in their respective regions to the extent that most years their championship teams get Top 25 rankings. Seems to me that the MAC has done that better than anyone especially with their eastern sportswriters. They also had a team in the Orange Bowl last Fall, too, now didn't they?

GMG!

Edited June 21, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[untjim1995]

Back in 2008, if IIRC, TCU and Boise State played each other in the Poinsettia Bowl in San Diego. It was a matchup of top ten teams from the MWC and the WAC back then. The bowl ended up with TCU winning 17-16 in one of the best bowl games of that season. And both teams made less bowl money than Baylor did at going 3-9 in the BIg XII and staying home in Waco.

Baylor has been the ultimate tick on the hound for years. Even with their recent football success, they have accomplished so much less than TCU has since the SWC disbanded. But Baylor fans would revolt if they get left behind one day by Texas, OU, Tech, etc. They will look just like SMU does today in that their fans would just not care enough to go watch their team play teams that they view as spares. SMU fans remember games against Texas, Arkansas, Texas A&M, and Baylor as conference mates. They don't give a damn about any of the teams in the conferences they have played in since the SWC breakup, except for TCU and maybe UH. Baylor will be the same way.

And so would every other non-traditional power. The SEC schools are the best example of feeling included. Vandy fans or Ole Miss fans will chant SEC-SEC-SEC during bowl games even though they are beating some non-AQ team in the SEC's 10th bowl spot just to show their brethren at Bama and Florida and Georgia that they are in the club. That will never change.

College football conferences are a ladder. Its the SEC, B1G, Pac 12, BIg XII and ACC, MWC, AAC, MAC and CUSA, then the SBC, and FCS. The top 5 make too much money for their universities to change their loyalties by dropping down the foodchain. You look at A&M and the prestige of going to and winning in the SEC has already made their university so much money by leaving behind the Bevo 12. Now, Texas A&M will make so much more money once the SEC network gets going and the have effectively blocked the huge state of Texas off for themselves by being the only SEC school in the state. Could Texas A&M have dominated the old CUSA or MWC? Absolutely, since TCU showed that was achievable by a Texas school. But the revenues from that success in that lower-level league would have never even eclipsed what a losing season in the Big XII did. Universities need funding that is predictable every year--the AQs have that, for their ADs and their universities. No one would ever give that up just to try and win more games in football against weaker opponenets.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Yet untjim95, it seems the NCAA Big Boys are even trying to legislate out any future Cinderellas in the future NCAA as I interpret things as a confirmed NCAA enthusiast but still....novice.

GMG!

Edited June 21, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[Greendylan]

Even if somehow the long term numbers did add up to more profit by leaving a major conference to create a dynasty in a mid-major league, it still wouldn't happen. Every single administrator, athletic department employee, and board member could all agree that it's a smart move monetarily, but they wouldn't do it. Alumns, students, and most importantly big donors would absolutely revolt if a school like say Mississippi State willingly left behind a conference with Ole Miss to become colleagues with Southern Miss.

[untjim1995]

Yet untjim95, it seems the NCAA Big Boys are even trying to legislate out any future Cinderellas in the future NCAA as I interpret things as a confirmed NCAA enthusiast but still....novice.

GMG!

I'm actually at a point where I wouldn't mind if the NCAA did that. Its not a fair fight to have 124 teams lumped as FBS, but only 66 of them get even additional perks as FBS, and from that 66, the same 30-35 teams are always the ones that get the preferantial treatment from their conferences, the TV networks, and college football fanbases.

North Texas has not shown the capability or the will to fight for long-term success in the college football world of today. With the noted exception of Fry's tenure, we haven't registered as a blip on anyone's radar because our support has been so poor. Some alums, like yourself, have seen us be a solid program for a few sustained years, but since college football fully integrated, those 4 years out of 40+ don't show anyone that we should be included in the Big Boys Club.

When the Great Schism occurs again, and a new merger occurs between non-AQs and high level FCS teams, we will see names in that new subdivsion that will surprise a lot of folks. The SMUs of the world are going to have to decide if college football is something they want to keep, since their alums are already turning up their collective noses at the opponents they now play against in their conference, versus their old SWC days. The same will go for almost every non-AQ school not named Boise State, BYU, Cincinnatti, Uconn, UH, and a few others. At North Texas, I would be willing to bet that Apogee would still get a good crowd if we played SMU or Tulsa or UTEP as a conference game, even if it was a glorified 1-aa team. Teams like Tech and Baylor may not be safe, either, if other conferences in the AQ combine and only take your top notch schools. Schools like Wake Forest and Duke may very well find themselves left out, too. But the overall rality is that schools like Ohio State and Texas and Alabama are always going to dominate the college football landscape with their plethora of resources. Let those semi-pro, NFL-lite programs go off and be feeder schools to the big leagues if they want. For those of us who still love college athletes and want to keep the game in some form of amateuristic, our school will always be able to do that, assuming they want to actually keep playing football in the future.

[North Texas Shep]

Worst Idea Ever!

[JesseMartin]

The interesting thing about this is that of the coaches that have come out in favor of the creation of a new tier recently, one of them said something about basketball being easier for Cinderella teams. So I would wonder if the new conferences would be football only, and expect their old conference mates to keep playing basketball with them, or if they would have these new conferences for all sports. Because again if we're talking about only football, you would be more likely to see them leave Duke, KY, Vandy, etc. out of the mix.

[GL2Greatness]

Back in 2008, if IIRC, TCU and Boise State played each other in the Poinsettia Bowl in San Diego. It was a matchup of top ten teams from the MWC and the WAC back then. The bowl ended up with TCU winning 17-16 in one of the best bowl games of that season. And both teams made less bowl money than Baylor did at going 3-9 in the BIg XII and staying home in Waco.

Baylor has been the ultimate tick on the hound for years. Even with their recent football success, they have accomplished so much less than TCU has since the SWC disbanded. But Baylor fans would revolt if they get left behind one day by Texas, OU, Tech, etc. They will look just like SMU does today in that their fans would just not care enough to go watch their team play teams that they view as spares. SMU fans remember games against Texas, Arkansas, Texas A&M, and Baylor as conference mates. They don't give a damn about any of the teams in the conferences they have played in since the SWC breakup, except for TCU and maybe UH. Baylor will be the same way.

And so would every other non-traditional power. The SEC schools are the best example of feeling included. Vandy fans or Ole Miss fans will chant SEC-SEC-SEC during bowl games even though they are beating some non-AQ team in the SEC's 10th bowl spot just to show their brethren at Bama and Florida and Georgia that they are in the club. That will never change.

College football conferences are a ladder. Its the SEC, B1G, Pac 12, BIg XII and ACC, MWC, AAC, MAC and CUSA, then the SBC, and FCS. The top 5 make too much money for their universities to change their loyalties by dropping down the foodchain. You look at A&M and the prestige of going to and winning in the SEC has already made their university so much money by leaving behind the Bevo 12. Now, Texas A&M will make so much more money once the SEC network gets going and the have effectively blocked the huge state of Texas off for themselves by being the only SEC school in the state. Could Texas A&M have dominated the old CUSA or MWC? Absolutely, since TCU showed that was achievable by a Texas school. But the revenues from that success in that lower-level league would have never even eclipsed what a losing season in the Big XII did. Universities need funding that is predictable every year--the AQs have that, for their ADs and their universities. No one would ever give that up just to try and win more games in football against weaker opponenets.

I'm actually at a point where I wouldn't mind if the NCAA did that. Its not a fair fight to have 124 teams lumped as FBS, but only 66 of them get even additional perks as FBS, and from that 66, the same 30-35 teams are always the ones that get the preferantial treatment from their conferences, the TV networks, and college football fanbases.

North Texas has not shown the capability or the will to fight for long-term success in the college football world of today. With the noted exception of Fry's tenure, we haven't registered as a blip on anyone's radar because our support has been so poor. Some alums, like yourself, have seen us be a solid program for a few sustained years, but since college football fully integrated, those 4 years out of 40+ don't show anyone that we should be included in the Big Boys Club.

When the Great Schism occurs again, and a new merger occurs between non-AQs and high level FCS teams, we will see names in that new subdivsion that will surprise a lot of folks. The SMUs of the world are going to have to decide if college football is something they want to keep, since their alums are already turning up their collective noses at the opponents they now play against in their conference, versus their old SWC days. The same will go for almost every non-AQ school not named Boise State, BYU, Cincinnatti, Uconn, UH, and a few others. At North Texas, I would be willing to bet that Apogee would still get a good crowd if we played SMU or Tulsa or UTEP as a conference game, even if it was a glorified 1-aa team. Teams like Tech and Baylor may not be safe, either, if other conferences in the AQ combine and only take your top notch schools. Schools like Wake Forest and Duke may very well find themselves left out, too. But the overall rality is that schools like Ohio State and Texas and Alabama are always going to dominate the college football landscape with their plethora of resources. Let those semi-pro, NFL-lite programs go off and be feeder schools to the big leagues if they want. For those of us who still love college athletes and want to keep the game in some form of amateuristic, our school will always be able to do that, assuming they want to actually keep playing football in the future.

just so much nonsense in your post you just completely ignore all reality and spew garbage that tries to somehow get SMU, Baylor, Tech and a few other teams down in the dumpster with north Texas

1. how has A&M left Texas behind when their magnificent season landed them 3rd in their division in the SEC, they did not come close to winning the division, they did not play in a CCG, and they did not play in a BCS game, they still have not played in a BCS game since the late nineties, they have never won a BCS game and they have not sniffed a national championship in football since 1939

and while they did finish in the top 5 they have done that one time since 1956 which was last year (and something that Texas has done 5 times since 2000) they still bring in 60-70 million per year less than Texas in total athletics revenue and they are busy screaming WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP in Johnny Football's ear so often he is ready to GTFO of College station right now

in big boy conferences results on the field actually matter not what reporters write or what people on message boards that are trying to support their foolish visions believe

2. if you want to talk about football alone then Baylor has done less than TCU, but if you include mens BB, womens BB, and Baseball (other sports matter to major conferences even if they do not matter as much as football and mens BB especially brings in NCAA dollars) then Baylor has been very competitive in the Big 12 and well more than TCU including of course what TCU did in other conferences

3. trying to say that schools would compete in the CUSA or the MWC just by dropping down may or may not be a reality......you can't make the argument that A&M being in the SEC and coming in 3rd in their division and not playing in a BCS game somehow makes them a powerhouse or automatically means they will dominate Texas even though Texas has still accomplished more since 2000 than A&M has in their entire history and even though Texas still brings in almost twice the revenue as an athletics program than A&M and even though A&M is still paying back a loan from the academic side of the university while Texas pays money to the academic side and the LHN pays money to the academic side as well.....and all the worse in a few years when a coach has to walk into a top recruits house and say "we left the SEC for CUSA so we could compete so come play for us and compete to be the king of the losers"......boy that would sustain a program along with the massive loss in conference revenues, fan support, TV appearances, alumni donations and respect......which is why this thread is asinine to start with

that is what made TCU unique.....they competed as the king of the dorks in a conference, MOVED UP, competed as the kings of the bigger dorks, MOVED UP, competed in the MWC, went to the BE and before they were there they were ask to the Big 12.......VS dropping down several notches and telling everyone they were ready to "compete" and then trying to get respect for doing so while their program falls apart from making one of the dumbest decisions in the history of sport

4. you repeatedly have this "vision" where Baylor, Tech, Vandy, Wake, Duke and on and on are going to be left out of the programs that move up to whatever is above D1-A (and of course the obligatory SMU will just fold their program while north Texas will flourish even though north Texas failed to flourish in D1-AA for 15+ years there)

you conveniently ignore the basic reality that as of now in the SEC, Big 12, Big 10, PAC 12 and ACC there are 64 teams + ND and even after the last of the recent shuffling is done there will be 64 teams + Notre Dame for 65 teams total.......64 teams is the least that has ever really been mentioned for a new higher level of NCAA football......so at most there is a SLIGHT chance that a single team would not make the cut so that ND could be included

and more realistically it will probably be 80 teams.....and even if it is 64 teams there is very very little chance it will be one of the teams in the Big 12 that will be booted for ND since ND has been affiliated with the Big 10 and the ACC and since each of those conferences have just as many if not more teams that are terrible year in and year out.....and there is actually nothing that prevents D1-A+ from being 65 teams other than some desire to be even numbers of members in conferences and as far as the top D1-A teams now they have never really shown an interest in making it where each conference champion gets an equal shot at a play off or MNC they have always been more interested in having the top ranked teams face off which was why the BCS was started.....so that instead of two top teams being locked into the Cotton or Sugar or Rose Bowls there would be a mechanism for getting them to play each others.....and if the top teams break away they will surely still go with that method VS the "win the conference and playoff method......so ND could still have their place carved out with be ranked high enough and make the game or don't

and none of the other teams in the conferences not named SEC, Big 12, Big 10, ACC or PAC 12 have a chance in hell of being invited at the expense of any current member of that conference.....Boise or NIU or whoever is not going to get the call while someone else gets the boot.....the major conferences have no use for Boise or NIU or any of the others unless they want to have 80 teams in the top division and there is not a chance in hell they are going to dump a team from their conference now to add ANY of the teams in the lower conferences.....not a chance in hell and not even for BYU

at most it will be 80 teams or it will be 64 teams + a few independents like ND, BYU and maybe the service academies just to keep the US government from complaining (if they even complain)

so your silly visions of teams being left out in exchange for others from the non-AQ conferences is just that.....your silly vision

[JesseMartin]

WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP

I mentioned or hinted at much of what you said in my previous post, though the fact is I don't think any of us can make any assumptions as to what will happen if they make one big power tier in football due to all of the other variables. It's off-season and people are just throwing out all the ideas about what COULD happen, and both your version and some of the others seem realistic depending on what certain big programs decide when they get together in their little smoky rooms.

On the other hand it is pretty funny that I was talking about the crazy College Station vibe just last night. Aside from the fact that it's "its own little world" I never understood the appeal. I've been there a couple of times and was just like, "What the hell is wrong with these people?" Say what you want about North Texas, but one great advantage we have over aTm is that when someone isn't a "part of the group" we don't make them feel awkward or creeped out just by being on our campus.

[greenminer]

If we're talking on a broad cultural level then no, I wouldn't say A&M has left the Longhorns behind. Not yet, anyways.

But if we're talking current and future performance, I think A&M has put themselves to springboard past them both on the field and in the polls. UT will always be king in this state but, from a national perspective, the SEC puts them under a different spotlight that takes them out of that burnt orange shadow.

Edited June 24, 2013 by greenminer

[wardly]

The "Big 5" will and should split off at some point to create a Tier 1 Division.The MWC,CUSA,MAC,ACC,and Sun Belt would remain as a Tier 2 Division, and existing 1aa conference would comprise Tier 3. Think of high school football.[5A,4A,3A,2A,and 1A]

[UNT90]

The "Big 5" will and should split off at some point to create a Tier 1 Division.The MWC,CUSA,MAC,ACC,and Sun Belt would remain as a Tier 2 Division, and existing 1aa conference would comprise Tier 3. Think of high school football.[5A,4A,3A,2A,and 1A]

No.

[PlummMeanGreen]

The "Big 5" will and should split off at some point to create a Tier 1 Division.The MWC,CUSA,MAC,ACC,and Sun Belt would remain as a Tier 2 Division, and existing 1aa conference would comprise Tier 3. Think of high school football.[5A,4A,3A,2A,and 1A]

But still............will that make the "super elites" of the "Big 5" happy?

No, I don't think anything that is money or greed-driven really ever has happiness as an end result scenario.

So Here's The Plan:

Have about 14 or 16 of the "Really Big Boy" elitist schools break from the rest of the Big 5, let them form their NFL 2.0/minor league farm system schools, pay their performers those "forever" stipends some of their presently bored out of their minds for new and bigger high dollar projects (creating more separation from the "have nots"); that is, those future NFL 2.0 Super Coaches who just cannot wait to see "THEIR" players get paid even now. Yet for certain make sure their special, elite NFL 2.0 students will have to occassionally go to class to make the faculty happy and give them that "student/athlete" appearance of old but "only" go to classes part time less it interfere with their future careers in the real National Football League and then..............

.....................just let the rest of us play intercollegiate amateur sports the way I actually think all this was set up to be played in the first place; that is, before self-serving politics .....ie, such politics that make some of our enormously high paid yet still "NFL 2.0 Super Coaches" seem more important than they actually would be in most any other profession. And you still have all their schools getting the big time TV revenues while choking to death the majority of the rest of our schools who actually comprise most of the entire NCAA membership; that is, those NCAA programs which do not quite fit in their NFL 2.0 elitist group..............and with their forever...... "me...me....me.....me first" attitudes which seems to have taken over and literally permeated to the core that which used to be a fun to watch and (mostly) innocent NCAA inter-collegiate athletics (save a few habitual NCAA rule breakers who have proven to not be so innocent).

So who was it that said that money was the root of all..........now what's that word once again?

GMG!

PS: You who know me well know I'm being facetious as all get-out about the above idea.

Edited June 24, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen