SMU must win now – or get left out in the cold

Harry · April 7, 2013

UNIVERSITY PARK — The Big East represented SMU’s return ticket to the big time.

It had been a long and arduous climb back for the Mustangs since the NCAA shut down the football program with its death penalty in 1987. Then came SMU’s departure from the Southwest Conference in 1996 and low-mileage stops in the Western Athletic Conference and Conference USA.

But with the announcement in December 2011 that SMU had accepted an invitation to join the Big East, the Mustangs were back on the map. Football rivalries loomed with rising powers Boise State and Louisville plus basketball rivalries with the likes of Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette and Notre Dame.

An automatic conference bid in the BCS, a league basketball tournament in New York City and millions of dollars in television revenue figured to enhance SMU’s marriage to the Big East.

June Jones had taken the football team to three consecutive bowls, and the Mustangs hired legendary coach Larry Brown to resurrect the basketball program. SMU envisioned a glorious, uplifting future when the school hired Rick Hart as athletic director last July.

Then came the nightmare.

Read more: http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/columnists/rick-gosselin/20130401-gosselin-as-former-big-east-withers-smu-must-win-now--or-get-left-out-in-the-cold.ece

DeepGreen · April 7, 2013

"Blue-chip athletes win games, and successful teams fill stadiums."

UNT90 · April 7, 2013

"Blue-chip athletes win games, and successful teams fill stadiums."

We seem to be going the opposite direction with the whole successful team thing.

UNTLifer · April 8, 2013

We seem to be going the opposite direction with the whole successful team thing.

What an ass whippin'. Why don't you hitch your wagon to some other team if all you can do is bitch about our teams, our coaches, our athletic department, the administration, the BOR, our conference affiliation, etc..?

UNT90 · April 8, 2013

What an ass whippin'. Why don't you hitch your wagon to some other team if all you can do is bitch about our teams, our coaches, our athletic department, the administration, the BOR, our conference affiliation, etc..?

Right, because just sitting back and ignoring lack of achievement, and in one of our program's case, it's dismantleing, is soooooo much better.

PlummMeanGreen · April 8, 2013

This SMU football player sorta's sizes up the Mustang football program in his first 2 paragraphs (in living color)) in his letter to the SMU student newspaper.

Personally, I don't think winning and going to bowl games at SMU in their latest new conference will make one hill of beans difference. I think for North Texas....it will make a difference, but the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step---so dammit, lets start a multi-year winning and bowl attendance streak beginning this Fall, right?

"College football is a chance for a school to unite around its team and build spirit and camaraderie between its students, faculty and athletes. Most collegiate football schools get this, where students camp outside ticket offices or fans drive hours to cheer on their team.

Most schools thrive in this, except SMU. After having a dream come true with the invitation to walk-on to the football team in fall 2010, I believed I'd be able to be a part of watching SMU rise from the ashes and become a powerhouse. After back to back bowl trips and a 5-1 season record including a win over archrival TCU, I thought surely the days of empty stadiums and an uncaring student body were over. Boy was I wrong."

http://www.smudailycampus.com/football-player-asks-where-s-the-spirit-1.2653972#.UWI-AKKG1db

UNTLifer · April 8, 2013

No but repeating the same thing over and over is just tiresome. Go beat on RV's door or go to the next board meeting and rant and rave, anything but hijacking every thread on here. You even chose to hijack a thread about a young man that is a potential recruit. Ever stop to think that maybe he or his parents stopped by to see what we had to say? I am sure they were reassured by reading your rant.

UNT90 · April 8, 2013

Criticism

No but repeating the same thing over and over is just tiresome. Go beat on RV's door or go to the next board meeting and rant and rave, anything but hijacking every thread on here. You even chose to hijack a thread about a young man that is a potential recruit. Ever stop to think that maybe he or his parents stopped by to see what we had to say? I am sure they were reassured by reading your rant.

So you are sayiong that this board is all powerful with recruits but no-powerful with anyone at UNT?

Kinda conflicting statements, don't you think?

And I don't have the financial clout to have audience with anyone at UNT. I also don't believe in taking up their valuable time by telling them something they already know. It's a public job. With that comes public criticism.

UNTnewbie · April 8, 2013

...So you are sayiong that this board is all powerful with recruits but no-powerful with anyone at UNT?...

I wouldn't say all powerful but a message board can sure swing the pendulum for a recruit with options. I don't know of a single recruit, or a recruits parents, that haven't checked out a schools message board before making a decision that will impact their lives over the next 4-5 years or longer. The frequency of your negative posts do much more harm than good in my opinion. When I hear someone griping as much as you do, I pretty much write that persons opinions off as worthless but not everyone thinks that way.

UNTLifer · April 8, 2013

So you are sayiong that this board is all powerful with recruits but no-powerful with anyone at UNT?

Kinda conflicting statements, don't you think?

And I don't have the financial clout to have audience with anyone at UNT. I also don't believe in taking up their valuable time by telling them something they already know. It's a public job. With that comes public criticism.

I will respond to each statement:

1. Yes, it is important with an 18 year old. He likes to see his name written up, check with the school's website or fanboard to get reaction from his visit, etc... He's 18. I think the AD staff keeps an eye on the board, but it is not near as important to them as it is to an 18 year old hoping to go somewhere he is wanted.

2. Not even close to being a conflicting statement. I would consider the question inane at best.

3. So you "don't believe in taking up their valuable time" but have no problem taking up our's with the constant bombardment of negativety? Interesting train of thought considering they are the one's that have the ability to facilitate change.

UNTnewbie hits the nail on the head.

untjim1995 · April 8, 2013

I've got bad news for SMU--its pretty much over. I can't see any non-AQ moving upward to a Super Conference, unless the Pac-12 takes UNLV and Boise State, which I strongly doubt will ever happen. TCU only got into the Big XII because the Aggies left and most of the teams in the conference (anyone not named Texas) wanted a team in DFW to play, so Texas basically got talked into it. That won't happen for SMU, just like it won't happen for us or any of these non-AQs. UConn, Cincy, and South Florida get picked up by the ACC if they have more defections to the B1G or the SEC, but that's about it. Those are big public schools that have been AQ and have gone to BCS bowl games and represent big markets, while also getting strong attendance. Most non-AQs don't come close to this.

The Big XII or ACC will cease to exist in the way we know of them within 5 years. It could be even less than that, like within two years if the ACC's exit fee gets dropped substantially, like the Big XII's did. Once that happens, the ACC is going to get jacked up. The B1G wants at least two more teams, probably some combination of UVa, UNC, Duke, and Ga Tech. The SEC wants Virginia Tech and NC State, since they don't have teams in those markets. Maybe that gets Miami, FSU, Clemson and Louisville to the Big XII, but it might not--if the ACC lost four schools, I could see them replacing them with UConn, Cincy, and USF, as well as a team like Memphis. From what I have read, no one has any interest in joining a league with Texas having the LHN, nor does anyone have much interest in signing on to that GOR that last for the next 12 years.

The thing here, though, as we go back to the original topic, is that a school like SMU has almost no chance of ever being a major player again in the NCAA as it stands now. They are too small and have no decent following. Same with all of the private non-AQs and the same with almost every single public non-AQ not in the MWC. And the powers that be in the NCAA have made it clear that the MWC won't be included in the AQ future, even when they deserved way more than the old Big East did. For schools like SMU, their time has passed. Its fine that they are in a league where they can compete, but they don't draw flies anymore since they don't get the SWC powers on the schedule every year. The Death Penalty killed them, in that sense. And it revived TCU--because when SMU came back, they were so bad for so long that TCU eventually took advantage of their situation in the Metroplex. And now TCU has what SMU had--the prominent spot in the Metroplex hierarchy.

As for schools now in MWC, AAC, CUSA, MAC, and the SBC, I think its pretty clear that the sun set on almost all of us ever being included at the big boys table. We all need the money from playing big name programs on the road in OOC. The inherit advantages of being in an AQ league are never going away, instead they will continue to get deeper. Except for a very select few, this "second tier" is our new home until the next definition of FBS gets remade. Then, you will see that group become the equivalent of the old i-aa again. Can't wait to see teams like SMU have to deal with that. We are used to it here in Denton, but a team like SMU won't handle that well. If they cannot draw flies now, whats it going to look like when they are playing Tulane at Ford Stadium as a FCS-type team? Wouldn't surprise me at all to see teams like SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, and Rice just quit football rather than acceptin that fate. They're pride is too high for that kind of slapdown.

UNT90 · April 8, 2013

I will respond to each statement:

1. Yes, it is important with an 18 year old. He likes to see his name written up, check with the school's website or fanboard to get reaction from his visit, etc... He's 18. I think the AD staff keeps an eye on the board, but it is not near as important to them as it is to an 18 year old hoping to go somewhere he is wanted.

2. Not even close to being a conflicting statement. I would consider the question inane at best.

3. So you "don't believe in taking up their valuable time" but have no problem taking up our's with the constant bombardment of negativety? Interesting train of thought considering they are the one's that have the ability to facilitate change.

UNTnewbie hits the nail on the head.

In not taking up your time, you are. Don't read it if you don't want to. Life is about choices.

We all like to think we are more important than we really are. Recruits pay far more attention to conference affiliation, wins, the actual campus, and programs offered in their degree field than a message board.

If this was true, OU and Texas would NEVER land recruits. Why don't you check out UT's board right now. Not a lot of happy people.

What you are really saying is that YOU don't want to hear it and want to keep pretending everything is hunky Dory with our athletics program.

Again, the solution is simple. Hit the ignore button.

greenminer · April 8, 2013

In not taking up your time, you are. Don't read it if you don't want to. Life is about choices.
What you are really saying is that YOU don't want to hear it and want to keep pretending everything is hunky Dory with our athletics program.
Again, the solution is simple. Hit the ignore button.

You sure have a lot of absolutes in your posts.

Cougar King · April 8, 2013

I've got bad news for SMU--its pretty much over. I can't see any non-AQ moving upward to a Super Conference, unless the Pac-12 takes UNLV and Boise State, which I strongly doubt will ever happen. TCU only got into the Big XII because the Aggies left and most of the teams in the conference (anyone not named Texas) wanted a team in DFW to play, so Texas basically got talked into it. That won't happen for SMU, just like it won't happen for us or any of these non-AQs. UConn, Cincy, and South Florida get picked up by the ACC if they have more defections to the B1G or the SEC, but that's about it. Those are big public schools that have been AQ and have gone to BCS bowl games and represent big markets, while also getting strong attendance. Most non-AQs don't come close to this.

The Big XII or ACC will cease to exist in the way we know of them within 5 years. It could be even less than that, like within two years if the ACC's exit fee gets dropped substantially, like the Big XII's did. Once that happens, the ACC is going to get jacked up. The B1G wants at least two more teams, probably some combination of UVa, UNC, Duke, and Ga Tech. The SEC wants Virginia Tech and NC State, since they don't have teams in those markets. Maybe that gets Miami, FSU, Clemson and Louisville to the Big XII, but it might not--if the ACC lost four schools, I could see them replacing them with UConn, Cincy, and USF, as well as a team like Memphis. From what I have read, no one has any interest in joining a league with Texas having the LHN, nor does anyone have much interest in signing on to that GOR that last for the next 12 years.

The thing here, though, as we go back to the original topic, is that a school like SMU has almost no chance of ever being a major player again in the NCAA as it stands now. They are too small and have no decent following. Same with all of the private non-AQs and the same with almost every single public non-AQ not in the MWC. And the powers that be in the NCAA have made it clear that the MWC won't be included in the AQ future, even when they deserved way more than the old Big East did. For schools like SMU, their time has passed. Its fine that they are in a league where they can compete, but they don't draw flies anymore since they don't get the SWC powers on the schedule every year. The Death Penalty killed them, in that sense. And it revived TCU--because when SMU came back, they were so bad for so long that TCU eventually took advantage of their situation in the Metroplex. And now TCU has what SMU had--the prominent spot in the Metroplex hierarchy.

As for schools now in MWC, AAC, CUSA, MAC, and the SBC, I think its pretty clear that the sun set on almost all of us ever being included at the big boys table. We all need the money from playing big name programs on the road in OOC. The inherit advantages of being in an AQ league are never going away, instead they will continue to get deeper. Except for a very select few, this "second tier" is our new home until the next definition of FBS gets remade. Then, you will see that group become the equivalent of the old i-aa again. Can't wait to see teams like SMU have to deal with that. We are used to it here in Denton, but a team like SMU won't handle that well. If they cannot draw flies now, whats it going to look like when they are playing Tulane at Ford Stadium as a FCS-type team? Wouldn't surprise me at all to see teams like SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, and Rice just quit football rather than acceptin that fate. They're pride is too high for that kind of slapdown.

Agree with this for the most part. Other than Boise, USF/UCF, Cincy, UConn, BYU, Temple or UH. I don't see any Go5 schools getting a call up to the current P5.

Wag Tag · April 8, 2013

"Blue-chip athletes win games, and successful teams fill stadiums."

Wrong , filling stadiums is still a challenge for SMU!

untjim1995 · April 9, 2013

Agree with this for the most part. Other than Boise, USF/UCF, Cincy, UConn, BYU, Temple or UH. I don't see any Go5 schools getting a call up to the current P5.

UConn, Cincinnati, and USF will get ACC bids in the future. I see one of the other eastern schools also getting an ACC bid one day, either UCF or Memphis. . The only Pac-12 possible additions out west are Boise State and UNLV, but its extremely doubtful. If BYU couldn't get into the Pac, I don't see either of these two academic lightweights getting included.

FroggyStyle · April 9, 2013

UConn, Cincinnati, and USF will get ACC bids in the future. I see one of the other eastern schools also getting an ACC bid one day, either UCF or Memphis. . The only Pac-12 possible additions out west are Boise State and UNLV, but its extremely doubtful. If BYU couldn't get into the Pac, I don't see either of these two academic lightweights getting included.

BYU isn't in the PAC for religous reasons, their academics are perfectly fine. Boise and UNLV won't get in due to academics. USF and UCF are tossups for the ACC but seeing that Temple and UH are thought of as more valuable than the Florida schools and Memphis according to their media contract and ESPN placing UH as the 2nd most valuable non-AQ school (BYU is #1), it wouldn't surprise me to see them taken by a gutted ACC or something. That being said, UH's geography would put them on an island in that scenario.

I could see UH potentially go to the PAC IF and ONLY IF the Pac can't get ahold of UT/Tech/OU/OSU and seeing that UT does not want to give up the LHN, then rthat would leave the door potentially open for the Cougars.

SMU won't be going anywhere. They are trying to ride UH's coattails but it's only a matter of time before they get cut loose. Their support is as bad as UNT's the only reason they've gotten as far as they have is because of recent winning and $$$.

UNTLifer · April 10, 2013

SMU's fan support is way below our's.

untjim1995 · April 10, 2013

SMU's fan support is way below our's.

SMU's name carries a lot of cache outside of the state, especially with the network in Bristol. They see SMU's history, June Jones' success of bringing them up from the ashes finally after the Death Penalty, and, most ironically, the Death penalty itself has amazingly been morphed into almost a sympathetic reason for others (networks, conferences, other institutions) to want to see them do well. And of course, they see a team in the heart of Dallas, who does get much better publicity from its local media outlets than its attendance deserves. When we compare it to our situation, we just don't have their advantages (money, history, and media). Our attendance may indeed be better than theirs by a little bit, but other universities and media members look at our enrollment and attendance and history over the last 30 years and realize that we aren't really giving these better-known schools many reasons to want to be associated with us in a conference.

In the end, though, it won't matter for either SMU or us. Major college football is dependent upon so many elements that have to be there--conference affiliation, statewide support, big financial support, larger enrollments, strong attendance, and of course, TV appeal. You have to have all of them. Eventually, this will catch up with the TCUs and Baylors of the world. If you don't have all of these working for you, then your future in FBS, once it gets redefined, will be on the outside looking in. SMU cannot do anything about this, just like we can't. And depending on how things shuffle out, TCU and Baylor probably won't be able to do much about it, either. Houston might have a slight chance, but I just don't see them being included in any major 64-80 team FBS. The best teams in CUSA over the last few years have been UCF, UH, Tulsa, and SMU and we haven't seen one AQ league even come after them. Once they got in the Big East, that league saw people leave as fast as possible and their AQ got removed. Its just how it is. The Big 5 conferences and ND control it all--that's 65 teams, with BYU being indy and supposedly being included in this, too, makes it 66. Depending on which conference survives out of the ACC or Big XII (24 teams), it isn't hard to see where teams like TCU, Baylor, Wake Forest, and Duke could get left behind, although Duke will probably make it because of UNC and its basketball program. I foresee 4 mega conferences with 16-20 teams in each league. Some may stick to 16 (like the Pac), while others could get to 20 (ACC/Big XII survivors) Ironically, there are MWC teams that have a better chance of being included in a move upward than SMU, TCU, Baylor, etc...Boise State will get included somewhere if they keep winning at the level they have been, since they are a national name. A school like UNLV has that chance, too. Eventually ND and BYU are going to get gobbled up by someone. But the rest of us will settle back into a new 1-aa type situation again. And how that will get aligned, conference-wise, or championship-wise, will go a long way in determining if we will finally get into a conference or division setup that would allow us and the former SWC non-power teams to play each other annually. Some might continue playing, but I suspect that a school like SMU would just drop football before it got to this point. Just my $02...

UNTLifer · April 10, 2013

SMU won't be going anywhere. They are trying to ride UH's coattails but it's only a matter of time before they get cut loose. Their support is as bad as UNT's the only reason they've gotten as far as they have is because of recent winning and $$$.

Was responding to this comment.

untjim1995 · April 10, 2013

Was responding to this comment.

NO problem--I just wanted to weigh in as to why SMU still gets more attention than they truly deserve...

DallasGreen · April 10, 2013

The 2014 game with SMU that starts the series is extremely scary. Lose big time in this game and this ship has most all jumping overboard. The DFW press and media will write us off as a complete failure. Our coaches generally treat this as just another ho hum non- conference game. If they do that this time they will find just how empty that Apogee can be. If we don't treat this as a BIG game I' d take a buy out now before we are completely and utterly embarrassed.

untjim1995 · April 11, 2013

The 2014 game with SMU that starts the series is extremely scary. Lose big time in this game and this ship has most all jumping overboard. The DFW press and media will write us off as a complete failure. Our coaches generally treat this as just another ho hum non- conference game. If they do that this time they will find just how empty that Apogee can be. If we don't treat this as a BIG game I' d take a buy out now before we are completely and utterly embarrassed.

OK--we played SMU in 2006 and 2007. In 2006, we killed them at Fouts. The local media didn't write about us being as a complete success because we beat SMU at home. In fact, that win cost SMU a bowl game, even though we only won three games that year. In 2007, we lost to SMU in Dallas by a TD, IIRC. We weren't written off as a complete failure after that loss to SMU, even though both teams should have been. That was SMUs only win of the year and we won two games.

We will always treat this as a big game. You don't need to worry about that part. The only buyout that would occur here is if June Jones leaves SMU and they go back to losing, while we beat them in the first two games and are winning. That would cause the SMU cash to come to the rescue. However, if we lose to SMU in 2014, nobody is going to write us off then as a complete failure. They'll write that SMU got a nice Metroplex rivalry win. Maybe Vito will write a story that we are a complete failure, but not one word will be spoken about us being failure on even one sports outlet in DFW. That's part of the problem, no one even cares about us to talk about our lackluster performance. Even when we were winning the SBC titles, we almost always getting ho-hummed in the local media because we were basically only beating SBC teams.

DallasGreen · April 11, 2013

I've seen the time when we were on the 10 PM news at least twice a week, but we were competing with anyone who would schedule us including the metroplex privates. What I am saying is if we lose BIG now we look like we belong back in the SLC. Hell even there we competed better on much less money, talent, and facilities. I disagree and feelthat this game will not get the hype it deserves especially in little "d"

untjim1995 · April 11, 2013

I've seen the time when we were on the 10 PM news at least twice a week, but we were competing with anyone who would schedule us including the metroplex privates. What I am saying is if we lose BIG now we look like we belong back in the SLC. Hell even there we competed better on much less money, talent, and facilities. I disagree and feelthat this game will not get the hype it deserves especially in little "d"

I think we look like we belong back in the SLC to these people for a lot of reasons. Losing big time to SMU won't add anymore fuel to that fire. Losing games to outlets called Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, Florida International, and Louisiana-Monroe have done more damage on that front. Playing teams at home in Denton like Texas Southern and South Alabama make this SLC perception even more accepted. I'll say this--if we lose to UTSA this year, that will do it for me. I'll let everyone know that the SLC really should be our home if we cannot beat a startup program in its third year of existence.