Tulsa Out, WKU In ?

[Cougar King]

Can't we not add another Belt team and do everything to lure back Houston?

Knowing our admin, the ONLY way we would come back to CUSA at this point is IF you gave us a Boise State type of deal (which is why we turned down the MWC because we demanded a Boise deal as well). In the A12, we're in Tier A with Cincy, UCONN and Temple which is evident that we are entitled to a deal.

[Harry]

I don't think the Belt will go under cause there are so many FCS teams wanting to move up. The only way the Belt goes under is if the NCAA puts restrictions on moving up.

[TheColonyEagle]

So if the little privates are dying to stay together.....Rice won't be here long...

[UNTLifer]

No doubt , which is we should be doing everything possible to get into the MWC, even though I doubt they would have us.

The one thing we have is a large market in Texas to offer. I know, no one watches UNT games, but for some reason, that never seems to matter.

We should be forging an alliance with UTEP to get to the MWC.

But, like I said, we are more concerned with the bottom line than succeeding in athletics, so I doubt we have even looked into it.

Didn't realize you were a current member of Congress, at least on the Left. Mortgaging everything for athletic success is irresponsible. At some point you have to pay the Piper.

[UNT90]

Didn't realize you were a current member of Congress, at least on the Left. Mortgaging everything for athletic success is irresponsible. At some point you have to pay the Piper.

Ya, it's hard keeping up with the UTAs of the world, isn't it?

It's all about the bottom line at UNT.

[ragpicker]

With some effort and creativity it is possible to build rivalries, but not if geography makes it impossible. Every year we have been a D1 program, starting in the fifties, geography has been our nemesis. The one good thing about the Southland was the short distance between most of the schools. We were actually developing a few rivalries in that league as was demonstrated by some pretty fair attendance figures in those years. I am happy to be where we are right now. Just win.

[Harry]

Amen Ragpicker -- we just need to win ballgames and good things will happen. I am still thrilled to be in this C-USA group and it will provide us AMPLE opportunity to move up the food chain. We just have to take care of business.

[Arkstfan]

With some effort and creativity it is possible to build rivalries, but not if geography makes it impossible. Every year we have been a D1 program, starting in the fifties, geography has been our nemesis. The one good thing about the Southland was the short distance between most of the schools. We were actually developing a few rivalries in that league as was demonstrated by some pretty fair attendance figures in those years. I am happy to be where we are right now. Just win.

Geography can't easily be overlooked. Take a page from Sun Belt history. UNT-MTSU was a quasi-rivalry but the minute it became irrelevant in the league race it became another game. The same goes for WKU-UNO and ASU-UNO in basketball. At one time Arkansas State would take over a thousand people to a freaking basketball game in New Orleans. Then it became irrelevant to the league race and the "rivalry" was over.

A rivalry isn't a rivalry unless it can draw a fair crowd for 1-10 vs. 0-11 in the season finale. Not a packed house but a decent crowd. No one is driving 10 or 12 hours for that game.

Despite all the shuffling and cries that realignment is killing rivalries, we have Arkansas and TAMU playing in the same conference again. They were playing non-conference before that. If you go through the old SWC, right now Rice is the only modern era member out there not affiliated with an old SWC member.

You even see it with the Southland. The Southland was strictly an Arkansas-Texas league when it was formed. Next year former charter members ASU and UTA are reunited, out the entire history of the league, the only schools to ever pass through that aren't affiliated or slated to be affiliated with other former SLC members are Trinty and Jacksonville State.

Sooner or later the geography wins out.

[NM Green]

That is why you don't hear a peep out of the MWC regarding Eastern expansion. At least in Vegas they didn't even talk about an inclusion of Houston and SMU even at the height of their movement. Maybe there were deeper rumblings than met the eye, but I feel they learned from the TCU risk. They loved that TCU brought some great cred to the conference, but imagine if TCU had been SMU but out on an island. They were fortunate and it brought great credibility. Now that Eastern ship has sailed. There appears to be no movement by the Pac 12 anytime soon, so they are safe with their solid regional (big) conference and some big dogs - Boise in both major sports, UNM, UNLV, SDSU and CSU in bball. Joining the MWC is a pipe dream for SMU much less UNT.

We must compete with the A whatever as a next tier league and simply have all of our programs win and get ranked.

GMG

[SilverEagle]

With some effort and creativity it is possible to build rivalries, but not if geography makes it impossible. Every year we have been a D1 program, starting in the fifties, geography has been our nemesis. The one good thing about the Southland was the short distance between most of the schools. We were actually developing a few rivalries in that league as was demonstrated by some pretty fair attendance figures in those years. I am happy to be where we are right now. Just win.

The 1989 SFA was our first 20K crowd at Fouts.

[Eagle1855]

Sorry, this conference is a joke. Once Southern Miss goes, it's us and a bunch of startups. Again. Except we've swapped ULM for La Tech. Yippee!

People can tell themselves it doesn't matter until they are blue in the face, but losing Tulane, Tulsa, and (eventually) Southern Miss marks the exodus of the last remaining "brands" in CUSA- the reason we joined it in the first place.

How long til UTEP goes MWC and Rice joins the rest of the private schools?

Edited March 25, 2013 by Eagle1855

[MeanGreenTexan]

Sorry, this conference is a joke. Once Southern Miss goes, it's us and a bunch of startups. Again. Except we've swapped ULM for La Tech. Yippee!

People can tell themselves it doesn't matter until they are blue in the face, but losing Tulane, Tulsa, and (eventually) Southern Miss marks the exodus of the last remaining "brands" in CUSA- the reason we joined it in the first place.

How long til UTEP goes MWC and Rice joins the rest of the private schools?

We'll still be playing UAB and Marshall!!!

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

So, if we put the C-USA t-shirts we got from the coaches' tour last May on eBay, what do you figure they'll fetch?

[VideoEagle]

How long til UTEP goes MWC and Rice joins the rest of the private schools?

They have to be invited and neither has been nor are there even rumors of such an invitation.

I still think in about five years there will be a major re-alingment of the smaller conferences along geographic lines. The A-whatever is showing there isn't strong TV demand for a National or 1/2 national conference. While the A-whatever schools do have a point they are stronger than the remaining CUSA schools such differences exist in all conferences. And the distance between a NT and a Houston in strength of programs and budgets is LESS than that of a Vanderbilt and Alabama or LSU. The MWC has always gone with best regional programs they could get regardless of market and they remain the strongest or 2nd strongest GO5 conference. Take the A-whatever, CUSA and yes at least some of the Sunbelt and reorganize along regional lines. You will end up with three viable reional conferences that will produce teams capable of competeing in the access bowl and winning. Good local attendence builds fan support - everyone agrees on that - and strong fan support will produce MORE money than the TV contracts any GO5 schools will have.

We need to win some games no matter what the conference we are in.

[Eagle1855]

We need to win some games no matter what the conference we are in.

I don't think anyone would argue with this point. It's our #1 problem.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Look, Tulsa is gone. Long ago, we found strange underwear under the bed and used condoms in the trash can. We just didn't know who the lover was, MWC or old Big East. Now we know it was just former lover Old C-USA Schools In A New Conference. Tulsa tried them all, I'm sure, as any good gold-digging whore will do.

Banowksy should be proud. He's now the de facto commissioner of the Old Sun Belt. He whines in the press about it from time to time, lamenting the state of affairs. But, you can't just sit in your office assuming everything is fine in any business. In college athletics, it's suicide.

The truth is, there is no validity to the "Well, at least C-USA is a better brand" baloney with which people are trying to console themselves. The majority of the college sports viewing public understand what now comprises the C-USA: a majority of the old Sun Belt, and more start ups than the few remaining old C-USA members. Television advertisers, networks, and bowl sponsors/owners know it as well.

So...where does that leave us? Pretty much in the same place.

I don't care anymore. It is more than obvious that the better mid-majors do not consider us birds of a feather. We accept poor leadership from the commissioners of the conferences we have inhabited while other flee it.

What we should do, then - as I've stated before - is quit dancing around the end game and do what makes sense geographically. UTSA? Already with 'em. Texas State? Yes. Add them as well. Louisiana? Yes. Arkansas State? Yes.

My guess is that Louisiana Tech will be sniffing an exit after Tulsa.

There are enough schools around us that we don't need an East-West "super conference." Just get the school together who have also been shat upon by past and current circumstances, and make a good regional conference.

In my mind, that comprises these schools:

The University of North Texas

The University of Texas at San Antonio

The University of Texas at El Paso

Texas State University - San Marcos

Rice University

New Mexico State University

University of Louisiana at Lafayette

University of Louisiana - Monroe

Arkansas State University

(Lousiana Tech University if no one else will take them)

Called it, The Gulf Coast Nine or South West Nine (Gulf Coast 10/South West 10 if Louisiana Tech is involved).

We do not have the money to differientiate ourselves. There is not Mean Green T. Boone Pickens waiting in the wings to be our savior. The arms race in Division I college athletics began in the early 90s after OU and Georgia busted the network television monopoly in the mid 80s.

We missed the boat. We weren't even at the shoreline looking for the boat at the time.

Unless someone has $100 or $200 million to give, we should be realisitc, accept what and where we are gracefully, and be content to become a powerhouse in our region. This chasing around a constantly moving target is expensive, time-consuming, and, in the end, a waste of time.

In spite of all of the fireworks and glitter, when all the dust is settled, all we've done is spun our wheels. Get regional. Control costs. Win where we are. Build from there. It takes more than a nice. new stadium and hope to join the "in" crowd.

[Eagle1855]

Look, Tulsa is gone. Long ago, we found strange underwear under the bed and used condoms in the trash can. We just didn't know who the lover was, MWC or old Big East. Now we know it was just former lover Old C-USA Schools In A New Conference. Tulsa tried them all, I'm sure, as any good gold-digging whore will do.

Banowksy should be proud. He's now the de facto commissioner of the Old Sun Belt. He whines in the press about it from time to time, lamenting the state of affairs. But, you can't just sit in your office assuming everything is fine in any business. In college athletics, it's suicide.

The truth is, there is no validity to the "Well, at least C-USA is a better brand" baloney with which people are trying to console themselves. The majority of the college sports viewing public understand what now comprises the C-USA: a majority of the old Sun Belt, and more start ups than the few remaining old C-USA members. Television advertisers, networks, and bowl sponsors/owners know it as well.

So...where does that leave us? Pretty much in the same place.

I don't care anymore. It is more than obvious that the better mid-majors do not consider us birds of a feather. We accept poor leadership from the commissioners of the conferences we have inhabited while other flee it.

What we should do, then - as I've stated before - is quit dancing around the end game and do what makes sense geographically. UTSA? Already with 'em. Texas State? Yes. Add them as well. Louisiana? Yes. Arkansas State? Yes.

My guess is that Louisiana Tech will be sniffing an exit after Tulsa.

There are enough schools around us that we don't need an East-West "super conference." Just get the school together who have also been shat upon by past and current circumstances, and make a good regional conference.

In my mind, that comprises these schools:

The University of North Texas

The University of Texas at San Antonio

The University of Texas at El Paso

Texas State University - San Marcos

Rice University

New Mexico State University

University of Louisiana at Lafayette

University of Louisiana - Monroe

Arkansas State University

(Lousiana Tech University if no one else will take them)

Called it, The Gulf Coast Nine or South West Nine (Gulf Coast 10/South West 10 if Louisiana Tech is involved).

We do not have the money to differientiate ourselves. There is not Mean Green T. Boone Pickens waiting in the wings to be our savior. The arms race in Division I college athletics began in the early 90s after OU and Georgia busted the network television monopoly in the mid 80s.

We missed the boat. We weren't even at the shoreline looking for the boat at the time.

Unless someone has $100 or $200 million to give, we should be realisitc, accept what and where we are gracefully, and be content to become a powerhouse in our region. This chasing around a constantly moving target is expensive, time-consuming, and, in the end, a waste of time.

In spite of all of the fireworks and glitter, when all the dust is settled, all we've done is spun our wheels. Get regional. Control costs. Win where we are. Build from there. It takes more than a nice. new stadium and hope to join the "in" crowd.

Agreed, 100%.

[Rudy]

The most optimistic thing I can say is that basically, all we have done is escape the clutches of Karl Benson. Mark it.

I bet Karl the Stalker will be the next commissioner of CUSA2.0, New Sun Belt, or whatever the conference will be called then.

[untjim1995]

Look, Tulsa is gone. Long ago, we found strange underwear under the bed and used condoms in the trash can. We just didn't know who the lover was, MWC or old Big East. Now we know it was just former lover Old C-USA Schools In A New Conference. Tulsa tried them all, I'm sure, as any good gold-digging whore will do.

Banowksy should be proud. He's now the de facto commissioner of the Old Sun Belt. He whines in the press about it from time to time, lamenting the state of affairs. But, you can't just sit in your office assuming everything is fine in any business. In college athletics, it's suicide.

The truth is, there is no validity to the "Well, at least C-USA is a better brand" baloney with which people are trying to console themselves. The majority of the college sports viewing public understand what now comprises the C-USA: a majority of the old Sun Belt, and more start ups than the few remaining old C-USA members. Television advertisers, networks, and bowl sponsors/owners know it as well.

So...where does that leave us? Pretty much in the same place.

I don't care anymore. It is more than obvious that the better mid-majors do not consider us birds of a feather. We accept poor leadership from the commissioners of the conferences we have inhabited while other flee it.

What we should do, then - as I've stated before - is quit dancing around the end game and do what makes sense geographically. UTSA? Already with 'em. Texas State? Yes. Add them as well. Louisiana? Yes. Arkansas State? Yes.

My guess is that Louisiana Tech will be sniffing an exit after Tulsa.

There are enough schools around us that we don't need an East-West "super conference." Just get the school together who have also been shat upon by past and current circumstances, and make a good regional conference.

In my mind, that comprises these schools:

The University of North Texas

The University of Texas at San Antonio

The University of Texas at El Paso

Texas State University - San Marcos

Rice University

New Mexico State University

University of Louisiana at Lafayette

University of Louisiana - Monroe

Arkansas State University

(Lousiana Tech University if no one else will take them)

Called it, The Gulf Coast Nine or South West Nine (Gulf Coast 10/South West 10 if Louisiana Tech is involved).

We do not have the money to differientiate ourselves. There is not Mean Green T. Boone Pickens waiting in the wings to be our savior. The arms race in Division I college athletics began in the early 90s after OU and Georgia busted the network television monopoly in the mid 80s.

We missed the boat. We weren't even at the shoreline looking for the boat at the time.

Unless someone has $100 or $200 million to give, we should be realisitc, accept what and where we are gracefully, and be content to become a powerhouse in our region. This chasing around a constantly moving target is expensive, time-consuming, and, in the end, a waste of time.

In spite of all of the fireworks and glitter, when all the dust is settled, all we've done is spun our wheels. Get regional. Control costs. Win where we are. Build from there. It takes more than a nice. new stadium and hope to join the "in" crowd.

Great post, TFLF. We did miss the boat, but to be honest, no one on the cruise really wanted us on there to begin with. All the former CUSA teams that have alternatives have run away from us like the plague. Being in a conference with other Texas schools is still better than being in the SBC as the only Texas school, so CUSA is better, if only for that. But I'm right there with you on being in a league with UTSA, Rice, Texas State, La Tech, ULM, ULL, Arky State, UTEP, and NMSU. Add UTA and UALR for hoops, too. I know that La Tech hates ULM and UTEP hates NMSU, so maybe those two teams may be out. But I just think that playing a game against Marshall or UAB won't be one bit different, both in cost and in revenue, than it has been to play Western Kentucky or Troy. Sure, Southern Miss has a much better history than South Alabama, but I just don't see any thousands more flocking to Denton to see USM over USA. I'd rather play USM, UAB, and Marshall than the other three SBC teams I mentioned, but its not like tis gonna make our athletic department swim in tons of more revenue. I would also guess that our administration would like the reduced costs of traveling only to Louisiana, Arkansas, and Texas (with Las Cruces being an hour outside of El Paso). You could basically do this Pac-12 style, with basketball games being with travel partners (UNT-UTA, UTEP-NMSU, La Tech-ULM, ULL-Rice, UTSA-Texas State, and Arky State-UALR).

There's just not much you can do when the other schools in the state that everybody knows and has followed for decades want very little to do with you as a conference mate. And if history is any lesson, the SWC schools have made it perfectly clear that they won't want us to be associated with them anytime soon. When they have all the power in their conferences, they can get the votes to block you from ever moving upward. Winning would seem to be the cure to a lot of this, but even that has never opened up any doors for us before. The only reason we are in CUSA is solely due to the fact that SMU left. If the Big East had taken UH and say USM, instead of SMU, Tulane and Tulsa would have never left, even if Memphis, ECU, and UCF left. They would have added MTSU, FIU, Western Kentucky, and probably UTSA to replace the four that left. Then we would really be screwed--because the SBC probably would have replaced the eastern schools with Georgia State, ODU, and Charlotte. How fun would that be? The current conference we have is fine, especially when you look at it from this perspective. But a more regional conference of current Texas, LA, and Arkansas schools would be cheaper than traveling to Old Dominion, Marshall, Charlotte, MTSU, WKU, FIU, FAU, USM, or UAB. Your farthest trips would be Las Cruces, Jonesboro, and Lafayette. It would be a poor man's version of the old SWC.

[NM Green]

I am sorry but that conference lineup is not nearly as attractive as what we have now. MTSU is solid and we have some years built up going against them. The FIU and FAU can pull some upsets and showing up in South Florida every year is not a bad sell. You also might snag a florida kid to add to the Texas talent. WKU has name recognition in bball and I am actually interested in getting to know Marshall and ODU. Southern Miss is also a solid program on hard times right now, but they still get strong representation even in SEC country. I know that from my work in the South a few years back. That heavy Louisiana schedule, some Texas and all the way to West Texas just does not look broad enough to me. The lense is way too focused on that lineup.

GMG

[UNT90]

The boat didn't know South Florida existed, yet they managed to get a cabin suite. The boat is all the way out to sea, yet UTSA is swimming toward it as fast as they can, having already caught us in year 3 of their football existence.

We don't have a T. Boone Pickens or numerous donors to make up one because we don't have the leadership to develop them.

When you don't care about yourself, it's really hard for anyone else to give a crap about you. UNT has still not learned this lesson.

Edited March 25, 2013 by UNT90

[UNTexas]

I don't think the Belt will go under cause there are so many FCS teams wanting to move up. The only way the Belt goes under is if the NCAA puts restrictions on moving up.

It doesn't seem like there are any restrictions at all anymore. When we moved back to D1 didn't the stadium have to be greater than 36500, average attendance had to be a specific number, etc? cannot really remember what the rules were but the NCAA needs to place restrictions on D1.

[DallasGreen]

Amen Ragpicker -- we just need to win ballgames and good things will happen. I am still thrilled to be in this C-USA group and it will provide us AMPLE opportunity to move up the food chain. We just have to take care of business.

I support this post 100%. How can we throw rocks at other future C-USA members when we may have shown to be the weakest addition???

[Rudy]

Well, at least I can still look forward to playing Marshall, for now.

[Green P1]

I support this post 100%. How can we throw rocks at other future C-USA members when we may have shown to be the weakest addition???

Bingo Bango Bongo