For those who question the commitment

[UNT90]

You are correct, UNT90....perception is a powerful thing. It's like if you say something enough times, you think people might just start believing it.

I don't have to say anything, KRAM.

The casual Alum is shown time and again that we don't care about athletics when we refuse to do what every other university that is serious about athletics would have done. And we are told time and again that we are just too poor to act like powers such as USM.

That sends it's own message.

[flyonthewall]

Seriously, we have a small group of alums that are providing the where with all to do these difficult things, like buy out contracts, pay assistant coaches more etc... That is how we paid McCarney et al, and how we paid Benford, et al and Peterson et al. This group watches (watched) the same games you do (did). This group talks about the same things you do (did). This group wants to win as bad as you do or they would not put up the hundreds of thousands of dollars (collectively 7 figures) that it takes (took) to do certain things. In meetings this group talks about how the SCHOOL should be paying coaches salaries etc...and donor dollars should be going to facilities and funding student athlete scholarships. But unfortunately, that is not the way it works here, and it is not the way it works at SMU, TCU, and many other places. We are working to get our student fee in line with our competition. The more you donate, the more we are able to do these difficult things that you are talking about. But to say we do not have commitment is just not fair to a lot of people who are doing everything they can do to make things better for everyone.

If I was ever negative about any kid, or put the blame for a basketball season on any kid publicly, then I wish I could take it back. At the same time I do not see any reason to publicly bash on an internet forum any coach, admin, player or anyone else involved in North Texas Athletics. There is a time for "private conversation", and a time for "public conversation".

I know you are mad Mr. UNT90, but recruits read this board, and some of the things that you say could be harmful. Some of the things you say leave me saying "Why am I doing what I am doing for our school?" We are not too poor. We are finally tapping the wells of our many very wealthy alums that want exactly what you want. It is been bad in the past, but we are light years ahead of where we were ten years ago. Can you at least admit that? That we are finally in every sport giving our student athletes first class facilities to compete and practice in. That there is no excuse for any coach to not have the tools to come here and succeed? That is the goal. To remove every excuse. Our weight room is not nice enough? B.S. it is as nice as any in the country. Our basketball gym is top notch. Our football stadium is a palace. If a coach cannot win here, he or she should be gone. Period. That is what I believe, and that is what your athletic director believes.

And I still think that if Johnny Jones would have been here with this team, the record would have been very similar. Blast me on this if you want to, and I respect your opinion. But we had no one who could shoot from the outside, and it killed our inside game.

David

Edited May 6, 2013 by flyonthewall

[UNT90]

Seriously, we have a small group of alums that are providing the where with all to do these difficult things, like buy out contracts, pay assistant coaches more etc... That is how we paid McCarney et al, and how we paid Benford, et al and Peterson et al. This group watches (watched) the same games you do (did). This group talks about the same things you do (did). This group wants to win as bad as you do or they would not put up the hundreds of thousands of dollars (collectively 7 figures) that it takes (took) to do certain things. In meetings this group talks about how the SCHOOL should be paying coaches salaries etc...and donor dollars should be going to facilities and funding student athlete scholarships. But unfortunately, that is not the way it works here, and it is not the way it works at SMU, TCU, and many other places. We are working to get our student fee in line with our competition. The more you donate, the more we are able to do these difficult things that you are talking about. But to say we do not have commitment is just not fair to a lot of people who are doing everything they can do to make things better for everyone.

If I was ever negative about any kid, or put the blame for a basketball season on any kid publicly, then I wish I could take it back. At the same time I do not see any reason to publicly bash on an internet forum any coach, admin, player or anyone else involved in North Texas Athletics. There is a time for "private conversation", and a time for "public conversation".

I know you are mad Mr. UNT90, but recruits read this board, and some of the things that you say could be harmful. Some of the things you say leave me saying "Why am I doing what I am doing for our school?" We are not too poor. We are finally tapping the wells of our many very wealthy alums that want exactly what you want. It is been bad in the past, but we are light years ahead of where we were ten years ago. Can you at least admit that? That we are finally in every sport giving our student athletes first class facilities to compete and practice in. That there is no excuse for any coach to not have the tools to come here and succeed? That is the goal. To remove every excuse. Our weight room is not nice enough? B.S. it is as nice as any in the country. Our basketball gym is top notch. Our football stadium is a palace. If a coach cannot win here, he or she should be gone. Period. That is what I believe, and that is what your athletic director believes.

And I still think that if Johnny Jones would have been here with this team, the record would have been very similar. Blast me on this if you want to, and I respect your opinion. But we had no one who could shoot from the outside, and it killed our inside game.

David

The improvement in facilities have been fantastic, and I'm not bashing any donors or alumni. If it wasn't for people like you, we wouldn't be where we are today.

I question whether the people who lead this university share your vision and passion for the improvement of the athletic programs. I think it's a pretty fair question to ask when the student athletic fee is not defended on the legislature, allowing it to be tied to stadium financing. I think it's a fair question when a USM wouldn't have stood for what happened in the basketball program last year.

Lack of an putside shooter has nothing to do with defense and rebounding, which were not good this year. I did a statistical breakdown of this year vs last year on which every single returning player had worse stats. That's not player development. There was so much more wrong than just missing an outside shooter.

If this team wins less than 10 ganes next year, what then? Will there be the excuse of not having a true center? Will we replace a coach ever that isn't in their 3rd or 4th year?

You asked me in a previous post if I talked to Benfprd. I don't want to talk to the man. I don't want to be his friend. I want him to win basketball games! I saw everything I needed to see at home games this year from a pretty good vantage point. I hope win are competitive in CUSA next year, but I severly doubt that will happen.

Then what?

[JesseMartin]

Seriously, we have a small group of alums that are providing the where with all to do these difficult things, like buy out contracts, pay assistant coaches more etc...

Wherewithal...probably the weirdest contraction in the English language.

[Greendylan]

Yeah, it's a fair point to suggest that our lack of outside shooting just may have been the type of weakness that would have prevented any coach from winning 25 games or more. But 12? Are we seriously reintroducing the "Brandan Walton was the heart and soul of our offense argument"? I mean, I like the guy, but I never heard anyone emphasize his monumental importance to the team prior to this past season.

I do think we will have some better jump shooters, including Walton, next year. So, can we all agree that there is no excuse not to have at least a decent season next year and that this should be clear after the first month or so? I'm hoping for the best, but if the first several weeks of the season look to be the same or worse than this year with a revamped lineup, then would an immediate change be appropriate?

[flyonthewall]

I question the commitment of our administration also, and because they seem complacent, decided to become part of the solution.

[KRAM1]

I question the commitment of our administration also, and because they seem complacent, decided to become part of the solution.

If only more would take this same course. It is a choice...one can be part of the solution or part of the problem. Thank you for making the choice you have. It is not the easy choice. The easy choice, well we all know what that is and exactly what it looks like and exactly what the results are of that choice, is one far too many seem to have chosen. Your choice, however, is one that is making a significant and positive difference for student-athletes and programs at UNT. Thank you.

[JesseMartin]

If only more would take this same course. It is a choice...one can be part of the solution or part of the problem. Thank you for making the choice you have. It is not the easy choice. The easy choice, well we all know what that is and exactly what it looks like and exactly what the results are of that choice, is one far too many seem to have chosen. Your choice, however, is one that is making a significant and positive difference for student-athletes and programs at UNT. Thank you.

What he said.

[MeanGreenTexan]

If only more would take this same course. It is a choice...one can be part of the solution or part of the problem. Thank you for making the choice you have. It is not the easy choice. The easy choice, well we all know what that is and exactly what it looks like and exactly what the results are of that choice, is one far too many seem to have chosen. Your choice, however, is one that is making a significant and positive difference for student-athletes and programs at UNT. Thank you.

We're lucky to have alumns/fans like flyonthewall. No doubt. Not everyone is in a financial situation to make this kind of impact.

I think most, if not all of us on this forum have made the choice to be a part of the solution financially. My MCG donation & season tickets may seem measly to you or flyonthewall, but I assure you it is significant for my family.

Now, I believe UNT90 has indicated before that he is a club seat holder. This means his financial contribution dwarfs mine and probably puts him in the top 20% of all contributors to UNT athletics.

In many of our cases, without any audience at the AD, a collective voice here is fairly impactful.

In flyonthewall's case, his discussions are to be had privately. He is in a privileged position. I'm glad he's there. Even still, flyonthewall's voice is going to be more powerful than the grumbling done on this fan forum.

You may say, "money is not the only way to make an impact.", and to that I totally agree. Yet there are numerous accounts of folks like Emmitt and FFR who aproach the AD with ideas to help and are rebuffed.

And please don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Rick's for sure. Looking at the state of athletics at UNT from when I was a student to where we are now is drastically different... in a very good way.

[UNT90]

I question the commitment of our administration also, and because they seem complacent, decided to become part of the solution.

And I thank God you are in a position to do so. I do what I can financial. Club seats were an investment for me, and one I am not running away from, but one that is a serious money commitment for me.

So I wouldn't call myself part of the problem.

If we want more people involved, more donors, better attendance, more media coverage, etc., we have to show those out there with a watchful eye that we are serious about athletics. Having a crash and burn season like last year, with all the circumstances that surrounded it, and doing nothing about it sends the message that for all the cosmetic changes, it's still a pig under all that lipstick.

These aren't just my feelings, this is what I have been told by several alums I had tried to re-involve with UNT. One was even an ex-athlete who played on some successful teams..

So, call me part of the problem if you want (general statement, not directed at Fly), but just realize that there are probably many more "part of the problems" out there that don't contribute, but would if the "problems" were fixed.

Edited May 7, 2013 by UNT90

[KRAM1]

Don't know why folks want to "compare how much" as a factor in being part of the problem or part of the solution. It is not how much it is only "if" when it comes to the financial aspect of support. However, there is much more involved in being part of the solution than just writing a check. It is so much more than that, and that is the additional part that needs a good bit of "working on" when it comes to the so-called UNT fan base.

It's not two adolescent boys playing the "mine's bigger than yours" game which so many here seem to want to make it about. It is also about attitude, time, talent and how folks do or do not support UNT in a positive way in public...at each and every opportunity. It is about pride in and for UNT...it is about so much more than money. Folks who don't get that, well....one can be part of the solution or part of the problem...it is a personal choice. We all make it each and every day.

So, again, I thank flyonthewall (and others...many right here on GMG.Com) for being part of the solution.

I will also add that being part of the solution does not mean one is OK with the recent won/loss situation in the major sports at UNT...so do not even try to go there! It might however mean something about how one goes about trying to correct that situation.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Don't know why folks want to "compare how much" as a factor in being part of the problem or part of the solution. It is not how much it is only "if" when it comes to the financial aspect of support. However, there is much more involved in being part of the solution than just writing a check. It is so much more than that, and that is the additional part that needs a good bit of "working on" when it comes to the so-called UNT fan base.

It's not two adolescent boys playing the "mine's bigger than yours" game which so many here seem to want to make it about. It is also about attitude, time, talent and how folks do or do not support UNT in a positive way in public...at each and every opportunity. It is about pride in and for UNT...it is about so much more than money. Folks who don't get that, well....one can be part of the solution or part of the problem...it is a personal choice. We all make it each and every day.

So, again, I thank flyonthewall (and others...many right here on GMG.Com) for being part of the solution.

I will also add that being part of the solution does not mean one is OK with the recent won/loss situation in the major sports at UNT...so do not even try to go there! It might however mean something about how one goes about trying to correct that situation.

And as far as donating time, talent and efforts, you're like our T-Boone. You're very appreciated!

[flyonthewall]

I don't understand what part of the problem is not being fixed. We have removed every excuse every coach could ever have to be successful. Practice facilities, weight rooms, sports medicine facility, upgrades to existing venues, new venues for soccer, volleyball and football. If that is not fixing problems I don't know what is. We had a coach leave in basketball that this athletic director hired. He went to his alma mater LSU. There is no amount of money that could have kept him here. An assistant coach with a track record at some big time basketball programs was hired. He brought with him some assistants with track records as head coaches.

You just can't fire a coach after one year. You have to give him a chance. Last season was a failure, complete and total failure. The year before was a failure also though. Mediocre at best in OOC games. Just above 500 in belt play. A good run in the tournament and some good bounces in the draw with Middle getting beat early to make it to the championship game, only to get beat by Western FFFing Kentucky with I believe a losing record (or near .500) in the final. With our all american superstar getting schooled by a 6 11 guy that looked like the second coming of manute bol. Are you saying that year before last was a good year based on preseason hype? Or was it just a signal of what was to come regardless of who was coaching this season?

Are you going to say that the all american looked good in that last game against western, with JJones coaching? I had it recorded and when I got home the announcers mention several times about his lack of hustle. I wonder about this every day. Did Johnny know what he had coming back and knew even though he was about the 5th guy that LSU talked to that he wanted to go there? Because if he didn't he might not get another chance?

[UNT90]

I don't understand what part of the problem is not being fixed. We have removed every excuse every coach could ever have to be successful. Practice facilities, weight rooms, sports medicine facility, upgrades to existing venues, new venues for soccer, volleyball and football. If that is not fixing problems I don't know what is. We had a coach leave in basketball that this athletic director hired. He went to his alma mater LSU. There is no amount of money that could have kept him here. An assistant coach with a track record at some big time basketball programs was hired. He brought with him some assistants with track records as head coaches.

You just can't fire a coach after one year. You have to give him a chance. Last season was a failure, complete and total failure. The year before was a failure also though. Mediocre at best in OOC games. Just above 500 in belt play. A good run in the tournament and some good bounces in the draw with Middle getting beat early to make it to the championship game, only to get beat by Western FFFing Kentucky with I believe a losing record (or near .500) in the final. With our all american superstar getting schooled by a 6 11 guy that looked like the second coming of manute bol. Are you saying that year before last was a good year based on preseason hype? Or was it just a signal of what was to come regardless of who was coaching this season?

Are you going to say that the all american looked good in that last game against western, with JJones coaching? I had it recorded and when I got home the announcers mention several times about his lack of hustle. I wonder about this every day. Did Johnny know what he had coming back and knew even though he was about the 5th guy that LSU talked to that he wanted to go there? Because if he didn't he might not get another chance?

JJ's main go to players were freshmen. JJ lost 2 of those go to freshmen to grades. JJ lost hogans for much of the year to knee problems.

JJ still finished .500 in conference and was 4 minutes away from a return trip to the NCAA tourney.

But, most of all, JJ left a very talent team for Benford to coach, and Benford managed to turn those key freshmen, the. Sophomores, into worse players than they were as freshmen. Those numbers don't lie.

This team was a consensus pick to win the the west. Apparently every other coach thought we had talent, also

Surely you can see the difference from firing Mac after year one with what he had and firing Benford after a year that he took a consensus pick to win the West and posted 6 conference wins, lost to a D2 school in the most visible pre-season tournament we have played in decades, and suffers 2 losses to a 4 win foe.

JJ got his dream job. He wouldn't have left for any other with what he had coming back. Hell, he didn't leave for Auburn when he knew these kids were coming.

We don't win 10 games next year. Mark it.

As far as for what hasn't been fixed, that's easy. Winning. And consequences for not doing so.

Edited May 8, 2013 by UNT90

[Green P1]

I said a long time ago that nothing constructive could/would be accomplished by discussing this basketball program over the offseason... I won't be proven wrong.

[KRAM1]

I said a long time ago that nothing constructive could/would be accomplished by discussing this basketball program over the offseason... I won't be proven wrong.

True dat!

[emmitt01]

" An assistant coach with a track record at some big time basketball programs was hired. He brought with him some assistants with track records as head coaches."

Right after we were told that those without head coaching experience need not apply.

[flyonthewall]

Who told you that? Every good head coach in every sport was an assistant at some point. That is just dumb to say that "only coaches with head coaching experience should apply"

[UNTFan23]

Who told you that? Every good head coach in every sport was an assistant at some point. That is just dumb to say that "only coaches with head coaching experience should apply"

Shanice Stephens approves this post.

[emmitt01]

Who told you that? Every good head coach in every sport was an assistant at some point. That is just dumb to say that "only coaches with head coaching experience should apply"

If it's dumb then somebody should have told Vito during the coaching search.

" He would fit Villarreal’s criteria in that he has been a head coach before."

"Benford is a great assistant looking for a break. The only problem is that UNT has said it won’t hire an assistant coach."

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2012/04/sunday-night-coach-search-upda-1.html/

Aint google fun?

[flyonthewall]

I am not saying that no one said that. I am saying to eliminate a coach because it is the first time he was a head coach would be dumb, and if Rick V. said that he probably said something like "We would like to find someone with head coaching experience, but we are also willing to take a good assistant if available". He found Mike Peterson by calling to ask him if there were any good assistants in the ACC that he thought he should interview, because of their past relationship at TCU and Peterson's success at Wake. Peterson said "Why not me?", and that is how that got started. Vito has no idea what the real truth is. He does no prying to find out. I read some of his articles about things that are "occuring" and just laugh at him. If he went one layer deep in to the spin it would be amazing what he could actually report. So anything vito reports on is either two weeks old news normally or just not the way things really are.

Edited May 8, 2013 by flyonthewall

[Green P1]

Wow... Way to sling your mud all over Vito.

Stay classy.

[untjim1995]

I am not saying that no one said that. I am saying to eliminate a coach because it is the first time he was a head coach would be dumb, and if Rick V. said that he probably said something like "We would like to find someone with head coaching experience, but we are also willing to take a good assistant if available". He found Mike Peterson by calling to ask him if there were any good assistants in the ACC that he thought he should interview, because of their past relationship at TCU and Peterson's success at Wake. Peterson said "Why not me?", and that is how that got started. Vito has no idea what the real truth is. He does no prying to find out. I read some of his articles about things that are "occuring" and just laugh at him. If he went one layer deep in to the spin it would be amazing what he could actually report. So anything vito reports on is either two weeks old news normally or just not the way things really are.

OK, Brett Vito knows the pulse of the athletic department more than any other person in town that doesn't actually work at UNT. You just don't like what he reports...

And I'm cool with what you post about firing a first-year coach--it usually costs too much to do. But the person who did the hiring can be dealt with sternly. At a bare minimum, after hiring Todd Dodge, Shanice Stephens, and now Tony Benford, RV should get a cut in pay. I cannot think of one other place where the AD who was responsible for the hires of the three main sports that are considered 3 of the worst hires in school history would keep his job. RV may have done a great job with tailgating and being positive about UNT Athletics to fans and the media, but the AD needs to hire the right personnel. And if Dan McCarney doesn't win here in the next two years, you can add yet another bad hire to the list.

[MeanGreenTexan]

OK, Brett Vito knows the pulse of the athletic department more than any other person in town that doesn't actually work at UNT. You just don't like what he reports...

....

I don't think you know who you're talking to.

You can take flyonthewall's word to the bank. Not the nicest way to out Vito, but he's definitely more "in-the-know" than Vito.

[UNT90]

I am not saying that no one said that. I am saying to eliminate a coach because it is the first time he was a head coach would be dumb, and if Rick V. said that he probably said something like "We would like to find someone with head coaching experience, but we are also willing to take a good assistant if available". He found Mike Peterson by calling to ask him if there were any good assistants in the ACC that he thought he should interview, because of their past relationship at TCU and Peterson's success at Wake. Peterson said "Why not me?", and that is how that got started. Vito has no idea what the real truth is. He does no prying to find out. I read some of his articles about things that are "occuring" and just laugh at him. If he went one layer deep in to the spin it would be amazing what he could actually report. So anything vito reports on is either two weeks old news normally or just not the way things really are.

That basketball team screamed for an experienced coach hire. It didn't happen.

That would have been fine if Benford had shown ANY sign that he can be a successful coach at this level. He didn't.

What if Coach Mac and Benford have another bad year in their respective upcoming seasons? Are we prepared to buy both, or either, out?

What will the consequences be for RV if this happens? None? Because we think he is a swell guy?

(Rhetorical)

Edited May 8, 2013 by UNT90