For those who question the commitment

[GRN-WHT]

I just don't understand why it's such an impossibility to find a way to acquire the funds for a buyout. Be creative and persistent like any other serious Division I program would, and get it done; then, you will probably end up saving money in the long run. In fact, I'll give you an idea: agree to play one additional money game in football at some point over the course of the next four years and boom, the majority of the buyout is in the bag. Or if you don't like sacrificing a game in football for the sake of saving basketball as we know it, then how about this: When you have a group of wealthy donors who are ready and willing to raise a few million dollars in a single month, you press upon them the vital importance of first gathering the money for a buyout. Next, you collect that money, and finally you proceed with the construction of a practice facility and scoreboard after maybe a several month delay.

Every athletic program in the nation that cares about winning finds a way to buyout disastrous coaches the minute it becomes clear that they are, in fact, disasters. Programs that don't, well, don't. It's as simple as that.

It doesn't help that our group of wealthy donors fully support Benford and RV. Until they change their minds, in the words of TTG, we're F'd.

[Greendylan]

It doesn't help that our group of wealthy donors fully support Benford and RV. Until they change their minds, in the words of TTG, we're F'd.

You're absolutely right, but then shouldn't part of RV's job be to persuade those donors to see the necessity of a buyout?

[UNT90]

It doesn't help that our group of wealthy donors fully support Benford and RV. Until they change their minds, in the words of TTG, we're F'd.

Well, if true, then RV has done his job well in using friendships to ensure employment.

Again, this SHOULD NOT be tolerated by the UNT administration, but they just simply do not care.

[oldguystudent]

I don't sense the same commitment to Benford that I did with Dodge. I sense pure economics right now instead of blind faith, ever chasing the dragon.

[greenminer]

It doesn't help that our group of wealthy donors fully support Benford and RV. Until they change their minds, in the words of TTG, we're F'd.

FFRick, am I misreading your posts? You seem to chime in every now and then about how important donors are getting the jab.

Between your posts and the quote above, getting mixed signals here.

[Andrew]

Stop with the negativity. It is so funny that one man is making people get their panties in a bundle.... As if the world is ending. Good grief. Harry posts something positive and immediately it gets taken to negative town.

[adman]

Great post Tasty.

And Andrew I don't take what Tasty has written as negative, simply honest and perhaps more honest than I want to be about the current state of athletic affairs at NT.

(Please stay Sujay and John Hedlund!)

Edited April 24, 2013 by adman

[Cooley]

The basketball program is not doomed! (This year or next year with similar results). Basketball is the quickest program to turn around of the major team sports. Baylor, just a few years ago, was as low as you could get after the Dave Bliss fiasco. Scott Drew turned that program into a top 20 program in a very short period of time. Other examples exist all over the country. After the early returns, it has been a bad hire but nothing to panic about. There are no assurances that JJ would have made the tournament this past year or even achieved .500 in CUSA next season.

I'm no more pleased with Benford than anyone else. I don't feel, however, that we can afford (not literally) to fire a coach after 1 year; due to the backlash within the coaching ranks. Now, I am totally in favor of seeing how the early season plays out next year prior to making a move. Let Rob Evans finish out the season on an interim basis or one of the other assistants. It is too late in the recruiting period to bring someone else in that could improve this roster.

RV, who also isn't going anywhere, would be able to save some face knowing that he didn't have to fire his new basketball coach after one season (Which makes him look bad). I just wish we could channel some of this anger and venom toward Coach Mac for the lack of improvement in football. How many years should we give this guy? The only difference between Mac and Benford is that Benford inherited a winning program. Mac, on the other hand, continues to compain about what he inherited when he got here. What he does have is a huge contract (UNT standards), new conference & a new mid-major stadium.

Go Mean Green!

Edited April 24, 2013 by Cooley

[UNT90]

The basketball program is not doomed! (This year or next year with similar results). Basketball is the quickest program to turn around of the major team sports. Baylor, just a few years ago, was as low as you could get after the Dave Bliss fiasco. Scott Drew turned that program into a top 20 program in a very short period of time. Other examples exist all over the country. After the early returns, it has been a bad hire but nothing to panic about. There are no assurances that JJ would have made the tournament this past year or even achieved .500 in CUSA next season.

I'm no more pleased with Benford than anyone else. I don't feel, however, that we can afford (not literally) to fire a coach after 1 year; due to the backlash within the coaching ranks. Now, I am totally in favor of seeing how the early season plays out next year prior to making a move. Let Rob Evans finish out the season on an interim basis or one of the other assistants. It is too late in the recruiting period to bring someone else in that could improve this roster.

RV, who also isn't going anywhere, would be able to save some face knowing that he didn't have to fire his new basketball coach after one season (Which makes him look bad). I just wish we could channel some of this anger and venom toward Coach Mac for the lack of improvement in football. How many years should we give this guy? The only difference between Mac and Benford is that Benford inherited a winning program. Mac, on the other hand, continues to compain about what he inherited when he got here. What he does have is a huge contract (UNT standards), new conference & a new mid-major stadium.

Go Mean Green!

Mac's judgement year is this year. If we go 2-10 like a national publication expects, it will be just as negative on the football board as it is on the basketball board.

Remember, Mac;s first team wasn't the pre-season unanamous choice of the league coach's to win the championship. Things would be MUCH different if it was.

Edited April 24, 2013 by UNT90

[ragpicker]

It's not the commitment of the private donors (scoreboard, basketball practice facility), the students (Apogee Stadium), or the fundraising effort of the AD that led to some of the increases in facilities that I question.

I do question the mindset that losing is ok and the mindset that allows a coach that is in way over his head to remain as head coach.

Harry, you are right, you have to put disappointment behind you, but you also have to correct the decisions that led to that disappointment, or you risk experiencing that disappointment over and over and over again. If you will notice, I didn't go really negative until we refused to correct an obvious mistake in basketball. I see no way we win more than 10 games next year. Hope I'm wrong.

But my question to you is, when is it enough? How can you expect Benford to win more games next year in a tougher conference with less talent? If he doesn't win 10 ganes next year, then what will the administration do about it?

I submit nothing, because that really isn't their focus. Like Jim (?) has posted many times, there is not and probably will never be the appropriate emphasis on athletics at this university.

Why do I say that? When your chancellor can't even defend a student athletics fee in Austin, a fee that UTSA and Tx St has x 2 over us, and allows that fee to be tied to paying off the stadium and future construction, that is an example of just not really caring about athletics . Why can't we have WHAT JUST ABOUT EVERY OTHER PUBLIC UNIVERSITY IN TEXAS HAS?

Has the athletic fee been raised? I don't think so, and we are allowed to raise it $2 per semester hour every year. If you are trying to fund an underfunded athletics department, why in the hell wouldn't you raise it ?

It's just a lack of commitment to athletics. That's who we have always been and probably who we always will be. I'll eventually accept it, but it's gonna take some time.

I know so little, but the athletic fee problem is a mystery to me. Can anyone explain it as succinctly and plainly as possible?

[Cooley]

Mac's judgement year is this year. If we go 2-10 like a national publication expects, it will be just as negative on the football board as it is on the basketball board.

Remember, Mac;s first team wasn't the pre-season unanamous choice of the league coach's to win the championship. Things would be MUCH different if it was.

I'm not trying to defend Benford but Mac didn't lose key starters and reserves for most of the season either. I wouldn't be so down on Mac if he hadn't come in here bashing Dodge and crying about his circumstances. At the same time, proclaiming that he was some Bear Bryant type of coach who would turn this thing around. The athletic department made a huge commitment to him and football and we are still a losing program; with no improvement in sight. I also don't think our "off the radar" recruits are going to turn things around anytime soon. I honestly don't see a difference.

[UNT90]

I'm not trying to defend Benford but Mac didn't lose key starters and reserves for most of the season either. I wouldn't be so down on Mac if he hadn't come in here bashing Dodge and crying about his circumstances. At the same time, proclaiming that he was some Bear Bryant type of coach who would turn this thing around. The athletic department made a huge commitment to him and football and we are still a losing program; with no improvement in sight. I also don't think our "off the radar" recruits are going to turn things around anytime soon. I honestly don't see a difference.

I agree with a lot of this, but 1/5 of Benford's starting roster is a probable 1st round NBA pick, and was a lottery pick before Benford coached him out of that position.

If Mac had 2 first round NFL picks on offense and defense, expectations would have been MUCH higher.

If I never hear Mac talk about his days at other schools, that won't be soon enough.

[Green Dozer]

I agree with a lot of this, but 1/5 of Benford's starting roster is a probable 1st round NBA pick, and was a lottery pick before Benford coached him out of that position.

If Mac had 2 first round NFL picks on offense and defense, expectations would have been MUCH higher.

If I never hear Mac talk about his days at other schools, that won't be soon enough.

Did Mac coach in a Rose Bowl?

Edited April 24, 2013 by Green Dozer

[foutsrouts]

Mac's judgement year is this year. If we go 2-10 like a national publication expects, it will be just as negative on the football board as it is on the basketball board.

Remember, Mac;s first team wasn't the pre-season unanamous choice of the league coach's to win the championship. Things would be MUCH different if it was.

Yes, this is the year of the Mac. If he doesn't end up close to .500 (5-7 and above), I suspect that he will enter Benforddom as far as criticism is concerned. He's the guy in charge of recruiting, so he has to make the best out of what he's got.

I just hope that he turns out to be a guy who can somehow turn 2 star players into 3 and 4 star players in bunches. He has got 4 months left now to get his message across to the combatants.

[CMJ]

Late to the thread, but that was a brilliant post TTG.

[MGhoops]

Right there with you Tasty. Great post.

Things will never change. But let's say Benford was fired tomorrow...Is there that much confidence that his replacement would be any better? I guess you can say whomever it would be couldn't be much worse, but the question is would they really be that much better that they could get this sliding terd to stop leaving skid marks heading into the D1 toilet?

I'm not sure that RV is capable of making the right hire. This thing really just needs to move in a whole new direction or it will never be able to change course.

You know who would make a good AD? President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho!

And the new facilities are great, but we are only impressing ourselves. Four and Five stars aren't knocking down the door to play at Apogee or get in some shoot around time in the new practice facility.

So yea. Pretty much F'd.

[FirefightnRick]

GRN-WHT, on 23 Apr 2013 - 17:31, said:

It doesn't help that our group of wealthy donors fully support Benford and RV. Until they change their minds, in the words of TTG, we're F'd.

FFRick, am I misreading your posts? You seem to chime in every now and then about how important donors are getting the jab.

Between your posts and the quote above, getting mixed signals here.

What? You quoted GRN-WHT above, not me.

Rick

Edited April 24, 2013 by FirefightnRick

[FirefightnRick]

BTW....We reassigned Simon, instead of buying him out. No reason it can't happen again down the road.

Rick

[Eagle61]

Whine, whine, whine. Jesus could turn water to wine and you guys can turn any thread to whine. Maybe I should switch my allegiance to UT or UTA. Seems that NT fans are just a bunch of whiners. And everyone loves a whiner. Whining will lose you a spouse, your friends and on-line friends. I hope you guys have a dog.

[CMJ]

Whine, whine, whine. Jesus could turn water to wine and you guys can turn any thread to whine. Maybe I should switch my allegiance to UT or UTA. Seems that NT fans are just a bunch of whiners. And everyone loves a whiner. Whining will lose you a spouse, your friends and on-line friends. I hope you guys have a dog.

I would venture if you went to their forums you'd also see complaining. It's what fan bases do when things aren't going well.

[meangreener]

Whine, whine, whine. Jesus could turn water to wine and you guys can turn any thread to whine. Maybe I should switch my allegiance to UT or UTA. Seems that NT fans are just a bunch of whiners. And everyone loves a whiner. Whining will lose you a spouse, your friends and on-line friends. I hope you guys have a dog.

This thread is a beating.

Mostly because it's completely true.

TTG, best post on here. Sums up our issues in a nutshell.

And, you, Eagle61, you seem fine with accepting mediocrity. We're just fed up with the way we push athletics. I remember my father was on campus and we were talking about the amount of students we have. His exact response was, "30,000 students? You guys need better athletic programs. Embarrassing." It is. We've made a commitment to facilities...but not to sports. That's why we won't tell Mac "7-5 or you are fired" or that Benford needs to be fired if he doesn't win 16+ games. We need to change this, or we will continue to deal with what we do. I just can't believe we now suck at basketball and football. The two main sports, we are awful at. Embarrassing. 30,000+ flagship state university. We suck at everything. It's embarrassing that we're still bottom tier. Enlighten me, any other flagship state universities that've been around as long as we have who suck at everything like we do?

Edited April 24, 2013 by meangreener

[Green P1]

Whine, whine, whine. Jesus could turn water to wine and you guys can turn any thread to whine. Maybe I should switch my allegiance to UT or UTA. Seems that NT fans are just a bunch of whiners. And everyone loves a whiner. Whining will lose you a spouse, your friends and on-line friends. I hope you guys have a dog.

Jesus turning water to wine just isn't a fair compassion. He took something good and made it awesome. Maybe if the story had been about Jesus turning fish to feces...

[Eagle61]

And, you, Eagle61, you seem fine with accepting mediocrity.

Maybe I can recognize the things I can do something about. If whining is going to do any good, then I expect a top 10 in every sport because of this site..

UNTnegative wants to gouge the students with a fee. Daddy signed his tuition checks, I'm sure. Students pay too much now. I would like to see the state raise taxes enough to support our colleges so that the everyone who can qualify can attend. Tuition should be tied to the minimum wage. Work the summer at minimum wage and you can attend college. I contribute twice as much (at least) to the Emerald scholars as I give to athletics. That program is for kids who come from households making under 40k. I would like for them to have the same opportunity that I had. I have spoken to Mary Crownover about lowering tuition. She didn't want to talk about it.

The plan for change here seems to be whine, whine, whine, and on every thread, no matter the subject. I haven't heard anything about someone stepping up except "somebody else".

[UNT90]

And, you, Eagle61, you seem fine with accepting mediocrity.

Maybe I can recognize the things I can do something about. If whining is going to do any good, then I expect a top 10 in every sport because of this site..

UNTnegative wants to gouge the students with a fee. Daddy signed his tuition checks, I'm sure. Students pay too much now. I would like to see the state raise taxes enough to support our colleges so that the everyone who can qualify can attend. Tuition should be tied to the minimum wage. Work the summer at minimum wage and you can attend college. I contribute twice as much (at least) to the Emerald scholars as I give to athletics. That program is for kids who come from households making under 40k. I would like for them to have the same opportunity that I had. I have spoken to Mary Crownover about lowering tuition. She didn't want to talk about it.

The plan for change here seems to be whine, whine, whine, and on every thread, no matter the subject. I haven't heard anything about someone stepping up except "somebody else".

So let me get this straight.

You don't want our athletic department to have a student fee equal to UTSA and Texas St.?

No wonder you are perfectly fine with mediocrity. You endorse it.

Glad that you give to the Emerald Eagle fund. I think everyone should support what they want to support with their own money.

If a portion of the Emerald Eagle fund had been severely mismanaged and had severely underperformed, would you be upset? Or, would you just tell people that were upset to stop whining and accept it?

Or would you just stop contributing to the Emerald Eagle fund?

And why don't we leave personal insults out of the conversation.

Edited April 24, 2013 by UNT90

[meangreener]

And, you, Eagle61, you seem fine with accepting mediocrity.

Maybe I can recognize the things I can do something about. If whining is going to do any good, then I expect a top 10 in every sport because of this site..

UNTnegative wants to gouge the students with a fee. Daddy signed his tuition checks, I'm sure. Students pay too much now. I would like to see the state raise taxes enough to support our colleges so that the everyone who can qualify can attend. Tuition should be tied to the minimum wage. Work the summer at minimum wage and you can attend college. I contribute twice as much (at least) to the Emerald scholars as I give to athletics. That program is for kids who come from households making under 40k. I would like for them to have the same opportunity that I had. I have spoken to Mary Crownover about lowering tuition. She didn't want to talk about it.

The plan for change here seems to be whine, whine, whine, and on every thread, no matter the subject. I haven't heard anything about someone stepping up except "somebody else".

Or, maybe, just maybe, I support a tuition hike because every other school has an athletic fee, and, the cost of UNT is too cheap for what you get. We massively undersell ourselves. If we insist on being cheap, an athletic fee would keep us "cheap" but is necessary.

Tuition overall is too expensive compared to other countries,, but we might as well be overpriced like every other school in the US.

Edited April 24, 2013 by meangreener