ODU Football Ups Revenue $2,000,000

LongJim · May 28, 2013

CougarKing

. The rest of you are the biggest group of losers I have ever seen in ANY college football fandom.

Dang!

Edited May 28, 2013 by LongJim

Eagle1855 · May 28, 2013

Dang!

I know. There goes my self-esteem for the day.

untjim1995 · May 28, 2013

Impressive # of season tickets.
We have had less than 8K in the first 2 years of Apogee COMBINED

Sometimes, after reading posts like this, I really wonder why we even stay at the FBS level. Just sad...

PlummMeanGreen · May 28, 2013

Sometimes, after reading posts like this, I really wonder why we even stay at the FBS level. Just sad...

untjim, because at some point we will all see what actual consecutive winning football seasons will do to cure most every form of cancer there is now in Mean Green Country. Many of us became Mean Green fans under such a scenario of multiple winning seasons; yet I realize many of you younger alums have never witnessed more than 3 winning seasons in a row, but it will happen again.

If "Ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas." (Dandy Don Meredith, MNF)

(1) If only we would have had the present over 700,000 population in Denton County (instead of 99,000 as Texas almanac reported as they even called Denton County "a rural county" back during my student days);

(2) if only we would have had the approx. 120,000 (last count) city of Denton population (instead of the 39,000 when I was a student);

(3) if only we would have a UNT student enrollment of over 36,000 with more living on and near campus than ever (instead of the 17,000 enrollment it was when I was a student with a large number of commuters) NOTE: Any of you remember those Transportation Enterprise buses unloading and loading students near the Baptist Student Union area back in the 70's?

(4) If only we would have had over 200,000 North Texas exes in the entire North Texas Metroplex as records now show (instead of whatever we had yester-year because quite frankly I don't think our school really got serious about alumnus record-keeping until about the time Fry left SMU for UNT...........as I do understand it, though, there were somme futile or failed efforts to form a North Texas alumnus associatoin before the Fry Era from what I've been told by older alums);

(5) And when we do win-baby-win before audiences commensurate to our present day growth compared to the 50's, 60's and 70's, then our daily critcs who at the moment love to strut their stuff and rub it in will slowly one by one disappear from GoMeanGreen.com and another reason which could facilitate an even earlier exit by our daily critics could be because some of their own schools may have fallen on hard times in the W/L columns. Amazing how the pendelum seems to turn creating such scenarios in the NCAA....heck, look at the USM Golden Eagles albeit I believe they will turn their around quite quickly. They just don't sit too long on bad hires in Hattiesburgh.

GMG!

PS: North Texas still needs to swallow a little pride and learn what they can from upstart UTSA's football marketing program especially because in the Metroplex there are 1,000 other things you can do on Game Day..

Edited May 29, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

Eagle1855 · May 28, 2013

Sometimes, after reading posts like this, I really wonder why we even stay at the FBS level. Just sad...

If we just started a football program after decades of not having one, we'd sell a sh*t-ton of tickets, too. Just watch what happens with baseball.

We'll see how they're doing at Year Five. Same for UTSA, Lamar, et al. They've got the benefit of not sucking for a long period of time- which eventually chokes out even the most faithful of fandom.

UH spent a lot of time not drawing anyone to any of their games, so I'm not sure where the condescending attitude is coming from. I guess there are still a lot of fans who "remember what once was" but in reality, never existed. Even in the 70's, playing with (and beating, I might add) the "Big Boys", UH still only managed to average 45k (the capacity of the Astrodome, where UH played for some 30 years)... ONE TIME (to the best of my knowledge -- which is admittedly limited). And then it was a steady downhill decline into the early 2000's.

I'm not saying this to bag on the Houston program -- I have a particular affinity for it, having grown up watching Andre Ware and David Klingler, and in fact still attend a couple games a year -- I'm just saying the U of Houston largely isn't supported by the community unless they're winning (even UTEP averaged more fans this past year). The same can be said of North Texas.

That we even averaged 19k the past two seasons after what we've fielded and who we have played at home over the past decade is impressive to me. Can anyone argue Houston's attendance would have have fared any better in the Sun Belt conference after a decade of losing?

But that doesn't matter -- they're doing it now. And we need to do the same. We are an ADD society; five years of consistent winning completely changes the public's perception of a program.

Here are the facts:

We haven't beaten a ranked opponent since...?

We haven't beaten a single BCS Conference team not named Baylor (3-9) or Indiana (1-11) since Texas Tech (6-5) in 1999- almost 14 years ago.

We haven't been ranked (in Div 1) since what, 1977?

We are what we are. But we hope for what we'll someday be. We've had a taste, but we've not been able to do any of with any sort of consistency. And consistency is what changes the face of a program and the culture of a university.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Eagle1855

Aquila_Viridis · May 29, 2013

I agree with the part about firing the AD and being ashamed. Do you realize how much bigger North Texas is than some of the schools it can't compete with? I do not agree with anyone saying Houston has better academics. Basically in the grand scheme of college rankings they are both crap schools. Frankly so is TCU just not quite as bad. Academically TCU is about as good as Tennessee. Wow that's some lofty heights. Get out of here. Here is the problem for UNT sports. UNT IS a 'commuter' school. The reason I say so is that as student, I never felt like I had to join some cult to get a degree. And at the time that is EXACTLY what I needed: a place that was there to allow me to achieve a goal, like a workplace, that did not make me feel like my whole life was wrapped up in the place, even in the times I lived on campus. I went on to Virginia and while there were many people there I really liked, I was back in that 'all or nothing' kind of a place like Missouri and that made me not like the school experience (leaving aside the social experience) and that was in GRADUATE school. VIrginia is no real high water mark for sports but I think most of us would feel good about UNT having a sports program at that level. However UNT is not ever going to be a comparable school from a student experience standpoint and I am starting to think maybe it should not aspire to be that. I don't know exactly what that means for the UNT sports program but as a student I found it to be an annoyance. As an alumnus I have found it to be largely a disappointment and embarassment. I am about done with trying to help it to be a tool to transform UNT into something that maybe UNT should not be. It is likely anyway that UNT sports will never be successful without that transformation occurring first. UNT had made a choice back in the 80s when I was there. Maybe all this frustration is because at some point that choice was reversed but not with conviction, and a giant mess ensued.

meangreener · May 29, 2013

I agree with the part about firing the AD and being ashamed. Do you realize how much bigger North Texas is than some of the schools it can't compete with? I do not agree with anyone saying Houston has better academics. Basically in the grand scheme of college rankings they are both crap schools. Frankly so is TCU just not quite as bad. Academically TCU is about as good as Tennessee. Wow that's some lofty heights. Get out of here. Here is the problem for UNT sports. UNT IS a 'commuter' school. The reason I say so is that as student, I never felt like I had to join some cult to get a degree. And at the time that is EXACTLY what I needed: a place that was there to allow me to achieve a goal, like a workplace, that did not make me feel like my whole life was wrapped up in the place, even in the times I lived on campus. I went on to Virginia and while there were many people there I really liked, I was back in that 'all or nothing' kind of a place like Missouri and that made me not like the school experience (leaving aside the social experience) and that was in GRADUATE school. VIrginia is no real high water mark for sports but I think most of us would feel good about UNT having a sports program at that level. However UNT is not ever going to be a comparable school from a student experience standpoint and I am starting to think maybe it should not aspire to be that. I don't know exactly what that means for the UNT sports program but as a student I found it to be an annoyance. As an alumnus I have found it to be largely a disappointment and embarassment. I am about done with trying to help it to be a tool to transform UNT into something that maybe UNT should not be. It is likely anyway that UNT sports will never be successful without that transformation occurring first. UNT had made a choice back in the 80s when I was there. Maybe all this frustration is because at some point that choice was reversed but not with conviction, and a giant mess ensued.

UNT was a commuter school.

If you were a student in the 80s, campus has changed immensely since then.

Hell, it's changed from my freshman year when I felt quite underwhelmed by the school and the atmosphere.

Like I've said many times before, the mentality has changed. The performance hasn't. The current students and young alums don't feel that commuter school mentality, the ugh-who-cares-go-Whorns, mentality because our administration has done a lot to get rid of that. But the problem is that we still suck like we have in the past, so the mentality is ugh-we-always-suck-go-Whorns.

There's a ton of PRIDE on the campus and we need to win to capitalize on it. Now. Apogee was the final puzzle piece that got students engaged on campus. Just win, baby.

What happened in the early 2000s with us winning and nobody showing up was a product of an apathetic administration about student body, engagement and athletics...it's much different now. All the comments about beating teams that matter...I don't think that matters at all. Our basketball attendance has been pretty good recently (before last year) beating mostly irrelevant teams and we would sell a ton of tickets for the occasional local team. For a team that was "so great" but only managed two NCAA appearances but regularly led the SBC in basketball attendance, fans will show up. Our attendance is at 18K now...winning would give some heft, maybe put us in the mid-20s. We pull decent numbers the first few games, until we start losing every year.

There is no way that if we win we will still only pull 17K to games...considering we average 18K and have been the worst/near the bottom in the FBS for 7-8 years. Our current attendance is proof that the mentality has changed. Where's the performance?

It's definitely a flat out outdated view of UNT to call it a commuter school. The SGA set up a "police force" that goes around and gives "tickets" to people during football season wearing other school gear so they can go trade their shirt in for a UNT shirt for free, if they give up their other school shirt. That's not the actions of a student body of a commuter school. The administration gave funding to the bookstore to back this "police" thing up. It was amusing.

I think Bataille was forced out due to the fact that she was OK with being a commuter school. UNT administration is doing their damndest to wipe out the commuter school tag and have done a miraculous job, even if they don't care for athletics as much as they like to pretend.

Edited May 29, 2013 by meangreener

untjim1995 · May 29, 2013

untjim, because at some point we will all see what actual consecutive winning football seasons will do to cure most every form of cancer there is now in Mean Green Country. Many of us became Mean Green fans under such a scenario of multiple winning seasons; yet I realize many of you younger alums have never witnessed more than 3 winning seasons in a row, but it will happen again.

If "Ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas." (Dandy Don Meredith, MNF)

(1) If only we would have had the present over 700,000 population in Denton County (instead of 99,000 as Texas almanac reported as they even called Denton County "a rural county" back during my student days);

(2) if only we would have had the approx. 120,000 (last count) city of Denton population (instead of the 39,000 when I was a student);

(3) if only we would have a UNT student enrollment of over 36,000 with more living on and near campus than ever (instead of the 17,000 enrollment it was when I was a student with a large number of commuters) NOTE: Any of you remember those Transportation Enterprise buses unloading and loading students near the Baptist Student Union area back in the 70's?

(4) If only we would have had over 200,000 North Texas exes in the entire North Texas Metroplex as records now show (instead of whatever we had yester-year because quite frankly I don't think our school really got serious about alumnus record-keeping until about the time Fry left SMU for UNT...........as I do understand it, though, there were somme futile or failed efforts to form a North Texas alumnus associatoin before the Fry Era from what I've been told by older alums);

(5) And when we do win-baby-win before audiences commensurate to our present day growth compared to the 50's, 60's and 70's, then our daily critcs who at the moment love to strut their stuff and rub it in will slowly one by one disappear from GoMeanGreen.com and another reason which could facilitate an even earlier exit by our daily critics could be because some of their own schools may have fallen on hard times in the W/L columns. Amazing how the pendelum seems to turn creating such scenarios in the NCAA....heck, look at the USM Golden Eagles albeit I believe they will turn their around quite quickly. They just don't sit too long on bad hires in Hattiesburgh.

GMG!

PS: North Texas still needs to swallow a little pride and learn what they can from upstart UTSA's football marketing program especially because in the Metroplex there are 1,000 other things you can do on Game Day..

PMG,

I admire guys like you and Gray Eagle and SilverEagle who have stuck with this program after seeing some very good teams in the 60s and 70s. Its amazing to me that anyone could have put up with what the last 35 years have brought, save for the 1988 and 2001-2004 seasons.

But this is the part that just kills us for the current situation, keeping in mind that we don't have baseball, but I doubt it would've made this number any better.

Below are the average of winning percentages for the major colleges in Texas in football, men’s basketball and baseball for the 2012-13 seasons:

Texas A&M .641

Baylor .561

Texas .561

Houston .527

UTSA .505

SMU .492

Texas Tech .470

TCU .455

Rice .451

UTEP .409

Texas St .382

N. Texas .360

Its one season, but the money sports at North Texas were just abysmal in 2012-2013. Its a big reason that we cannot get decent media coverage and why so many just give up on even staying as a fan. Obviously, if we played UTSAs football schedule, we probably would've done a tad better, but that is not really the barometer that we need to be measuring against for our program. It just amazes me that the athletic director at a school with this record against its in-state peers isn't even remotely on the hot seat. Its like his opening up of tailgating and having the students figure out a way to build a new football stadium without getting him involved has made him golden in so many people's eyes around the university. To me, with the way basketball went after yet another awful hire, I am on record as saying he should be fired, or at least have a very hot seat that only cools if McCarney's team this fall finishes with 5 or more wins. But I know this is a view that is certainly in the minority, since RV is a helluva guy and people fall prey to helluva-guy-syndrome often, both in sports and in business. But there is no way that another school on that list would've kept the same AD in the timeframe that UNT has with RV. ANd that is why I'm giving this place 5 years to get this straightened out--unless we lose to UTSA this fall and nothing gets changed, which will end it for me at that time.

PlummMeanGreen · May 29, 2013

I agree with the part about firing the AD and being ashamed. Do you realize how much bigger North Texas is than some of the schools it can't compete with? I do not agree with anyone saying Houston has better academics. Basically in the grand scheme of college rankings they are both crap schools. Frankly so is TCU just not quite as bad. Academically TCU is about as good as Tennessee. Wow that's some lofty heights. Get out of here. Here is the problem for UNT sports. UNT IS a 'commuter' school. The reason I say so is that as student, I never felt like I had to join some cult to get a degree. And at the time that is EXACTLY what I needed: a place that was there to allow me to achieve a goal, like a workplace, that did not make me feel like my whole life was wrapped up in the place, even in the times I lived on campus. I went on to Virginia and while there were many people there I really liked, I was back in that 'all or nothing' kind of a place like Missouri and that made me not like the school experience (leaving aside the social experience) and that was in GRADUATE school. VIrginia is no real high water mark for sports but I think most of us would feel good about UNT having a sports program at that level. However UNT is not ever going to be a comparable school from a student experience standpoint and I am starting to think maybe it should not aspire to be that. I don't know exactly what that means for the UNT sports program but as a student I found it to be an annoyance. As an alumnus I have found it to be largely a disappointment and embarassment. I am about done with trying to help it to be a tool to transform UNT into something that maybe UNT should not be. It is likely anyway that UNT sports will never be successful without that transformation occurring first. UNT had made a choice back in the 80s when I was there. Maybe all this frustration is because at some point that choice was reversed but not with conviction, and a giant mess ensued.

Yes, a giant mess in deed ensued, A_V, but I am from the old school that says if one group cannot make it happen as far as North Texas athletics is concerned then another group might sure can. There is really quite a bit of talent out there in NCAA land.

Yet one, ie, anyone shouldn't give up our entire store because of one group who cannot make it happen in Denton. Our constant losing has caused many to give up on just about everything that pertains to North Texas like....even the cheerleaders don't look as pretty as they used to, the Green Brigade doesn't sound quite as good as it used to; the color green we're using now makes me want to puke, etc, etc, etc, (and I only use those aforementioned as examples because I don't personally feel that way about each)................but on the other side of the coin is how winning will make all quite well on the northern Texas front.

Only last decade we did go to 4 NO's Bowl games in a row. North Texas has also not had the same kind of football seasons losing streak SMU did when they first entered CUSA (like in a 2 1/2 decade losing streak)................... nor the almost 80 years of bad luck Kansas State football had before Bill Snyder took over. NOTE: Bing or Google the Wildcats W/L records back then if you think we've had it so bad.

Southern MIss gave a recent football coach 1 year to make it happen until they knew they had made a mistake in that hire and fired him after 1 year. (I guess those "0" wins last football season got their alums and fans dander up a tad, right)?

GMG!

PS: Commuter school? UT-Austin is more of a commuter school than North Texas according to the father of a Texas Ex who posts on GMG.com.

Edited May 29, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

letsgiveacheer · May 29, 2013

"admire guys like you and Gray Eagle and SilverEagle who have stuck with this program after seeing some very good teams in the 60s and 70s. Its amazing to me that anyone could have put up with what the last 35 years have brought, save for the 1988 and 2001-2004 seasons."

This made me think about things and I looked up our records since I began following North Texas football in 1971. In 42 years of being an avid fan, I've seen only 14 winning seasons! Something's wrong here, folks! Maybe its me?

untjim1995 · May 29, 2013

"admire guys like you and Gray Eagle and SilverEagle who have stuck with this program after seeing some very good teams in the 60s and 70s. Its amazing to me that anyone could have put up with what the last 35 years have brought, save for the 1988 and 2001-2004 seasons."

This made me think about things and I looked up our records since I began following North Texas football in 1971. In 42 years of being an avid fan, I've seen only 14 winning seasons! Something's wrong here, folks! Maybe its me?

Think of it this way--you saw North Texas at its best in the middle 70s. Over the last 35 years, we lost our HOF coach, who managed to have 4 of the 7 winning FBS (I-A) seasons that we have had since 1970, hired 8 coaches since then, one of which (Corky Nelson) did as much as he could possibly do with absolutely no support during the ridiculous 1-aa years, only to be fired and replaced by a freaking high school coach (Dennis Parker) who would win 11 games in 3 years. Then, when we finally got a decent team again from 2002-2004, our program fell backwards and we replaced Darrell Dickey, who had the other 3 winning seasons since 1970, with another freaking high school coach (Todd Dodge) who won 6 games in 3.5 years. We have hired 6 assistant coaches (Jerry Moore, Bob Tyler, Corky Nelson, Matt Simon, Darrell Dickey, and Chico) who combined to go 112-154-2. We hired 2 high school coaches who went 17-57-1 (just makes me mad typing that...). And now, we have hired a guy who had been a previous head coach at a FBS school in Dan McCarney and he has a 9-15 record so far. That means we have gone 138-226-3 in the last 35 years, for a winning percentage of .376.

Since we came back up to life from the i-aa purgatory in 1995, our overall record is 70-141, for a winning percentage of .332.

I love PMG and others for posting about our glory years, but the fact remains that since 1970, our football program has had one great stretch of success and one good stretch of success that got some attention from the rest of the college football world (1975-1978 and 2002-2004). Otherwise, we are just a huge bag of suck at football, whether its pre 1-aa, post 1-aa, or all-inclusive from 1970 thru 2012. Can it change? Of course it can. But its easy to understand how we cannot get decent recruiting classes to come here--all these recruits have known about UNT Football, as well as their parents and coaches have known, is that we just don't win at football in Denton. Its going to take a coach who can literally turn no-stars, 1-stars, and 2 stars into guys who can become much better. That is supposed to be coach Mac's strength, which he did at Iowa State. If he cannot do it here, I'm not sure anyone can do it.

PlummMeanGreen · May 29, 2013

It's been our hirings at North Texas which have kept this program barefoot and pregnant (so to speak). We could have actually hired SWTSU Coach Dennis Francione but our football Einsteins in Denton chose Dennis Parker instead.

It's just been decade after decade of a comedy of hiring errors except few of us on this forum have done too much laughing.

Funny thing now is how I'm feeling real good about Coach Mac's 3'rd year at UNT. I think the major college football experience as a HFC in the Big 12 is beginning to show even if he had a slow start recruiting Rival 3 stars. Lest all have forgotten, we should all remember what lion's den this poor guy came into with a whole bunch of sludge left behind by a few of his predecessors.

GMG!

PS: And letsgiveacheer, your fellow older alums (and I'm sure many younger ones) do admire your tenacity in following all this in Mean Green Country, too.

Edited May 29, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

untjim1995 · May 30, 2013

It's been our hirings at North Texas which have kept this program barefoot and pregnant (so to speak). We could have actually hired SWTSU Coach Dennis Francione but our football Einsteins in Denton chose Dennis Parker instead.

It's just been decade after decade of a comedy of hiring errors except few of us on this forum have done too much laughing.

Funny thing now is how I'm feeling real good about Coach Mac's 3'rd year at UNT. I think the major college football experience as a HFC in the Big 12 is beginning to show even if he had a slow start recruiting Rival 3 stars. Lest all have forgotten, we should all remember what lion's den this poor guy came into with a whole bunch of sludge left behind by a few of his predecessors.

GMG!

PS: And letsgiveacheer, your fellow older alums (and I'm sure many younger ones) do admire your tenacity in following all this in Mean Green Country, too.

PMG,

I agree on the state of the program today under Coach Mac. I actually believe that we are very close to turning the corner and I know that he realizes he has to get things going here this year or next year will be his last one as a head coach ever again. He has too much self-respect to let this just fall apart. He took over a situation that in my mind is the absolute worst that a coach can take over. A program that was full of losing, with no defensive talent and very little depth, especially on the lines. Dodge's system is the polar opposite of his. That he has coaxed 9 wins out of this bunch with the injuries, lack of depth, and overall lack of talent is at least a step in the right direction. That is how low the bar got in Denton. But now that he has been here for the last 3 years, the strength and depth of the team have improved greatly, even if the talent on the team is still not where we need it to be. The program is at least competitive withother SBCUSA teams now. Remember when SBC teams would just beat the ever-living dogcrap out of us at Fouts? If it hadn't been for Western Kentucky moving up to FBS, Todd Dodge would've won two games in 3 years. FIU, MUTS, ULM, etc...they just urinated on us. Now, they may still do that, but we are at least competitive enough to tackle someone one and make them believe they aren't playing a high school team. To this day, that loss to Rice in Houston, 77-20, remains our low point. Rice could've scored a 100+ easy if they hadn't called off the dogs in the 2nd half. All of this is what Coach Mac had to take over. A mentality of not just losing, but that losing is who you are and that we cannot ever be better--that is the line of thinking that the administration has carried around here for decades, but when the players get that in their system, its disastrous. That is what Coach Mac is changing. His recruiting has been below par with HS recruits, but that may not be anything they can change until we win here. We do seem to do well with transfers, both from JC and other schools, so that has helped him. Johnny Jones did the same thing with his hoops program, too, in attracting transfers. I still believe in Coach Mac big time. I don't believe in his boss anymore, nor do I believe that the university's leadership cares about winning in football at a level that most of this board wants to see, but I do think Coach Mac can turn this around and be here for a long time if his health holds up. And this program needs stability in such a big way, that this would be ideal for our entire team and fanbase to have a winner in place that is at an age where moving on to the next job up the ladder isn't really that likely. I will say it again, because I truly believe it--if Coach Mac cannot fix this here, with his reputation for rebuilding Iowa State back up from the dregs of college football, then I am convinced that no one can rebuild this place up.