Moving On Up: Hurricane's Shift To Big East A No-Brainer

[Harry]

In this case, if reports are accurate, TU's decision to leave the crumbling pile of rubble that is Conference USA for the artist formerly known as the Big East is the right move for the Golden Hurricane.

RELATED STORY: Reports: Tulsa To Join The Big East

The soon-to-be renamed league will now have 11 schools, nine of which used to reside in Conference USA. Tulsa, East Carolina, Tulane, Cincinnati, South Florida, UCF, Houston, SMU and Memphis all spent time in C-USA, while only Temple and UConn did not.

Conference realignment has left a lot of programs out in the cold and scrambling to find a home. It has left a lot of conferences weaker than they once were. Does anyone think the Big 12 is the power it used to be when it had Nebraska, Missouri, Texas A&M and Colorado?

Or look at what the Big East used to be. It was a basketball juggernaut, on many occasions putting more schools into the NCAA Tournament than some conferences had TOTAL schools (11 teams went dancing in 2011). Now, Syracuse, Louisville, Pittsburgh and Notre Dame have departed to the ACC to join forces with Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State and others to form the strongest basketball league in America short of the NBA. What's left of that Big East is now otherwise known as the "Catholic Seven," and those schools will be retaining the Big East moniker to play in their own basketball-only league.

So here's what all this has essentially led to. Follow along closely now, you'll be quizzed.

The Big 12 is now the Big Ten. The Big Ten is now the Big 12, but soon it will be the Big 14. The Pac-10 is now the Pac-12, the upper-tier of the Big East left is now the ACC and the rest no longer plays football. The soon-to-be renamed "new" Big East is what Conference USA used to be, and Conference USA is an awful, awful mess.

That's why Tulsa had to leave.

From a familiarity standpoint, imagine if all of your friends transferred to another school, and you were left with a bunch of strangers. Rivalries and history drive sales and interest. TU has history with Houston, SMU, UCF and Tulane; fans are familiar and look forward to those matchups.

Read more: http://www.newson6.com/story/21801366/tulsa-to-big-east

[UNT90]

We are like one of the needy boys in high school who works out all summer, changes his fashion sense, all in an effort to sit with the cool kids at lunch.

First day of school, this former nerd confidently strides up to the popular kids table and is immediately asked to join. They compliment his new look and tell him how glad they are that he came over to the table.

Just as he starts to tell them about his summer, they start to get up and leave, one at a time, snickering the whole way. As they get up and walk away, the same nerdy group he sat with last year takes their seats. One by one. Except they hasn't worked nearly as hard as the 1st nerd.

By the time lunch period ends, everyone is back in their same groups, just at different tables.

Moral of the story? The Dodge hire killed our chances of ever being relevant in college football. Well, that and the administration really doesn't care.

Edited March 27, 2013 by UNT90

[meangreener]

We are like one of the needy boys in high school who works out all summer, changes his fashion sense, all in an effort to sit with the cool kids at lunch.

First day of school, this former nerd confidently strides up to the popular kids table and is immediately asked to join. They compliment his new look and tell him how glad they are that he came over to the table.

Just as he starts to tell them about his summer, they start to get up and leave, one at a time, snickering the whole way. As they get up and walk away, the same nerdy group he sat with last year takes their seats. One by one. Except they hasn't worked nearly as hard as the 1st nerd.

By the time lunch period ends, everyone is back in their same groups, just at different tables.

Moral of the story? The Dodge hire killed our chances of ever being relevant in college football. Well, that and the administration really doesn't care.

Really sick and tired of your persistent negativity. I understand being critical, but Jesus Christ it's freaking tiring.

[UNTLifer]

You too, huh?

[NM Green]

90 makes coming to this board a whip but in the spirit of Covey - seek first to understand.

I understand the frustration he and others have, but unless a rant comes with a solution or suggestion for improvement that he/she can directly contribute to I just can't take their message seriously.

1. 90 rants because he cares - love that

2. just add some suggestions and solutions to the rant for more effectiveness

At this point it looks like we should just pack up the tent and call it a Mean Green life. As long as UNT is fielding a team and tailgating is encouraged I will be there with diehards in tow. If I have stood in a hurricane against against Nevada, sizzler at OU, debacle at Rice and heartbreak in Austin, I sure can enjoy a beer in the Alamodome and some Mexican food in the Sun Bowl. Man the Mean Green helped me see Jake the Snake at ASU, taken me to the best tailgate in the nation at LSU on multiple occasions, observed a miracle in the desert, shocked by a hog call and many beat downs of ACU early on.

Awesome times to come!

GMG

[greenjoe]

I like that. Make no mistake, I want us to win, but despite not achieving all we should have, after 100 years of trying, I have met some terrific people and had some wonderful experiences following North Texas football. But I want to win. I want to win now.

GO MEAN GREEN

[untjim1995]

Really sick and tired of your persistent negativity. I understand being critical, but Jesus Christ it's freaking tiring.

UNT90 is just passionate about UNT--we sorely lack this from an athletic standpoint from almost every angle possible. He wants us to be the best we can be in an area he cares about. He's a man--over forty--and he likes sports. Most guys do. He sees his other buddies and colleagues that went to colleges across the state and region always talking about their teams performances over the last decade and he asks why is it that I can't ever brag about anything that happened the weekend before. Then he realizes that Rice, SMU, TCU, Texas, Tech, A&M, Baylor, UH, OU, OSU, Tulsa, La Tech, ULL, ULM, LSU,etc..have all done MUCH better on the field than we have over the last 8 years. Its tough when you are talking about 5-7 as your best year in the eight years and prognosticators are suggesting that we are going to win around 2 games this upcoming year. And its embarrassing. I hate it --and I know you all do, too--when I hear some TCU fan in FW talking about winning the Rose Bowl over Wisconsin or some SMU fan talking about their bowl wins over the last 4 years and then they laugh at you because you went to North Texas and they ask you how it felt to lose to Florida International Airport or Western Kentucky this past weekend. I've read FFR post on here before about getting constantly razzed about our poor performance all the time at work. It gets you down. A lot of negativity tends to come out when this stuff seems to never end. I've been right with UNT90 and his posts recently--and I'm sorry for that negative tone. I get down, too. I shouldn't, but I do, because I want for us to be the best we can be. And I know that yall do too. Sometimes we all let our frustrations out in such a negative way, though, that it loses its message because it comes off as griping and moaning. Its tough when you see the university make poor hires and get stuck with it for years on end, but in the end, we just have to accept that it is how it is here. Maybe the "value" approach here is the best thing for the university and it doesn't merit complaints about it because they know its what the university's core wants.

I will say this, though, about our football future--I trust Coach Mac and I truly believe he knows what he's doing in building us up from the ashes. I think this program has a better chance of becoming a winner under him than it did under anyone we've had since Fry as a FBS school. We won under Corky as a 1-aa program with absolutely no care at all to athletics. We had some years of success under Dickey, three to really be exact, but he wasn't the answer for a program like ours that needs fans. Obviously, Dodge was in waaaayyyy over his head from the start. I think Coach Mac knows what needs to be done and he's trying to do it the right way. And I think we will win 5 or more games this year because of the steady improvement. He got here and had no lines or a QB. Last year, the line play improved, but the QB play didn't. Hopefully, he gets more line improvement and the QB can make an impact that will propel us toward a competitive season. The biggest reason I want to see this thing take off is because I believe that if Mac does fail here, we aren't going to put a decent salary out there again for a coach and his staff. And at a school like ours, if we've learned anything in the last 35 years, its that an unknown coordinator or high school coach cannot build a successful winner here. Just as Fry did after his only losing season here, his plan finally started working and he left us with a ranked program for the only time in our history. I believe McCarney can do that, too. But this is the year that he has to start showing us that he can do it here.

Edited March 27, 2013 by untjim1995

[MeanGreenTexan]

We are like one of the needy boys in high school who works out all summer, changes his fashion sense, all in an effort to sit with the cool kids at lunch.

First day of school, this former nerd confidently strides up to the popular kids table and is immediately asked to join. They compliment his new look and tell him how glad they are that he came over to the table.

Just as he starts to tell them about his summer, they start to get up and leave, one at a time, snickering the whole way. As they get up and walk away, the same nerdy group he sat with last year takes their seats. One by one. Except they hasn't worked nearly as hard as the 1st nerd.

By the time lunch period ends, everyone is back in their same groups, just at different tables.

Moral of the story? The Dodge hire killed our chances of ever being relevant in college football. Well, that and the administration really doesn't care.

The Dodge hire definitely was not the issue. I think the 1-AA exile was. The Dodge issue was a manifestation of the struggle to get back to relevance after the 1-AA days. We're on our way... It's painfully slow. Unfortunately, we're encountering monstrous potholes along the way that cause us to have to pull over and put the donut on until we can get to a discount tire, get a new, better tire, and get back on the road.

I believe we won (early 2000's) too early. We weren't ready to sustain that winning culture. I think we're ready now. Get on a streak like we were on in the early 2000's today, and we'll be just fine.

[GrandGreen]

Anybody that blames Dodge for NT football futility, has not been a fan very long.

Dodge was a "hail Mary" that ended up being a disaster, like most do. If you want to blame it on HC's then you can add a lot more to the list: Dickey, Simon, Parker, Tyler and Moore. Parker and Dodge were high school coaches, has any other University in FB hired two with that background in the last 20 year? Dickey was a good coach when he had superior manpower, but when you can't or won't recruit that is hard to maintain. Moore turned out to be a good coach, NT just got him a decade too early. Simon was another "hail Mary", that NT hoped would be able to recruit because he was black, didn't work Tyler was fired after a year, I guess they didn't give out long term contracts back then.

So in my time as a fan, NT has one great coach Hayden Fry. I give Corky a pass he had nothing to work with even in 1aa and had some success. Rust who is also often cited as a bad coach. I think he was a good coach before NT continued reduction in support let to a massive decline.

The point is that all these bad coaching decisions didn't just happen, They were a result of a program that just never had the will or resources to compete. Every other school in Texas with the possible exception of UTEP, who has even a worst football history than NT, found a way to be at least be competitive with the other D1 schools on a fairly frequent basis.

The positive is that NT finally started to invest in athletics. The results have not yet followed but at least NT is in a conference with financial peers. Of course, they were in the Belt also, and didn't do all that well.

The issue now at least in my view, is does NT have the right people in place to move forward from the BOR on down?

Edited March 28, 2013 by GrandGreen

[Harry]

The increased amount of dollars put towards athletics certainly should raise the expectations on the field. If you factor in Apogee, the Athletic Center, coaching salaries and the many other improvements over at Eagle Point - is there a program at UNT which has received more funding? I'm not aware of one.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

90 isn't wrong. I've written this same thing over the past two days. We are not accepted by the big major or mid-majors.

There is plenty of blame to go around. Yes, dropping down to I-AA was bad. But, programs have been started from scratch and gone farther than we have since our return to I-A.

Bad hiring is another story. Hiring a high school football coach was a terrible mistake. Many of us knew it when it happened.

Problem...many of us thought an experienced coach would pull our chestnuts out of the fire. Well, we got our experience coach, but we are not much more competitive than the final five games of 2010 with Mike Canales leading the way.

Further disheartening is that a new stadium and the new experienced coaching staff have not been able to change the recruiting game for us. We still get about the same quality recruit as before.

I began my career as a UNT student in 1990. There have been many more dry than wet days in the school's athletics. I envy the folks who got to see us competitive in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

If being realistic is to be equated with being negative, then throw me in the lot with 90. Unless you're talking about God and Jesus, you can only believe what you see with your own two eyes...and I've into my third decade of seeing it.

[UNT90]

Really sick and tired of your persistent negativity. I understand being critical, but Jesus Christ it's freaking tiring.

Please, please explain to me what there is to be positive about in UNT athletics right now. We won't even correct an obvious mistake that has ruined the only consistent winning program in the big 3.

I'm done trying to fool myself.

[untjim1995]

90 isn't wrong. I've written this same thing over the past two days. We are not accepted by the big major or mid-majors.

There is plenty of blame to go around. Yes, dropping down to I-AA was bad. But, programs have been started from scratch and gone farther than we have since our return to I-A.

Bad hiring is another story. Hiring a high school football coach was a terrible mistake. Many of us knew it when it happened.

Problem...many of us thought an experienced coach would pull our chestnuts out of the fire. Well, we got our experience coach, but we are not much more competitive than the final five games of 2010 with Mike Canales leading the way.

Further disheartening is that a new stadium and the new experienced coaching staff have not been able to change the recruiting game for us. We still get about the same quality recruit as before.

I began my career as a UNT student in 1990. There have been many more dry than wet days in the school's athletics. I envy the folks who got to see us competitive in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

If being realistic is to be equated with being negative, then throw me in the lot with 90. Unless you're talking about God and Jesus, you can only believe what you see with your own two eyes...and I've into my third decade of seeing it.

I think that the experience coach has realized that this school's reputation is so poor amongst its own, as well as those in coaching and those that we are recruiting, that even a nice new stadium and great facilities just aren't enough. You are competing for kids in Texas that see SMU with a similar stadium, TCU with a brand new stadium, UH planning a new stadium, Texas State building a new facility, Baylor building a brand new stadium, and UTSA playing in a big dome--that is some of major competition for recruits we are looking at. I think we were all so beaten by the toilet that Fouts was that we figured everyone would love Apogee, especially recruits. Well, recruits look up here and see a great stadium, but it is home to a losing program with almost zero media coverage in the area (much less the state), games against teams they have rarely (or never) heard of, and crowds that really aren't that great. And, of course, the greatest of reasons, in my mind, will ALWAYS be the drop down to 1-aa and staying down for so long. We told everyone, both within the university and outside of the university, that football just didn't matter here enough to even try to compete at the highest level of play. Literally, there is not one of those other schools that have ever told their alumni and community and state that they just didn't want to bother with paying for a decent program. Now, you have DFW media who still don't care about us, as well as thousands upon thousands of alumni and citizens who literally quit following the program and decided that not following it was completely justified. How many UT fans, A&M fans, OU fans, Tech fans, etc...have UNT degrees? A lot...when you ask why, it almost always goes back to UNT not caring about our program enough to get their interest. This isn't a new problem from the last 8 years, folks. This goes back to the student body voting to end the program in the early 70s. It goes back to the administration finally defeating Fry and his desire to increase support for his winning program in the late 70s. And it basically died in the early 80s with the move down to i-aa. It could've been corrected early enough in the mid or late 80s to get our program back to a healthy state, but we literally let it become so disabled, that today, we are just a shell of what we could have been. If Coach Mac cannot do it here, at least in my opininon, I don't know that it can ever get turned around. In the last 40 years, we have had Fry with a great 4 years and Dickey with a good three year run. Everything else has pretty much been either poor, bad, or really just average. Thats a tough legacy for anyone to build out of--and no other team in Texas has to do that. But we do--and we ahve no one to blame but ourselves.

[UNT90]

90 isn't wrong. I've written this same thing over the past two days. We are not accepted by the big major or mid-majors.

There is plenty of blame to go around. Yes, dropping down to I-AA was bad. But, programs have been started from scratch and gone farther than we have since our return to I-A.

Bad hiring is another story. Hiring a high school football coach was a terrible mistake. Many of us knew it when it happened.

Problem...many of us thought an experienced coach would pull our chestnuts out of the fire. Well, we got our experience coach, but we are not much more competitive than the final five games of 2010 with Mike Canales leading the way.

Further disheartening is that a new stadium and the new experienced coaching staff have not been able to change the recruiting game for us. We still get about the same quality recruit as before.

I began my career as a UNT student in 1990. There have been many more dry than wet days in the school's athletics. I envy the folks who got to see us competitive in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

If being realistic is to be equated with being negative, then throw me in the lot with 90. Unless you're talking about God and Jesus, you can only believe what you see with your own two eyes...and I've into my third decade of seeing it.

And it still continues down the path to no where today.

untjim is right when he talks about the complete apathy from the administration. Just look at the student athletic fee, which just about every other public university in Texas has in place. Our students vote for it, it goes before the state legislature and all Dallas Lee and his BOR buddies have to do is lobby and explain that EVERY OTHER PUBLIC UNIVERISTY in Texas has it. But no. We get it only so long as it is tied to paying off the football stadium or some other facility.

Why in the hell did Dallas Lee and the BOR let that happen. More importantly, how in the hell does Dallas Lee keep his freaking job after allowing that to happen. The answer is pretty simple. The people that lead UNT don't give a crap about athletics. They were probably shocked when the students voted for this stadium to happen. More importantly, they know they face zero consequences for not caring, because, by and large, the alumni base itself feels the same way.

Until their are major replacements, including Dallas Lee and a good portion of the BOR, nothing will ever change. Disasterous losing coaches will keep their jobs, as will those who hire them, for at least 4 years because we don't want to pay the contract out.

Me? Well, I'm done with basketball season tickets for the foreseeable future, my Mean Green Club donation will stay where it's at (only because it has to) and I will show up and tailgate, socialize with the folks I know, and enjoy the club level. I might even watch a quarter or 2 of football.

I will never expect anything.

Edited March 29, 2013 by UNT90

[untjim1995]

And it still continues down the path to no where today.

untjim is right when he talks about the complete apathy from the administration. Just look at the student athletic fee, which just about every other public university in Texas has in place. Our students vote for it, it goes before the state legislature and all Dallas Lee and his BOR buddies have to do is lobby and explain that EVERY OTHER PUBLIC UNIVERISTY in Texas has it. But no. We get it only so long as it is tied to paying off the football stadium or some other facility.

Why in the hell did Dallas Lee and the BOR let that happen. More importantly, how in the hell does Dallas Lee keep his freaking job after allowing that to happen. The answer is pretty simple. The people that lead UNT don't give a crap about athletics. They were probably shocked when the students voted for this stadium to happen. More importantly, they know they face zero consequences for not caring, because, by and large, the alumni base itself feels the same way.

Until their are major replacements, including Dallas Lee and a good portion of the BOR, nothing will ever change. Disasterous losing coaches will keep their jobs, as will those who hire them, for at least 4 years because we don't want to pay the contract out.

Me? Well, I'm done with basketball season tickets for the foreseeable future, my Mean Green Club donation will stay where it's at (only because it has to) and I will show up and tailgate, socialize with the folks I know, and enjoy the club level. I might even watch a quarter or 2 of football.

I will never expect anything.

The thing is that we are just a different animal than the other schools near here and those that we watch on a regular basis. Texas, A&M, OU, and LSU are national brand powers that are easy to follow as T-shirt fans. You know that those schools have lots of alumni in families that breed fans from birth, even if they don't go there. Next, you have schools like Arkansas, OSU, Tech, and other schools that are in the big conferences that include Texas and A&M, that have decent alumni bases here in the area. They have major influence on the media coverage that doesn't already go to Texas, A&M, OU, and LSU. Third, you have schools like ND, USC, Ohio State, Florida State, Michigan, etc...that recruit heavily down here because they are on tv every week. Fourth, you then have Baylor, TCU, SMU, and UH in this state that are former SWC royalty that have had some modicum of success (big or little) afterwards, whether it has been recent or not is not really that big of a deal to fans of today. 5th, you have teams like Tulsa and La Tech that have been able to build ranked programs with small budgets and small student bodies. Every school that I just listed, not even counting any other current SBCUSA teams, put a much greater focus on athletics (football) than we do. It doesn't mean we have to quit and fold up the program or do anything crazy like that, but it does show you just how much other interests matter here. I am really now coming to the belief that putting any more emphasis on athletics here might cause more folks within the university's "family" to lash out against that decision. Because to me, at this point, its the only thing that makes sense. As you mentioned, the athletics fee goes away when the stadium is funded, even though schools like UTSA and Texas State have one in place forever. It seems like that was the only way this one got approved--that the fee had to go away at some point to keep the "family" happy. IOW, to keep the university as a value to those interested in lower cost for their higher education. It doesn't mean that it is wrong, just deosn't blend well with athletic spending.

[UNT90]

The thing is that we are just a different animal than the other schools near here and those that we watch on a regular basis. Texas, A&M, OU, and LSU are national brand powers that are easy to follow as T-shirt fans. You know that those schools have lots of alumni in families that breed fans from birth, even if they don't go there. Next, you have schools like Arkansas, OSU, Tech, and other schools that are in the big conferences that include Texas and A&M, that have decent alumni bases here in the area. They have major influence on the media coverage that doesn't already go to Texas, A&M, OU, and LSU. Third, you have schools like ND, USC, Ohio State, Florida State, Michigan, etc...that recruit heavily down here because they are on tv every week. Fourth, you then have Baylor, TCU, SMU, and UH in this state that are former SWC royalty that have had some modicum of success (big or little) afterwards, whether it has been recent or not is not really that big of a deal to fans of today. 5th, you have teams like Tulsa and La Tech that have been able to build ranked programs with small budgets and small student bodies. Every school that I just listed, not even counting any other current SBCUSA teams, put a much greater focus on athletics (football) than we do. It doesn't mean we have to quit and fold up the program or do anything crazy like that, but it does show you just how much other interests matter here. I am really now coming to the belief that putting any more emphasis on athletics here might cause more folks within the university's "family" to lash out against that decision. Because to me, at this point, its the only thing that makes sense. As you mentioned, the athletics fee goes away when the stadium is funded, even though schools like UTSA and Texas State have one in place forever. It seems like that was the only way this one got approved--that the fee had to go away at some point to keep the "family" happy. IOW, to keep the university as a value to those interested in lower cost for their higher education. It doesn't mean that it is wrong, just deosn't blend well with athletic spending.

It also doesn't blend well with fundraising for ALL segments of the university. Just look at the terrible endowment numbers.

If they want to keep UNT one step above a community college, go right ahead, but they will do it without growing the endowment.

Sound financial planning right there.