I love coach Dan McCarney, but...

The Fake Lonnie Finch · April 3, 2013

...if he fails here, it will be ironic that the downfall was defensive line problems - his area of expertise.

Crazy.

UNT90 · April 3, 2013

Also the hardest position to recruit in college football...

untjim1995 · April 3, 2013

I think if he fails here, its because he couldn't get those players here. His recruiting has been bad, but no different than normal for around here. I expect that he has guys here now that have been able to hopefully develop into what he needs, like he was able to do at Iowa State. McCarney is a good coach, I have no doubt about this, even if he cannot get us over the hump as the head coach. He has already lifted us up from the ash pile that Dodge and Dickey left us in. What I really wonder about ,and I just don't know, is if you can really build a winner here. Once the teams in the SBC either "matured" as FBS programs (MUTS, Troy, FAU, FIU, and WKU) or began hiring better coaches (ASU, ULM, ULL), we got passed by really fast and very easily because there was just not much support for Dickey's SBC champions from the majority of the fans and the media. Basically, since 1970, Fry had four great teams here in the 70s and is the only coach to really go down as a winner here as a FBS coach. Dickey had three good teams here in the 00's, but he was a losing coach overall and a PR nightmare. Coach Mac is the closest we can get to a Hayden Fry-type coach, for the obvious reasons, but I just think it will be real telling if he cannot get us turned around here, with a new stadium, more support, and a better conference. I'm of the belief that if he cannot win here, that really no one can.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · April 3, 2013

I think if he fails here, its because he couldn't get those players here. His recruiting has been bad, but no different than normal for around here. I expect that he has guys here now that have been able to hopefully develop into what he needs, like he was able to do at Iowa State. McCarney is a good coach, I have no doubt about this, even if he cannot get us over the hump as the head coach. He has already lifted us up from the ash pile that Dodge and Dickey left us in. What I really wonder about ,and I just don't know, is if you can really build a winner here. Once the teams in the SBC either "matured" as FBS programs (MUTS, Troy, FAU, FIU, and WKU) or began hiring better coaches (ASU, ULM, ULL), we got passed by really fast and very easily because there was just not much support for Dickey's SBC champions from the majority of the fans and the media. Basically, since 1970, Fry had four great teams here in the 70s and is the only coach to really go down as a winner here as a FBS coach. Dickey had three good teams here in the 00's, but he was a losing coach overall and a PR nightmare. Coach Mac is the closest we can get to a Hayden Fry-type coach, for the obvious reasons, but I just think it will be real telling if he cannot get us turned around here, with a new stadium, more support, and a better conference. I'm of the belief that if he cannot win here, that really no one can.

Agree 100%.

If he fails, then we will have run the gamut in the types of coaches we've tried, from high school coaches, to college assistants, to McCarney, the head coach with a record of building a traditionally non-competitive school into a competitive school.

If he fails, it really will be disappointing. And, at that point, it's really just a toss up as to whom to hire. People laughed off coaches like ACU's Chris Thomsen, who then became an assistant at Tech, then coaching them to a bowl win when his boss jumped ship to Cincinnati, then went to ASU to join Todd Graham.

If McCarney fails, we have to consider success at any college level. And, I can't believe I'm saying that...it runs totally counter to my nature of wanting the most experienced guy at the highest level possible.

One thing's for sure - as UNT alums who masochistically still follow the school's athletics, it's no easy ride for us. Ever.

Go Mean Green.

Edited April 3, 2013 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

Harry · April 3, 2013

Some great thoughts shared in this thread.

Mac has already secured a good place in the history of the program. If you doubt this go to a practice, look at the coaching the intensity the discipline. Looks at what Frank Wentrich has done in the weight program, the accountability. We have a better foundation to build from.

We know that recruiting is the lifeblood of the program. We also know that this staff can IDENTIFY talent as evidenced by the defensive tackle that Bob Stoops ended up pouncing on late.

The fact remains, from a ratings system we are getting around the same recruits in aggregate that we always have. The exception is of course that Mac is getting MORE out of these recruits in terms of academics and performance than the prior regimes.

If Mac can lead this team to 6 wins this Fall he will have given himself an opportunity to go beyond a foundation builder and could elevate himself to a Hayden Fry type of overachiever. To do that he HAS to get the recruiting up a notch. He knows this, as the Justin Gaines dismissal is proof. The problem is a chicken and egg. Winning helps sell recruits.

I think UNT hit the nail on the head in regards to defensive line being the most difficult thing for a mid major program to elevate. There just aren't that many out there. The power programs stockpile the ones who can contribute immediately.

My problem is not with the results or the efforts taking place as much as it is with questioning "why are we struggling in this area and what can we change to address it?' We know that programs like Tulsa - who 12 years ago was considering shutting the whole damn thing down - and La. Tech and lately Tulane who has had a disasterous on the field showing in recent times can somehow "re-invent" themselves in the eyes of the recruits. You have to figure out what they are doing, and maybe even try to emulate what they do to a certain extent. I mean for goodness sake, I watched the Tulsa C-USA championship game last year which was held in Tulsa and that stadium wasn't even half-full. They are a small private school in a small market that has a very low ceiling both in terms of support and TV interest. But yet, despite those shortcomings, they have figured out a system that is appealing to the players not getting offers from OU and OSU. What is our sell our niche? What things can we do to make ourselves more attractive to the inner city athlete who doesn't fit in at SMU and TCU? Why does a kid in our own backyard prefer to attend La. Tech? Are these questions being asked because perhaps we could devise a strategy that combats them or even copy their system if it is working.

I know with two high school students that the image of North Texas as a viable academic option for families has improved tremendously from the time from which I attended. Now we have to determine how to make that same transformation in terms of attracting the best athletes. The status quo isn't working. We need to first identify why we lose and determine what we can do to improve the results. We just can't afford to hope that things will improve when we win because if we don't get the best players we will have a hard time winning against those who do. GMG

UNTLifer · April 3, 2013

It is a tad ironic that many fans/alums want a coach with HC experience and success at the D1 level, Dan McCarney, but reference, or agree with a reference, to the superior hiring of Arkansas State, ULL and ULM.

Arkansas State: hired assistants from top programs and have become a stepping stone job. Malzahn was basically the Todd Dodge of Arkansas who spent a few years as an offensive assistant prior to taking the head job. Dodge, who almost killed our program, spent a year or two as a successful college offensive assistant before becoming a .500 record high school coach prior to falling into the SLC job that brought his noteriety. Malzahn replaced Hugh Freeze who was the ASU OC for one year and was previously the HC at Lambuth University, NAIA, for two seasons. Malzahn recently left and was replaced by Bryan Harsin, former UT and Boise State OC, who doesn't have any head coaching experience.

ULL: hired an assistant, Mark Hudspeth, from a larger program, Mississippi St., to replace a failed assistant, Ricky Bustle, from a major, Va Tech, program. Hudspeth did have success at North Alabama on the DII level.

ULM: hired Todd Berry who was terrible at Army, tough place to coach, and has two years of success at Illinois State after two poor years. He has had one winning record at ULM (2012) after two losing seasons while working on a shoestring budget. His team leader, Kolton Browning, was a two star recruit with limited offers from 3A Mabank.

The only one with D1 head coaching experience was Berry and it was a failure. He has had one winning season in seven years as a D1 head coach and had a 5-35 D1 HC record prior to accepting the ULM position. He was an offensive assistant for ULM (2 years), Miami, FL (1 season) and UNLV (3 years) between being a head coach at Army and accepting the ULM HC position.

Would any of us have been overly pleased with any of these hires as a HC at NT? Something to think about and proof that some people succeed as a head coach while others that are successful assistants just never pan out. Norv Turner and Dom Capers on the NFL level come to mind. Just goes to show that you never really know who will be successful and who won't. The successful ones move on from our level to bigger conferences, so the hiring process for teams like us is many times, more difficult than that of a big conference school.

UNTLifer · April 3, 2013

I agree Harry. I did look back through Tulsa's signing classes from 2002 to present and interestingly enough, they have also struggled at signing DT's. The usually end up with two star prospects, both JUCO and HS, some with size and some lacking a little (either good weight, but short, or vice versa), and some years they didn't sign any. I think you try to hit on some of these kids like we have in the past, but it is a numbers game. McDorman, for example, looked like a great find, but then injuries jump up and end a career unexpectedly. You just keep looking and hope you find another Booger or Evan Cardwell out there. It is interesting that two of our upcoming HOF inductees were undersized DT's in Kennedy and Chapman.

UNT90 · April 3, 2013

You also invest in your strength and conditioning program (something just recently done at UNT) and you start converting fullbacks to DEs, linebackers to DTs. This was the approach used by TCU to turn it around (obviously, they don't have to do that anymore).

I like Mac as a head coach. I think he has done a lot of things right. But, like TFLF said, if he fails this year, it will be because Apogee and an experienced college football coach still couldn't change recruiting at UNT.

I do believe it all goes back to Dodge. He made us the joke of the college football world and the least respected FBS football program in Texas (UTSA and Tx St. Are more respected as 1st year entries). Players have a VERY hard time seeing an upside to UNT football because for those recruits entire football watching lives, UNT has been the laughing stock of Texas football (2004 was great, but a 2014 recruit was 8 years old when that happened). Kinda hard to recruit when you are facing that kind of perception, as I'm sure Mac quickly found out.

I think Mac is our best chance, but I don't really like his chances.

cwb · April 3, 2013

I agree Harry. I did look back through Tulsa's signing classes from 2002 to present and interestingly enough, they have also struggled at signing DT's. The usually end up with two star prospects, both JUCO and HS, some with size and some lacking a little (either good weight, but short, or vice versa), and some years they didn't sign any. I think you try to hit on some of these kids like we have in the past, but it is a numbers game. McDorman, for example, looked like a great find, but then injuries jump up and end a career unexpectedly. You just keep looking and hope you find another Booger or Evan Cardwell out there. It is interesting that two of our upcoming HOF inductees were undersized DT's in Kennedy and Chapman.

If I recall correctly, Cardwell was a linebacker or end when we recruited him. I am not trying to drive the Dan wagon, but he has been around and might know what he is doing. As stated before, legit d-linemen are very hard to come by. You can't just go out and sign some 300 pounder that has no quickness. This is why we may be seeing Mac's strategy of turning ends into tackles. You beef up the guys that have some speed/quickness. Boutwell is a great example when healthy. I like the strategy, although we are a little behind in numbers in that I wish there were some more upper classmen already beefed up and ready.

cwb · April 3, 2013

You also invest in your strength and conditioning program (something just recently done at UNT) and you start converting fullbacks to DEs, linebackers to DTs. This was the approach used by TCU to turn it around (obviously, they don't have to do that anymore).
I like Mac as a head coach. I think he has done a lot of things right. But, like TFLF said, if he fails this year, it will be because Apogee and an experienced college football coach still couldn't change recruiting at UNT.
I do believe it all goes back to Dodge. He made us the joke of the college football world and the least respected FBS football program in Texas (UTSA and Tx St. Are more respected as 1st year entries). Players have a VERY hard time seeing an upside to UNT football because for those recruits entire football watching lives, UNT has been the laughing stock of Texas football (2004 was great, but a 2014 recruit was 8 years old when that happened). Kinda hard to recruit when you are facing that kind of perception, as I'm sure Mac quickly found out.
I think Mac is our best chance, but I don't really like his chances.

You beat me to it.

Harry · April 3, 2013

TCU is a fantastic example of how you ger CREATIVE and work within the situation you have. I think that is harder to now because schools have learned from what TCU did and copied it. I think we TRY to do that and an example would be Jerrian Roberts who was a TINY school stud linebacker that they have converted to defensive end. Please note that even on Roberts we had to fend off Iowa State and Tulsa at the end because they realized like us this was a kid that could be CONVERTED to a defensive line position and had the frame and speed to do so.

I also don't think you can only look at small schools, you are going to have to do well in the 5A ranks from an evaluation perspective because there are a lot of great players with size at that level who get overlooked because they are on a crappy team.

But the direction I was going towards, and it's a big issue for me right now is what is the system what is the strategy and how do you increase your closing percentage? I have 100% confidence that we are building strong relationships with high school coaches and we are identifying and recruiting prospects earlier and with a better eye for talent. My concern is with the closing the deal and of course the results. What type of player and family is the best fit for our UNT package? If we need to win battles with Tulsa and La. Tech etc what in our toolset is the best weapon? I sometimes get the sense that we don't always know what our resources are. We always here Mac say UNT offers an outstanding education and while we may agree we now that gets trumped when you face a Tulsa who can show a larger dollar value and private teaching to student ratio etc... So what are the strengths? Perhaps that your son will adapt better to a state school or maybe there are specific programs of interest that he can follow at UNT that aren't available at the private schools. Maybe our focus should be placed on kids whose situation leans towards staying closer to home.

I think Houston is a great example of what we can be. They are slowly but surely starting to be the BEST option for kids in and around Houston that don't get early Big 12 offers. And their talent level reflects it. I think a perfect example of UNT vs. Tulsa recruiting battles would be Houston and Rice. Houston more often than not wins those battles these days. Why? What in their sales pitch or package is getting more guys to sign on the dotted line? Is it facilities? It certainly isn't the dollar value of the education. Is it because Rice has additional academic requirements?

Sorry to go off on a rant but these are the types of scenarios we have to spend time and resources to understand if we are going to move things in the right direction. Sure, winning 10 games changes everything. But just like the belief that new facilities will raise your recruiting profile, we know from the Dickey era - just because you are winning doesn't mean that you are winning in recruiting.

UNTLifer · April 3, 2013

You also invest in your strength and conditioning program (something just recently done at UNT) and you start converting fullbacks to DEs, linebackers to DTs. This was the approach used by TCU to turn it around (obviously, they don't have to do that anymore).
I like Mac as a head coach. I think he has done a lot of things right. But, like TFLF said, if he fails this year, it will be because Apogee and an experienced college football coach still couldn't change recruiting at UNT.
I do believe it all goes back to Dodge. He made us the joke of the college football world and the least respected FBS football program in Texas (UTSA and Tx St. Are more respected as 1st year entries). Players have a VERY hard time seeing an upside to UNT football because for those recruits entire football watching lives, UNT has been the laughing stock of Texas football (2004 was great, but a 2014 recruit was 8 years old when that happened). Kinda hard to recruit when you are facing that kind of perception, as I'm sure Mac quickly found out.
I think Mac is our best chance, but I don't really like his chances.

This will shock you, but I agree with most of your post but I like our chances and think we are headed in the right direction. This year is critical though. We must show marked improvement.

Edited April 3, 2013 by UNTLifer

UNT90 · April 3, 2013

This year is critical though. We must show marked improvement.

And this is where I think Mac will not be successful. Too many holes and better teams on the schedule.

Cowtown · April 3, 2013

Truth

One thing's for sure - as UNT alums who masochistically still follow the school's athletics, it's no easy ride for us. Ever.

Go Mean Green.

akriesman · April 3, 2013

While I agree that the Dodge experiment was a failure, I do not believe that TD is the reason for our recruiting struggles right now. Dodge signed NINETEEN 3-star recruits in 2008, 2009, 20010. Mac has signed EIGHT 3-star recruits in 3 years, with ZERO this year. On the field, there is no question that Mac is a superior head coach.

We have a new stadium/facilities. We have a new conference. We have a good coaching staff. Yet, Mac's recruiting classes appear on paper to be a cut below Dodge's.

This is Mac's 3rd season coming up. Anything Dodge did to our program in the past is unrelated to the current situation IMO. It's not like we are recovering from a death penalty. Frankly, I thought that Dodge inherited a worse situation from Dickey than Mac did.

Mac is a good man and deserves better. Let's hope this years team can inspire some confidence and momentum for our program.

Harry · April 3, 2013

While I agree that the Dodge experiment was a failure, I do not believe that TD is the reason for our recruiting struggles right now. Dodge signed NINETEEN 3-star recruits in 2008, 2009, 20010. Mac has signed EIGHT 3-star recruits in 3 years, with ZERO this year. On the field, there is no question that Mac is a superior head coach.

We have a new stadium/facilities. We have a new conference. We have a good coaching staff. Yet, Mac's recruiting classes appear on paper to be a cut below Dodge's.

This is Mac's 3rd season coming up. Anything Dodge did to our program in the past is unrelated to the current situation IMO. It's not like we are recovering from a death penalty. Frankly, I thought that Dodge inherited a worse situation from Dickey than Mac did.

Mac is a good man and deserves better. Let's hope this years team can inspire some confidence and momentum for our program.

I think the flaw in that analogy is Dodge's 3-stars were at positions like wide receiver and a fair amount were junior college players who in many cases never panned out. I think Dodge signed some high level kids in the ranking systems but his percentage of getting or keeping them on campus was abysmal.

Green P1 · April 3, 2013

And this is where I think Mac will not be successful. Too many holes and better teams on the schedule.

Strangely... One more year in the Sunbelt (old Sunbelt i guess) could have really helped our situation.

SilverEagle · April 3, 2013

Also the hardest position to recruit in college football...

So riddle me this. Why is it that when you see stories about recruitment, you rarely see D-linemen being the focus of the story. It's almost always QB's, RB's, WR's and LB's.

untjim1995 · April 3, 2013

TCU is a fantastic example of how you ger CREATIVE and work within the situation you have. I think that is harder to now because schools have learned from what TCU did and copied it. I think we TRY to do that and an example would be Jerrian Roberts who was a TINY school stud linebacker that they have converted to defensive end. Please note that even on Roberts we had to fend off Iowa State and Tulsa at the end because they realized like us this was a kid that could be CONVERTED to a defensive line position and had the frame and speed to do so.

I also don't think you can only look at small schools, you are going to have to do well in the 5A ranks from an evaluation perspective because there are a lot of great players with size at that level who get overlooked because they are on a crappy team.

But the direction I was going towards, and it's a big issue for me right now is what is the system what is the strategy and how do you increase your closing percentage? I have 100% confidence that we are building strong relationships with high school coaches and we are identifying and recruiting prospects earlier and with a better eye for talent. My concern is with the closing the deal and of course the results. What type of player and family is the best fit for our UNT package? If we need to win battles with Tulsa and La. Tech etc what in our toolset is the best weapon? I sometimes get the sense that we don't always know what our resources are. We always here Mac say UNT offers an outstanding education and while we may agree we now that gets trumped when you face a Tulsa who can show a larger dollar value and private teaching to student ratio etc... So what are the strengths? Perhaps that your son will adapt better to a state school or maybe there are specific programs of interest that he can follow at UNT that aren't available at the private schools. Maybe our focus should be placed on kids whose situation leans towards staying closer to home.

I think Houston is a great example of what we can be. They are slowly but surely starting to be the BEST option for kids in and around Houston that don't get early Big 12 offers. And their talent level reflects it. I think a perfect example of UNT vs. Tulsa recruiting battles would be Houston and Rice. Houston more often than not wins those battles these days. Why? What in their sales pitch or package is getting more guys to sign on the dotted line? Is it facilities? It certainly isn't the dollar value of the education. Is it because Rice has additional academic requirements?

Sorry to go off on a rant but these are the types of scenarios we have to spend time and resources to understand if we are going to move things in the right direction. Sure, winning 10 games changes everything. But just like the belief that new facilities will raise your recruiting profile, we know from the Dickey era - just because you are winning doesn't mean that you are winning in recruiting.

I grew up in FW and went to many TCU games as a kid. Also watched the SWC for a long time as a fan. What has helped TCU and UH is the fact that they have administrations that want to excel in athletics. What has been the major difference between TCU vs SMU or UH vs UNT ? Two things. 1.)Coaching hires. TCU hired Franchione and Gary Patterson. SMU hired Mike Cavan and Phil Bennett. Until SMU hired June Jones, TCU had the huge advantage in coach. UH hired Art Briles and Kevin Sumlin. We had Darrell Dickey and Todd Dodge. Gameplan, recruiting, schmoozing with donors, managing PR, etc...TCU and UH had massive advantages. 2.) TCU and UH have more support from their cities than SMU has and we have. TCU and UH get attendance help from citizens of their cities that never attended those schools, but want to support their hometown team. SMU and UNT don't have either of those by any stretch. Of course, SMU has media help, but they are fighting the pro teams for pub much more than TCU does in FW. UH gets solid coverage in Houston's media outlets.

When SMU hired June Jones, they got someone who could pick SMU up from the ashes, someone who could connect with its rich alumni. He has helped get them back in contention with both TCU and UH on both recruiting and in performance. They have beaten both schools over the last two years. But he can't make SMU any more popular to Dallas-ites that only follow pro sports or feel no connection to a snobby private school. Its the biggest difference between Dallas and Ft. Worth, when it comes to fandom. Ft. Worth citizens think of TCU as their own. Don't know why, since both seem the same, but its the reeality of the situation.

As for UNT, The advantages that we have over other places are some of the following: public school that is relatable to a lot of people (vs Tulsa, Tulane, TCU, SMU, and Rice), pretty good academic reputation in the area (vs La Tech, ULL, Arky State), playing time (vs almost everybody but UTSA or Texas State), college town feel that isn't far away (vs UH or UTEP), nice new stadium to play in (vs. the SBCUSA teams) and chance to build something up from the bottom (vs. everyone but UTSA and Texas State).

Tulsa, Tulane, TCU, SMU, and Rice have the private advantages. We know them well--money, small enrollment, strong academics.

UH, UTEP, and UTSA have the market advantages--media coverage and fan support.

La Tech, ULL, and Arky State have the advantage of recent winning and smaller college towns that are appealing to kids who want to go away for college.

To me, Texas State has the exact same situation that UNT faces--outside of the main urban area of the media market and its outlets, but the town isn't big enough to have media coverage that matters. Texas State faces the popularity of UT in Austin, which might as well be the NFL, NBA, and MLB. Obviously, our situation literally faces the real power of teams of the NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL. We don't battle a college giant, like Texas State does in their market, but we do battle two small schools that are covered at a much deeper level than we are. Both of our schools went out and hired older, experienced coaches in Franchione and McCarney, that have won at a bigger places in the recent past. It will be interesting to see if either school does significantly better than the other in the upcoming years. If one does pass the other one, I suppose it will be due to the fact that one of them will be able to start winning in their conference and also beat someone in OOC that people care about. We have seen years where we have beaten Tech in OOC, but did nothing in conference and finished with losing records. Texas State beat UH this past season, but then did nothing in their conference. In situations like ours, you have to do both to get attention. And, to me, attention from the media and fans is what drives recruiting even more than coaching. Everyone associated with a player, the recruit himself, his family, and his HS coaches, want to see the kid go where he can get exposure. Its why I believe that McCarney is so far behind the eight-ball here with recruiting. The team he represents has been a loser for quite a while in the public's limited view and the previous coaches at UNT didn't make a dent at all with Texas HS coaches' view of our football team. He will have to develop players that can change that view with those Texas HS coaches. If he can do this, he will be able to create a pretty big advantage for our program, both in winning and in recruiting.

Edited April 3, 2013 by untjim1995

akriesman · April 3, 2013

I think the flaw in that analogy is Dodge's 3-stars were at positions like wide receiver and a fair amount were junior college players who in many cases never panned out. I think Dodge signed some high level kids in the ranking systems but his percentage of getting or keeping them on campus was abysmal.

Your right Harry. I went back and looked. 12 of the 19 three star recruits were JUCO's. And, very few of them saw any real action.

I take back my comment. At least the part about the nineteen 3-star recruits that TD landed

Edited April 3, 2013 by akriesman

UNT90 · April 3, 2013

Strangely... One more year in the Sunbelt (old Sunbelt i guess) could have really helped coach Mac's situation.

Fixed.

They are not necessarily the same.

MeanGreenTexan · April 3, 2013

So riddle me this. Why is it that when you see stories about recruitment, you rarely see D-linemen being the focus of the story. It's almost always QB's, RB's, WR's and LB's.

Boy, I seem to remember a ton of DT's being written about on a daily basis by Vito. 'Will we, or won't we land <player X>'. Much more than QB's, RB's, WR's and LB's.

meanrob · April 4, 2013

I would give Mac seven years to get it turned around. I just don't think it happens without that many recruiting classes. Which to me means that this year record-wise doesn't mean a lot. You can blah blah blah about losing fans or running out of time but to me, continuing to add onto the foundation is the most important. His second recruiting class will be seniors in year five or six. That isn't enough time. I want to see how the seniors do in his fourth recruiting class. Patience sucks and is trying, but so is starting over every four years.

If we don't start getting anything above lousy quarterbacking, it doesn't matter if we bring Booger back.

adman · April 4, 2013

When SMU hired June Jones, they got someone who could pick SMU up from the ashes, someone who could connect with its rich alumni. He has helped get them back in contention with both TCU and UH on both recruiting and in performance. They have beaten both schools over the last two years. But he can't make SMU any more popular to Dallas-ites that only follow pro sports or feel no connection to a snobby private school. Its the biggest difference between Dallas and Ft. Worth, when it comes to fandom. Ft. Worth citizens think of TCU as their own. Don't know why, since both seem the same, but its the reeality of the situation.

I think this can be explained in two words: Amon Carter. He was a populist. He championed his city and everything about it whilst bemoaning every other city, especially Dallas.

UNT90 · April 4, 2013

I grew up in Fort Worth about 4 miles from Amon Carter Stadium. Trust me, TCU didn't start being "Fort Worth's team" until they STARTED WINNING!

I used to go to games for free because no one wanted to watch a loser. We would run around the stadium (upper deck completely empty) rarely watching the action on the field. Jim Wacker won a little one year, and suddenly Fort Worth was interested. Waker left, the Frogs got bad again, and no one cared again. TCU started to win in the early 00s. This is when the city began to support the team. Everybody loves a winner who wins when it matters.

If we somehow manage to win a CUSA title and beat a Texas or OU along the way (as TCU has done), wait, watch and see how quickly the city of Denton and their citizens rush to embrace UNT football.

I doubt that happens anytime soon, but I guess we can dream.

Edited April 4, 2013 by UNT90