Can Benford ever recover from this past year?

UNT90 · April 5, 2013

Tasty's post in another thread made me think about Benford's long-term viability with fans here at UNT.

He failed miserably with a team that conference coaches, knowledgable basketball writers, the UNT athletic department, and us fans all thought had superior talent by far to anyone in the Sun Belt west division. He lost to a D2 school in the biggest showcase this basketball program has had outside of the 2 recent NCAA appearances, a 4 win conference dog swept his team in a 2 game home and home series, and he finished with a one and done in Hot Springs (a blowout loss at that) and a 12-20 record.

Can he ever redeam himself at UNT? I mean, really redeam himself with a fan base that he super kicked in the nads like no other coach has done in years, if ever at UNT.

What does he have to do for you to forgive him? What does he have to accomplish (not that he will)? Can he ever make up for the SEVERE disappointment of this season?

My answer is nothing less than an elite 8 appearance will do it, and I will still be bitter about how he completely wasted the best basketball talent to ever play at UNT. Do I expect him to accomplish this? No. Is it necessarily fair? No.

But that's what it is going to take.

And that why he should have been fired at season's end.

And for context, Tasty's original post:

I was a little confused by the hire when I first heard about Benford as a candidate, but honestly, I was on board when he got the job. By far, the biggest thing I was looking for in a new coach was someone who could keep the roster together and let us field the team JJ had spent 10 years building.

I thought and still think that last year was the brass ring, our once in 2 or 3 generations shot at the sort of year that would cement us as a real basketball program, and redefine our ceiling in terms of postseason success and high level recruit awareness. Absolute worst case, I thought any caretaker coach who had our lineup could basically roll the ball out on the court and get out of the way, and we'd get to 20 wins and contend for both the NIT and NCAA auto-bids. When Benford was hired and managed to keep the roster intact (which I thought and still think was less than 50/50, depending on our hire)... I thought it was a solid hire.

The Marquette thing was a concern, and I did expect an experienced coach (even though my top choice, the one I was very vocal in advocating for, was an assistant with no prior head coaching experience). But Priority 1, by far, was keeping the team together so that we could take our shot at the brass ring. That happened, and because of that, I don't second guess the process or fault the reasoning that led to Benford's hire.

I have no problem with the initial hire, given what we knew at the time.

But, just like with Dodge, I have a lot of problems with what we've allowed to happen since the hire. I think we've made different, but potentially much worse mistakes, with how we've allowed Benford to run things. And they aren't the sort of choices that are exclusively at Benford's discretion... The most galling one (worse than Trey, in my opinion) needs RV or someone in academic administration (not sure which) to approve cutting a stipend check.

And at this time, I think we know what we've got. Beyond just blowing our shot at the brass ring, I think that even 2 or 3 full years of this is going to set our program back 10 years. But I don't think we've got $1.7 million to throw at Benford to make him go away now.

I had a long post in mind when Western Kentucky got added to CUSA about why I respect them so much and what sets them apart from us with respect to success, expectations, history, and financial support. Never made it, but those differences are very relevant to how we're handling (and financially able to handle) what's happening in basketball.

Edited April 5, 2013 by UNT90

Mean Green 93-98 · April 5, 2013

Forgive him? Does it matter? The past season is past, although it will continue to be factored into his job assessment. If he can get the team to the NCAA Tournament next year, I can't imagine too many people calling for him to be fired at that point. Elite 8 would be great, but that would immediately elevate him to being the greatest coach that North Texas has ever had.

The question with coaches always is "What have you done for me lately?" Just like past success isn't going to get a coach too far when he starts losing, this past year won't matter too much if he can bring seriously winning basketball to Denton.

It's probably all seriously hypothetical anyway.

greenminer · April 5, 2013

If by some magic pill he figures this out and starts winning 20 games NEXT year, people will move on.

I kinda doubt there is some turnaround about to happen.

CMJ · April 5, 2013

I mean if we got the tourney and won a game, I think just about everyone would be on board. Hell, if he can get us to the tourney period, I think most would have at least a foot on the bandwagon.

Army of Dad · April 5, 2013

Can he? Will he?

Anything is possible. I don't see it happening, he would have to guide the team to a sweet 16 or better before he breaks even for this toilet bowl season. I'm not sure that would be enough though. First impressions...

Cooley · April 5, 2013

I'm actually beat down with the Benford beatdown. It's not like we're an Elite 8 program. The man will be here next year and its time to move on. If he fails next year we get a new coach for 2014-2015. We do this around here every 2-3 years.

UNT90 · April 5, 2013

I'm actually beat down with the Benford beatdown. It's not like we're an Elite 8 program. The man will be here next year and its time to move on. If he fails next year we get a new coach for 2014-2015. We do this around here every 2-3 years.

Haven't done it in basketball for 10 years. And we won't fire Benford if he only wins 6 games next year. Doesn't jive with the bottom line.

greenminer · April 5, 2013

Haven't done it in basketball for 10 years. And we won't fire Benford if he only wins 6 games next year. Doesn't jive with the bottom line.

We haven't had to do it in bball in 10 years because every other sport didn't involve a successful coach waiting for the move to his alma mater.

_{Except for Hedlund. He's pimp.}

DeepGreen · April 5, 2013

Wonder if that successful coach you are referring to is a little bitter? I sure would be.

KRAM1 · April 5, 2013

We haven't had to do it in bball in 10 years because every other sport didn't involve a successful coach waiting for the move to his alma mater.

_{Except for Hedlund. He's pimp.}

Just a question...what's your problem with Hedlund? Seems he has been a pretty good and consistent winning coach for UNT.

greenminer · April 5, 2013

Just a question...what's your problem with Hedlund? Seems he has been a pretty good and consistent winning coach for UNT.

I think you misinterpreted me. I was acknowledging his success and loyalty to UNT.

GrandGreen · April 5, 2013

RV make a horrible hire and chosing to stay with him despite the cost only adds to the disaster. Sure it is remotely possible that he can turn it around, however the odds are staggering that he will not.

Benford was hired for two main reasons. One, it was thought he could kept the team in tact. Two, he was relativately cheap. The facts that he had never been given that opportunity before and that his main value was supposed to be recruiting not coaching were overlooked. I think most thought that with the talent coming back and like Stephens he talked a good game that he would be a success.

It was painfully obvious that he was in over his head beginning with the first game. He IMO should have never finished the season.

Everyone thinks that NT could not aford a negotiated buyout. Yet, overlook the fact that basically JJ made twice as much money as Benford. Therefore even paying for the settlement with Benford and hiring a new coach at a similar salary would not be significantly more than JJ would have got. RV went cheap and it is going to cost NT millions to get out of this mess.

No matter what you think of Benford, he is now damaged merchandise. His ability to recruit is greatly diminished and his ability to coach is questionable. Betting on Benford for even another year is foolish, it is like keeping Trilli around after he failed. Nothing good is likely to happen and NT fans will mostly desert the program.

Travis · April 5, 2013

Just a question...what's your problem with Hedlund? Seems he has been a pretty good and consistent winning coach for UNT.

Mark, I will go ahead and say it since we are on topic... I think hedlund has been ok for us... but, he will never take us to the next level. He can't, it isn't in his style of play. When we make it to the tourny we play against good competition... his style of play (a lot like the us soccer team) is trash because it is nothing but a bunch of long ball-mostly without purpose. it lessens the odds of a win against good competition and you are really just hoping that the ball bounces your way (literally). If we really want to see post-season success, we need to change the style. But, i don't think Hedlund has it in him.

jdennis82 · April 5, 2013

Tom Landry seemed to recover from a poor start.

Where's the value in rooting for Benford's failure?

UNTLifer · April 5, 2013

I'm actually beat down with the Benford beatdown. It's not like we're an Elite 8 program. The man will be here next year and its time to move on. If he fails next year we get a new coach for 2014-2015. We do this around here every 2-3 years.

I agree completely.

The most galling one (worse than Trey, in my opinion) needs RV or someone in academic administration (not sure which) to approve cutting a stipend check.

I'm missing something here. Can someone elaborate?

GrandGreen · April 5, 2013

Tom Landry seemed to recover from a poor start.

Where's the value in rooting for Benford's failure?

Who is rooting for Benford's failure? I fail to see any similarity at all in Landry's start with an expansion team and Benford's first year.

UNTLifer · April 6, 2013

Who is rooting for Benford's failure? I fail to see any similarity at all in Landry's start with an expansion team and Benford's first year.

Okay, Coach K failed in his first year at Duke.

NT03 · April 6, 2013

Not to get off topic ( and I don't know much about soccer ), but I think Hedlund is the least of our worries right now

Edited April 6, 2013 by NT03

Greendylan · April 6, 2013

I wish the man and our team success, and in all honesty I would forget all about this year if we just won 20 games next year. But...I've come to learn that miracles don't happen in Mean Green land. We're done for the next several years, at least, as far as men's basketball is concerned. We had our one big shot and blew it about as bad as anyone can blow it.

CMJ · April 6, 2013

Okay, Coach K failed in his first year at Duke.

Actually he exceeded expectations his first year. His second and third years were seen as pretty much a disaster though. However, that's mostly because he was playing his underclassmen he recruited over the veterans (his first team was a senior laden team).

emmitt01 · April 6, 2013

Actually he exceeded expectations his first year. His second and third years were seen as pretty much a disaster though. However, that's mostly because he was playing his underclassmen he recruited over the veterans (his first team was a senior laden team).

Boom! Roasted.

UNTLifer · April 6, 2013

Boom! Roasted.

Damn. Will I ever recover? With morons like you on board, Coach K would have been kicked to the curb after any of those seasons. Of course, this is coming from someone that would arrest you and haul you downtown should you ever consider criticizing him for his work. I can imagine getting pulled over by emmitt and responding in the nature that you yell from the stands at Benford. I mean, how dare we question an officer's performance to his face at the time of an alleged infraction, right?

Thank you CMJ for clarifying. I honestly didn't look up his record but knew that he struggled early on.

Edited April 6, 2013 by UNTLifer

UNT90 · April 6, 2013

Okay, Coach K failed in his first year at Duke.

Whenever you find yourself using an argument first floated out by Andrew, you got to know you are on the wrong side of said argument, don't you?

And it is such a stupid argument. If the Duke AD had ever proclaimed one of Coach K's first 3 teams "the most talented Duke team of all time" and Coach K had gone 12-20, lost to a D2 team, and lost TWICE to a 4 win conference foe, WE WOULDN'T KNOW WHO COACH K IS, BECAUSE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED!!!!!

But, not at UNT, because we are more worried about the bottom line.

Edited April 6, 2013 by UNT90

NT03 · April 6, 2013

Coach K went 17-13 in his 1st season @ Duke. Struggled in 2nd & 3rd seasons

Reason he was given a longer leash was because of his success at Army . Took a program who was 9-40 in 2 seasons prior to 31-22 the next 2 seasons

Edited April 6, 2013 by NT03

Andrew · April 6, 2013

Whenever you find yourself using an argument first floated out by Andrew, you got to know you are on the wrong side of said argument, don't you?

And it is such a stupid argument. If the Duke AD had ever proclaimed one of Coach K's first 3 teams "the most talented Duke team of all time" and Coach K had gone 12-20, lost to a D2 team, and lost TWICE to a 4 win conference foe, WE WOULDN'T KNOW WHO COACH K IS, BECAUSE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED!!!!!

But, not at UNT, because we are more worried about the bottom line.

Actually that info was passed onto me by a Duke grad at the time. He said that those seasons people were calling for coach K to be fired. It was just as stupid then as it was now. It is not matter no one takes use serious... we have fans like you. Of course I suppose that is why they are duke and we are UNT.