Can UNT improve its efficiency offensively?

[Harry]

Over the course of a season, there are always turning points or highlights one looks back on.

Last season, on the positive side, there was Antoinne Jimmerson’s long catch-and-run for a touchdown that gave UNT a win over Louisiana-Lafayette on national TV and Hilbert Jackson breaking up a fourth-down pass late in the fourth quarter that gave UNT a win over Florida Atlantic.

On the other end, UNT blew a ton of chances, missed three field goals and failed to convert two red zone opportunities in a 14-7 loss to Troy.

And that brings us to question No. 6 in our off-season series: Can UNT improve its efficiency offensively?

A look across the board shows that UNT didn’t resemble a well-oiled machine at times last year. UNT ranked ninth out of 10 teams in the Sun Belt in completion percentage (57.1), passing efficiency (121.0 rating), third-down conversion percentage (33.1) and was last in red zone offense (71.4 conversion percentage).

The easy thing to do is place all the blame on the offensive coordinator and the quarterback. I’m sure both Mike Canales would like to change a call or two and Derek Thompson a throw or two, but UNT’s problems were deeper than that.

read more: http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2013/06/post-spring-questions-series-no-5-can-unt-improve-its-efficiency-offensively.html/

[greenminer]

You know, with a few more inches going our way, we coulda beat LSU.

[North Texas Shep]

Do we know what the offensive plan is for this next season? Is there a plan to change anything from last year?

[ragpicker]

Yes, no, no, Don't know, yes, yes.

[BillySee58]

With DT at QB? No.

That's what I'm thinking. To me, the weapons are in place for him. Gotta have a short leash on DT if he's struggling at the beginning of the year. Tired of all these excuses.

[UNT86]

I think the offense will be improved. It tells you a lot about the WR depth when a true freshman is playing in the five wide. He also was the replacement when BC went down. He should be better and be on the field with BC this year. That puts two playmakers out there instead of one and already the offense is better.

Also, I think the playcalling was conservative with Derek at QB because without him, we didn't have ANY chance. We did not have a backup anywhere near ready. After the spring McNulty had, look for the offense to open up for Thompson a little. He should have some of the runs Riley used to get. He isn't any kind of gamebreaker with the ball, but he can keep us out of 3rd and long by being involved in the running game on 1st and 2nd downs. That by itself will improve most of the stats mentioned before.

[adman]

Do we know what the offensive plan is for this next season? Is there a plan to change anything from last year?

We know that Mac & Co are planning on running the QB more - rollouts, zone reads, etc etc. We know 2 of 3 QBs with the team in some capacity last season are QB's that running could be considered a strength or at the very least are somewhat capable of keeping D's honest with their feet.

Edited June 11, 2013 by adman

[PlummMeanGreen]

We know that Mac & Co are planning on running the QB more - rollouts, zone reads, etc etc. We know 2 of 3 QBs with the team in some capacity last season are QB's that running could be considered a strength or at the very least are somewhat capable of keeping D's honest with their feet.

We will have a running game by a committee of running backs so how's about a two-QB system? Not most of ours preference but since we're still weeks from the Idaho game something to kick around on this thread.

Best case would be that Derek Thompson's last year of elgibility would be a real career year for him while we'd still have 2 under-studies who would still be...studying. If Brock Bergland's talent takes off like a rocket during 2-a-days then many would say all bets would be off for a 2-QB system.

Yet what will Brock Berglund do his first Fall in Denton? Any fortune tellers out there? He had some nice Rivals and Scout recruiting service rating stars. Lets see if those rating stars translate as a leading CUSA QB as we all hope they will.

How many of us early on saw former Mean Green QB Scott Hall developing at the level that he did? Hall led the Mean Green to a 52-14 Fouts Field win over the Big 12’s Baylor, and lost only a single Sun Belt game in his career. Only one other QB in school history led the Mean Green in passing four years. Hall will always be remembered fondly by the Mean Green Nation as not just a great quarterback, but a winner.

From the not always reliable B.R. but they do offer some food for thought on the subject of a 2-QB system: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1533026-10-college-football-programs-that-should-run-a-2-qb-system

There are three good reasons to run a two-quarterback system and one bad one:

1. You have two great quarterbacks with different styles of play. (Good)

2. You have no idea how your quarterbacks play in real games, and you need to find out before you commit to one. (Good)

3. You have a great quarterback and a good one, but the great one is leaving soon. (Good)

4. Both your quarterbacks are terrible, and you really are just grasping at straws to find a win. (Bad)

GMG!

Edited June 11, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[FirefightnRick]

Depends if we decide to use the tightend over the middle as a recieving threat or not?

Rick

[BillySee58]

Depends if we decide to use the tightend over the middle as a recieving threat or not?

Rick

This is the reason we have Darius Terrell at slot.

[adman]

We will have a running game by a committee of running backs so how's about a two-QB system? Not most of ours preference but since we're still weeks from the Idaho game something to kick around on this thread.

Best case would be that Derek Thompson's last year of elgibility would be a real career year for him while we'd still have 2 under-studies who would still be...studying. If Brock Bergland's talent takes off like a rocket during 2-a-days then many would say all bets would be off for a 2-QB system.

Yet what will Brock Berglund do his first Fall in Denton? Any fortune tellers out there? He had some nice Rivals and Scout recruiting service rating stars. Lets see if those rating stars translate as a leading CUSA QB as we all hope they will.

How many of us early on saw former Mean Green QB Scott Hall developing at the level that he did? Hall led the Mean Green to a 52-14 Fouts Field win over the Big 12’s Baylor, and lost only a single Sun Belt game in his career. Only one other QB in school history led the Mean Green in passing four years. Hall will always be remembered fondly by the Mean Green Nation as not just a great quarterback, but a winner.

From the not always reliable B.R. but they do offer some food for thought on the subject of a 2-QB system: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1533026-10-college-football-programs-that-should-run-a-2-qb-system

There are three good reasons to run a two-quarterback system and one bad one:

1. You have two great quarterbacks with different styles of play. (Good)

2. You have no idea how your quarterbacks play in real games, and you need to find out before you commit to one. (Good)

3. You have a great quarterback and a good one, but the great one is leaving soon. (Good)

4. Both your quarterbacks are terrible, and you really are just grasping at straws to find a win. (Bad)

GMG!

You realize Scott Hall threw zero TD's in that Baylor game right?

Mean Green D and a punishing running game with something like 300+ yards rushing is what destroyed Baylor - not Scott Hall.

Nice guy. Glad he played for us but vastly overrated as a QB by many on this board.

DT in the huddle of those Dickey teams would have had similar success.

Our D is what led us to 4 conf championships. Our D kept us in games against some fierce competition but our lack of QB and anything resembling serious speed as a WR during those bowl years kept us from pulling any upset against the UT's of the world.

Go ahead and start the negs.

[greenminer]

You realize Scott Hall threw zero TD's in that Baylor game right?

Mean Green D and a punishing running game with something like 300+ yards rushing is what destroyed Baylor - not Scott Hall.

Nice guy. Glad he played for us but vastly overrated as a QB by many on this board.

DT in the huddle of those Dickey teams would have had similar success.

Our D is what led us to 4 conf championships. Our D kept us in games against some fierce competition but our lack of QB and anything resembling serious speed as a WR during those bowl years kept us from pulling any upset against the UT's of the world.

Go ahead and start the negs.

DT might have also thrown 3 picks and misfired on all those play action passes for 15+ yards that opened up the D that day. You can thank Andrew Smith and Scott for that, regardless of the system.

Or, DT might have managed that game just as well or better. At least with Scott and Andrew, we knew what we were getting each week. We also had at least one WR that could catch a 20 yard ball. Nwigwe wasn't exactly a sloth, if I remember correctly.

This is all speculation, and does nothing to change my opinion of Hall, Smith or DT. Sorry.

Agree with everything said about the D. +1 for that.

Edited June 11, 2013 by greenminer

[SilverEagle]

You realize Scott Hall threw zero TD's in that Baylor game right?

Mean Green D and a punishing running game with something like 300+ yards rushing is what destroyed Baylor - not Scott Hall.

Nice guy. Glad he played for us but vastly overrated as a QB by many on this board.

DT in the huddle of those Dickey teams would have had similar success.

Our D is what led us to 4 conf championships. Our D kept us in games against some fierce competition but our lack of QB and anything resembling serious speed as a WR during those bowl years kept us from pulling any upset against the UT's of the world.

Go ahead and start the negs.

I tend to agree with you about the WR situation, and it's impact on how we did against the UT's of that era. I totally disagree about Scott Hall. He had the numbers and the "intangible" of leadership. However, I would suggest that another of the reasons that we didn't do well against the UT's of the world was DD's unwillingness to play them as hard as conference games.

Our D was certainly a big factor, but so was our offensive line and running game during that era. You don't have 1K rushers four years in a row, AND everyone in the stadium knowing it's coming, unless you have an above average OL.

[Harry]

Depends if we decide to use the tightend over the middle as a recieving threat or not?

Rick

Remember this name: Chris Loving

Guy could be real special here. Juco transfer coming in the Fall.

[untjim1995]

I tend to agree with you about the WR situation, and it's impact on how we did against the UT's of that era. I totally disagree about Scott Hall. He had the numbers and the "intangible" of leadership. However, I would suggest that another of the reasons that we didn't do well against the UT's of the world was DD's unwillingness to play them as hard as conference games.

Our D was certainly a big factor, but so was our offensive line and running game during that era. You don't have 1K rushers four years in a row, AND everyone in the stadium knowing it's coming, unless you have an above average OL.

Your point about DD's coaching against the UTs of the world is spot-on. We always ran the ball alot anyway, but when we played anyone outside of the SBC, our gampelan was to just run out the clock as soon as possible, so as to avoid injuries and collect the check. In some ways, that attitude probably helped Dickey because the players were healthier for the SBC games that he made his way with as our head coach. But that was so short sighted--seriously, a 27-0 loss at a top five UT and a 37-3 loss at #1 OU in back-to-back seasons are looked back on in much higher regard than beating any SBC team of the time. As a matter of fact, only the wins over Cincinnati and Baylor really resonate today with fans, although the the two NMSU games that provided a miracle win and a conference championship game at Fouts also are mentioned often. No other games stand out from that time because we beat teams no one cared about in an incredibly boring fashion.

That team's defense was stout and our running game was strong. We really never asked too much of the QB, other than just to make sure they handed the ball off or could make a play action pass. It was fun because we won, but it was really only meaningful to those of us who went to the games. We averaged around 15k at Fouts during those years, and we got a few headlines for our running game, but when we looked out to the rest of the college football world, we were met with a huge "meh" from the media and other fans. The one time we played a bigger named OOC opponent at Fouts and won, it probably gave us more Texas exposure than I ever remember (2003 over Baylor). Other than that, we hosted Nicholls State as our one OOC home game in 2002, Florida Atlantic was considered OOC in 2004 (we lost) at home, and then we got prison raped by Tulsa at home in 2005, which started the downslide that we cannot seem to get out of today. That was why those years were both enjoyable and frustrating at the same time. But they sure beat the hell out of what we've endured since 2005.

[BillySee58]

Remember this name: Chris Loving

Guy could be real special here. Juco transfer coming in the Fall.

I agree, but we aren't counting on him to do a whole lot for us in the passing game. Not saying he can't, just saying I wouldn't expect a lot of catches for Loving. Coop Jones and Marcus Smith are the more likely receiving threats at tight end. Should be a fun position to watch.

[Harry]

Loving caught two passes for 12 yards last season. At 6-4, 265, Loving seems like a perfect candidate to replace Andrew Power, who was a terrific blocking tight end for UNT last season.

Loving said that UNT’s coaches have sold him on the idea that he can play a larger role in the passing game as well.

“The coaches said that I would be a pro-style tight end,” Loving said. “They like my ability to line up in the slot and said I could play a role in the passing game.”

read more: http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2013/01/taking-recruiting-with-chris-loving.html/

[BillySee58]

Loving caught two passes for 12 yards last season. At 6-4, 265, Loving seems like a perfect candidate to replace Andrew Power, who was a terrific blocking tight end for UNT last season.

Loving said that UNTs coaches have sold him on the idea that he can play a larger role in the passing game as well.

The coaches said that I would be a pro-style tight end, Loving said. They like my ability to line up in the slot and said I could play a role in the passing game.

read more: http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2013/01/taking-recruiting-with-chris-loving.html/

We'll see when he gets here. You can only take the things that coaches tell recruits with a grain of salt. They're usually at least partly true, but in recruiting you aren't going to tell a tight end that he won't ever get the ball thrown to him if you hope for him to pick you over K-State.

I think Loving starts for us so I imagine him getting around as many passes thrown to him as Power did, which was 14 catches last year and 16 the year before.

[Cerebus]

Nice guy. Glad he played for us but vastly overrated as a QB by many on this board.

DT in the huddle of those Dickey teams would have had similar success.

You are vastly under rating Scott Halls decision making and ability to read the defense and make the right throw. In his last two seasons, after missing a year to injury, his touchdown to interception ratio was 3 to 1. That is a great stat. That means he made the right decisions, knew when not to throw, and not only knew when to throw but got the ball where it needed to be.

In Derek Thompson's last two years that ratio has been 1.25 to 1. In case you're wondering, Riley Dodge's and Giovanni Vizza's rations were worse than 1 to 1.

If Derek Thompon's TD to Int ratio is 3-1 next year we are going to win a lot of games. If it's about 1.25 to 1 we probably aren't.

[adman]

You are vastly under rating Scott Halls decision making and ability to read the defense and make the right throw. In his last two seasons, after missing a year to injury, his touchdown to interception ratio was 3 to 1. That is a great stat. That means he made the right decisions, knew when not to throw, and not only knew when to throw but got the ball where it needed to be.

In Derek Thompson's last two years that ratio has been 1.25 to 1. In case you're wondering, Riley Dodge's and Giovanni Vizza's rations were worse than 1 to 1.

If Derek Thompon's TD to Int ratio is 3-1 next year we are going to win a lot of games. If it's about 1.25 to 1 we probably aren't.

Great and valid points. And again, Im not knocking Hall. I think he was good .(And I am giving DT too much credit.) But I think the style offense he was in charge of running coupled with a tenacious D is what made him so "great". Not because he was some sort of OMG QB/Leader of men.

Vito made it a point to call it out in his blog the other day that Hall was GREAT and that is why he is still being talked about 10 years later and how no one has ever come close to replacing him. But Vito and many others seem to forget that a RS Freshman came in and led the exact same team to an 8-5 record and BOWL WIN.

So was that luck? System? Was Andrew poised to be an even greater QB/Leader? Probably a little of the first, certainly some of the second who knows about the third but I think the simple fact that a RS freshman came in, had a winning season AND won his bowl game should temper the "Scott Hall was a great QB" cheers.

Edited June 12, 2013 by adman

[Harry]

You are vastly under rating Scott Halls decision making and ability to read the defense and make the right throw.

Amen... I sometimes feel like Ron Paul trying to win the election when you are espousing the greatness absolute greatness of Scott Hall these days. Why are people's memories are so damn short I don't know. Guy was a BIG TIME winner and leader of the program. Some of the crapthat's gone on around there the last 8 years would not have been tolerated by him or his teammates who all respected him immensely. He did it when we had jackcrap for facilities and coaching salaries.

[JesseMartin]

I would suggest that another of the reasons that we didn't do well against the UT's of the world was DD's unwillingness to play them as hard as conference games.

Our D was certainly a big factor, but so was our offensive line and running game during that era. You don't have 1K rushers four years in a row, AND everyone in the stadium knowing it's coming, unless you have an above average OL.

I kind of agreed with Dickey about it but also kind of disagree...on one hand, if you as a coach don't want to keep losing great players to injury playing a bunch of "bodybag" games, then find a common ground with a "name" team that would still be an upset if you won. Tech and Baylor were good examples of this. But when you consider the core of the reasoning...the point was to be able to stay healthy for conference games, attract better recruits, and grow the program. After a couple of years playing "careful" against your Top 10 opponents, if your plan worked, you should have the resources to be a bit more competitive. So I guess my point is that yes, it's fine to scale back the level of your OOC games for a couple of years to build a great conference record and go to a few bowls, but once you get that momentum, you need to push the ceiling a bit higher.

[FirefightnRick]

Remember this name: Chris Loving

Guy could be real special here. Juco transfer coming in the Fall.

I don't question the player, it's the guy calling the plays and the system he puts forth for the players to play in that has me concerned.

Having a tightend that gets a ball thrown to him now and then is one thing, using him as a true threat is another.

Again, just wait until the Rice game. Emmitt and I saw them first hand in the Armed Forces Bowl this past season and Mean Green fans will get a chance to see their system this year. They know how to dagger a defense with the TE as all three of their TE's from last season, Luke Wilson, Vance McDonald and Taylor Cook, were all either drafted or signed to play on Sunday's this next year. And we will see first hand what their replacements can do this fall. I only hope the guy on our side of the field will be taking good notes by then?

Rick

Edited June 13, 2013 by FirefightnRick

[Mean_Green09]

We will have a running game by a committee of running backs so how's about a two-QB system? Not most of ours preference but since we're still weeks from the Idaho game something to kick around on this thread.

Best case would be that Derek Thompson's last year of elgibility would be a real career year for him while we'd still have 2 under-studies who would still be...studying. If Brock Bergland's talent takes off like a rocket during 2-a-days then many would say all bets would be off for a 2-QB system.

Yet what will Brock Berglund do his first Fall in Denton? Any fortune tellers out there? He had some nice Rivals and Scout recruiting service rating stars. Lets see if those rating stars translate as a leading CUSA QB as we all hope they will.

How many of us early on saw former Mean Green QB Scott Hall developing at the level that he did? Hall led the Mean Green to a 52-14 Fouts Field win over the Big 12’s Baylor, and lost only a single Sun Belt game in his career. Only one other QB in school history led the Mean Green in passing four years. Hall will always be remembered fondly by the Mean Green Nation as not just a great quarterback, but a winner.

From the not always reliable B.R. but they do offer some food for thought on the subject of a 2-QB system: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1533026-10-college-football-programs-that-should-run-a-2-qb-system

There are three good reasons to run a two-quarterback system and one bad one:

1. You have two great quarterbacks with different styles of play. (Good)

2. You have no idea how your quarterbacks play in real games, and you need to find out before you commit to one. (Good)

3. You have a great quarterback and a good one, but the great one is leaving soon. (Good)

4. Both your quarterbacks are terrible, and you really are just grasping at straws to find a win. (Bad)

GMG!

I'm sorry, but there are no good reasons to run a two-quarterback system. I can guarantee you that no coach above the high school level goes into a season thinking that his two qb system is going to bring success. Sure you may have a rare athlete back there who warrants some playing time just because he can take off running and make defenses look silly, but for the most part coaches want one guy. Look at your good reasons. If you have two different styles of play then you have to chose what style fits the rest of your team the best. You can't devote practice time to different styles of play, your team will never excel at one. Your second reason: No idea how QB's will play in real games andyou need to find out before you commit to one. Tell me how does your team or QB find a rythm with this? You might not get rolling till the 4th quarter when your down by 35. I don't see that being a good reason. If you have a great QB why the hell do you take him out the game? I understand if its a blow out, but honestly you dont see Tom Brady coming out of the game to get the back up some reps. Relate it to college even still never saw RG3 coming out the game to give Nick Florence some looks. Plain and simple you dont take great ones out unless they are hurt or you are taking someone to the wood shed.

Look there is no way that a 2 QB system is going to improve UNT's offensive efficiency. What is going to help is development of weapons around whoever is the starting QB. Better production on 1st down, whenever UNT didnt have a positive play on first down last year (3yrds +) they almost always punted. Better play from the QB position. I love the fact that UNT is going to spread it out a lil more and allow the QB's to run. Gives you the opportunity to pick up those extra series with a QB scramble on 3rd down.

[Mean_Green09]

I don't question the player, it's the guy calling the plays and the system he puts forth for the players to play in that has me concerned.

Having a tightend that gets a ball thrown to him now and then is one thing, using him as a true threat is another.

Again, just wait until the Rice game. Emmitt and I saw them first hand in the Armed Forces Bowl this past season and Mean Green fans will get a chance to see their system this year. They know how to dagger a defense with the TE as all three of their TE's from last season, Luke Wilson, Vance McDonald and Taylor Cook, were all either drafted or signed to play on Sunday's this next year. And we will see first hand their what replacements can do this fall. I only hope the guy on our side of the field will be taking good notes by then?

Rick

Wait till Rice see's us pull out the double reverse TE pass with Cooper Jones! Rice has had pretty good talent at the TE position the past few years. Would you be willing to say that we had the type of talent at TE last year? The type that could threaten defenses down the seem? I wouldnt we had more 6th offensive linemen than recieving threats. Lets hope these new guys we got can do both block and catch.