Saturday morning scrimmage notes

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I'll give you the Meager for Vizza situation, but I remember the Vizza for Riley situation a little differently. Vizza = q-word. plain & simple.

Okay, but do you honestly think that Todd Dodge was not going to start Riley? People were clamoring for his inexperience then as much as they are clamoring for Berglund's inexperience now.

How many times in the past have we had the same head coach, offensive coordinator, and starting quarterback for three consecutives years? Maybe the Scotts - Hall and Davis?

[Mean Green 93-98]

I'm not saying anything, but I'm saying something. We have people so desparate to have football success that we might ignore signs. Charlie Weis - he might know something about quarterbacking. He might. Probably more than the JUCO coach. But, they have one thing in common: Berglund didn't win the starting job in either place, then jetted out of town.

At KU, he ditched town long before QB competition began. He didn't want to play for Charlie Weis after Turner Gill got fired, and knowing that Weis was bringing in Dayne Crist (5-star QB) was writing on the wall that he wouldn't get to compete for a starting job.

[Harry]

At KU, he ditched town long before QB competition began. He didn't want to play for Charlie Weis after Turner Gill got fired, and knowing that Weis was bringing in Dayne Crist (5-star QB) was writing on the wall that he wouldn't get to compete for a starting job.

Charlie Weiss didn't want the kid to leave for goodness sakes. He's been hurt - cut him some slack. He's as disappointed as anyone about the missed snaps.

[BillySee58]

Charlie Weiss didn't want the kid to leave for goodness sakes. He's been hurt - cut him some slack. He's as disappointed as anyone about the missed snaps.

This. He practiced one semester with Kansas spring 2011, when he should've been a second semester high school senior, and was doing good enough where he was expected to not redshirt his freshman year and either be Jordan Webb's backup or start. Then the legal trouble came in, followed by Gill getting fired.

People are acting like he is a bust already. He will get action the first half of the game against Idaho as long as he is healthy.

[meanrob]

Practicing isn't experience. Playing in games is experience. We all want to beat up KU because the kid didn't work out there. Then, the short stint at the JUCO where the coach said everyone has to compete.

I'm not saying anything, but I'm saying something. We have people so desparate to have football success that we might ignore signs. Charlie Weis - he might know something about quarterbacking. He might. Probably more than the JUCO coach. But, they have one thing in common: Berglund didn't win the starting job in either place, then jetted out of town.

It's not a stretch to say that I was not on board with Todd Dodge's "secret" recruiting of Derek Thompson...recruiting him so secretly that only Dodge and Eastern New Mexico knew about him Remember all that?

What has won me over with Derek is that he leads by example. He is a team guy. He has never had a dangerous receiving corp, yet he doesn't complain or make excuses. At the end of last season, he was down to throwing to a group of walk-ons.

He just works and works. Last year, they wanted him to put on more weight - he did it. This year they wanted him to lose weight - he did it. He went into the spring practice with everyone annointing this Berglund kid to be the starter.

Well, look...you have to earn the job. We are fortunate to have coaches who make kids compete. Anyone up for a repeat of Meager being screwed in favor of Vizza? Or, how about later with Vizza being screwed over in favor of the coach's son?

If Berglund wakes the F up, takes care of himself physically and mentally, learns the offense, and comes on like gangbusters in the fall and wins the job, so be it. So far, though, that hasn't been the story of his post-prep career.

Thompson does what is asked of him. He isn't showy. He's polite in interviews and doesn't cause waves. In my eyes, he's done far better than I ever thought he would, given how few schools were in on him. He's a worker. He's a team guy. He's got a lot of experience - real, game day experience - and that counts.

Brock Berglund will have to strap it on in the fall to beat out Derek Thompson. You might not like it, and you might cry, but that's the way it is.

[Fake Billy Tubbs Voice] Rock me. [/Fake Billy Tubbs Voice]

I could care less who the quarterback is, it could be Big Bird, but are you serious?

He's supposed to be a team player, he's supposed to do what the coaches ask of him, he's supposed to work hard, he's the starting quarterback for f's sake.

He's also a below average Sun Belt quarterback for a team that hasn't had a difference maker at quarterback since Mitch Maher. Even if you want to place that label on Scott Hall, and I don't, that was 10 years ago.

Wow, he's polite. Good for him. Right now this program doesn't need nice guys who throw at the feet of receivers or through the back of the end zone and certainly can't make plays with his feet. We need a difference maker at quarterback. If that is DT then great, but so far he has been below average. In the Sun Belt. Period.

Did you guys even watch what Ryan Aplin did to us the past few years? Derek Thompson isn't even in the same stratosphere as Aplin.

I can't believe we're talking about how nice our quarterback is. We're gonna suck forever.

Edited April 10, 2013 by meanrob

[meanrob]

By the way, I can't remember the kid's name but Harry hyped up the athletic quarterback we had in this past recruiting class.

Throw him into the mix. There have been numerous true freshman QBs the past few years. I think Utah State had one two years ago from Texas who did just fine.

I got Big Bird on speed dial if necessary, he's got two years of eligibility left.

[Harry]

By the way, I can't remember the kid's name but Harry hyped up the athletic quarterback we had in this past recruiting class.

Throw him into the mix. There have been numerous true freshman QBs the past few years. I think Utah State had one two years ago from Texas who did just fine.

I got Big Bird on speed dial if necessary, he's got two years of eligibility left.

Dajon Williams! I happen to think he's pretty good...raw but has some skills.

[greenit]

I would not put it past Mac to use the missed time by Berglund as an opportunity to apply some pressure to him by publicly promoting DT as 1 and McNulty as 2. This way, Mac is able to keep the two incumbents happy and light a fire under the challenger going into the fall. The challenge is keep everyone interested. Mac has to convince DT that he is still the man, that McNulty is able to move up to at least #2, and that Berglund is on the outside looking in to ensure that everyone is 100% committed over the summer and that they come in as hungry as possible in the fall. Hopefully Berglund (and McNulty) is mentally strong enough to rise to the challenge rather than shrink away from it.

If the positions were already set, there would be less motivation for improvement. It's not like these type of mind games are uncommon amongst coaches.

[Green P1]

Am I missing something? Is Brock not the newest guy on the block who's just getting over a hamstring injury? I've been saying for months that Mac wouldn't start Brock over the senior captain no matter what.... but I think everyone is reading a bit much into the 3rd string business.

[trey3white]

It does seem like that they are going to play the 1 and 3's against the 3 and 4's in the spring game so it might work out in Brock's favor

[UNTLifer]

I got Big Bird on speed dial if necessary, he's got two years of eligibility left.

Well, all I can say is this is one good reason for Romney not getting elected.

[untjim1995]

I could care less who the quarterback is, it could be Big Bird, but are you serious?

He's supposed to be a team player, he's supposed to do what the coaches ask of him, he's supposed to work hard, he's the starting quarterback for f's sake.

He's also a below average Sun Belt quarterback for a team that hasn't had a difference maker at quarterback since Mitch Maher. Even if you want to place that label on Scott Hall, and I don't, that was 10 years ago.

Wow, he's polite. Good for him. Right now this program doesn't need nice guys who throw at the feet of receivers or through the back of the end zone and certainly can't make plays with his feet. We need a difference maker at quarterback. If that is DT then great, but so far he has been below average. In the Sun Belt. Period.

Did you guys even watch what Ryan Aplin did to us the past few years? Derek Thompson isn't even in the same stratosphere as Aplin.

I can't believe we're talking about how nice our quarterback is. We're gonna suck forever.

This.

If we think that DT is fine and acceptable at QB because he's a nice kid and doesn't cause any trouble, we will win 3 games at the most this year. He doesn't have it. As meanrob mentioned, we have not seen stellar QB play here in a long time. Hall was a terrific bus driver, who I think could have been even better in a more open offense. Mitch Maher and Scott Davis were terrific QBs, but they had the misfortune of being here while we were at i-aa purgatory, so very few UNT fans know as much about them as they would today.

I think Vizza could've been a great QB here, but the team absolutely sucked, the OLine was a sieve, and the head coach was a joke. Add in the coach's son element behind you, Vizza did what so many others would have done in that absolutely miserable situation--he kwit (see what I did there). Was it right for him to do that? No, but its not like he was by himself in leaving the UNT dumpster fire to move on with his life. Vizza, in my opinion, was a bad fit for this place from the start. He was from an affluent school that probably had a better stadium and better support than UNT had. Just like all those guys from Southlake, Austin Westlake, Alamo Heights, The Woodlands, etc...they were not ready for the absolute culture shock that playing at UNT in Fouts against SBC teams was going to be. He probably should've gone to Nevada and played for Chris Ault, whom we beat out for Vizza.

Otherwise, looking back, I've seen Jason Mills, Jason Attaway, Richard Bridges, Andrew Smith (bus driver who could've been better for a lot of reasons), Daniel Meager, Matt Phillips, Woody Wilson (wrong QB for Dickey's offense), Riley Dodge, Gio Vizza, Nathan Tune, Derek Thompson, and a few snaps for McNulty. I'm sure I've missed some others on the list. That's your QB list from 1995 thru 2012. Take out Hall's time (and Andrew Smith, since he filled in when SH was hurt), you get a group of people that led us to a combined record of 41-121. That's a winning percentage of .253%. IS it all the QBs fault? Of course not--Vizza is the prime example of this point. But it is clear that other than line play on both sides of the ball, your QB play is the most important part of your teams' success or failure. We will never know if a QB like Meager could've been decent if he gotten the chance to hand off to Cobbs, Jamario, Galbreath, Wilburn, etc..behind those solid offensive lines that Dickey had. Maybe Hall would have been Meager-like without those running backs and the stout defense we had while playing against developing SBC teams in the early part of the decade. But one thing is certain--we haven't sucked forever, but if you look back at this program since 1970, its understandable as to why it feels like its been forever.

Edited April 10, 2013 by untjim1995

[NorthTexan95]

Two years ago DT looked like he might develop into something. He had a very good game at Troy and seemed headed in the right direction. Last year he really regressed. So I do have a little hope that DT can be much improved over last year but I not going to bet on it. I think it'll be like Mac's first year and DT will rotate a bit with McNulty or Berglund if DT doesn't completely lose the job.

[meanrob]

This.

If we think that DT is fine and acceptable at QB because he's a nice kid and doesn't cause any trouble, we will win 3 games at the most this year. He doesn't have it. As meanrob mentioned, we have not seen stellar QB play here in a long time. Hall was a terrific bus driver, who I think could have been even better in a more open offense. Mitch Maher and Scott Davis were terrific QBs, but they had the misfortune of being here while we were at i-aa purgatory, so very few UNT fans know as much about them as they would today.

I think Vizza could've been a great QB here, but the team absolutely sucked, the OLine was a sieve, and the head coach was a joke. Add in the coach's son element behind you, Vizza did what so many others would have done in that absolutely miserable situation--he kwit (see what I did there). Was it right for him to do that? No, but its not like he was by himself in leaving the UNT dumpster fire to move on with his life. Vizza, in my opinion, was a bad fit for this place from the start. He was from an affluent school that probably had a better stadium and better support than UNT had. Just like all those guys from Southlake, Austin Westlake, Alamo Heights, The Woodlands, etc...they were not ready for the absolute culture shock that playing at UNT in Fouts against SBC teams was going to be. He probably should've gone to Nevada and played for Chris Ault, whom we beat out for Vizza.

Otherwise, looking back, I've seen Jason Mills, Jason Attaway, Richard Bridges, Andrew Smith (bus driver who could've been better for a lot of reasons), Daniel Meager, Matt Phillips, Woody Wilson (wrong QB for Dickey's offense), Riley Dodge, Gio Vizza, Nathan Tune, Derek Thompson, and a few snaps for McNulty. I'm sure I've missed some others on the list. That's your QB list from 1995 thru 2012. Take out Hall's time (and Andrew Smith, since he filled in when SH was hurt), you get a group of people that led us to a combined record of 41-121. That's a winning percentage of .253%. IS it all the QBs fault? Of course not--Vizza is the prime example of this point. But it is clear that other than line play on both sides of the ball, your QB play is the most important part of your teams' success or failure. We will never know if a QB like Meager could've been decent if he gotten the chance to hand off to Cobbs, Jamario, Galbreath, Wilburn, etc..behind those solid offensive lines that Dickey had. Maybe Hall would have been Meager-like without those running backs and the stout defense we had while playing against developing SBC teams in the early part of the decade. But one thing is certain--we haven't sucked forever, but if you look back at this program since 1970, its understandable as to why it feels like its been forever.

Chase Corley, LaDarrin McLane, the guy currently doing time, (good gawd I'm getting depressed....)

[untjim1995]

Chase Corley, LaDarrin McLane, the guy currently doing time, (good gawd I'm getting depressed....)

I remember LaDarrin McLane for one thing only--the most depressing moment of my UNT fandom was watching him streak toward the winning TD in Lubbock only to see him caught from behind and fumble away the ball that cost us a victory over Tech. That would have been the fourth win in a row over Tech in Lubbock (1988, 1997, 1999). Never have I been more disappointed as a UNT football fan than at that very moment. I've been embarrassed too often to remember (Getting murdered by freaking Rice 77-20 was also a low point for shame), but nothing hurt like that donkey punch to the groin when he got caught and fumbled away the victory.

[JesseMartin]

I think you mean donkey "kick" to the groin...a donkey punch is something altogether different.