For those who question the commitment

[untjim1995]

And, you, Eagle61, you seem fine with accepting mediocrity.

Maybe I can recognize the things I can do something about. If whining is going to do any good, then I expect a top 10 in every sport because of this site..

UNTnegative wants to gouge the students with a fee. Daddy signed his tuition checks, I'm sure. Students pay too much now. I would like to see the state raise taxes enough to support our colleges so that the everyone who can qualify can attend. Tuition should be tied to the minimum wage. Work the summer at minimum wage and you can attend college. I contribute twice as much (at least) to the Emerald scholars as I give to athletics. That program is for kids who come from households making under 40k. I would like for them to have the same opportunity that I had. I have spoken to Mary Crownover about lowering tuition. She didn't want to talk about it.

The plan for change here seems to be whine, whine, whine, and on every thread, no matter the subject. I haven't heard anything about someone stepping up except "somebody else".

This thread is awesome--so we have TTG give the best post ever given on gmg.com in the same thread that has (above) what has to be among the stupidest posts I have ever seen. Seriously, raise taxes to support our colleges so that everyone can attend? What nirvana are you wanting to live in? Tuition tied to minimum wage? Seriously, they are a ton of ways to pay for college--you don't water down the value of a degree by letting everyone have access to it in an easy fashion.

I'm glad you give to the Emerald scholars fund. Its a noble cause. But the state has much bigger issues, just as the country does, than figuring out a way for tuition to be tied to the freaking minimum wage. BTW, that's what junior colleges help with in terms of getting lower costs for your basic classes, if you need to take advanatage of that. You would immediately see a huge run on the professors and educators at the public schools in Texas who would just go teach at the private schools or in states that wouldn't cause anyone to have their incomes effectively cut in half so that they could teach thousands of extra students who would treat university learning the way kids in public schools already treat high school and middle school do--as something they get for free. That would kill the value of a UNT degree.

The 61 part of your username suggest that is the year you graduated from here. Your mindset above seems stuck in that time. Over 50k students attend Texas and A&M. Over 35k attend UH and UNT. That's not counting the bigger enrollments at Texas Tech, Texas State, UTA, UTSA, UTEP, Sam Houston, SFA, Lamar, UTD, UT-Permian Basin, and so many others not listed. Our state educates a lot of people--the costs have risen greatly, but so have costs for energy, groceries, medicine, etc...its the whole supply/demand thing, you know, what capitalism runs on, even for government entities like colleges, hospitals, airports, etc.

It is ironic, though, that you talked about whining...then went on to whine about how college costs should get socialized for everyone who wants to go.

[Eagle61]

Whether you or I support a tuition increase doesn't matter, we aren't paying it. Right now students pay $10 per hour for the stadium. That's $300 per year for a full load or the equivalent of a season ticket for football and basketball. If we want a athletic fee, put the vote on the registration process so that all 35k will have to vote. I think you would see what the users of the service want. And I believe I said raise taxes, that is you and me paying, not cutting any expenses or salaries - raise taxes. The people of Texas paid for my education through taxes - tuition was $150 a year (I started in 61, my last degree(MBA) was 73). This is a failure of my generation and yours in screwing the current generation. Our gutless legislators won't fund our colleges, remember a few years ago they just turned them loose - charge whatever you want. Many, many kids in the 60s got through school by working, I was not the exception and we didn't treat our education with disrespect. I was the bottom of the barrel economically and I don't think it will water down anything by making it available to the "everyone" you speak of. I was "everyone" My generation and the next one who paid little for tuition are now the major donors of UNT because they know what the education meant to them. I feel I owe NT my donations. It made an enormous difference in my life. If I graduated today, I wouldn't have a chance to go to UNT. It would be junior college and an on-line college or the military. I would rather see us drop sports than raise our tuition to private school levels. There are still a lot of poor kids who just want a chance. And I don't whine. Complaining becomes whining when repeated hundreds of times.

Maybe you noticed - you touched a sore spot.

[UNTFan23]

Tuition should be tied to the minimum wage. Work the summer at minimum wage and you can attend college.

If that's the case then you must also support raising the minimum wage to $15/hr.

[JesseMartin]

Mr Waranch walked through our door several years back wanting to give back somehow so he built us a new tennis complex that was badly needed with the agreement that WE would complete it by raising the money to finish it with the center court. And now, coach Lama just led us to our third conference tennis championship in four years, and still no center court. So excuse me if I EXPECT a completion of the tennis project one way or the other before another project is taken on.

Rick

This was skipped over by most, I'm sure. But yes, if we can get commitments, following through just a bit will set an example to ensure that others see what we do when commitments are made. +1.

I know so little, but the athletic fee problem is a mystery to me. Can anyone explain it as succinctly and plainly as possible?

Athletic Fee, Rec Center fee...anything that hits the Legislature and impacts only a small portion of the state (like specific University fees) is often leveraged as political power. People play around with things in committee, and even if the legislators who represent the area aren't out of favor, sometimes others will block things like this with the "if you guys don't approve mine, I'm not voting for anybody else's" kind of mess. Now that we have it, a $2/hr increase per year would increase revenue by between $1-1.5 million a year, assuming an average of 10 credit hours per student, per semester (including grad, undergrad, full time, and part time).

BTW....We reassigned Simon, instead of buying him out. No reason it can't happen again down the road.

Rick

I was considering starting a thread about this. There were profs and others that were reassigned at times as well. Basically you look for an open position ("Special Assistant to the President/Dean/Regents/whoever) that the person in question can fill, instead of hiring someone else for an already-budgeted position. They would make their expected salary, which is higher than normal for the position in question, but is cheaper than a flat-out buyout. Many times they end up being a sort of attache for meetings, events, political stuff in Austin, etc. Actually sounds like a fun job regardless of the pay.

UNTnegative wants to gouge the students with a fee. Daddy signed his tuition checks, I'm sure. Students pay too much now. I would like to see the state raise taxes enough to support our colleges so that the everyone who can qualify can attend. Tuition should be tied to the minimum wage. Work the summer at minimum wage and you can attend college. I contribute twice as much (at least) to the Emerald scholars as I give to athletics. That program is for kids who come from households making under 40k. I would like for them to have the same opportunity that I had. I have spoken to Mary Crownover about lowering tuition. She didn't want to talk about it.

I'm glad you are thinking about options instead of just whining, though we would need some more creativity in budgeting to make any of that work. There are work-study programs, grants, etc that are similar to your "tie tuition to the minimum wage" idea. The problem is that there isn't enough money to make it work, mostly because we get so little state funding now compared to before (as an overall percentage). The reason Myra Crownover didn't want to discuss lowering tuition is probably because of the amount of time it would take to give you the HUGE amount of information on state and local budgets, mandatory minimum state tuition costs, overall average household effects of tax increases to offset reduced tuition costs statewide, etc. There are a lot of entities tied into a majority (though not all) of the costs at UNT, and most of them impose across-the-board standards for all state schools. In short, it's very unlikely that an increase on taxes would help families in need get their kids to college any more than an increase in grants and scholarships, because there is a limit to how much each family can claim as education cost exemptions. So yes, your ideas are great but would require huge changes from groups including, but not limited to, the THECB, IRS, every family in Texas, State Legislature, etc. For any of that to work, I know exactly what it would take to get past each obstacle and group, and it's unlikely at best but you can PM me if you want to take it on as a project and would like to know where to start.

But the state has much bigger issues, just as the country does, than figuring out a way for tuition to be tied to the freaking minimum wage. BTW, that's what junior colleges help with in terms of getting lower costs for your basic classes, if you need to take advanatage of that. You would immediately see a huge run on the professors and educators at the public schools in Texas who would just go teach at the private schools or in states that wouldn't cause anyone to have their incomes effectively cut in half so that they could teach thousands of extra students who would treat university learning the way kids in public schools already treat high school and middle school do--as something they get for free. That would kill the value of a UNT degree.

The 61 part of your username suggest that is the year you graduated from here. Your mindset above seems stuck in that time. Over 50k students attend Texas and A&M. Over 35k attend UH and UNT. That's not counting the bigger enrollments at Texas Tech, Texas State, UTA, UTSA, UTEP, Sam Houston, SFA, Lamar, UTD, UT-Permian Basin, and so many others not listed. Our state educates a lot of people--the costs have risen greatly, but so have costs for energy, groceries, medicine, etc...its the whole supply/demand thing, you know, what capitalism runs on, even for government entities like colleges, hospitals, airports, etc.

It is ironic, though, that you talked about whining...then went on to whine about how college costs should get socialized for everyone who wants to go.

In general, I agree with everything you said, if not the tone. I think everyone willing to work hard in and out of the classroom deserves the same opportunity for an education, but opportunity isn't the same as just handing it out. I think 61's heart is in the right place even if he isn't as big a nerd as some of us to spend weeks on end reading budgets and education code (yes, I'm referring to myself since I don't want to call out anyone else for being as big of a nerd as me). Though I also agree that some of the ideas seem a bit dated and unlikely, and I certainly don't think it should all be socialized, there is always a need to consider the merit of an idea that may grow to take on a new form. Let's not discourage an idea overall when segments of it could lead to an overhaul of areas that we agree are necessary (work-study programs, for instance).

Whether you or I support a tuition increase doesn't matter, we aren't paying it. Right now students pay $10 per hour for the stadium. That's $300 per year for a full load or the equivalent of a season ticket for football and basketball. If we want a athletic fee, put the vote on the registration process so that all 35k will have to vote. I think you would see what the users of the service want. And I believe I said raise taxes, that is you and me paying, not cutting any expenses or salaries - raise taxes. The people of Texas paid for my education through taxes - tuition was $150 a year (I started in 61, my last degree(MBA) was 73). This is a failure of my generation and yours in screwing the current generation. Our gutless legislators won't fund our colleges, remember a few years ago they just turned them loose - charge whatever you want. Many, many kids in the 60s got through school by working, I was not the exception and we didn't treat our education with disrespect. I was the bottom of the barrel economically and I don't think it will water down anything by making it available to the "everyone" you speak of. I was "everyone" My generation and the next one who paid little for tuition are now the major donors of UNT because they know what the education meant to them. I feel I owe NT my donations. It made an enormous difference in my life. If I graduated today, I wouldn't have a chance to go to UNT. It would be junior college and an on-line college or the military. I would rather see us drop sports than raise our tuition to private school levels. There are still a lot of poor kids who just want a chance. And I don't whine. Complaining becomes whining when repeated hundreds of times.

Maybe you noticed - you touched a sore spot.

You may also note that there has been considerable inflation since that time, and the number of non-classroom services has increased. I was the "everyone else" too, and the first in my family to ever get a degree. But also relatively unknown is that if a student can show financial hardship, they can request a fee waiver for non-academic services. If they obtain that waiver and want to use the service, then they have to pay a fee at that time. It's a little loophole tucked away in the education code. Tuition is still the most expensive part of the education, but the Athletics Fee, Union Fee, Library Fee, Student Service Fee, etc. can all be waived if the student can show proof that they could only afford their education without that additional financial burden (including student loans, work-study options, etc) and agrees not to use those services, whether or not they are mandatory fees. Edited April 24, 2013 by JesseMartin

[adman]

Your above post Jesse, makes me think you are the real life Kenneth Parcells.

[UNT90]

Whether you or I support a tuition increase doesn't matter, we aren't paying it. Right now students pay $10 per hour for the stadium. That's $300 per year for a full load or the equivalent of a season ticket for football and basketball. If we want a athletic fee, put the vote on the registration process so that all 35k will have to vote. I think you would see what the users of the service want. And I believe I said raise taxes, that is you and me paying, not cutting any expenses or salaries - raise taxes. The people of Texas paid for my education through taxes - tuition was $150 a year (I started in 61, my last degree(MBA) was 73). This is a failure of my generation and yours in screwing the current generation. Our gutless legislators won't fund our colleges, remember a few years ago they just turned them loose - charge whatever you want. Many, many kids in the 60s got through school by working, I was not the exception and we didn't treat our education with disrespect. I was the bottom of the barrel economically and I don't think it will water down anything by making it available to the "everyone" you speak of. I was "everyone" My generation and the next one who paid little for tuition are now the major donors of UNT because they know what the education meant to them. I feel I owe NT my donations. It made an enormous difference in my life. If I graduated today, I wouldn't have a chance to go to UNT. It would be junior college and an on-line college or the military. I would rather see us drop sports than raise our tuition to private school levels. There are still a lot of poor kids who just want a chance. And I don't whine. Complaining becomes whining when repeated hundreds of times.

Maybe you noticed - you touched a sore spot.

The fee has already been approved by a student body vote. Did you miss that, or just not like the results, so now you want to FORCE students to vote AGAIN.

Are we living in the old USSR?

Every student knows about the fee before entolling. If they are so against it, they can go to school sonewhere else.

Just not Tx St., UTSA, or just about every other public university in the state of Texas, because they will be charged a higher price for the fee.

Good to know that you want to keep UNT the cheap option in education. Maybe you have heard; you get what you pay for.

Edited April 24, 2013 by UNT90

[PlummMeanGreen]

The fee has already been approved by a student body vote. Did you miss that, or just not like the results, so now you want to FORCE students to vote AGAIN.

Are we living in the old USSR?

Every student knows about the fee before entolling. If they are so against it, they can go to school sonewhere else.

Just not Tx St., UTSA, or just about every other public university in the state of Texas, because they will be charged a higher price for the fee.

Good to know that you want to keep UNT the cheap option in education. Maybe you have heard; you get what you pay for.

OK, what are the actual athletic student service fees for TSU-SM, UTSA and UNT?

And when our UNT students passed the referendum for Apogee Stadium, didn't the passage of that referendum also provide additional athletic budget monies

in graduated amounts for the next several athletic fiscal years, too?

?

GMG!

Edited April 24, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNT90]

OK, what are the actual athletic student service fees for TSU-SM, UTSA and UNT?

And when our UNT students passed the referendum for Apogee Stadium, didn't the passage of that referendum also provide additional athletic budget monies

in graduated amounts for the next several athletic fiscal years, too?

?

GMG!

UTSA and Tx. St have a $20 per semester hour fee. UNT STUDENTS APPROVED a 10 per semester hour fee, with the option to raise it $2 per semester hour per year until it caps at $20 per semester hour.

Unless I am nistaken, we are still sitting at $10 per semester hour. Why? I have no idea.

[JesseMartin]

Your above post Jesse, makes me think you are the real life Kenneth Parcells.

Haha...wait...is that a good thing? I guess as long as I don't have his voice that's not too bad.

UTSA and Tx. St have a $20 per semester hour fee. UNT STUDENTS APPROVED a 10 per semester hour fee, with the option to raise it $2 per semester hour per year until it caps at $20 per semester hour.

Unless I am nistaken, we are still sitting at $10 per semester hour. Why? I have no idea.

The SGA can vote for the $2 per hour increase. Maybe they don't know...? My freshman year, as we were packing up to move out of the dorms, we had a call-in vote to increase the Health Center fee by $1 or something like that because it was overlooked during the semester and they told the SGA President it was still not voted on after our last meeting. Even if not required, it's good to place possible fee increases on the docket so that they can at least be discussed and everyone remains aware that it's the student reps' responsibility to decide whether or not to vote for the increase. Edited April 24, 2013 by JesseMartin

[PlummMeanGreen]

OK, what are the actual athletic student service fees for TSU-SM, UTSA and UNT?

And when our UNT students passed the referendum for Apogee Stadium, didn't the passage of that referendum also provide additional athletic budget monies in graduate amounts for the next several athletic fiscal years, too?

GMG!

At the time all this came out post referendum passage and as I recall, it had our athletic budgets around $22 million around 2011, then $24 million in 2012 and I think up to $26 million for this upcoming athletic fiscal year, but I've not seen any such numbers as that since.

GMG!

Edited April 25, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Commitment is Western Kentucky. More on that at the end of this post. What we have right now is architecture.

I still defend Darrell Dickey. I think Coach Mac has done more than anyone should have reasonably expected so far, though I am a little concerned with our recruiting under him. I don't think (though I may be wrong) I called for Dodge to be fired until he was in his 3rd year. I criticized him pretty heavily up to that point, but I don't think I said RV ought to fire him.

I understood the Benford hire, I praised it at the time. When people started talking about "Sweet 16 or bust", I tried to point out that postseason success as a sole measure of achievement is foolish. When people knock our program for never beating ranked teams, I try to point out what that means, and why almost nobody from the mid major ranks ever beats ranked teams, particularly on the road.

I am not a person with unreasonable or outrageous expectations.

The best thing for North Texas, not just as a basketball program, but primarily as an institution of education and integrity, would be for Tony Benford's association with it to be terminated, as soon as possible, voluntarily or not.

Yesterday would have been better than today. Today would be better than tomorrow. Tomorrow is better than September, September would be better than January, January would be better than April. This year would be better than 2 years from now.

But that's not going to happen.

We aren't going to pay off roughly one and a half million dollars to get rid of the guy. We lost our shot at the brass ring last year. Next year, we'll struggle, because we have so many new players learning to mesh and play D-1 basketball, and doing it against CUSA competition instead of the Sun Belt. The year after that (assuming we aren't replacing another 6 or 7 guys then), maybe we'll push .500... And obviously, we can't fire the guy when the team is showing improvement. That gets us to year 4 out of 5 on the contract, and maybe midway through or at the end of that season, we might get a new coach.

That's just how it's going to be. Benford isn't going anywhere anytime soon. We're going to have to sit here for years and watch our basketball program lose any and all momentum we put together over the last decade. It's hard, hard, hard to build a program in any sport, but primarily so in the 2 main men's sports. Once upon a not-too-long ago, we were pretty decent at football. Now, less than a decade after our last bowl appearance, there are only 5 schools in D-1 football that haven't made a bowl since our last appearance. UNLV, Washington State, Tulane, Eastern Michigan, and New Mexico State. Everyone else that was full D-1 last year, including half a dozen teams that weren't D1 when we were bowling (or flat out didn't exist at all), has been in a bowl since our 2004 New Orleans Bowl appearance.

We made a godawful hire in football, and holding on to that guy for 4 years has allowed us to see 116 other schools make at least one bowl game since our last one.

It's going to happen in basketball, too.

Western Kentucky is committed to success. Not architecture, though success has allowed them to finance some nice architecture, too. That place doesn't accept being terrible at everything.

Western Kentucky won a national championship in 1-AA football back in 2002. Their Defensive Coordinator got promoted to Head Coach, then led them to a #8 and #11 ranking. He oversaw their transition to full D1 football. They signed him to a 6 year contract extension in January of 2009. 10 months later, they realized he wasn't the man who could lead them to FBS success, and they fired him. Less than a year after giving him a big extension, they got rid of him. And, looking at what they did under Taggart, it looks like they made the right call.

In basketball, Western Kentucky hasn't gone more than 5 years between NCAA Tournament appearances since the 1950's. And, back then, some schools preferred the NIT over the NCAAs. If you count NIT appearances, the last time WKU went more than 5 years without an appearance was during the Great Depression.

Western had a coach who, in his first year, led them to an NCAA tournament win. Almost the Sweet 16, if not for a Gonzaga buzzer beater. Ken McDonald won 21 games the next year. The year after that, his team went .500. And that .500 season was so unacceptable to that school, McDonald had to take a $100,000 pay cut to keep his job. Then, they fired him halfway through the next season anyway.

McDonald won them an NCAA tournament game. Almost two. Never finished a season under .500. And he didn't even get to finish the 4th year on his contract.

That place refuses to be awful at sports.

Here, we have a tiny fan base and limited resources. Even though WKU is smaller and in a small Kentucky town, they don't have to worry about either. Since before World War 2, no student who attended 5 years at WKU has gone without a team to celebrate.

Here, we have sock puppets from the athletic department scolding fans for being pissed off that we're terrible at both of the major men's sports. There, they don't have the excuse of apathy and a small donor base. Because for over 80 years, every Hilltopper who put in a full 4 years had something to cheer for. And in the periods where they didn't get it while on campus, it happened the year before or the year after.

There are no dark decades or generations of limited to zero fan base growth like what's happened at North Texas in the same period of time. WKU doesn't have to wait and hope for a Boone Pickens gift. They have 80 years worth of consistent commitment and sports success. We have 4 bowls in a half century, and most of our fans crap on whatever that success was worth. We have 3 NCAA appearances in our entire school history. WKU has 4 NCAA tournament wins (not appearances, but WINS) since our 2007 appearance.

That's a place that has given their students and alums a reason to give a damn about sports. With very short and very minor exceptions, we haven't done that here. To sit in the equivalent of my two seats at Diddle Arena, I'd have to pay $1500 per year. Meanwhile, at the Super Pit, we couldn't give away tickets in our row.

If Tony Benford were coaching Western Kentucky, he'd be at risk of getting fired midway through the upcoming basketball season. When they screw up a hire (Kilcullen, McDonald) they don't spend the next 4 years justifying the decision process. That's how they've run that program for generations, and that's why they don't sit around wondering how the can tap their market or interest their 100k+ alums within a 30 minute drive of campus like we so often do.

We can't be terrible at everything anymore. We were decent at football, then we were pretty damn good at basketball. If football doesn't make it to a bowl this year, it's going to keep getting uglier and uglier. It's been 15 years since we sucked at everything, all at once. And it looks like we may be in for another year of it.

When people are complaining, at least they're engaged. I spent most of basketball season not posting. I've pretty much stopped doing any maintenance on the basketball recruiting forum, because based on how we're handling players and scholarships, that forum may as well be Grindr for guys who can dunk.

Benford is here. He's not leaving any time soon. And I understand that. I don't expect him to go anywhere until late 2015 or early 2016, at the soonest. Unless we get ourselves in some sort of trouble, and wind up with an out to fire him for cause.

We're stuck. We're f---ed. And it's probably going to take so long to change course, that we'll have a football-style reclamation project for our next coach to walk in and try to fix.

I'm 32 years old. And it looks like it's going to take a miracle, sooner or later, for me to see us in the NCAA Tournament again before I turn 40. Whenever it happens, (if it happens?) I just hope we haven't gone on sanctions in the meantime.

This should be pinned at the top of each forum for years to come.

[ragpicker]

Thanks for the info. I think.

[forevereagle]

The fee has already been approved by a student body vote. Did you miss that, or just not like the results, so now you want to FORCE students to vote AGAIN.

Are we living in the old USSR?

In Soviet Russia, vote takes you.

/Yakov'd

[Eagle61]

In Soviet Russia, vote takes you.

/Yakov'd

The proposal was approved by a tiny percent of the student body (under 2000, i think), and it didn't go into effect until the stadium was completed. So the voters were never going to pay the fee. No incentive for them to vote. $1200 for 4 years is substantial for some kids. I have a great-niece who is 13. If she comes to UNT, I will try to get her out of the fee, as Mr. Martin pointed out.

[UNTFan23]

The proposal was approved by a tiny percent of the student body (under 2000, i think), and it didn't go into effect until the stadium was completed. So the voters were never going to pay the fee. No incentive for them to vote. $1200 for 4 years is substantial for some kids. I have a great-niece who is 13. If she comes to UNT, I will try to get her out of the fee, as Mr. Martin pointed out.

Then she can never attend any athletic events using her student ID. She'd have to pay for general admission and might not even be able to sit with her friends in the student section.

That is the thing about getting out of those fees, you can never use that service since you didn't pay for them.

[Green P1]

The proposal was approved by a tiny percent of the student body (under 2000, i think), and it didn't go into effect until the stadium was completed. So the voters were never going to pay the fee. No incentive for them to vote. $1200 for 4 years is substantial for some kids. I have a great-niece who is 13. If she comes to UNT, I will try to get her out of the fee, as Mr. Martin pointed out.

She should probably just go somewhere else.

[UNT90]

The proposal was approved by a tiny percent of the student body (under 2000, i think), and it didn't go into effect until the stadium was completed. So the voters were never going to pay the fee. No incentive for them to vote. $1200 for 4 years is substantial for some kids. I have a great-niece who is 13. If she comes to UNT, I will try to get her out of the fee, as Mr. Martin pointed out.

Of course you will.

I mean, you are perfectly ok with losing, after all.

I wonder, will you try to get her out of other fees that she won't use? Or just athletics?

Gotta keep UNT as the cheapest school around.

Green Light to Cheapness is our motto, right?

Guess what, students who don't want to pay the fee don't have to come here.

Your thought process is one of the many things wrong with UNTs culture.

[Green Dozer]

Then she can never attend any athletic events using her student ID. She'd have to pay for general admission and might not even be able to sit with her friends in the student section.

That is the thing about getting out of those fees, you can never use that service since you didn't pay for them.

I don't think you can pick and choose fees, right?

[oldguystudent]

Green Dozer, on 26 Apr 2013 - 12:19, said:

I don't think you can pick and choose fees, right?

Man, if you can, I want to take a lookback at some of my bills!

[foutsrouts]

This should be pinned at the top of each forum for years to come.

My head hurts.

[forevereagle]

The proposal was approved by a tiny percent of the student body (under 2000, i think), and it didn't go into effect until the stadium was completed. So the voters were never going to pay the fee. No incentive for them to vote. $1200 for 4 years is substantial for some kids. I have a great-niece who is 13. If she comes to UNT, I will try to get her out of the fee, as Mr. Martin pointed out.

Way to take a joke and try to make it serious.

Here is an idea, why don't you convince her to go to a university that doesn't have an athletics fee, like University of Phoenix or Devry.

[untjim1995]

The proposal was approved by a tiny percent of the student body (under 2000, i think), and it didn't go into effect until the stadium was completed. So the voters were never going to pay the fee. No incentive for them to vote. $1200 for 4 years is substantial for some kids. I have a great-niece who is 13. If she comes to UNT, I will try to get her out of the fee, as Mr. Martin pointed out.

Allow me to provide example number 1,000,000 of what kills any chance of this place ever being good at athletics. This is an alum of this place, who donates to the university, and probably lives near Denton. He loved his time at North Texas State College--it was just a perfect little college town and campus back then. We shouldn't even put a dime toward athletics because it hurts our music and arts and education programs, right? What a chump.

The vote didn't occur before construction started--the construction couldn't begin until the funding became available, hence the stealth student vote, which, you are correct, hardly had a decent percentage voting for it. If we had a big turnout, it would've suited your mindset perfectly, because we would still be at Fouts with some unknown assistant making $200k as our head coach in the Sun Belt. To me, this is the mindset that cannot be defeated here--its too ingrained byt he faculty, administration, BOR, alumni, students, and citizenry.

So amazingly stupid...

[Eagle61]

Dumb people make dumb statements...like the father of this 13 year old. Pitty the poor child.

Well, her father never said anything much, he skipped out at birth. Her mom (my niece) won't be able to affort $17 - $20k per year for UNT. and there are going to be a lot more students like this. Things change quickly, UNT could become like the brick and mortar retailers competing with Amazon.

[UNTFan23]

Things change quickly, UNT could become like the brick and mortar retailers competing with Amazon.

As someone that works for a "brick and mortar retailer" I'm curious what you have to say about how brick and mortar companies are competing with Amazon.

[UNT90]

Well, her father never said anything much, he skipped out at birth. Her mom (my niece) won't be able to affort $17 - $20k per year for UNT. and there are going to be a lot more students like this. Things change quickly, UNT could become like the brick and mortar retailers competing with Amazon.

Well, time to look for some student loans, then.

I mean, you were a tough guy and paid your way through college, I'm sure your grand niece has it in her, also.

Edited April 26, 2013 by UNT90