Where We Stand Nationally: Football and Hoops Combined

[Mean Green 93-98]

Present and Future Conference Mates:

#8: LaTech
#11: MTSU
#22: Arky State
#31: Tulsa
#43: ECU
#58: Western KY
#61: ULL
#76: UTSA
#97: Marshall
#100: UTEP
#104: Troy
#105: ULM
#107: Tulane
#108: South Alabama
#111: Southern Miss
#112: UAB
#113: UNT
#114: Rice
#115: FAU

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2013/03/ohio_state_tops_national_ranki.html

[Green P1]

That is so us...

[Harry]

[JesseMartin]

It may seem awful considering the company we keep, but when you consider the hundreds of schools playing DI and the thousands of schools that have athletic programs, period...that's not completely awful. I still think that by now we should be in the 50s or 60s, but a couple of good years in either program should put us there. Now we just need those couple of good years...!

[NT03]

It may seem awful considering the company we keep, but when you consider the hundreds of schools playing DI and the thousands of schools that have athletic programs, period...that's not completely awful.

Ooh. Yeah, um...I'm gonna have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you there.

[JesseMartin]

Ooh. Yeah, um...I'm gonna have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you there.

I figured most would, and yeah, I'd love to see us bump up even higher than I said, maybe into the top 20 or 30 combined. But top 1/3 of D1 and top what, 1% overall? In the grand scheme of things, we're still doing much better than "113th" sounds. But yes, 55th or 27th definitely would be preferable to 113th.

[foutsrouts]

It may seem awful considering the company we keep, but when you consider the hundreds of schools playing DI and the thousands of schools that have athletic programs, period...that's not completely awful. I still think that by now we should be in the 50s or 60s, but a couple of good years in either program should put us there. Now we just need those couple of good years...!

Since there are only 124 football playing schools, #113 as an SBC school is about as bad as it gets.

[JesseMartin]

There are 124 in the FBS, and thus in that set of rankings. With our campus, alumni, student population, and history, yes, we should be better by now. The point I'm making is that just by being in the FBS and near the Top 100 already makes us pretty elite, even if not as elite as the Power Conference teams are; and though some of our current and former conference mates are scattered in the higher rankings, most of us are clustered around the 90s and 100s. If it was a full ranking of all teams, regardless of division, that play both sports, you would see that we are #113 out of what, 2,000 or 3,000? So yes, being in the top third of the "elite" programs that are D1 and FBS would be much better, since those are the teams with whom we regularly compete. But when you compare us to the rest of the nation, we're actually really good, just not as good as our top-tier competition.

Edited March 20, 2013 by JesseMartin

[LongJim]

I, for one, applaud the objectivity of a formula using 1 season's worth of results from basketball and football programs, which then awards the "top spot" to a university which was on probation and happens to be located in the same state as the commisioner of the report--The Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Further, it is obvious that this 1 season of success is an infallible indicator of future performance. Definitely worthy of further consideration, and continuous reference.

[Mean Green 93-98]

I, for one, applaud the objectivity of a formula using 1 season's worth of results from basketball and football programs, which then awards the "top spot" to a university which was on probation and happens to be located in the same state as the commisioner of the report--The Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Further, it is obvious that this 1 season of success is an infallible indicator of future performance. Definitely worthy of further consideration, and continuous reference.

You can click the tabs on the bottom for any of the 5 previous years, or for the total of the past 5 years. It helps our cause a little. . . . but not much.

As for the top spot going to the local team. . . . the data are the data. I suppose other schools might have included postseason results, or chosen to throw in other sports, but there is no doubt that those are the two main college sports, and that Ohio State has done very well in the regular season in both football and men's basketball.

[LongJim]

You can click the tabs on the bottom for any of the 5 previous years, or for the total of the past 5 years. It helps our cause a little. . . . but not much.

As for the top spot going to the local team. . . . the data are the data. I suppose other schools might have included postseason results, or chosen to throw in other sports, but there is no doubt that those are the two main college sports, and that Ohio State has done very well in the regular season in both football and men's basketball.

Or, you could use something like the Learfield Director's Cup standings, which takes all sports into account and, to me, gives a much better indicator of how your school is doing relative to others in athletics.

[UNT90]

There are 124 in the FBS, and thus in that set of rankings. With our campus, alumni, student population, and history, yes, we should be better by now. The point I'm making is that just by being in the FBS and near the Top 100 already makes us pretty elite, even if not as elite as the Power Conference teams are; and though some of our current and former conference mates are scattered in the higher rankings, most of us are clustered around the 90s and 100s. If it was a full ranking of all teams, regardless of division, that play both sports, you would see that we are #113 out of what, 2,000 or 3,000? So yes, being in the top third of the "elite" programs that are D1 and FBS would be much better, since those are the teams with whom we regularly compete. But when you compare us to the rest of the nation, we're actually really good, just not as good as our top-tier competition.

I don't mean to discourage you, but this would have to be the lowest we have ranked in the last 4 years, and none of those ranking would have been all that great. It's not like this is headed in the right direction, by definition.

Although, any ranking that has Rice ranked below UNT really has no credibility in my book.

[JesseMartin]

I don't mean to discourage you, but this would have to be the lowest we have ranked in the last 4 years, and none of those ranking would have been all that great. It's not like this is headed in the right direction, by definition.

Although, any ranking that has Rice ranked below UNT really has no credibility in my book.

No biggie, I'm pretty hard to discourage. I know things are rough right now, and that we should be moving up rather than down. But the part of our nature that makes us competitive - and therefore appreciate things like sports - is the same part that makes us want to rank things and, as a result, be even more competitive. If the rankings only included AQ FBS schools, the message boards of every school near or under #50 would be down about the results.

It's just nice to realize, even when things are as bad as they are right now, that there is a silver lining. When you compare our 2 money sports to the rest of the elite class, it looks bad. And yes, we should - and must strive to be - much higher. But when you compare us to everyone, in every class and division, and see that we are in the top 1%, things seem a little bit brighter.

But let us not presume to simply concede our successes to date, but rather know that our strides thus far are merely signs of the advancements yet to come. In other words, the distance traveled to our current point may seem great, but our distance to new achievements is even greater and must be traversed with equal levels of commitment, desire, focus, and perseverance. As all of those attributes are ours as a community, and not an individual, I am certain that we will land In Higher Places as we more diligently promote unity, support, and reliance upon one another, even through disagreements, knowing that we are stronger together and learn from one another.

Progress can be a slow, arduous, and beastly endeavor, but at times the pressure to move forward allows for great leaps. Even when those leaps are far between, looking back at previous battles and developments can provide the encouragement and impetus to keep moving forward.

[jdennis82]

A down year is one thing but the most difficult thing to stomach is being #106 over the past 5 years.

During that time frame, we've opened a brand new football stadium and had the best basketball player to call the Super Pit home here for a year and a half yet we haven't taken advantage of either in terms of national perception because I would expect this is the most accurate assessment of casual fan outlook.

[UNT90]

A down year is one thing but the most difficult thing to stomach is being #106 over the past 5 years.

During that time frame, we've opened a brand new football stadium and had the best basketball player to call the Super Pit home here for a year and a half yet we haven't taken advantage of either in terms of national perception because I would expect this is the most accurate assessment of casual fan outlook.

UNT: We never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

[untjim1995]

Or, you could use something like the Learfield Director's Cup standings, which takes all sports into account and, to me, gives a much better indicator of how your school is doing relative to others in athletics.

If the Learfield Director's Cup contains records from sports that don't bring in any revenue and most people don't care about, then it really isn't what I would look at. The money sports ar football and men's hoops at those 124 schools. Maybe some get $$ from womens hoops or baseball, but the 124 schools is a pretty good measure to look at for where we stand. The last 8 years have been atrocious for UNT football. The basketball team had been solid, but looks to be back on the Trilli Express to failure. To be below 100 on that list really says something. I'd venture to say that we are the biggest school on that list.

We just don't care enough about athletics here--because the university's circle (administration, BOR, students, faculty, alumni, citizens of the city) don't want us to spend on it. No other school in our circle would accept what we have from our football team in the last 8 years. The AD at these other schools would have been fired long ago for one bad hire in foootball, much less the worst hire in school history--and that's not even counting the worst hire in womens' hoops and what could easiily become the worst hire in mens hoops history if the trend continues.

It is what it is. We want to be a "value" for cost of a degree. We want to continue to be known for our fine arts programs. We want to continue to be a great educator school, so as to produce a lot more teachers, which is what we have always been. Those are very noble causes and ventures--no doubt that they benefit society at a very high level. But they don't relate well at all to athletic spending.You cannot spend the money needed to really compete on athletics when the rest of the university doesn't want it. I just wish that someone in our leadership would admit to it, instead of having some NT Daily spare write about it in some column every month or so. Just tell us that it doesn't matter that much. Maybe you will get more donations from the rest of your alumni and Denton citizens for standing up for their views...I doubt it, but maybe you all know something about our alumni that other schools in Texas and the region don't have to deal with. We will never know just how much $$$ we have left on the table by not spending on athletics at a decent level over all these years, but, again, maybe at UNT and in Denton, our leaders know that it wouldn't have made us any money at all. Maybe we are just that different from the other universities in this region. Again, I doubt it, but nothing else makes any sense to me at this point, in regards to how little we care to spend on $$$ sports here. Any thoughts?

[North Texas Shep]

Kinda hurts to see this... Hide it please.

[Greenrex]

That's a mighty big plate full-o-truth, untjim1995, and it leaves a brown taste. Still, it is the truth and you spoke it well.

[UNT90]

If the Learfield Director's Cup contains records from sports that don't bring in any revenue and most people don't care about, then it really isn't what I would look at. The money sports ar football and men's hoops at those 124 schools. Maybe some get $$ from womens hoops or baseball, but the 124 schools is a pretty good measure to look at for where we stand. The last 8 years have been atrocious for UNT football. The basketball team had been solid, but looks to be back on the Trilli Express to failure. To be below 100 on that list really says something. I'd venture to say that we are the biggest school on that list.

We just don't care enough about athletics here--because the university's circle (administration, BOR, students, faculty, alumni, citizens of the city) don't want us to spend on it. No other school in our circle would accept what we have from our football team in the last 8 years. The AD at these other schools would have been fired long ago for one bad hire in foootball, much less the worst hire in school history--and that's not even counting the worst hire in womens' hoops and what could easiily become the worst hire in mens hoops history if the trend continues.

It is what it is. We want to be a "value" for cost of a degree. We want to continue to be known for our fine arts programs. We want to continue to be a great educator school, so as to produce a lot more teachers, which is what we have always been. Those are very noble causes and ventures--no doubt that they benefit society at a very high level. But they don't relate well at all to athletic spending.You cannot spend the money needed to really compete on athletics when the rest of the university doesn't want it. I just wish that someone in our leadership would admit to it, instead of having some NT Daily spare write about it in some column every month or so. Just tell us that it doesn't matter that much. Maybe you will get more donations from the rest of your alumni and Denton citizens for standing up for their views...I doubt it, but maybe you all know something about our alumni that other schools in Texas and the region don't have to deal with. We will never know just how much $$$ we have left on the table by not spending on athletics at a decent level over all these years, but, again, maybe at UNT and in Denton, our leaders know that it wouldn't have made us any money at all. Maybe we are just that different from the other universities in this region. Again, I doubt it, but nothing else makes any sense to me at this point, in regards to how little we care to spend on $$$ sports here. Any thoughts?

I'd plus 1000 you if I could.

The acceptance of utter failure of a basketball team that was supposed to be one of the best in school history should drive this point home with authority.

No other university in this state would have accepted this season without change.

Not UTA

Not Texas St.

Not UTSA

Not SFA

Not Sam Houston

Hell, not even Texas A&M Corpus Christi.

But at UNT, we just shrug our collective shoulders and say "welp, whatcha gonna do?" and "we can't afford to do what ANY other Texas University would do."

I really wish. I had not purchased club seats at this point. I feel like I bought a used car from one of the salesman in the classic movie "Used Cars", but, I'm locked in.

If I weren't, i'd donate the bare minimum to the MGC that would allow me to park in the blue lot, buy game day tickets at the window (or just get a couple of the many freebies offered by the entrance gate from fans not interested in attending). I could still tailgate with my group and save a bunch of money.

Because we all know that that's what it's about at UNT, saving money.

Why should I be more committed than the UNT administration?

Edited March 22, 2013 by UNT90

[KRAM1]

If the Learfield Director's Cup contains records from sports that don't bring in any revenue and most people don't care about, then it really isn't what I would look at. The money sports ar football and men's hoops at those 124 schools. Maybe some get $$ from womens hoops or baseball, but the 124 schools is a pretty good measure to look at for where we stand. The last 8 years have been atrocious for UNT football. The basketball team had been solid, but looks to be back on the Trilli Express to failure. To be below 100 on that list really says something. I'd venture to say that we are the biggest school on that list.

We just don't care enough about athletics here--because the university's circle (administration, BOR, students, faculty, alumni, citizens of the city) don't want us to spend on it. No other school in our circle would accept what we have from our football team in the last 8 years. The AD at these other schools would have been fired long ago for one bad hire in foootball, much less the worst hire in school history--and that's not even counting the worst hire in womens' hoops and what could easiily become the worst hire in mens hoops history if the trend continues.

It is what it is. We want to be a "value" for cost of a degree. We want to continue to be known for our fine arts programs. We want to continue to be a great educator school, so as to produce a lot more teachers, which is what we have always been. Those are very noble causes and ventures--no doubt that they benefit society at a very high level. But they don't relate well at all to athletic spending.You cannot spend the money needed to really compete on athletics when the rest of the university doesn't want it. I just wish that someone in our leadership would admit to it, instead of having some NT Daily spare write about it in some column every month or so. Just tell us that it doesn't matter that much. Maybe you will get more donations from the rest of your alumni and Denton citizens for standing up for their views...I doubt it, but maybe you all know something about our alumni that other schools in Texas and the region don't have to deal with. We will never know just how much $$$ we have left on the table by not spending on athletics at a decent level over all these years, but, again, maybe at UNT and in Denton, our leaders know that it wouldn't have made us any money at all. Maybe we are just that different from the other universities in this region. Again, I doubt it, but nothing else makes any sense to me at this point, in regards to how little we care to spend on $$$ sports here. Any thoughts?

Oh, lots and lots of thoughts, but you really don't want a discussion I am sure. And am pretty sure you are only wanting confirmation, not any alternative views and/or facts to support any alternative view.

[FirefightnRick]

I feel like I bought a used car from one of the salesman in the classic movie "Used Cars",

..."LOOK OUT Marshall Lucky....it's HIGH PRICES!"...

Rick