NBA center Jason Collins comes out as gay

[GreenBat]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/magazine/news/20130429/jason-collins-gay-nba-player/

[Censored by Laurie]

Courage.

[NT03]

I would have never guessed he was 34. Seems like he just came out of college

[Eagle1855]

Courage.

Indeed. I don't know why so many people in the media and sports talk radio (you know, the apex of rational, informed debate) have endeavored to marginalize this proclamation by saying he's older, towards end of career, not a superstar, etc.

To them I'd say: who cares? I imagine this matters a great deal to the 15 year-old kid who doesn't feel he could ever play sports because of his sexual orientation, because he won't be accepted. Where being homosexual is likened to being "less of a man" or "less tough." I've got a couple friends, one of which is a Houston Firefighter whose manhood I certainly wouldn't question.

I'm with you: courageous first step.

[Green P1]

I think its great and all that... I just don't get that it's a big deal unless he plays in the league again. Didn't he just take the John Amaechi route?

[MeanGreenTexan]

Courage indeed.

But people need to stop with the Jackie Robinson comparisons.

Last I checked there weren't Jim Crow segregation laws enacted upon homosexuals. They've always been able to play sports with everyone else. Their acceptance may not be where society wants it to be, but there weren't 'homosexual leagues' created because the leagues refused to let gays play with straights.

Lets not even mention how the general public is reacting today VS when Jackie Robinson was signed. And I'll venture a guess that he'll hear about a hundred different kudos for every detractor... probably the exact opposite of what Jackie Robinson had to deal with (and probably with much less vitrol). If Mike Wallace's comment is the worst thing that is said, then this is almost a non-issue, but I really doubt it's anything close to what Robinson dealt with.

IMO, it's downplaying what Jackie Robinson did.

[TheTastyGreek]

IMO, it's downplaying what Jackie Robinson did.

Chicks?

[Legend500]

I think the Jackie Robinson comparison is clearly not apt, but its the best that can be done for those of us who cannot ever hope to understand the impact that such an event has on people we cannot sympathize with.

The whole "which group suffered more" argument is beside the point - in some ways, the suffering of gays is far worse than African Americans - it is much easier to deny who you are when there is nothing physically apparent to force the issue, but what effect does hiding in plain sight have upon a person? Both suffered unimaginable cruelty - African Americans endured slavery and gays endured the Holocaust, but this is not a contest as to who has suffered worse. In fact, there are some keen similarities - Loving v. Georgia and Hollingsworth v. Perry, the Jim Crow laws and United States v. Windsor. The battles have ended up in the courts because when the Legislative and Executive branches of either the Federal or State governments have decided to act out against a disfavored minority for no rational purpose, it is the Judiciary which holds the great responsibility of righting that wrong.

Jason Collins coming out is bigger than a name-only player. Collins may not have the name, but he seems to command the respect of his teammates and opponents - which is something far more valuable in the long run. It is men and women of astonishing courage such as Collins who will ultimately lead to a more perfect union for all of us. We owe him our thanks.

[MeanGreenTexan]

I think the Jackie Robinson comparison is clearly not apt, but its the best that can be done for those of us who cannot ever hope to understand the impact that such an event has on people we cannot sympathize with.

The whole "which group suffered more" argument is beside the point - in some ways, the suffering of gays is far worse than African Americans - it is much easier to deny who you are when there is nothing physically apparent to force the issue, but what effect does hiding in plain sight have upon a person? Both suffered unimaginable cruelty - African Americans endured slavery and gays endured the Holocaust, but this is not a contest as to who has suffered worse. In fact, there are some keen similarities - Loving v. Georgia and Hollingsworth v. Perry, the Jim Crow laws and United States v. Windsor. The battles have ended up in the courts because when the Legislative and Executive branches of either the Federal or State governments have decided to act out against a disfavored minority for no rational purpose, it is the Judiciary which holds the great responsibility of righting that wrong.

Jason Collins coming out is bigger than a name-only player. Collins may not have the name, but he seems to command the respect of his teammates and opponents - which is something far more valuable in the long run. It is men and women of astonishing courage such as Collins who will ultimately lead to a more perfect union for all of us. We owe him our thanks.

I dunno... maybe today? Historically though, this seems myopic. I don't know how old you are, but were you around during segregation? I was not, so I honestly cannot make the comparison based on first-hand experiences. We're certainly not seeing fire hoses spraying down gay people on the streets or colleges refusing gays admission (all of which happened long after Jackie Robinson broke into the bigs).

I think most suffering for gays is brought on by self, as you've explained above. "Should I, or shouldn't I reveal it?" The inner torture is probably very difficult, no denying that.

Whereas the torture was for everyone to see if you were black/asian/whatever. So a person of color could not escape emotional and physical persecution. I don't really know, but I would think the inner turmoil would also plague minorities back in the day similar to how it affects gays today, re: "Why couldn't I have been born white?"

Make no mistake, I'm not going the other way and saying this should be minimized by saying this is more like Walter Dukes being the first 7-foot-person to play in the NBA or something. This is certainly a big deal.

Long story short: This is a big deal. Let's just leave Jackie Robinson out of it.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

It's not courageous. Every other week someone is announcing they are gay. They don't kill you for being gay here like they do in muslim countries.

Here, an announcement that you are a gay, black male is doing nothing other than admitting that you are in the highest risk group for HIV/AIDS. In my mind, it's more selfish than courageous. You are most at risk for having the disease and are willing to put other athletes who aren't using their bodies inappropriately at risk by playing a physical sport with them.

From the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, dated March 2013:

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/pdf/msm.pdf

Note, again, that white, heterosexual males are not on the list. I've posted this information before. White, heterosexual males didn't make the last list either.

We can all agree that the Center for Disease Control and Prevention is not a church, religious organization, "right wing" think tank. or political action committee. It is a research outift of the United States' government.

Here are the words of the CDC regarding the spread of HIV/AIDS:

"Prevention Challenges

As a group, gay, bisexual, and other MSM have an increased chance of being exposed to HIV because of the large number of MSM living with HIV.

...

Sexual risk behaviors account for most HIV infections in MSM. Unprotected receptive anal sex is the sexual behavior that carries the highest risk for HIV acquisition. For sexually active MSM, the most effective ways to prevent HIV and many other sexually transmitted infections (STIs) are to avoid anal sex, or for MSM who do have anal sex, to always use condoms. MSM are at increased risk for syphilis, gonorrhea, and chlamydia, and the CDC recommends that all sexually active MSM be tested annually for these STIs."

Again and again and again, when you abuse the body it reacts against the abuse. The anus is not a sexual organ, although gay and bisexual men use it as such. They reap disease because of it.

Sadly, people are being lauded as heroes for flaunting the misuse of their bodies. It doesn't matter whether Collins is an NBA basketball player or just some average Joe off the street. He doesn't use his body as it is meant to be used from a physiological and biological standpoint. And, as the government's own research shows, the end results is disease.

Engaging in actions you know could damage your body and put others at risk is not heroic - it's selfish and stupid. What do we do next, give Medals of Freedom to people who kill, maim, or paralyze others while driving drunk or stoned?

Edited April 30, 2013 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[Green P1]

It's not courageous. Every other week someone is announcing they are gay. They don't kill you for being gay here like they do in muslim countries.

Here, an announcement that you are a gay, black male is doing nothing other than admitting that you are in the highest risk group for HIV/AIDS. In my mind, it's more selfish than courageous. You are most at risk for having the disease and are willing to put other athletes who aren't using their bodies inappropriately at risk by playing a physical sport with them.

From the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, dated March 2013:

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/pdf/msm.pdf

Note, again, that white, heterosexual males are not on the list. I've posted this information before. White, heterosexual males didn't make the last list either.

We can all agree that the Center for Disease Control and Prevention is not a church, religious organization, "right wing" think tank. or political action committee. It is a research outift of the United States' government.

Here are the words of the CDC regarding the spread of HIV/AIDS:

"Prevention Challenges

As a group, gay, bisexual, and other MSM have an increased chance of being exposed to HIV because of the large number of MSM living with HIV.

...

Sexual risk behaviors account for most HIV infections in MSM. Unprotected receptive anal sex is the sexual behavior that carries the highest risk for HIV acquisition. For sexually active MSM, the most effective ways to prevent HIV and many other sexually transmitted infections (STIs) are to avoid anal sex, or for MSM who do have anal sex, to always use condoms. MSM are at increased risk for syphilis, gonorrhea, and chlamydia, and the CDC recommends that all sexually active MSM be tested annually for these STIs."

Again and again and again, when you abuse the body it reacts against the abuse. The anus is not a sexual organ, although gay and bisexual men use it as such. They reap disease because of it.

Sadly, people are being lauded as heroes for flaunting the misuse of their bodies. It doesn't matter whether Collins is an NBA basketball player or just some average Joe off the street. He doesn't use his body as it is meant to be used from a physiological and biological standpoint. And, as the government's own research shows, the end results is disease.

Engaging in actions you know could damage your body and put others at risk is not heroic - it's selfish and stupid. What do we do next, give Medals of Freedom to people who kill, maim, or paralyze others while driving drunk or stoned?

I'm starting to understand why you love DT so much....

Derek_Thompson7 Sure hope there's no fags on my team! hahaha! Am I right? Am I right? #amIright

[KRAM1]

I'm starting to understand why you love DT so much....

Derek_Thompson7 Sure hope there's no fags on my team! hahaha! Am I right? Am I right? #amIright

Really too bad you felt it appropriate to post the above. If DT sent this from his Twitter account, that is unfortunate as well, but why use this to try to criticize and demean another? To me, it's in as poor taste as those criticizing Collins for his decision to "come out".

[UNTnewbie]

Really too bad you felt it appropriate to post the above. If DT sent this from his Twitter account, that is unfortunate as well, but why use this to try to criticize and demean another? To me, it's in as poor taste as those criticizing Collins for his decision to "come out".

Just to make sure everyone knows. This is a parody account someone, other than Derek, created and is tweating under. P1 should have mentioned this in his post because there are those out there that would take this as coming from Derek and you wouldn't know unless you actually took a look at the profile.

Edited April 30, 2013 by UNTnewbie

[KRAM1]

Just to make sure everyone knows. This is a parody account someone, other than Derek, created and is tweating under. P1 should have mentioned this in his post because there are a lot of simpletons out there that would take this as coming from Derek.

Agree...another mistake after the mistake of posting it in the first place. Does no one any good and thus I said "if", but thank you for making everyone aware that this post was not from DT in the first place.

[Rudy]

Hmmm, I thought courage was volunteer firefighters and the off duty Dallas Firefighter that gave their lives a couple of weeks ago.

On another note, I'm announcing that I am the first openly heterosexual GMG poster.

[emmitt01]

" I don't really know, but I would think the inner turmoil would also plague minorities back in the day similar to how it affects gays today, re: "Why couldn't I have been born white?" "

Wow. Aside from the fact that I challenge you to find ONE documented case of blacks being so uncomfortable or "ashamed" of their skin that they decried their lot in life...the fact that you "would think the inner turmoil would plague them" isn't evenly veiled racism, it's point blank bigoted. To say that they lamented their station in life is completely fair game...to say that they bought into the fallacy that their black skin was intrinsically inferior, and therefore wished to be white, is absolutely f'in ridiculous. Every time a white kid gets dunked on is it more reasonable to assume he wishes he was taller or more athletic or that he whispers under his breath "God, why didn't you make me black?"

[UNT Five&Dime]

Just to make sure everyone knows. That is not the real Lonnie Finch.

[UNTX]

It's not courageous. Every other week someone is announcing they are gay. They don't kill you for being gay here like they do in muslim countries.

Here, an announcement that you are a gay, black male is doing nothing other than admitting that you are in the highest risk group for HIV/AIDS. In my mind, it's more selfish than courageous. You are most at risk for having the disease and are willing to put other athletes who aren't using their bodies inappropriately at risk by playing a physical sport with them.

From the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, dated March 2013:

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/pdf/msm.pdf

Note, again, that white, heterosexual males are not on the list. I've posted this information before. White, heterosexual males didn't make the last list either.

We can all agree that the Center for Disease Control and Prevention is not a church, religious organization, "right wing" think tank. or political action committee. It is a research outift of the United States' government.

Here are the words of the CDC regarding the spread of HIV/AIDS:

"Prevention Challenges

As a group, gay, bisexual, and other MSM have an increased chance of being exposed to HIV because of the large number of MSM living with HIV.

...

Sexual risk behaviors account for most HIV infections in MSM. Unprotected receptive anal sex is the sexual behavior that carries the highest risk for HIV acquisition. For sexually active MSM, the most effective ways to prevent HIV and many other sexually transmitted infections (STIs) are to avoid anal sex, or for MSM who do have anal sex, to always use condoms. MSM are at increased risk for syphilis, gonorrhea, and chlamydia, and the CDC recommends that all sexually active MSM be tested annually for these STIs."

Again and again and again, when you abuse the body it reacts against the abuse. The anus is not a sexual organ, although gay and bisexual men use it as such. They reap disease because of it.

Sadly, people are being lauded as heroes for flaunting the misuse of their bodies. It doesn't matter whether Collins is an NBA basketball player or just some average Joe off the street. He doesn't use his body as it is meant to be used from a physiological and biological standpoint. And, as the government's own research shows, the end results is disease.

Engaging in actions you know could damage your body and put others at risk is not heroic - it's selfish and stupid. What do we do next, give Medals of Freedom to people who kill, maim, or paralyze others while driving drunk or stoned?

[UNTX]

To Fake Lonnie Finch:

So what is your tangential argument to defame gay women?

Edited May 1, 2013 by UNTX

[CMJ]

Just to make sure everyone knows. That is not the real Lonnie Finch.

I know you have already received many plus ones, but I still find this underrated. F'n hysterical man...well done.

Edited May 1, 2013 by CMJ

[Green P1]

Really too bad you felt it appropriate to post the above. If DT sent this from his Twitter account, that is unfortunate as well, but why use this to try to criticize and demean another? To me, it's in as poor taste as those criticizing Collins for his decision to "come out".

That's my bad I guess. I just noticed it on the forum's main page and naturally assumed it was his. Who'd have thunk gmg.com would be publishing comments from a defamatory twitter parody account?

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Hmmm, I thought courage was volunteer firefighters and the off duty Dallas Firefighter that gave their lives a couple of weeks ago.

On another note, I'm announcing that I am the first openly heterosexual GMG poster.

Yes, you are correct. Firefighters subduing fires and saving lives are courageous. Someone telling the public about their risky sexual proclivities is not courageous.

[MeanGreenTexan]

" I don't really know, but I would think the inner turmoil would also plague minorities back in the day similar to how it affects gays today, re: "Why couldn't I have been born white?" "

Wow. Aside from the fact that I challenge you to find ONE documented case of blacks being so uncomfortable or "ashamed" of their skin that they decried their lot in life...the fact that you "would think the inner turmoil would plague them" isn't evenly veiled racism, it's point blank bigoted. To say that they lamented their station in life is completely fair game...to say that they bought into the fallacy that their black skin was intrinsically inferior, and therefore wished to be white, is absolutely f'in ridiculous. Every time a white kid gets dunked on is it more reasonable to assume he wishes he was taller or more athletic or that he whispers under his breath "God, why didn't you make me black?"

I'm sorry I offended you. I'm not trying to say that black folks should be ashamed and all black folks wished they were white. Nor would I ever. My choice of words was poor.

But I wonder, and I'm not sure if you can answer definitively but your grandparents probably could, if during the lamenting of their situation in life, pre-civil rights movement, if they ever thought "If I were white, I wouldn't have to endure this persecution". If no one thought that, my point is lame and should be discarded. My apologies to everyone reading this drivel.

I still don't believe the anguish endured today for homosexual athletes is comparable to Jackie Robinson's fight.

[Quoner]

Yes, you are correct. Firefighters subduing fires and saving lives are courageous. Someone telling the public about their risky sexual proclivities is not courageous.

What about Wild Things during that one part? Yay or nay?

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

To Fake Lonnie Finch:

So what is your tangential argument to defame gay women?

CDC research is tangential and defaming? All I did was point to CDC research to demostrate that what Collins is doing is admitting high risk for HIV/AIDS acquisition. I don't regard that as brave at all. I see that as admitting he willingly participates in high risk sexual activities, which is foolish.

As to gay women, look again at what the body is and what it does. In humans, the females carry the eggs that when combined with the sperm of the male creates new life. Evolutionary biology doesn't explain sexual proclivities among small groups of individuals.

About two decades ago, a researcher tried to conjure up discovery of a "gay gene." However, subsequent research could not prove it, and sometimes even disproved it. Wishing there was a gene to explain homosexuality is one thing; proving it is another, and that hasn't been done.

Women who have sex with other women, like white heterosexual males, do not make the CDC HIV AIDS list because they are not using the anus as the main means of sexual contact. It reinforces, then, the appropriate physiological and biological function of the anus.

As far as women who have sex with other women and STIs, bacterial vaginosis is more common than it is in heterosexual women. Again, from the government's own research: http://womenshealth.gov/publications/our-publications/fact-sheet/lesbian-bisexual-health.cfm#e

So, back where we started - is what Collins has done "brave" or "courageous"? No.

----------

Here is what I see as the true problem: Because the truth is ugly, people want to ignore it and bombard the public with emotional cover stories. Doing so makes a certain element of the populace "feel good" about themselves. However, that doesn't help the situation of HIV/AIDS prevention.

When you take an honest look at the scientific evidence, the group with the least acquisition of STIs, psychologocal problems, etc is monogamous, heterosexual couples. Why this scientific fact is offensive to some, I'll never know.

The paradox (hypocrisy) of those who incline toward the left of the political spectrum is that in many issues they will tell you "science, science, science!" Yet, when it comes to sexuality, they ignore stark scientific warning signs about misusing the body sexually. Why?

It isn't difficult. The question about what the parts of the body do and what their correct uses are is not the same as Big Bang versus Creationism arguments. In Big Bang versus Creationism, neither side can conclusively prove the other right or wrong.

As to sexuality, evolutionary biology proves that the human specie is continued by male-female reproduction. In phsyiology and anatomy, the anus is the final part is the digestive system. It is not a part of the sexual reproductive process.

HIV/AIDS did not spring from monogamous, heterosexual relationships. That isn't an opinion, it is a fact. And, it is a fact that, to this day, is still supported the weight of scientific evidence.

You cannot change what the body is or what it does by wishing. If you abuse and misuse the body, it will react against such.

---------

Now, in the gigantically big picture, the group at least risk for any type of STI is married, heterosexual couples. Why is that? From what we know of science and evolution, how can you not conclude that is it because people in those relationship at using their bodies for what they are intended to be used for?

We now waste billions of dollars on HIV/AIDS drugs when the known prevention of it is simple - stop using the anus as a sexual organ. The research has already been done. Accept it so that the money and time used for it can be used on truly non-discrimintory diseases, such as cancer.