PJ officially transferring

UNT90 · April 10, 2013

Exactly. Some people want to keep believing that we are still this little teacher college with low earning alumns that don't or won't give. We have a big business dept (we have other impressive dept's as well but using business as an example because I am familiar with it) with some very successful alumn's that make a very good living. You don't have to be the CEO to make a decent amount of money and we do have plenty of business alum that fit that bill. Like UNT90 said, if the AD really wanted to buy out Benford's contract, we could raise the money quickly.

We as a university HAVE to get out of this mindset that we can't do certain things now just because we couldn't in the past. NT is completely different in so many ways that there is no comparison to even 5-7 years ago.

I agree with you, except for the fact that several things are still the same from 3-7 years ago. Lee Jackson is still chancellor, RV is still AD, and we have regressed in athletics despite huge upgrades in facilities.

I wonder where the responsibility lies.

UNTLifer · April 10, 2013

Yes that's what we need....boo him in a room with 100 people in it. Why have we not thought of this before?

Maybe a room of eleven would be more effective than the caravan or a fan board.

http://untsystem.edu/regents/profiles.htm

Greendylan · April 10, 2013

I almost hate to say this but perhaps at the coaches caravans we should all boo Coach Benford mercilessly instead of applauding him. It might not even be a bad idea for us to get up and walk out of the room. Heck if people wanted to start chanting “fire Benford” I would join in with them. I believe that one reason why the athletic department hasn’t gotten rid of Benford is because they’re not feeling any real heat from the fan base over this decision. A lot of other fan bases of other schools would have voiced their disappointment and displeasure in some way at a game or an athletic event a long time ago.

While this sounds a bit harsh, I agree with the essence of what you're saying, which is that the alumni are not doing their job of shouting, "This is unacceptable!" Some of you have recently been asking, "Why constantly bitch on here? What good does it do?" Well, I think it changes everything . . . but only if our voices are so loud, united, and consistent that the Athletic Department and BOR know that they have no choice but to make a change or face an empty Super Pit for the next couple years.

When only a couple dozen Mean Green supporters (even on a fan message board) really voice any frustration after the most disappointing season in school history, then that sends the unequivocal message that we just don't give a damn when it comes down to it. Make no mistake about it, our once (just a few months ago) proud program--the program that was the savior of our athletic department during the humiliating Dodge years--has been dismantled before our very eyes, and we're doing . . . nothing.

greenjoe · April 10, 2013

I'm frustrated as well. However, not attending games only proves what some recruits already think-that playing at North Texas means playing to only 2,500 fans.

And the notion of booing a coach at the Coach's Caravan is not only a bad PR idea, it's rude.

If one is unhappy with a coach or an AD employee or a program, a letter to the AD will get his attention and, I would think, a written reply. I don't know if a single letter will get the desired results or not, but a flood of letters would certainly get some consideration.

GO MEAN GREEN

Greendylan · April 10, 2013

I'm frustrated as well. However, not attending games only proves what some recruits already think-that playing at North Texas means playing to only 2,500 fans.

And the notion of booing a coach at the Coach's Caravan is not only a bad PR idea, it's rude.

If one is unhappy with a coach or an AD employee or a program, a letter to the AD will get his attention and, I would think, a written reply. I don't know if a single letter will get the desired results or not, but a flood of letters would certainly get some consideration.

GO MEAN GREEN

I'm relatively certain that Reality Check's suggestion of booing at the Coach's Caravan was meant more as hyperbole than a literal statement. Also, let me clarify that I am not in any way advocating not showing up at home games. However, our (those on this board) frustrations are somewhat suggestive of our alumni as a whole. If people on here are becoming disenchanted with our performances on game day, imagine what the average alum thinks? They probably went back to not caring one bit about our basketball team the minute we lost to UAH. Now that they see that our leadership intends to do absolutely nothing about the problem, they won't attend a game for years to come. The way things are headed, 2500 is VERY optimistic for the next few seasons.

Eagle61 · April 10, 2013

I have some shocking news. We have been playing to at best a 60% empty house since the Blakeley days. The best under Johnny was about 4,000. For a school of 35,000, that is a disgrace. The attendance by year is listed if you go to meangreensports, to basketball, to stats and select the latest information link. It is at the top of the page. It has all our records, anything you want to know about basketball. We drew as little as 1200 average after the new pit was built. A crowd of 4,000 in a 10,000 is an embarrassment. Sometimes I think we should introduce the crowd to the players to start the game. So not showing up to protest the coach will be hard to detect. When we bring in a recruit, seeing half the bottom bowl filled and no one the the upper seats would not compare well with the full stadiums at OK state, as Marcus Smart said. Chicken and egg situation. If we had better teams, we could draw more fans and we can't get a good team until we draw more fans.

CMJ · April 10, 2013

I will say that George Mason's arena seats around the same number at the Super Pit. This is a program with MUCH more success than us (including a Final Four for crying out loud!). They usually average in the 4-5K range WITH all that success. I believe they only averaged over 6K for the first couple of years after their FF appearance. You'd think that after making the Final Four they could approach capacity...at least the next season anyway!

BTW - George Mason has over 30K students too. Basically, I think they must be the UNT of Virginia, only with more success.

meangreener · April 10, 2013

Exactly. Some people want to keep believing that we are still this little teacher college with low earning alumns that don't or won't give. We have a big business dept (we have other impressive dept's as well but using business as an example because I am familiar with it) with some very successful alumn's that make a very good living. You don't have to be the CEO to make a decent amount of money and we do have plenty of business alum that fit that bill. Like UNT90 said, if the AD really wanted to buy out Benford's contract, we could raise the money quickly.

We as a university HAVE to get out of this mindset that we can't do certain things now just because we couldn't in the past. NT is completely different in so many ways that there is no comparison to even 5-7 years ago.

The small school mentality blows my mind. This is a huge school that is well respected that could have plenty of pull if they wanted. This school is far different (for the better) even in the last 3 years I've gone here.

untjim1995 · April 10, 2013

Exactly. Some people want to keep believing that we are still this little teacher college with low earning alumns that don't or won't give. We have a big business dept (we have other impressive dept's as well but using business as an example because I am familiar with it) with some very successful alumn's that make a very good living. You don't have to be the CEO to make a decent amount of money and we do have plenty of business alum that fit that bill. Like UNT90 said, if the AD really wanted to buy out Benford's contract, we could raise the money quickly.

We as a university HAVE to get out of this mindset that we can't do certain things now just because we couldn't in the past. NT is completely different in so many ways that there is no comparison to even 5-7 years ago.

The problem with this last sentence is that it really seems as if that athletics spending and support is counter-intuitive to a school that places a great value on being a "value" and heavily supports fine arts and education. I just don't know that you will ever convince the majority of UNT's core (BOR, administration, faculty, students, alumni, local citizenry, etc..) to fund the athletic department in a fashion that befits a university of our size because its not what the clear majority wants or finds acceptable. If the additional funding was to increase spending on the Green Brigade or on the Fine Arts College buildings and faculty, that spending would get ok'd in a heart beat by all involved. But sports is a differnet animal--at most schools in Texas, its used as a window to the university and it provides the university an opportunity to gets its core together. Here, it is the exact opposite. I just don't know if that is ever going to change.

Edited April 10, 2013 by untjim1995

All About UNT · April 10, 2013

For the record... I think booing him period is a very bad and tacky idea.

Greendylan · April 10, 2013

I have some shocking news. We have been playing to at best a 60% empty house since the Blakeley days. The best under Johnny was about 4,000. For a school of 35,000, that is a disgrace. The attendance by year is listed if you go to meangreensports, to basketball, to stats and select the latest information link. It is at the top of the page. It has all our records, anything you want to know about basketball. We drew as little as 1200 average after the new pit was built. A crowd of 4,000 in a 10,000 is an embarrassment. Sometimes I think we should introduce the crowd to the players to start the game. So not showing up to protest the coach will be hard to detect. When we bring in a recruit, seeing half the bottom bowl filled and no one the the upper seats would not compare well with the full stadiums at OK state, as Marcus Smart said. Chicken and egg situation. If we had better teams, we could draw more fans and we can't get a good team until we draw more fans.

OK, this is a good discussion. Here are our home attendance numbers in order from the 2004-05 season through this past one: 2285, 2147, 2067, 3178, 3004, 2716, 3552, 4006, 3518. I think it's pretty obvious that we were solidly trending upward, and that shift began after our appearance in the NCAA tournament in 2007. You're right that our best average, 4006, is still way too low, but it is worlds better than the 1200 average you mention in years past.

So, there are two points that we should take away from these numbers. 1. In recent years there does seem to be a correlation between success and attendance. 2. 3000-4000 may not be great, but it took us a long way to even work up to that, and all indications seemed to be that we were, for the most part, on an upward swing. Thus, we still do have a long way to fall, and averaging around 1000 will essentially set us decades behind. Falling that far in such a short amount of time would be absolutely catastrophic to our program . . . and it is almost inevitable, barring a dramatic change.

Eagle61 · April 10, 2013

One thing I have noticed, and I am sure everyone who attends notices also, is that there is often more local kids there for some promotion than NT students. That inflates attendance, which I am sure is the purpose of the promotion. And we schedule a lot of home games during the holidays, which loses what few students do come. Getting our students there will help recruiting in football and basketball, get us a better team, sell more tickets. The NT students are the key to our success. In the old pit, it seemed like the entire crowd was students.

rws69 · April 10, 2013

I'm frustrated as well. However, not attending games only proves what some recruits already think-that playing at North Texas means playing to only 2,500 fans.

And the notion of booing a coach at the Coach's Caravan is not only a bad PR idea, it's rude.

If one is unhappy with a coach or an AD employee or a program, a letter to the AD will get his attention and, I would think, a written reply. I don't know if a single letter will get the desired results or not, but a flood of letters would certainly get some consideration.

GO MEAN GREEN

I sent email to Dan Johnston early in the season. Response expressed confidence in Benford.

Green Dozer · April 11, 2013

I sent email to Dan Johnston early in the season. Response expressed confidence in Benford.

Not to be smart or disrespectful, but what did you expect Dan Johnston to say? The Athletic Department doesn't think like fans, and they are not going to publicly disparage a coach.

Green Dozer · April 11, 2013

I almost hate to say this but perhaps at the coaches caravans we should all boo Coach Benford mercilessly instead of applauding him. It might not even be a bad idea for us to get up and walk out of the room. Heck if people wanted to start chanting “fire Benford” I would join in with them. I believe that one reason why the athletic department hasn’t gotten rid of Benford is because they’re not feeling any real heat from the fan base over this decision. A lot of other fan bases of other schools would have voiced their disappointment and displeasure in some way at a game or an athletic event a long time ago.

The AD has gotten plenty of heat. Why do you think RV watched from the tunnels? I know of two longtime season ticket holders who gave up at the midway point of the season and sent their remaining tickets directly to him. Booing a coach or turning your back will not force anybody's hand to make a change.

greenminer · April 11, 2013

Is there any example in NCAA sports (recent) history that proves boycotting your AD (attendance and donations) accomplishes anything?

I would think a point would be made, but if finances are what the AD needs to make change...how does draining them of that resource help?

UNTFan23 · April 11, 2013

I almost hate to say this but perhaps at the coaches caravans we should all boo Coach Benford mercilessly instead of applauding him. It might not even be a bad idea for us to get up and walk out of the room. Heck if people wanted to start chanting “fire Benford” I would join in with them. I believe that one reason why the athletic department hasn’t gotten rid of Benford is because they’re not feeling any real heat from the fan base over this decision. A lot of other fan bases of other schools would have voiced their disappointment and displeasure in some way at a game or an athletic event a long time ago.

Boo? No but it sure will be hard to clap when he is announced.

adman · April 11, 2013

For the record... I think booing him period is a very bad and tacky idea.

Agree.

TheTastyGreek · April 11, 2013

Is there any example in NCAA sports (recent) history that proves boycotting your AD (attendance and donations) accomplishes anything?

Ken McDonald, Western Kentucky.

Attendance collapse, club member complaints, and reduced giving led to him being forced to take a pay cut in order to come back for an additional season. They spent a lot of effort selling the concept of a "Team Reset", and McDonald basically had to do a public "I Suck" tour in the media, where everyone knew and wrote about the fact that he had agreed to a $100,000 pay cut to avoid getting canned in the offseason.

Then, halfway through the next season, they fired him outright anyway.

And that was a guy who had won an NCAA tournament game (a Gonzaga buzzer beater away from a Sweet Sixteen).

NT03 · April 11, 2013

Dartmouth fired their coach a few years ago after players threatened a boycott : http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/dartmouth-fires-coach-following-boycott-threat-010810

Edited April 11, 2013 by NT03

TheTastyGreek · April 11, 2013

Dartmouth fired their coach a few years ago after players threatened a boycott : http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/dartmouth-fires-coach-following-boycott-threat-010810

And I think something like a boycott or player mutiny was the final straw and led to Matt Kilcullen (WKU's public beta test of Ken McDonald) getting fired by the Hilltoppers.

Say what you will about their goat tendencies... Those people know how to protect and maintain their basketball program. More concerned with saving the program than saving face.

UNT90 · April 11, 2013

Not to be smart or disrespectful, but what did you expect Dan Johnston to say? The Athletic Department doesn't think like fans, and they are not going to publicly disparage a coach.

You are right. They absolutely should do nothing but back Benford as long as he is the coach. What else would they do?

Again, I don't want to take up the ADs time with a letter or an email. They have more important things to do. Likewise, I'm not going to ass-whip them (or any other UNT fan) with my opinion in any face to face conversation. If they ask, I'll tell them, but that's not going to happen.

They know there is huge distrust and anger by the fan base directed at this basketball coach. They know he did a terrible job his 1st year. They have decided to roll the dice for another year. No letter, email, or call is going to change that.

There should be consequences for this gamble if it fails, but there won't be. And nothing we do as fans will change that.

UNT90 · April 11, 2013

Is there any example in NCAA sports (recent) history that proves boycotting your AD (attendance and donations) accomplishes anything?

I would think a point would be made, but if finances are what the AD needs to make change...how does draining them of that resource help?

No need to boycott. Plenty of people will make the decision that of UNT doesn't care about its basketball team, why should they? Attendance will drop dramatically and the AD will know(which they already do) that this hire has cost them.

The problem is the university administration really doesn't care, so nothing will be done.

Aquila_Viridis · April 11, 2013

The athletic department does not run the show, and 90 is right, the ones who do run it, do not care whether the teams win or lose.

Greendylan · April 11, 2013

Is there any example in NCAA sports (recent) history that proves boycotting your AD (attendance and donations) accomplishes anything?

I would think a point would be made, but if finances are what the AD needs to make change...how does draining them of that resource help?

It's a simple math problem. If an athletic department stands to take a bigger financial hit by retaining a coach than by buying him out, then the bottom line may force their hand.