What should be a realistic goal 5 year goal for North Texas Athletics?

[GL2Greatness]

Well, as many of the more shall we say...ummm apologetic...amongst us will tell you, we are not other FBS programs. And they would be right. We exist in a major metropolitan area, have a very large student and alumni base to draw from...and yet still look to that next panacea to put us on the right track. It was getting out of 1AA. Then it was winning a conference title or making it to a bowl game. Then getting out of Fouts. Then getting out of the Sun Belt. Then....you get the point.

What we have never seen, though, is a straightforward "this is where we stand and this is where we want to go" message coming out of the offices on Bonnie Brae. I'm not talking about posting it on the athletics website or even sending out a group email (our preferred form or promotions right now). The "quarterly meeting" idea was ingenious...and then abandoned. If you invited just MGC members to a private meeting and told them "we currently have 6,000* season ticket holders, we want to reach 6,500 by the end of summer" or "attendance of 24,000* would allow us to get out of one of those Iowa games" then I think you'd see not only a stronger effort on the part of many to sell friends/family/strangers on tickets but you'd also see a lot greater faith from many of us. The President doesn't do the State of the Union because he needs an extra speaking engagement. Stock reports aren't sent out to share holders because companies enjoy paying postage.

As it stands every inquiry about where we stand in terms of ticket numbers, MGC membership or promotional plans are met with deflection. Why is that? If the numbers aren't impressive what will be accomplished by keeping them a guarded secret. If they ARE impressive even less will be accomplished by keeping that under wraps. I'm of the opinion that a sheltered, unquestioned mode of operations is what is desired...and more importantly, accepted.

*These are hypothetical numbers because, well, nobody knows the real ones

lets be realistic and honest here

what you are asking for does not come from "the offices on bonnie brae" it SHOULD come from the offices on Ave. E

lets look at the programs that others concern themselves with passing north Texas by and make masterful multi-font multi-color post about on a regular basis

TxState and UTSA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denise_Trauth

Denise Trauth President of TxState for soon to be 11 years....what is one of the major accomplishments listed...."The Drive" for athletics.....really that is a poor overall representation of her accomplishments since she was the one that pushed for the name change, got it approved quickly, and managed to not alienate the alumni....the Round Rock campus is listed, the engineering programs are not, becoming an emerging research university is not, the McCoy donation to the college of business is not listed along with several others, and the successful fundraising campaign is not listed

and here is the citation from Wiki

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4116-look-out-fbs-here-come-the-bobcats-and-the-runners

again wiki and bleacher report are both questionable sources at best for most things that need to be factual, but she was the one leading the charge.....she got the students excited for the move up and the fee increase, she put the right people in charge of raising money for the stadium, and she lead "The Drive" to get it done....the AD was in charge of the day to day things involved in getting it done and in gathering information for conference affiliation and needs, but SHE approved it and SHE demanded it happened and SHE made sure the resources of the university were fully available to make it so

and here is all you really NEED to see to know all of the above is a FACT

http://www.president.txstate.edu/questions/faq.html

What is your philosophy about the academics/athletics relationship?

Athletics is often a window for the institution, a window into the academic side of the house. It’s unlike any other window. Athletics can give you opportunities, such as fundraising, that nothing else gives you. Of course, there can never be an assumption that athletics is somehow the core of the institution. You can have the academy without athletics, but you can’t have athletics without the academy. A great partnership can exist, but it takes a desire for the partnership, which I think Texas State has. Like all partnerships, though, you can’t take it for granted and you never stop working on it. People on the academics side have to believe that somehow athletics is supporting them. I also think that on a residential campus like Texas State, athletics is an important part of student life. Students, even very good students, must be connected to an institution to succeed, and athletics is a powerful connector.

What are your thoughts on FBS football (formerly Division I-A football)?

In fall 2007, after a rigorous planning process, the Athletics Strategic Planning Committee recommended that Texas State declare its intention to move to FBS football competition after a current four-year NCAA moratorium is lifted. The committee also identified benchmarks we could use for measuring our progress toward that goal. President’s Cabinet endorsed this recommendation. Subsequently, the student body overwhelmingly approved a referendum authorizing a proposed increase in the Athletics Fee to be phased in over the next several years, one of the identified benchmarks. In February 2008, our Board of Regents approved this phased fee increase and accepted a $1 million gift to the athletics program, the program's largest gift ever. At their May 2008 meeting, our Board of Regents authorized Texas State to take such actions as may be necessary and lawful to become classified as an NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) university, subject to final approval by the Chancellor.

The Department of Athletics has developed a marketing campaign known as The Drive for the move to FBS football competition. The Drive focuses on ticket sales increases, attendance increases, and facilities improvements, among other things. This is a four- to five-year process with a projected move date of 2012. The Department of Athletics has provided responses to some of the most frequently asked questions about The Drive.

again directly from the president of the university in a question and answer session....RV does not have the power or the authority or the ability to speak to the academic side of the university to sell athletics as something that creates loyalty and student and alumni involvement to the academic side of the university...those types of things come from the academic side of the university PERIOD....RV can make all the plans he wishes, but if those plans are not supported or apporved by the UNIVERSITY President and then pushed to the BOR and the idiot in dallas then it is nothing more than an exercise in futility and a waste of resources and time and effort and worse if they are released publically it is a disaster if not supported by the university.....like being allowed to step up and say he was looking to raise 90 million dollars for athletics right when he was first hired.....for a university that at the time had less than a 90 million dollar endowment and had never raised more than a few million per year in the history of the university.....but al "the fool" hurley let him step right up to the microphone and say that and then promptly killed that idea and it has haunted RV ever since then.....what kind of person would step out again like that with a 5 year plan when they know the academic side can't plan past next week much less next year and will change their minds or not support something that is public at the drop of a hat

now lets look at UTSA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Romo

became president of UTSA in 1999....the 5th president of a university that has been open since 1969....he has been there 14 years

notice this part of that WIKI

The UTSA Plan: A Roadmap to Excellence

what does it say at 42 seconds into that video?....what did it show at 50 seconds?

http://utsa.edu/today/2004/07/30.cfm

Specifics of the university's "Roadmap to Excellence" initiative include:

Student life initiatives including projects that enhance the campus environment, athletic programs and student services -- all designed to contribute to the retention and success of UTSA students.

again it might be last on the list, but the point is it is a UNIVERSITY goal not an "athletics" goal or an athletics dream that hits a brick wall at the president and higher level.....it is COMING FROM the president and higher level

the 120 million dollar capital campaign

http://weareutsa.com/facultystaff/

what does it show for a photo with "enriching experiences"....why a football player...again a UNIVERSITY WIDE fund raising effort that INCLUDES athletics not the athletics department just acting on their own....do you see the name of the UTSA AD anywhere in any of that information.....did you see the name of the TxState AD in any of their plans....NO...yes the athletics departments of each of those institutions developed a plan....at the behest of the UNIVERSITY administration

https://www.utsa.edu/impact/doc/ImpactUTSA.pdf

again athletics mentioned specifically in "what UTSA means to the community".....from the UNIVERSITY level

even in the strategic research plan they mention athletics once

https://www.utsa.edu/about/pdfLibrary/pdf/2016StrategicPlan.pdf

now lets contrast that with what is going on in lil' ole' Denton

http://vpaa.unt.edu/files/StrategicPlan0813/StrategicPlan0813.pdf

above is an old university strategic plan that was set to expire this year that fell by the wayside some time back...it mentions athletics in passing a few times and that is about it

here is the one that took it's place in 2011 (only 3 years into the old one and 2 years before it was set to expire)

http://research.unt.edu/sites/default/files/UNT%20Strategic%20Plan%20for%20Research%20May%2024%202010.pdf

it mentions athletics not at all...

and now here is the new 4 bold goals and everyones favorite tag line A Green Light To Greatness!!

http://research.unt.edu/strategic-plans

you will again notice the links to the 2008-13 strategic plan, the 2010-20 plan and the summaries (and the summaries do not mention athletics a single time, the 2010-20 plan never mentions athletics, and as pointed out the former plan mentions it only in passing)....what about the 4 bold goals!!

http://www.unt.edu/features/four-bold-goals/

Athletics is mentioned a single time under "vision" where north Texas will be "celebrated" for it's athletics....that is it that is all that athletics is mentioned

and strangely those "four bold goals" are also called a strategic plan for 2012-2017.....so at the curent time north Texas has 3 strategic plans going....one for 2008-2013, one for 2010-2020, and one for 2012-17.....and even more strangely they are all three actually listed and linked together on one giant clusterfuck of a web page filled with crap and taglines...and most relevant to this discussion all three of them either ignore athletics entirely or mention it in passing with no real goals or quantifiable measures other than "athletics exist at north Texas and we haz some"

and of course no capital campaign....that ship seems to have sailed....although there are whispers of something happening in the next couple of months (after the whispers of something happening last September)

and of course people have been hired for big paying positions

http://inhouse.unt.edu/capital-campaign-fundraising-official-joins-advancement

or in the case of north Texas just bumped on up the food chain because they took the job on a temp basis and managed to keep breathing

http://news.unt.edu/news-releases/michael-monticino-lead-fundraising-efforts-serve-vp-advancement

and of course some were hired and then walked away without even staying for the shortest amount of time they had promised

http://www.dallasnews.com/incoming/20120407-unt-leader-disappointed-vice-chancellor-bill-lively-leaving-for-national-geographic.ece

http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2012/04/07/bill-lively-leaving-unt-for-job-with-national-geographic-society-in-washington-d-c/

something came up...brah!

and yea imagine that ole' lee the buffoon getting the short end of something.....damn that is about a daily occurrence.....and then there is what Denton gets....the broken off end

and just for kicks there is the "leadership" at north Texas....al leaves in 2000 to become "chancellor".....replaced by Dr. Pohl who lasted about 6 years, but really could not accomplish much because he had al as the chancellor and Dr. Pohl was viewed as just another move up from the previous 20 years of riding the pine as a university....then there was Dr. B who lasted about 4 years and got crosswise with a moron and was fired....and now the retired guy that was moved up from a temp position to become the full president that has lasted all of about 3.5 years including the remaining riding the pine time until someone else is picked (or moved up...maybe the nice DCCCD fundraiser lady wants the job) and also including his "temp time" while that nation wide search that looked under every nook and cranny to find a retired guy that would fill in for a few years until the search starts again

so in the same tie period that UTSA has had one president, TxState has had 2 (with most of that time being Dr. Trauth) north Texas will be going on their 4th president not including al the dolt...and there are currently 3 strategic plans in place....only one that has any real substance to it (2010-2020) that took the place of one that at least had a little substance to it, but that looks to have been replaced by one that is a tag line, cold hotdogs, swag bags, and 5th grade marketing class CRAP.....and there is only the most brief mention of athletics in any of them and not at all in the one with the most substance and only a single time in the one that is now the latest and "green light to greatness".....and yea there is suppose to maybe perhaps be an announcement about a major fund raiser when the 3 year retired guy that was acting as president just announced he is retiring so #4 can move in....and hopefully fix the hotdog warmer and come up with a new tagline and some swag bags

so compare and contrast those three different universities and tell me why anyone with an ounce of common sense or a functioning brain would expect that the AD at one of them would even consider making a 5 year plan much less makign that plan public with any type of firm goals in place.....because retired guy #4 might come right in and fix the hotdog cart, warm up the popcorn machine, fill the swag bags with stress balls and come up with yet another whole new plan.....or he might come in, ride the pine for a few years and GTFO for someone else....or hell he might realize he has a total dumbass for a boss in dallas and call him on that and get fired...

again you REALLY think the problem is on bonnie brea?....REALLY?

Edited April 6, 2013 by GL2Greatness

[DallasGreen]

Be careful, Bill, you are bordering dangerously of being blasphemous.

UTSA's attendance successes? Check out their athletic department marketing staff which are quite numerous. Sure they gave away a few tickets but within their athletic department's marketing department they seem to have a whole bunch of foot soldiers who are getting the job done for their home game attendance. While some at North Texas pray that we have a good crowd show up on Game Day at Apogee Stadium at UTSA they put foots into their prayers.

GMG!

Note that we never have any of our alums on development staff. If you truly want to court the metroplex, why not have staff members from here who know people in the metroplex? Denton is a lost cause and further time spent here is wasted time. If you truly want Denton County go to Lewisville or the Colony, but better yet have people not afraid to cross the county line to promote.

[Green P1]

I think it would be nice to not suck at football and basketball in 5 years.

[emmitt01]

"I would also like to know where we stand on membership and season tickets. It would be great if every year they said, "we have X many currently and our goal is Y - and this is what we plan to do to met that goal (and here is how you can help too)."

Precisely. This is far more likely to elicit the support they seek than "bitch less...pay more" which is the current mantra.

[wardly]

Pretty basic in business.Where are we now,where are we going,how are we going to get there? Not exactly rocket science.

[JesseMartin]

This may sound similar to my post in another topic, but I'd like to go a step further here. As the debate rages about what we should term as "goals" or even expect to be told what those are, let's just go off the rails and make a new path.

Yes, there are things that can or could or should be done in certain offices or positions. The rest of us are not limited by these.

So what I would like to see as our 5-year goal is for everyone with a vested interest to achieve one big thing. It could be an event, or a successful petition, or a number of people recruited to the MGC or the Alumni Association. You pick. These don't need to be mutually exclusive, like whether we support keeping or firing a coach. You have 5 years, so pick a few things close to your heart. Use your imagination. Every time you think, "wouldn't it be cool if...?" - -write it down. Get a list going, and in your spare time, see if you can work on a couple of them.

Now, this could be a group thing, with a bunch of other posters or alumni or students, or it can be a solo project. But you have 5 years. If every single one of us pulls off something big, of our own choosing and design, in 5 years, think of the implications.

This may sound like a very vague challenge, but the fact is you shouldn't be limited by my ideas of what could be your "one big thing" (or more, if you so choose). Just like you shouldn't be limited by the AD or the admin or anybody else. Find something that they aren't doing, or can't do, and do it yourself. Obviously this would exclude things that are controlled by them, so get creative. If you need info, ask someone - even if the department in question won't do it themselves, if the information can legally be given to you, many of them are glad to have someone do an extra part of their job for free instead of asking them to take on another project.

Instead of feeling down about the results of a game or season, or wishing we had more scholarship dollars or travel money for the students in your major, let's just do it ourselves. The University is limited by funds and personnel, but as long as it's not illegal, we're only limited by our own creativity. Figure out something that fits your schedule and/or budget, or team up with another Alum or GMG member.

If we accomplish a bizarre number of goals, the University community will see positive results whether they like it or not

How many of us are on here, including "lurkers"? Yeah, that's a huge number of people. Let's get rocking.

[GrandGreen]

I am sure NT athletics has stated goals, they just want to keep them as private as possible. I think RV learned his lesson early on with that presentation his first year with among other things had NT athletics raising over $90M.

All you are likely to hear from the athletic departments is the positives: facilities, new conference, non-revenue sport success and unbelieviably record football attendance (achieved with a brand new stadium and inflated attendance numbers) Anything but wins in major sports at this point.

IMO NT major five year goal should be to excel enough in the major sports to contend for CUSA titles and be attractive to better conference. These objectives are attainable but judging from the results over the last decade a major challenge.

[JesseMartin]

I am sure NT athletics has stated goals, they just want to keep them as private as possible. I think RV learned his lesson early on with that presentation his first year with among other things had NT athletics raising over $90M.

All you are likely to hear from the athletic departments is the positives: facilities, new conference, non-revenue sport success and unbelieviably record football attendance (achieved with a brand new stadium and inflated attendance numbers) Anything but wins in major sports at this point.

IMO NT major five year goal should be to excel enough in the major sports to contend for CUSA titles and be attractive to better conference. These objectives are attainable but judging from the results over the last decade a major challenge.

Obviously they aren't going public with goals...the only downside to dreaming big is facing the possibility that it won't happen. And those goals are probably similar to those of our competition.

But the upside to having big dreams is that if you find a way to let everybody do it, things just might happen. Look, as has been pointed out repeatedly, we've tried pretty much everything that has been tried by big programs, by programs "trying to get to the next level", and even a few of the "these didn't work for others but they might work here."

Fact is, we aren't what they are, and in an odd sort of way, we also aren't what they are not. We're North Texas. We're diverse and eclectic and bizarre, and we're also awesome. So let's stop doing what worked (and didn't work) for others. We have only come this far by being a strange amalgam of that which is traditional and all that is not.

Let's get crazy with this thing. Like I said before, unless it's illegal, we can pretty much do whatever we want. So, if what you want is to argue about what others should be doing, then the path has already been cleared for you to traverse. But if you have that feeling that makes you think, "What if we tried all this other stuff too?", then go for it.

If our goal is to be competitive and attractive for bowls and conferences and win over transfers and recruits and get everyone more involved...that sounds about right. And if the official means of creating that paradigm are failing, even when done properly, then those of us who really care can find other ways to make it happen. If UNT's athletic, academic, and extracurricular programs combined can make enough waves, then we WILL WIN. It may take a couple of years of grabbing attention, but pick your area and make it happen.

We have heard about everyone from Tulane and ECU to Tulsa and UTSA reinventing themselves. Lots of that involved marketing, recruiting, etc. Well, if our "best laid plans" aren't working out as we had hoped, we can type about who to blame or we can find projects that we can do on our own.

I hate sounding like a cliche, but since you guys have me actually sounding serious lately, let's face it...nothing of note comes from complaining and asking somebody else to do it. Our AD and admin and MGC and Alumni Association may be further along than before, but in areas where we see an opportunity for greater progress, I say let's go for it.

I'm not trying to admonish anyone here, not at all. I've had my share of falls and shortcomings, but the truth is that we should all have the drive to kick ass in everything, not by proxy, but personally (even if not literally, though that can be fun too). It DOES annoy me, as it always has, that it comes down to "ask less questions and give more money," but that's not the bottom line.

Of those who know me, really, when have I ever just taken what we were given, with maybe some complaining, but done nothing about it? Fine, we paid/pay for people to accomplish things on our collective behalf, but if that doesn't meet our standards, we do it on our own. Not for pay, not for glory or awards, but because we're invested in this thing called North Texas and we know what needs to be done.

I KNOW some of you, and believe that some of the others I haven't known are similar in their resolve. Accepting what is handed to us isn't enough. We make our own path. Let's do it together. Pick a project and make it AMAZING.

Yes, I'm challenging you. I dare you. Show me how awesome you can be, going out on your own and finding a way to make things happen. Even if you feel like it's so unlikely that it seems impossible, like it's you against the whole world...well, you might be on the right track.

I wouldn't even be typing this if I didn't believe that all of you were capable of making this happen. I don't care if you're 19 or 91...we can do this.

We have a lot of ground to make up, so let's get to work.

[shaft]

In 5 years we should have a football program that should start of the season with the goals of every othe program:

1. Go to a Bowl 2. Win the Conference. 3. Win your bowl game.

Atheletic Program Goal:

Break even financially.

RV Personal Goal:

Finish growing out handlebars for the 'stashe.

[ragpicker]

Win games. Oh, I'm sorry, you did say realistic.