UNT Board increases student fees for athletics

[JesseMartin]

Tolstoy's version is WAY better.

I instantly caught that one Though to be fair, I've not read either all the way through.

[PlummMeanGreen]

So after reading an apparent TSU-SM alum's manifesto above, is it time for North Texas to raid the Home of Aquarena Spring's favorite campus of their more talented administrative staff at the top and endowment coffer fundraisers, too? And that because during our 30 year (give/take) sleep they seemed to have put their "teacher's college" status behind them much more effectively than others and even as a non-Texas university system school? They are raising funds for one campus while, uh, we seem to be doing so for campuses in Dallas, Fort Worth and then...............Denton.

God only knows how many times their present TSU-SM Bobcat HFC, ie, one Dennis Francione has wanted the same job at North Texas even over, uh, TSU-SM back (the first time) when we chose to hire Dennis Parker instead and with Coach Fran even getting turned down by UNT at least twice last count) so might we get lucky with some of their top administrators in San Marcos, too, like for starters....

........just who is the TSU-SM president who seems to have led them past UNT in some key areas even as what the most recent figures suggest are their annual research monies, too? (Coach Fran? For certain I'm still fine with our present HFC in Denton as I think he is the one who takes UNT out of the NCAA wilderness and also one who will not dummy down our expections or re-define what a successful NCAA FBS level football program truly is and I defer to a recent Top 25 ranked football program located in Ruston, LA.).

While North Texas Slept (not a Pulitzer Prize winning book yet unfortunately written by all of us with UNT ties) with seemed non-stop praise from a few on this forum for what would not be acceptable performers and performances even in the town of San Marcos, Texas)..............yet that period of sleeping by our school in what is obviously too many under-performances in most important areas of a school's true barometer of success.

And for our school has it not been a most expensive venture while others seemed to have passed us by if we can (still) believe some of the figures we read and some of those from our best Google researching? Yet it seems that the numbers we now read and a Texas public university's endowment coffer totals still never lie. We have to have at least $400 million of an endowment (as I understand the most recent list of criteria) to pass what a few of you have said would be the final barrier for UNT to become a Tier 1 Research outfit and still..... we are even behind TSU-SM in that department, too.

AGAIN....who North Texas hires as its new main campus president will be important in more ways than one. Our school at this point in its history cannot afford to hire a "this makes no sense or cents" hire during this hiring cycle. SO....DO I HEAR AN AMEN? Of course not because this poster like a few others never follows the usual UNT company line of what seems to be unadulterated bullshit too many times. We can take a steaming bowl of dog caca on this board at times and turn it into banana pudding so we all eventually have to ask this question to ourselves as in: WHO THE HELL DO WE THINK WE ARE KIDDING?

My blood sugars down so time to take the meds!

Edited June 16, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNT90]

Just like in elementary school, we can break a compound sentence with the "or" conjunction into two separate complete sentences.

...Prohibits the amount of the fee from increasing to an amount that exceeds by 10 percent or more the amount of the fee as last approved by a student vote.

...Prohibits the amount of the fee from increasing to an amount that exceeds by 10 percent or more the amount of the fee as last approved by this subsection.

The legalese isn't that difficult to understand. Subsection G describes the limit of any increase as it relates to two different baselines:

1. The original student vote of $10 (or any future student vote that sets a new fee amount)

2. Any increase approved by the BOR under subsection G.

You're making it more complicated than it needs to be.

The whole and/or thing must be confusing for many people.

Perhaps even our own BOR, since they haven't raised the fee?

Again, thanks for the explanation in a post that I could read in under 2 hours.

[GL2Greatness]

The whole and/or thing must be confusing for many people.

Perhaps even our own BOR, since they haven't raised the fee?

Again, thanks for the explanation in a post that I could read in under 2 hours.

it is really not all that confusing unless one wants to try and cling to their status as super GMG insider with all knowledge of all goings on

these are the same types of people that when the fee was first implemented said "no worries it can be raised and we are going to max out that raise every year"....well the fee was first implemented in the fall of 2011 at $10 and as it very clearly states on the north Texas fee website the fee for the all of 2013 is $10......so those that have been telling you all is well we are going to max it out every year were clearly wrong

and the reality is when people ask why the fee is half of what Texas State can charge for 15 hours and half of what UTSA can charge for 12 hours the simple answer is because that is where the BOR and lee the idiot desire the fee to be and that is where it has remained since the fall of 2011 and where it will remain at least through the fall of 2013 so it will not have been raised for at least 2.5 years

it is easiest I suppose for many to blame Brett Vito (shout out to scotty and the S board) or they can blame SexyTime and demand that Brett Vito and BigSexy be fired for not reporting daily about how the fee needs to be raised or for not going into their bosses office every day and demanding the fee be raised, but at some point Brett and the PizzaMan have to realize that those that have the ability to raise the fee are simply not interested in doing that so they can either report on other things and spend their time on other athletics endeavors, or they can browbeat people about things and probably be ask to find a new job eventually or they can work with what they have and hope something changes in the future

if you read the actual legislation for Texas State

http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/80R/billtext/html/SB00161F.htm

and for north Texas

http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/81R/billtext/html/SB00473F.HTM

there are things that are similar and things that are different.....the one for Texas State specified a single YEARLY raise of 5% and anything above that required a student vote......and that is exactly what Texas State did.....when they decided to move up to D1-A they had a vote by the students and the students voted to set the fee at $10 and allow the administration to raise it $2 per year for 5 straight years to $20 if they saw fit to do so.....and that is what happened and now in 2013 the fee is finally at $20

if you look at the north Texas legislation and you want to read it where it can be raised over and over you would really have to question why all the other language is in there about student votes and students setting a max amount in that vote and really why the 10% language is even in there......because if you read that it can be raised over and over 10% at a time then you would also see there is no YEARLY restriction as well......so just as fast as the BOR could vote yea or nay they could raise the fee 10% at a time to any level they wish over and over and over again.....$11 now $12.10 two minutes later $13.31 after that and on and on until it gets to any amount they wish...again that is just a ridiculous interpretation considering all of the other language that is contained in the bill about a student vote and setting the fee at $10 to start because it if can be raised over and over just based on a BOR vote with no yearly restriction or no monthly or even weekly restriction then the rest of that language is just a waste and would not have been included

and all the worse from the point of view of "does the administration care" for those that view setting the fee at the same level as Texas State and UTSA as "caring" is IF (and it is a huge stretch to believe so) the BOR could really just vote over and over and over as fast as they can to raise it 10% at a time or even yearly(there is no language for a yearly restriction)......why have they not done so......why have they not done what all the "insiders" and the smoke blowers and sunshine pumpers said was a sure thing...and even if out of some sort of "just because" the only wanted to raise it 10% a year they could have raised the fee 10% immediately after the legislation was approved and had it at $11 dollars in the fall of 2011 and they could have then had it at $12.10 in the fall of 2012 and at $13.21 in the fall of 2013.......but in spite of all insider information and all assurances that all was well and everything was taking shape and the max was going to be voted in place every time it could be (which if you read it the way some do is as fast as the BOR can vote on it since there is no restrictions on how often it can be raised 10% by that silly interpretation) the BOR has not seen fit to vote on raising the fee a single time and they have not seen fit to put another vote to the students to see if they want to further raise the fee

so while Texas state since the fall of 2011 has taken their fee from $16 dollars to $20 dollars (not only did the students vote to allow that to happen, but the university administration and BOR followed through on that ability and actually DID raise it each year) north Texas has seen fit to raise their fee from $10 in the fall of 2011 to a whopping $10 dollars in the fall of 2013.....for a grand total of ZERO

now I realize that Brett probably Vitoed that (haha see what I did there) and SexyTime said that working with a larger budget than he currently has was not sexy and the UT System and Texas A&M and Texas Tech and other boogie men got in the ear of the BOR and affable semi-retired VLR and strong armed them into not raising the fee, but it is amazing that those same forces were not even able to do that same thing to UTSA that is just a "branch campus" of all powerful Austin and the were not able to go down the street from the UT System offices in Austin to the Texas State System offices in Austin and make those same threats and strong arm tactics in person

so while it might be fun to be all knowing and an insider and read legislation any way you see fit the reality is until Brett Vito and BigSexy are run out of town, the north Texas BOR and administration is staffed with people that have a spine and or no major skeletons in their closet to be hung over their head and that can stand up to and resist the bullying tactics of Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, UH, SMU, Baylor, UTEP, TCU and Rice the fee is not going to increase.......or perhaps one could put down the sunshine pump, step away from the smoke blower, stop blaming the beat writer for the local rag, understand that the AD has a boss that he has to answer to and that boss has an idiot that he has to answer to and that idiot has the BOR basically rubber stamping his stupid ideas and realize that the chancellor and the BOR really have no interest in raising the athletics fee even 10% in the same time that Texas State has raised theirs $4 and you can run off all the reports, forum members and ADs you wish, but that is only going to make it easier for the chancellor and the BOR to keep on doing as they wish and ignoring the desires of those that would like to make sure athletics is funded to keep up with others that are just now moving up to D1-A and already have in place an athletics fee that is able to charge up to $90 to $150 more per student per semester than what north Texas has in place

it is not about being the smartest person in the room it is about saying at some point you have to stop listening to all the "insiders" and those that say "it is getting done" and you have to stop blaming the reporters and the AD and you really have to look at the reality of the situation and ask if the ability to raise the fee is there why is it not being done and if the ability to raise it is not there why is something not being done about that other than some "insiders" telling everyone to remain calm super top secret plans are in place that will soon all be reveled to you in due time.....and then IF anything ever happens it takes MUCH longer than everyone expects or hopes for or that they were lead to believe it would take and it almost always ends up being much less than was anticipated as well.....it is like top secret fundraising (we recently saw that) or top secret presidential searches or top secret moves to get professional programs tied to the main campus instead of the community college component of the north Texas system and on and on

so you can stick with the tl.dr and the cute GIFs and then in 3-5 years you can wake up and ask WTF why does everyone else have a higher fee, why are they able to jump right into the same conference we have wanted to be in for a decade after their first provisional year in D1-A or you can start to look at the real issues and understand what is being done (and not done).....and then I suppose you can blame Brett Vito again and call for the firing of SexyTime.....and then you will get a real wake up call when things stay exactly the same or get worse

Edited June 16, 2013 by GL2Greatness

[PlummMeanGreen]

GL2Greatness, please take this question as a most sincere one with nothing between the lines or any kind of attempt at a "gotcha" scenario but.............what could possibly happen to the University of North Texas that would give you the most joy and satisfaction since most all your posts are like reading chapter after chapter of what might be your latest literary entry (if you were an author, that is) which could easily be titled: "Why I Am Having Such Joy Watching Anyone From The UNT Constituency Squirm In Their Batan Death March?"

Most of us on GMG.com square up with each other whether on this forum, a private message or even an occassional phone conversation with our most of the time agreeing to disagree (and sometimes even actually agree) but still parting as friends post communications or phone conversation....but your non-stop dark agenda on the subject of UNT and/or UNT athletics is quite the mystery.

I know to answer the above question with a full disclosure would take much of your mystery away from this forum and thus your having no real reasons to stay, but surprise us all and give us even just 1 subtle hint as to why you hate UNT so much. To quote the great Ross Perot...."we're all ears."

Edited June 17, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNT90]

it is really not all that confusing unless one wants to try and cling to their status as super GMG insider with all knowledge of all goings on

these are the same types of people that when the fee was first implemented said "no worries it can be raised and we are going to max out that raise every year"....well the fee was first implemented in the fall of 2011 at $10 and as it very clearly states on the north Texas fee website the fee for the all of 2013 is $10......so those that have been telling you all is well we are going to max it out every year were clearly wrong

and the reality is when people ask why the fee is half of what Texas State can charge for 15 hours and half of what UTSA can charge for 12 hours the simple answer is because that is where the BOR and lee the idiot desire the fee to be and that is where it has remained since the fall of 2011 and where it will remain at least through the fall of 2013 so it will not have been raised for at least 2.5 years

it is easiest I suppose for many to blame Brett Vito (shout out to scotty and the S board) or they can blame SexyTime and demand that Brett Vito and BigSexy be fired for not reporting daily about how the fee needs to be raised or for not going into their bosses office every day and demanding the fee be raised, but at some point Brett and the PizzaMan have to realize that those that have the ability to raise the fee are simply not interested in doing that so they can either report on other things and spend their time on other athletics endeavors, or they can browbeat people about things and probably be ask to find a new job eventually or they can work with what they have and hope something changes in the future

if you read the actual legislation for Texas State

http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/80R/billtext/html/SB00161F.htm

and for north Texas

http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/81R/billtext/html/SB00473F.HTM

there are things that are similar and things that are different.....the one for Texas State specified a single YEARLY raise of 5% and anything above that required a student vote......and that is exactly what Texas State did.....when they decided to move up to D1-A they had a vote by the students and the students voted to set the fee at $10 and allow the administration to raise it $2 per year for 5 straight years to $20 if they saw fit to do so.....and that is what happened and now in 2013 the fee is finally at $20

if you look at the north Texas legislation and you want to read it where it can be raised over and over you would really have to question why all the other language is in there about student votes and students setting a max amount in that vote and really why the 10% language is even in there......because if you read that it can be raised over and over 10% at a time then you would also see there is no YEARLY restriction as well......so just as fast as the BOR could vote yea or nay they could raise the fee 10% at a time to any level they wish over and over and over again.....$11 now $12.10 two minutes later $13.31 after that and on and on until it gets to any amount they wish...again that is just a ridiculous interpretation considering all of the other language that is contained in the bill about a student vote and setting the fee at $10 to start because it if can be raised over and over just based on a BOR vote with no yearly restriction or no monthly or even weekly restriction then the rest of that language is just a waste and would not have been included

and all the worse from the point of view of "does the administration care" for those that view setting the fee at the same level as Texas State and UTSA as "caring" is IF (and it is a huge stretch to believe so) the BOR could really just vote over and over and over as fast as they can to raise it 10% at a time or even yearly(there is no language for a yearly restriction)......why have they not done so......why have they not done what all the "insiders" and the smoke blowers and sunshine pumpers said was a sure thing...and even if out of some sort of "just because" the only wanted to raise it 10% a year they could have raised the fee 10% immediately after the legislation was approved and had it at $11 dollars in the fall of 2011 and they could have then had it at $12.10 in the fall of 2012 and at $13.21 in the fall of 2013.......but in spite of all insider information and all assurances that all was well and everything was taking shape and the max was going to be voted in place every time it could be (which if you read it the way some do is as fast as the BOR can vote on it since there is no restrictions on how often it can be raised 10% by that silly interpretation) the BOR has not seen fit to vote on raising the fee a single time and they have not seen fit to put another vote to the students to see if they want to further raise the fee

so while Texas state since the fall of 2011 has taken their fee from $16 dollars to $20 dollars (not only did the students vote to allow that to happen, but the university administration and BOR followed through on that ability and actually DID raise it each year) north Texas has seen fit to raise their fee from $10 in the fall of 2011 to a whopping $10 dollars in the fall of 2013.....for a grand total of ZERO

now I realize that Brett probably Vitoed that (haha see what I did there) and SexyTime said that working with a larger budget than he currently has was not sexy and the UT System and Texas A&M and Texas Tech and other boogie men got in the ear of the BOR and affable semi-retired VLR and strong armed them into not raising the fee, but it is amazing that those same forces were not even able to do that same thing to UTSA that is just a "branch campus" of all powerful Austin and the were not able to go down the street from the UT System offices in Austin to the Texas State System offices in Austin and make those same threats and strong arm tactics in person

so while it might be fun to be all knowing and an insider and read legislation any way you see fit the reality is until Brett Vito and BigSexy are run out of town, the north Texas BOR and administration is staffed with people that have a spine and or no major skeletons in their closet to be hung over their head and that can stand up to and resist the bullying tactics of Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, UH, SMU, Baylor, UTEP, TCU and Rice the fee is not going to increase.......or perhaps one could put down the sunshine pump, step away from the smoke blower, stop blaming the beat writer for the local rag, understand that the AD has a boss that he has to answer to and that boss has an idiot that he has to answer to and that idiot has the BOR basically rubber stamping his stupid ideas and realize that the chancellor and the BOR really have no interest in raising the athletics fee even 10% in the same time that Texas State has raised theirs $4 and you can run off all the reports, forum members and ADs you wish, but that is only going to make it easier for the chancellor and the BOR to keep on doing as they wish and ignoring the desires of those that would like to make sure athletics is funded to keep up with others that are just now moving up to D1-A and already have in place an athletics fee that is able to charge up to $90 to $150 more per student per semester than what north Texas has in place

it is not about being the smartest person in the room it is about saying at some point you have to stop listening to all the "insiders" and those that say "it is getting done" and you have to stop blaming the reporters and the AD and you really have to look at the reality of the situation and ask if the ability to raise the fee is there why is it not being done and if the ability to raise it is not there why is something not being done about that other than some "insiders" telling everyone to remain calm super top secret plans are in place that will soon all be reveled to you in due time.....and then IF anything ever happens it takes MUCH longer than everyone expects or hopes for or that they were lead to believe it would take and it almost always ends up being much less than was anticipated as well.....it is like top secret fundraising (we recently saw that) or top secret presidential searches or top secret moves to get professional programs tied to the main campus instead of the community college component of the north Texas system and on and on

so you can stick with the tl.dr and the cute GIFs and then in 3-5 years you can wake up and ask WTF why does everyone else have a higher fee, why are they able to jump right into the same conference we have wanted to be in for a decade after their first provisional year in D1-A or you can start to look at the real issues and understand what is being done (and not done).....and then I suppose you can blame Brett Vito again and call for the firing of SexyTime.....and then you will get a real wake up call when things stay exactly the same or get worse

Ya, I stopped reading after the first line.

I'll believe the guy responsible for getting the fee passed over someone who spends far too much time hating UNT any day.

[UNTflyer]

Again, the explanation is simple.

UNT has been trying to get a new Student Union Fee and now this increase in the Student Services Fee. The BOR is not going to raise the Athletics Fee just because it can. It will raise it when it needs to.

[CMJ]

it is really not all that confusing unless one wants to try and cling to their status as super GMG insider with all knowledge of all goings on

these are the same types of people that when the fee was first implemented said "no worries it can be raised and we are going to max out that raise every year"....well the fee was first implemented in the fall of 2011 at $10 and as it very clearly states on the north Texas fee website the fee for the all of 2013 is $10......so those that have been telling you all is well we are going to max it out every year were clearly wrong

and the reality is when people ask why the fee is half of what Texas State can charge for 15 hours and half of what UTSA can charge for 12 hours the simple answer is because that is where the BOR and lee the idiot desire the fee to be and that is where it has remained since the fall of 2011 and where it will remain at least through the fall of 2013 so it will not have been raised for at least 2.5 years

it is easiest I suppose for many to blame Brett Vito (shout out to scotty and the S board) or they can blame SexyTime and demand that Brett Vito and BigSexy be fired for not reporting daily about how the fee needs to be raised or for not going into their bosses office every day and demanding the fee be raised, but at some point Brett and the PizzaMan have to realize that those that have the ability to raise the fee are simply not interested in doing that so they can either report on other things and spend their time on other athletics endeavors, or they can browbeat people about things and probably be ask to find a new job eventually or they can work with what they have and hope something changes in the future

if you read the actual legislation for Texas State

http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/80R/billtext/html/SB00161F.htm

and for north Texas

http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/81R/billtext/html/SB00473F.HTM

there are things that are similar and things that are different.....the one for Texas State specified a single YEARLY raise of 5% and anything above that required a student vote......and that is exactly what Texas State did.....when they decided to move up to D1-A they had a vote by the students and the students voted to set the fee at $10 and allow the administration to raise it $2 per year for 5 straight years to $20 if they saw fit to do so.....and that is what happened and now in 2013 the fee is finally at $20

if you look at the north Texas legislation and you want to read it where it can be raised over and over you would really have to question why all the other language is in there about student votes and students setting a max amount in that vote and really why the 10% language is even in there......because if you read that it can be raised over and over 10% at a time then you would also see there is no YEARLY restriction as well......so just as fast as the BOR could vote yea or nay they could raise the fee 10% at a time to any level they wish over and over and over again.....$11 now $12.10 two minutes later $13.31 after that and on and on until it gets to any amount they wish...again that is just a ridiculous interpretation considering all of the other language that is contained in the bill about a student vote and setting the fee at $10 to start because it if can be raised over and over just based on a BOR vote with no yearly restriction or no monthly or even weekly restriction then the rest of that language is just a waste and would not have been included

and all the worse from the point of view of "does the administration care" for those that view setting the fee at the same level as Texas State and UTSA as "caring" is IF (and it is a huge stretch to believe so) the BOR could really just vote over and over and over as fast as they can to raise it 10% at a time or even yearly(there is no language for a yearly restriction)......why have they not done so......why have they not done what all the "insiders" and the smoke blowers and sunshine pumpers said was a sure thing...and even if out of some sort of "just because" the only wanted to raise it 10% a year they could have raised the fee 10% immediately after the legislation was approved and had it at $11 dollars in the fall of 2011 and they could have then had it at $12.10 in the fall of 2012 and at $13.21 in the fall of 2013.......but in spite of all insider information and all assurances that all was well and everything was taking shape and the max was going to be voted in place every time it could be (which if you read it the way some do is as fast as the BOR can vote on it since there is no restrictions on how often it can be raised 10% by that silly interpretation) the BOR has not seen fit to vote on raising the fee a single time and they have not seen fit to put another vote to the students to see if they want to further raise the fee

so while Texas state since the fall of 2011 has taken their fee from $16 dollars to $20 dollars (not only did the students vote to allow that to happen, but the university administration and BOR followed through on that ability and actually DID raise it each year) north Texas has seen fit to raise their fee from $10 in the fall of 2011 to a whopping $10 dollars in the fall of 2013.....for a grand total of ZERO

now I realize that Brett probably Vitoed that (haha see what I did there) and SexyTime said that working with a larger budget than he currently has was not sexy and the UT System and Texas A&M and Texas Tech and other boogie men got in the ear of the BOR and affable semi-retired VLR and strong armed them into not raising the fee, but it is amazing that those same forces were not even able to do that same thing to UTSA that is just a "branch campus" of all powerful Austin and the were not able to go down the street from the UT System offices in Austin to the Texas State System offices in Austin and make those same threats and strong arm tactics in person

so while it might be fun to be all knowing and an insider and read legislation any way you see fit the reality is until Brett Vito and BigSexy are run out of town, the north Texas BOR and administration is staffed with people that have a spine and or no major skeletons in their closet to be hung over their head and that can stand up to and resist the bullying tactics of Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, UH, SMU, Baylor, UTEP, TCU and Rice the fee is not going to increase.......or perhaps one could put down the sunshine pump, step away from the smoke blower, stop blaming the beat writer for the local rag, understand that the AD has a boss that he has to answer to and that boss has an idiot that he has to answer to and that idiot has the BOR basically rubber stamping his stupid ideas and realize that the chancellor and the BOR really have no interest in raising the athletics fee even 10% in the same time that Texas State has raised theirs $4 and you can run off all the reports, forum members and ADs you wish, but that is only going to make it easier for the chancellor and the BOR to keep on doing as they wish and ignoring the desires of those that would like to make sure athletics is funded to keep up with others that are just now moving up to D1-A and already have in place an athletics fee that is able to charge up to $90 to $150 more per student per semester than what north Texas has in place

it is not about being the smartest person in the room it is about saying at some point you have to stop listening to all the "insiders" and those that say "it is getting done" and you have to stop blaming the reporters and the AD and you really have to look at the reality of the situation and ask if the ability to raise the fee is there why is it not being done and if the ability to raise it is not there why is something not being done about that other than some "insiders" telling everyone to remain calm super top secret plans are in place that will soon all be reveled to you in due time.....and then IF anything ever happens it takes MUCH longer than everyone expects or hopes for or that they were lead to believe it would take and it almost always ends up being much less than was anticipated as well.....it is like top secret fundraising (we recently saw that) or top secret presidential searches or top secret moves to get professional programs tied to the main campus instead of the community college component of the north Texas system and on and on

so you can stick with the tl.dr and the cute GIFs and then in 3-5 years you can wake up and ask WTF why does everyone else have a higher fee, why are they able to jump right into the same conference we have wanted to be in for a decade after their first provisional year in D1-A or you can start to look at the real issues and understand what is being done (and not done).....and then I suppose you can blame Brett Vito again and call for the firing of SexyTime.....and then you will get a real wake up call when things stay exactly the same or get worse

http://www.online-literature.com/tolstoy/war_and_peace/1/

[GL2Greatness]

QUOTE:Emmit J

UNT still will have among the lowest student athletic fees in the Sun Belt Conference and in Texas, even smaller than Texas State’s, a Football Championship Division (I-AA) school that is increasing its fee from $10 per hour to $20 over the next five years.

I know the fee passed and we beyond this, but this fact should have (and still should) been trumpeted to anyone/everyone that would listen.

**********************************************

but no one will listen EJ.....not even you......or is that the other EJ calling for the fact that the fee is only $10 not $20 dollars to be trumpeted to anyone/everyone that will listen?

UNT90, on 16 Jun 2013 - 7:42 PM, said:

Ya, I stopped reading after the first line.

I'll believe the guy responsible for getting the fee passed over someone who spends far too much time hating UNT any day.

you can listen to anyone you wish and when things don't work out the way they say they will you can still continue to listen to anyone you wish.....but the reality is you will be ignoring the reasons that things do not turn out the way you wish

lets have a look back at past predictions by those "in the know" and those that are "simply right" shall we

so the naming rights were sold for "20 million" with 11.8 million of that in actual cash and 5 million of that in "in kind" services to the university.....that is a very nice naming rights deal, but it is hardly $20 million going towards the stajium and Coke was never even mentioned by anyone

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/blog/morning_call/2011/09/naming-deal-detailed-for-unts-apogee.html

so again a great deal of insider hype VS reality

CheckFacts is 10 pounds of speculation in a 5-lb sack.

First off, her numbers are whack. When the fee kicks in, we should have about 37,000 students if the average over the past few years holds steady. Second, the net increase is more than $7, it's actually about $7.65. She claims we'll only have $9.2 million extra from the fee. It's more like $10.6 million. Initially. Doesn't sound like much but that's a difference of 13%.

Also, the fee can be increased by the Board of Regents. "Will it?" is the unknown here. Does this BOR have the stones to fund the program the way it should be, or will they let the fee lay there at $10/hr?

The fact is that CheckFacts is a Debbie Downer, and she always has been. She said the students would never vote for the stadium. Then she said the BOR wouldn't approve it without money in hand. Then she said the legislature would absolutely not approve it. Yet here we are.

And let's assume CheckFacts is right.

We have a $78 million stadium bonded for, let's say 20 years. Can UNT get 5.5% rate? In this economy and their credit rating, absolutely!

A construction bond with $5 million down would result in monthly installments of $502,000 and some change. That's $6.02 million a year. The fee can only pay half (as she is so fond of pointing out) so that means the fee can only pay $3.01 million per year for 20 years.

Depending on whose math you want to believe, that's either $6.19M or $7.59M extra in our pockets per year.

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/files/import/93528-Neinas%20report.pdf

well know we don't have to assume do we.....and now we all know who was the 10 pounds in the 5 pound bag don't we

A STUDENT FEE INCREASE WILL RESULT IN AN ADDITIONAL 4 MILLION DOLLARS TO THE UNT ATHLETICS BUDGET, BUT THE BULK OF THE FEE INCREASE WILL BE COMMITTED TO STAJIUM DEBT SERVICE

so not only was there not an extra 6 to 7.5 million laying around in the goodie bag the fee did not even add a TOTAL of 6 to 7.5 million to the athletics budget and the money it did add was almost entirely used for stajium debt service

or are you trying to say that the consultant named Chuck Neinas that north Texas paid a large amount of cash to analysis the program does not know what he is talking about as well?

but don't worry about all of that because baseball is coming!!

I'd guess it depends on whether we want to play in one of the local parks for a few years.

The good news:

1. We have approximately $.75 million in donations dedicated to baseball.
2. The money available would cover start up costs.
3. There will be some additional funds available in 2011 from the athletics fee.
4. We have fairly strong support for a team.
5. We own the land where the ballpark will be located.
6. There is plenty of talent available.
7. Softball was able to play elsewhere locally and later successfully build their own stadium.
8. The Athletics Director is in favor of adding baseball as soon as possible.

The bad news:

1. We do not have, nor do we have the money to build, a new stadium.
2. One or two additional women's sports would need to added to comply with Title IX.

Of the $7 increase in fees, we only need $3-4 to service the note on the stadium. That's going to free up $3-4 million a year to fund other projects.

As for Title IX, I can see the university adding women's gymnastics. The coliseum can be used for competitions.

I'd also like to see men's soccer and women's/men's lacrosse.

QUOTE(UNTflyer @ Jul 26 2008, 01:34 PM) ←

I will point out that enrollment should be a factor when doing a comparison.

UNT: 35,000 * $6/hour * 15 hours * 2 semesters = $6.3 million/year

Total revenue from fees:

FIU (38,000): $8.6 million
Texas State (28,000): $8.4 million (by 2012)
South Alabama (14,000): $7.1 million
UTSA (29,000): $6.9 million
FAU (26,000) : $5.3 million
La-La (17,000) : $3.5 million
La-Mo (8,000) : $1.66 million

Now, if UNT increased to just $10 an hour:

UNT: 35,000 * $10/hour * 15 hours * 2 semesters = $10.5 million/year

Our enrollment is our strength. I think if you put it in this perspective, we're not in that bad of shape compared to these other schools.

Flyer, your calculations are way off. You are comparing the per semester contributions at the other schools with per year contributions at North Texas.

Double each of the other schools Total revenue from fees for more accurate figures.

QUOTE(UNTflyer @ Jul 26 2008, 08:23 PM) ←

I agree. USF has revenue of $20 mil and UCF is at $22 mil. Granted, they get a huge chunk from ticket sales and conference/NCAA distributions. They also are allowed to use state funds. But we need to match those levels of revenue if we want to compete.

Exactly!!! (and those figures were from 2004-2005, before the recent success at each school)

The athletic budget at each of those schools will probably be in excess of 30 million by 2012.

Ticket sales have increased significantly for each school during the last decade, enrollment is up, alumni donations are way up, corporate donations are way up, research grants are way up, both schools have become more selective on admissions, and the value of a degree from each school has risen to unforseen levels.

And to think, ten years ago they were just regarded by almost everyone as 'insignificant commuter colleges".

Nobody had even heard of South Florida when North Texas first played them in 2001. How times have changed for them.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/blogs/knights-notepad/os-ucf-athletics-receives-majority-of-revenue-from-subsidies,0,728031.post

The USA Today chart shows UCF made $40,993,870 in total revenues in 2012, down almost $2 million from the year before, but up more than $18 million from 2005.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/248640/250/Athletics-taxing-USF-students-heavily

so there is some good news here.....north Texas is competitive with USF and UCF on budgets.......from 2005...

I will link page 4 of the above thread again because it contains some great post from 5 years ago

here is another good one from way back in 2006 haha...2006!!

QUOTE(sports88guy @ Nov 10 2006, 12:00 AM)

i thought i heard that we might be getting baseball in 2007 or 2008 but not 100% on that, i hope its soon since any sport should help with every aspect of the school

←

2008-2009 school year


No, I can't tell you sources, but FFR can verify that my source is credible.

boy you know where this is going to go!

QUOTE(ADLER @ Nov 14 2006, 09:52 PM)

2008-2009 school year
No, I can't tell you sources, but FFR can verify that my source is credible.

←

why do people act like they have the inside scoop on everything.... with their "credible" sources. ooooh, arent you special with your insider knowledge . big whoop! ill believe it when i hear from the AD. obviously its not set in stone or we would be hearing something by now. so, take the feather out of your hat and take off your . but i guess im just jealous that you have "sources"

QUOTE(MrStrange62 @ Nov 14 2006, 11:29 PM)

why do people act like they have the inside scoop on everything.... with their "credible" sources. ooooh, arent you special with your insider knowledge . big whoop! ill believe it when i hear from the AD. obviously its not set in stone or we would be hearing something by now. so, take the feather out of your hat and take off your . but i guess im just jealous that you have "sources"

←

I would have told you nicely, but noooooooooooo...............

Maybe I am making it all up. Let me know in two years.

Have fun waiting.

are we having fun waiting yet?......and it has been uh.....um....uh.....2 years......so I am just letting you know....

and about those "insider sources" that are "verified"...

QUOTE(MrStrange62 @ Nov 14 2006, 11:29 PM)

why do people act like they have the inside scoop on everything.... with their "credible" sources. ooooh, arent you special with your insider knowledge . big whoop! ill believe it when i hear from the AD. obviously its not set in stone or we would be hearing something by now. so, take the feather out of your hat and take off your . but i guess im just jealous that you have "sources"

←

I dont know about all those sources, but RV himself told me that we would field a baseball team in the 2008-2009 season. I dont know if I need one of these to share that info. Or you could just ask him, its no secret

so we have secret recruiting.....secret fundraising.......secret athletics fee increases.....and now secret baseball!!

was that a hit or a strike.....I don't know it is a secret

so nearly 7 years ago baseball was said to be coming by 4 years ago and it is still not here and now is said to be coming in 2014 or 2015 and the athletics fee has still not been raised (but shhhhh EJ no longer wants us to talk about that any longer)

there is no huge extra money from the current fee for other things besides the stajium bonds (Chuck Neinas has always been full of crap there is millions available) and there have been no big sellouts at Apogee and we know all the club seats have not been sold because there was a long thread on here where some people were angry because some fans had been invited up to sit in the club seats (as a sales point by SexyTime) and those that had donated and bought club seats were mad and wondering why they had paid for something that others were getting for free

meanwhile down I-35

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTSA_Roadrunners_football

In February 2006, the University of Texas at San Antonio approached Carr Sports Associates, Inc. to conduct a feasibility study and make recommendations to the university regarding an expansion of the athletics department

the university facilitated a student referendum in September 2007 to gauge support for a fee increase

On February 4, 2009, former Miami Hurricanes head coach Larry Coker announced he had applied for the head coaching job

However in late January 2010, Hickey stated that the football program would attempt to join the Division I FBS subdivision by 2014 instead, citing an overall disappointment for previous plans.

On November 10, 2010, it was reported that the WAC had offered UTSA, along with fellow Southland conference member Texas State and Sun Belt Conference member Denver an invitation to join its conference that would take effect in 2012.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7866383/utsa-roadrunners-poised-exit-wac-conference-usa

Conference USA is set to bring aboard Texas-San Antonio

Future opponents

I will let you read the list of future HOME and away opponents on your own

and everyone is free to believe anyone they wish to believe no matter how big of a ten pounder they are in a five pound bag and no matter how often the say they are right (without ever really back it up) and then ignore when the truth comes out and they are wrong and no matter how many cute GIFs and little sayings and petty attempted comments about failing out or "she" or the like they use to try and prove their points VS using actual reality and then being shown to be wrong or being show to be way off base and way out in left field with their hugely inflated predictions and time lines

hey if that is what works for you and gets you excited and you like to have those same conversations over and over and listen to those same insider sources say things are happening and just you want and the like....hey whatever floats your boat

but then when reality sets in I suppose you can have fun starting that conversation all over again and going down the same path and even ignoring your own calls for everyone to make it known about how things are being done and how others are actually DOING more VS just talking about doing it or debating if it can even be done or coming around and letting everyone know why your insider sources told you it was not going to be done even though it could be done and everyone else does it

Edited June 17, 2013 by GL2Greatness

[CMJ]

QUOTE:Emmit J

UNT still will have among the lowest student athletic fees in the Sun Belt Conference and in Texas, even smaller than Texas State’s, a Football Championship Division (I-AA) school that is increasing its fee from $10 per hour to $20 over the next five years.

I know the fee passed and we beyond this, but this fact should have (and still should) been trumpeted to anyone/everyone that would listen.

**********************************************

but no one will listen EJ.....not even you......or is that the other EJ calling for the fact that the fee is only $10 not $20 dollars to be trumpeted to anyone/everyone that will listen?

UNT90, on 16 Jun 2013 - 7:42 PM, said:

Ya, I stopped reading after the first line.

I'll believe the guy responsible for getting the fee passed over someone who spends far too much time hating UNT any day.

you can listen to anyone you wish and when things don't work out the way they say they will you can still continue to listen to anyone you wish.....but the reality is you will be ignoring the reasons that things do not turn out the way you wish

lets have a look back at past predictions by those "in the know" and those that are "simply right" shall we

so the naming rights were sold for "20 million" with 11.8 million of that in actual cash and 5 million of that in "in kind" services to the university.....that is a very nice naming rights deal, but it is hardly $20 million going towards the stajium and Coke was never even mentioned by anyone

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/blog/morning_call/2011/09/naming-deal-detailed-for-unts-apogee.html

so again a great deal of insider hype VS reality

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/files/import/93528-Neinas%20report.pdf

well know we don't have to assume do we.....and now we all know who was the 10 pounds in the 5 pound bag don't we

A STUDENT FEE INCREASE WILL RESULT IN AN ADDITIONAL 4 MILLION DOLLARS TO THE UNT ATHLETICS BUDGET, BUT THE BULK OF THE FEE INCREASE WILL BE COMMITTED TO STAJIUM DEBT SERVICE

so not only was there not an extra 6 to 7.5 million laying around in the goodie bag the fee did not even add a TOTAL of 6 to 7.5 million to the athletics budget and the money it did add was almost entirely used for stajium debt service

or are you trying to say that the consultant named Chuck Neinas that north Texas paid a large amount of cash to analysis the program does not know what he is talking about as well?

but don't worry about all of that because baseball is coming!!

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/blogs/knights-notepad/os-ucf-athletics-receives-majority-of-revenue-from-subsidies,0,728031.post

The USA Today chart shows UCF made $40,993,870 in total revenues in 2012, down almost $2 million from the year before, but up more than $18 million from 2005.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/248640/250/Athletics-taxing-USF-students-heavily

so there is some good news here.....north Texas is competitive with USF and UCF on budgets.......from 2005...

I will link page 4 of the above thread again because it contains some great post from 5 years ago

here is another good one from way back in 2006 haha...2006!!

boy you know where this is going to go!

are we having fun waiting yet?......and it has been uh.....um....uh.....2 years......so I am just letting you know....

and about those "insider sources" that are "verified"...

so we have secret recruiting.....secret fundraising.......secret athletics fee increases.....and now secret baseball!!

was that a hit or a strike.....I don't know it is a secret

so nearly 7 years ago baseball was said to be coming by 4 years ago and it is still not here and now is said to be coming in 2014 or 2015 and the athletics fee has still not been raised (but shhhhh EJ no longer wants us to talk about that any longer)

there is no huge extra money from the current fee for other things besides the stajium bonds (Chuck Neinas has always been full of crap there is millions available) and there have been no big sellouts at Apogee and we know all the club seats have not been sold because there was a long thread on here where some people were angry because some fans had been invited up to sit in the club seats (as a sales point by SexyTime) and those that had donated and bought club seats were mad and wondering why they had paid for something that others were getting for free

meanwhile down I-35

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTSA_Roadrunners_football

In February 2006, the University of Texas at San Antonio approached Carr Sports Associates, Inc. to conduct a feasibility study and make recommendations to the university regarding an expansion of the athletics department

the university facilitated a student referendum in September 2007 to gauge support for a fee increase

On February 4, 2009, former Miami Hurricanes head coach Larry Coker announced he had applied for the head coaching job

However in late January 2010, Hickey stated that the football program would attempt to join the Division I FBS subdivision by 2014 instead, citing an overall disappointment for previous plans.

On November 10, 2010, it was reported that the WAC had offered UTSA, along with fellow Southland conference member Texas State and Sun Belt Conference member Denver an invitation to join its conference that would take effect in 2012.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7866383/utsa-roadrunners-poised-exit-wac-conference-usa

Conference USA is set to bring aboard Texas-San Antonio

Future opponents

I will let you read the list of future HOME and away opponents on your own

and everyone is free to believe anyone they wish to believe no matter how big of a ten pounder they are in a five pound bag and no matter how often the say they are right (without ever really back it up) and then ignore when the truth comes out and they are wrong and no matter how many cute GIFs and little sayings and petty attempted comments about failing out or "she" or the like they use to try and prove their points VS using actual reality and then being shown to be wrong or being show to be way off base and way out in left field with their hugely inflated predictions and time lines

hey if that is what works for you and gets you excited and you like to have those same conversations over and over and listen to those same insider sources say things are happening and just you want and the like....hey whatever floats your boat

but then when reality sets in I suppose you can have fun starting that conversation all over again and going down the same path and even ignoring your own calls for everyone to make it known about how things are being done and how others are actually DOING more VS just talking about doing it or debating if it can even be done or coming around and letting everyone know why your insider sources told you it was not going to be done even though it could be done and everyone else does it

http://www.online-literature.com/tolstoy/war_and_peace/2/

[PlummMeanGreen]

Part 2:

Budgets, smudgets, fudgets and anyone who thinks they can break the spirits of true 'greenbloods' with any combination of numbers mean't to discourage.

For most of us who call UNT "our school" criticism of our school on GMG.com (by even our own from time to time) should most times be taken as that of a constructive nature even when it doesn't look any where close to it. Yet to care enough to express an opinion one way or another is IMHO a healthy thing since there are probably well over 200,000 DFW alums many of whom have not been back to Denton since they left with a degree who don't care one way or the other. If half of that group would have cared the last 50 or so years North Texas would probably be in the Big 12 today.

Still when the Green Brigade strikes up our alma mater "Glory to the Green" most every one of us to the person on GoMeanGreen.com can look around and see fellow posters standing up out of respect (even a degree of reverence) while at the same time each of us most likely reminiscing about the marvelous memories North Texas gives us and what the heck...even some of us singing fellow alum Julia Smith's composition of "Glory to the Green" word for word--sometimes even hitting a few of the right notes here and there as well.

There is just something besides North Texas Mean Green athletics that pulls us in like a magnet to our Denton-based alma mater because in many way don't most of us re-live the happy times of our young adulthood most every trip to Denton, Texas, America, we make? You ever catch yourself going back to those old familiar places from a past gone by in Denton?

Post all our of college days many times have not always been a bowl of cherries but sometimes....too many times a bowl of cherry pits but at least we still have our second home; that is, Denton, Texas, USA, to come home to and bask in those good times again. It's almost a phenomena how all this happens so come on now.......................who is it out there that possibly thinks they have the power to break our spirits and replace it with something far less inferior?

So it's Glory To The Green to all of UNT's supporters & enthusiasts because the best is yet to come and don't most all of us feel that? Still there is no one alive who can ever take that away from any of us who feel quite at home at UNT and Denton no matter how hard or how long they try. Honestly, I can't wait to see many of my fellow UNT & Mean Green enthusiasts come this August 31'st and that whether we agree or disagree on all these things we post on this forum, too.

GMG!

Edited June 17, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNTflyer]

OH, I GET IT NOW! I'm sorry, I really haven't posted much lately.

You are the whiny little bitch who stormed into the NT Daily office and demanded that my posts that exposed your true identity be removed from their website.

And when they said no, you threatened to call the Denton police.

But hey, way to dig up stuff from 5 years ago that was clearly board talk about who MIGHT be a sponsor or how much money the fee might generate.

That is absolutely relevant to interpreting the meaning of subsection G, which any first year law student can understand.

Edited June 18, 2013 by UNTflyer

[UNTflyer]

BTW, do you have a job?

[cdizzle86]

This is getting good.

[UNTflyer]

I will be the first to admit that some of my speculation was a bit off. No, we didn't get a $20 million deal with Coke, we got a $17 million deal with Apogee.

But I'll go out on a limb and say that my predictions on the athletic fee, the building of the stadium, the naming rights, and moving to a new conference were far more accurate than your doom and gloom predictions of the time.

What I don't get is that here we are, nearly four years after this all began and we are in a much better position than we were when this thing first started. Except for you - you're still a miserable, antagonistic, cynical defeatist.

[JesseMartin]

You are the whiny little bitch who stormed into the NT Daily office and demanded that my posts that exposed your true identity be removed from their website.

See, there are benefits to not having a "secret identity" online

BTW, does anyone know who he is referring to as "SexyTime"? I thought maybe it was Rick V because of his superbly famous mustache, but no, he's Pizza Man or something. And it's not me, because I haven't been around in a few years. But if whoever this person is leaves campus, can I maybe be SexyTime? I promise to live up to it..."I may not be sexy all the time, but when I'm around, everybody knows it's SexyTime!"

[forevereagle]

See, there are benefits to not having a "secret identity" online

BTW, does anyone know who he is referring to as "SexyTime"? I thought maybe it was Rick V because of his superbly famous mustache, but no, he's Pizza Man or something. And it's not me, because I haven't been around in a few years. But if whoever this person is leaves campus, can I maybe be SexyTime? I promise to live up to it..."I may not be sexy all the time, but when I'm around, everybody knows it's SexyTime!"

You actually read that crap?

[JesseMartin]

I skim

[untjim1995]

I will be the first to admit that some of my speculation was a bit off. No, we didn't get a $20 million deal with Coke, we got a $17 million deal with Apogee.

But I'll go out on a limb and say that my predictions on the athletic fee, the building of the stadium, the naming rights, and moving to a new conference were far more accurate than your doom and gloom predictions of the time.

What I don't get is that here we are, nearly four years after this all began and we are in a much better position than we were when this thing first started. Except for you - you're still a miserable, antagonistic, cynical defeatist.

This guy is the perfect example of what is produced by the anti-athletics mindset of UNT. He bitches all the time, tries to amke us feel stupid for even putting one cent toward athletics that we are surely going to fail at, and then he bloviates about how great SMU, UTSA, UH, etc...all are versus little ol' North Texas.

He's a real tool, one that is perfect for the ignore feature of this site...