Mo-Valley Ex's

Mo Green · April 9, 2013

Do you ever wonder why schools that we were playing in the 70's have taken different routes to success. Each one has had AD's that could face problems and find an answer.They had a plan for the future (ie. goals).

Look where we are currently. Being invited to a new conference (sbII), because we are near Dallas saving our bacon because the conference home base is there and there were no other teams that didn't have a dancing partner around!

GrandGreen · April 9, 2013

Do you ever wonder why schools that we were playing in the 70's have taken different routes to success. Each one has had AD's that could face problems and find an answer.They had a plan for the future (ie. goals).

Look where we are currently. Being invited to a new conference (sbII), because we are near Dallas saving our bacon because the conference home base is there and there were no other teams that didn't have a dancing partner around!

It is tough when NT's athletic program was above Tulsa, Cincy, Louisville, Memphis, Wichita State, and many more newbies that have passed NT by in the last four decades. Over that period of time, however each school has had a number of AD's and adminstrations to lead them forward.

I am certainly not happy were the athletic program is right now unlike some who compare it with NT's rather dismal athletic history, and think NT is progressing. NT's facilites are now a positive for a lower tier program, but the football program is struggling and MBB has crashed and burned.

IMO, next year should determine the faith of RV as well as McCarney and Benford.

foutsrouts · April 9, 2013

It is tough when NT's athletic program was above Tulsa, Cincy, Louisville, Memphis, Wichita State, and many more newbies that have passed NT by in the last four decades. Over that period of time, however each school has had a number of AD's and adminstrations to lead them forward.

I am certainly not happy were the athletic program is right now unlike some who compare it with NT's rather dismal athletic history, and think NT is progressing. NT's facilites are now a positive for a lower tier program, but the football program is struggling and MBB has crashed and burned.

IMO, next year should determine the faith of RV as well as McCarney and Benford.

At this point, I don't care if they're devil worshipers as long as they can find a way to win.

emmitt01 · April 9, 2013

It is tough when NT's athletic program was above Tulsa, Cincy, Louisville, Memphis, Wichita State, and many more newbies that have passed NT by in the last four decades. Over that period of time, however each school has had a number of AD's and adminstrations to lead them forward.

I am certainly not happy were the athletic program is right now unlike some who compare it with NT's rather dismal athletic history, and think NT is progressing. NT's facilites are now a positive for a lower tier program, but the football program is struggling and MBB has crashed and burned.

IMO, next year should determine the faith of RV as well as McCarney and Benford.

There will be no changes. The BOR sees the same incremental improvements that you and I do and, since we are only committed to paying lip service to big time athletics, these improvements will be pointed to as progress enough to maintain the status quo.

Don't believe me? Ask someone from the BOR how much of the Goldfield million we have taken in. Or, how much of that 22 million that our Asian benefactor pledged we have seen. Ask anyone from the AD where we stand, in a brand new stadium, as far as season ticket sales. Ask what the "goal" is for this season.

You can be either outrageously successful and secretive about your methods, or you can be mediocre and be transparent to try to get people on board and fired up...you can't have it both ways. We still think we can...and we still get the same results.

Mo Green · April 9, 2013

It is tough when NT's athletic program was above Tulsa, Cincy, Louisville, Memphis, Wichita State, and many more newbies that have passed NT by in the last four decades. Over that period of time, however each school has had a number of AD's and adminstrations to lead them forward.

I am certainly not happy were the athletic program is right now unlike some who compare it with NT's rather dismal athletic history, and think NT is progressing. NT's facilites are now a positive for a lower tier program, but the football program is struggling and MBB has crashed and burned.

IMO, next year should determine the faith of RV as well as McCarney and Benford.

Yea, we will wait for the ad's 14th year to judge him. Sure we are not rushing things?

By the way, Lane mentioned that we were stuck in the 70's when he got here (during a meeting). For those who say that the ath dept has done so much for athletics- why does athletic dept become so concerned with action when we have started a CAPITAL CAMPAIGN if he was so effective in the past? Why did the ath dept principal fund raiser, cooper jones, leave after receiving athletic fund raising goals? Why did GB plan to fire ath dept personnel prior to her leaving? Why did the presenter of the New football stadium presentations to the studients look like Dean Warren Burgen (CAS) not rv?

letsgiveacheer · April 9, 2013

It is difficult to see these programs pull away from North Texas in a big way. Many threads ago, somone asked the question "what was Noth Texas' greatest football victory of all time?" At least one person replied it was our bowl victory over Cincinatti.

Shoot, we used to whip Cincinatti like a step child during our MVC days. I cringe when I see that pinhead Lee Corso talk badly about the current UNT football teams. When he was coach at Louisville, he couldn't put anything together against us many years.

Of course I am talking about football here but in MVC basketball, we were at least competitive against these great teams.

With all the emphasis and money we have put in athletics, we ought to be doing better. Not just in football and basketall, but across the board.

TheTastyGreek · April 9, 2013

Do you ever wonder why schools that we were playing in the 70's have taken different routes to success. Each one has had AD's that could face problems and find an answer.They had a plan for the future (ie. goals).
Look where we are currently. Being invited to a new conference (sbII), because we are near Dallas saving our bacon because the conference home base is there and there were no other teams that didn't have a dancing partner around!

Most of them were already a lot more successful than we were then, too.

Wichita State made the Final Four and Elite Eight (twice) back when we were in the MVC. And I bet even Dodge could have beaten the crap out of their football team when he was here.

Memphis made it to the championship (among 5 other appearances).

Louisville made 3 Final Fours while we were in the MVC. 8 Sweet Sixteens before we left in 1975, 9 total appearances.

Cincinnati won the NCAA tournament twice and lost in the championship game once during the time we were in the MVC with them. 5 Final Fours, 8 total appearances.

Not a defense of the program, but just pointing out that they haven't passed us by if they were already past us back then. They were already successful far beyond anything we've done then or now before we parted company with them.

untjim1995 · April 9, 2013

Most of them were already a lot more successful than we were then, too.

Wichita State made the Final Four and Elite Eight (twice) back when we were in the MVC. And I bet even Dodge could have beaten the crap out of their football team when he was here.

Memphis made it to the championship (among 5 other appearances).

Louisville made 3 Final Fours while we were in the MVC. 8 Sweet Sixteens before we left in 1975, 9 total appearances.

Cincinnati won the NCAA tournament twice and lost in the championship game once during the time we were in the MVC with them. 5 Final Fours, 8 total appearances.

Not a defense of the program, but just pointing out that they haven't passed us by if they were already past us back then. They were already successful far beyond anything we've done then or now before we parted company with them.

Exactly--we never won the MVC so we never got into the big tournament, but also never made the NIT, in the 60s or early 70s, either. All of those MVC teams back then decided basketball was going to be their lead dog in the athletic department. North Texas State, being in Texas, where football is king, wouldn't make that same decision.

GrandGreen · April 9, 2013

Most of them were already a lot more successful than we were then, too.

Wichita State made the Final Four and Elite Eight (twice) back when we were in the MVC. And I bet even Dodge could have beaten the crap out of their football team when he was here.

Memphis made it to the championship (among 5 other appearances).

Louisville made 3 Final Fours while we were in the MVC. 8 Sweet Sixteens before we left in 1975, 9 total appearances.

Cincinnati won the NCAA tournament twice and lost in the championship game once during the time we were in the MVC with them. 5 Final Fours, 8 total appearances.

Not a defense of the program, but just pointing out that they haven't passed us by if they were already past us back then. They were already successful far beyond anything we've done then or now before we parted company with them.

In basketball, they were ahead but in general not any other sport. Memphis came on in football toward the end, but NT was consistently better than the others until 1971 when NT football crashed falling victim to reduced spending and losing recruiting advantages it had with Blacks and Jucos. The final straw was a Rust class of mainly jucos who were nearly all declared ineligible because of a rule change. This class included if I remember correctly a handful of JUCO All Americans, most of which never saw the field.

Edited April 9, 2013 by GrandGreen

Mo Green · April 11, 2013

Tastygreek is right on...the teams I mentioned were successful & didn't distroy basketball to elevate any of their athletic programs (responsibility). Unlike NT (rv especially) where year in & year out we wonder what the direction our men's (athletic) programs are headed. This isn't happening with successful programs I mentioned above. All those fans who have given up & left did so since no one in the athletic dept seemed to care about fans or teams records or even hires that they made because of a lack of responsibility in that dept & school administration.

If the ad's office was responsibile, we would have been good in FB & BB with larger attendance the last several years. Where are we?

Reading all these blogs I wonder if all these same people have called or written Lane or even Stan Walker in development?

O, by the way, development has taken over athletic responsibility's fund raising with Regie & even the alumni assn. Does anyone on this board wonder why?

It's sad to think about all the praises for our loaded men's bb program last summer to what is being said now.

It's not all the bb coaches problem because of our current position.He just wanted a head coaching job. He didn't hire himself to this job with no goals. Who did?

How do you answer this question- what is your flagship sport? I laugh & tell them the "Green Brigade".

untjim1995 · April 11, 2013

Tastygreek is right on...the teams I mentioned were successful & didn't distroy basketball to elevate any of their athletic programs (responsibility). Unlike NT (rv especially) where year in & year out we wonder what the direction our men's (athletic) programs are headed. This isn't happening with successful programs I mentioned above. All those fans who have given up & left did so since no one in the athletic dept seemed to care about fans or teams records or even hires that they made because of a lack of responsibility in that dept & school administration.

If the ad's office was responsibile, we would have been good in FB & BB with larger attendance the last several years. Where are we?

Reading all these blogs I wonder if all these same people have called or written Lane or even Stan Walker in development?

O, by the way, development has taken over athletic responsibility's fund raising with Regie & even the alumni assn. Does anyone on this board wonder why?

It's sad to think about all the praises for our loaded men's bb program last summer to what is being said now.

It's not all the bb coaches problem because of our current position.He just wanted a head coaching job. He didn't hire himself to this job with no goals. Who did?

How do you answer this question- what is your flagship sport? I laugh & tell them the "Green Brigade".

The folks in Denton and at UNT are just fine with this...

greenjoe · April 11, 2013

Knowing Hayden Fry has God-like status around here, I'm probably taking my life in my hands.

One only wonders where North Texas would be today had we stayed in the MVC. Likely we would have been a charter member of Conference USA. The hope of becoming an independent holding out for a bid into the now-defunct SWC never panned out. Would the SWC still have folded ? Would Houston, Rice, and Southern Meth still have joined CUSA ? Instead of being the new guys in CUSA, we would have been the old line CUSA school.

Hinesight being 20/20 and all.

GO MEAN GREEN

foutsrouts · April 11, 2013

Knowing Hayden Fry has God-like status around here, I'm probably taking my life in my hands.

One only wonders where North Texas would be today had we stayed in the MVC. Likely we would have been a charter member of Conference USA. The hope of becoming an independent holding out for a bid into the now-defunct SWC never panned out. Would the SWC still have folded ? Would Houston, Rice, and Southern Meth still have joined CUSA ? Instead of being the new guys in CUSA, we would have been the old line CUSA school.

Hinesight being 20/20 and all.

GO MEAN GREEN

Interesting thoughts. This MVC all-time team could compete with anyone's.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ac-7189260

GrandGreen · April 11, 2013

Knowing Hayden Fry has God-like status around here, I'm probably taking my life in my hands.

One only wonders where North Texas would be today had we stayed in the MVC. Likely we would have been a charter member of Conference USA. The hope of becoming an independent holding out for a bid into the now-defunct SWC never panned out. Would the SWC still have folded ? Would Houston, Rice, and Southern Meth still have joined CUSA ? Instead of being the new guys in CUSA, we would have been the old line CUSA school.

Hinesight being 20/20 and all.

GO MEAN GREEN

The original football schools in the Metro were Ga. Tech, Cincy, Louisville, Memphis and Tulane which started in 1975. About the same time NT went independent. I don't think NT was asked to join or know if NT pursued membership. There is no question that the SWC looked many times better than the Metro at that time.

As you say, hind sight would have been great; but again I don't think the Metro was even an option for NT.

The problem for NT was not Fry. The problem was an administration that wound not or could not fund athletics above a bare subsistance level. That is why NT ended up in 1aa and only a fringe factor in football since Fry left.

The decision to leave the MVC did not hurt NT football. What killed NT football for decades was a bare minimun approach to athletic funding that prevailed until Hurley retired.

The decision to leave MVC did IMO have a lot to do with the rapid decline of NT basketball after the players recruited while in the MVC finished.