Oliver Hanlan

[UNT90]

Freshman goes for 41 in Big East tournament game.

3 star recruit whose best offer (by far) was from BC:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Olivier-Hanlan-118590

It's called player development, folks.

Who developed this year? (And don't say Jordan, as he basically got back to the way he was playing shortly before his suspension last year, and it took a full season to get him there).

Who is responsible for player development? The players? Right?

Right?

[Andrew]

Well I suppose there is a reason it is called player development..... But it is on both parties. You really think Lebrons high school coach "coached" him up to be an NBA player? At a young age coaches know who will develope into something. That is not to say player performance is always pre determined, but often it is. The rest is a mix between players and coach.

[MeanGreenTexan]

UNT90, on 14 Mar 2013 - 20:49, said:

Freshman goes for 41 in Big East tournament game.

3 star recruit whose best offer (by far) was from BC:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Olivier-Hanlan-118590

It's called player development, folks.

Who developed this year? (And don't say Jordan, as he basically got back to the way he was playing shortly before his suspension last year, and it took a full season to get him there).

Who is responsible for player development? The players? Right?

Right?

I don't remember Jordan taking the kinds of shots he took near the end of this season last year. last year, Jordan was very hesitant with the ball, unless on the fast break. He took VERY ill-advised 3pointers, and at times looked completely lost with the ball. The mid-range game he was flexing at the end of the year was virtually non-existent last season.

Jordan certainly did improve. I think Benford & staff deserve a little credit for this. And for me, that's about where their player development credit ends.

And for all of the credit they get for helping Jordan develop, they lose it in the lack of development of Coleman. I think this guy was handled all wrong this year.

[KRAM1]

Benford & Co. worked with Jordan to chage his shot a good bit. Am sure not everyone noticed and I would not have either if it had not been pointed out to be and then confirmed by the coaching staff. Jordan used to "drift" on his shots and Benford and Co. woked to "fix" that...results were noticable and Jordan bought in.....it goes along with player development.

[UNT Five&Dime]

You have the worst phone ever. Now it's replacing "Big East" when you type "ACC".

[UNT90]

You have the worst phone ever. Now it's replacing "Big East" when you type "ACC".

Who can keep up with conference realignment anymore...

If you wanna see an even bigger screw up, check out my sad attempt at a uniform thread,

[UNT90]

I don't remember Jordan taking the kinds of shots he took near the end of this season last year. last year, Jordan was very hesitant with the ball, unless on the fast break. He took VERY ill-advised 3pointers, and at times looked completely lost with the ball. The mid-range game he was flexing at the end of the year was virtually non-existent last season.

Jordan certainly did improve. I think Benford & staff deserve a little credit for this. And for me, that's about where their player development credit ends.

And for all of the credit they get for helping Jordan develop, they lose it in the lack of development of Coleman. I think this guy was handled all wrong this year.

Well, let me put on my Tasty hat and lets take a look at the numbers, shall we?

First, I think many of you forget how well Jordan was playing right before he and Chris were suspended. Anyway, here we go:

Last six games of 2011-12 season before suspension:

.482 FG% from the floor.

.346% from 3 point range

2.8 RPG (.117 rebounds per minute played)

1 APG

2.3 TOs per game

12 Points PG in 24 minutes PG (0.5 points per minute)

Last 6 games this year:

.437 FG% per game

.444 FG % from 3 point line (good improvement)

3.6 RPG (.106 rebound per minute played)

1 assist. Not per game. 1 assist in the last 6 games.

2.8 TOs per game

17.5 PPG in 34 MPG (yep, 0.5 points per minute).

So it took Benford a full year to get JW back to the level he was playing at when he was suspended last year. That's coaching right there.

Now lets look at the year end stats:

2011-2012:

.410 FG%. .274 FG% from 3 .778 FT%. 4.0 rebounds per game 10.9 PPG. 1.31 assists per game. 2.2 TOs per game. 25.3 minutes per game (.436 points per minute played)

2012-2013:

.416 FG%. .341 3P% .732 FT%. 3.7 RPG. 0.7 APG 2.2 TO per game. 31.7 MPG. 14.2 PPG (.447 points per minute)

Marginal improvement at best.

When you figure in assists per minutes played, that stat is actually quite concerning in its direction.

Like I said, I think a lot of you forget how well Jordan was playing right before his suspension last year. This is not a shot at Jordan at all and I like him as a player (but he does need to get his ass on the boards, play better D, and mature, as that bad Technical in Hot Speings showed), this is just breaking down the raw numbers to show that his last 6 games last year and this year were pretty much a wash.

Keep working, Jordan.

Edited March 15, 2013 by UNT90

[CMJ]

Well, let me put on my Tasty hat and lets take a look at the numbers, shall we?

First, I think many of you forget how well Jordan was playing right before he and Chris were suspended. Anyway, here we go:

Last six games of 2011-12 season before suspension:

.482 FG% from the floor.

.346% from 3 point range

2.8 RPG (.117 rebounds per minute played)

1 APG

2.3 TOs per game

12 Points PG in 24 minutes PG (0.5 points per minute)

Last 6 games this year:

.437 FG% per game

.444 FG % from 3 point line (good improvement)

3.6 RPG (.106 rebound per minute played)

1 assist. Not per game. 1 assist in the last 6 games.

2.8 TOs per game

17.5 PPG in 34 MPG (yep, 0.5 points per minute).

So it took Benford a full year to get JW back to the level he was playing at when he was suspended last year. That's coaching right there.

Now lets look at the year end stats:

2011-2012:

.410 FG%. .274 FG% from 3 .778 FT%. 4.0 rebounds per game 10.9 PPG. 1.31 assists per game. 2.2 TOs per game. 25.3 minutes per game (.436 points per minute played)

2012-2013:

.416 FG%. .341 3P% .732 FT%. 3.7 RPG. 0.7 APG 2.2 TO per game. 31.7 MPG. 14.2 PPG (.447 points per minute)

Marginal improvement at best.

When you figure in assists per minutes played, that star is actually quite concerning in its direction.

Like I said, I think a lot of you forget how well Jordan was playing right before his suspension last year. This is not a shot at Jordan at all and I like him as a player (but he does need to get his ass on the boards, play better D, and mature, as that bad Technical in Hot Speings showed), this is just breaking down the raw numbers to show that his last 6 games last year and this year were pretty much a wash.

Keep working, Jordan.

Wow, that IS Tasty level number crunching. Well done.

[Green P1]

Well, let me put on my Tasty hat and lets take a look at the numbers, shall we?

First, I think many of you forget how well Jordan was playing right before he and Chris were suspended. Anyway, here we go:

Last six games of 2011-12 season before suspension:

.482 FG% from the floor.

.346% from 3 point range

2.8 RPG (.117 rebounds per minute played)

1 APG

2.3 TOs per game

12 Points PG in 24 minutes PG (0.5 points per minute)

Last 6 games this year:

.437 FG% per game

.444 FG % from 3 point line (good improvement)

3.6 RPG (.106 rebound per minute played)

1 assist. Not per game. 1 assist in the last 6 games.

2.8 TOs per game

17.5 PPG in 34 MPG (yep, 0.5 points per minute).

So it took Benford a full year to get JW back to the level he was playing at when he was suspended last year. That's coaching right there.

Now lets look at the year end stats:

2011-2012:

.410 FG%. .274 FG% from 3 .778 FT%. 4.0 rebounds per game 10.9 PPG. 1.31 assists per game. 2.2 TOs per game. 25.3 minutes per game (.436 points per minute played)

2012-2013:

.416 FG%. .341 3P% .732 FT%. 3.7 RPG. 0.7 APG 2.2 TO per game. 31.7 MPG. 14.2 PPG (.447 points per minute)

Marginal improvement at best.

When you figure in assists per minutes played, that stat is actually quite concerning in its direction.

Like I said, I think a lot of you forget how well Jordan was playing right before his suspension last year. This is not a shot at Jordan at all and I like him as a player (but he does need to get his ass on the boards, play better D, and mature, as that bad Technical in Hot Speings showed), this is just breaking down the raw numbers to show that his last 6 games last year and this year were pretty much a wash.

Keep working, Jordan.

Well crap... I guess I need to go downgrade the silver star I gave Benny in the other thread to a bronze...

[Green Crazy]

Well, let me put on my Tasty hat and lets take a look at the numbers, shall we?

First, I think many of you forget how well Jordan was playing right before he and Chris were suspended. Anyway, here we go:

Last six games of 2011-12 season before suspension:

.482 FG% from the floor.

.346% from 3 point range

2.8 RPG (.117 rebounds per minute played)

1 APG

2.3 TOs per game

12 Points PG in 24 minutes PG (0.5 points per minute)

Last 6 games this year:

.437 FG% per game

.444 FG % from 3 point line (good improvement)

3.6 RPG (.106 rebound per minute played)

1 assist. Not per game. 1 assist in the last 6 games.

2.8 TOs per game

17.5 PPG in 34 MPG (yep, 0.5 points per minute).

So it took Benford a full year to get JW back to the level he was playing at when he was suspended last year. That's coaching right there.

Now lets look at the year end stats:

2011-2012:

.410 FG%. .274 FG% from 3 .778 FT%. 4.0 rebounds per game 10.9 PPG. 1.31 assists per game. 2.2 TOs per game. 25.3 minutes per game (.436 points per minute played)

2012-2013:

.416 FG%. .341 3P% .732 FT%. 3.7 RPG. 0.7 APG 2.2 TO per game. 31.7 MPG. 14.2 PPG (.447 points per minute)

Marginal improvement at best.

When you figure in assists per minutes played, that stat is actually quite concerning in its direction.

Like I said, I think a lot of you forget how well Jordan was playing right before his suspension last year. This is not a shot at Jordan at all and I like him as a player (but he does need to get his ass on the boards, play better D, and mature, as that bad Technical in Hot Speings showed), this is just breaking down the raw numbers to show that his last 6 games last year and this year were pretty much a wash.

Keep working, Jordan.

There are a lot of factors that go into the apg. So, it's hard to say this is any gauge of his development.

[UNT90]

There are a lot of factors that go into the apg. So, it's hard to say this is any gauge of his development.

Really?

The only factors that go into PPG are minutes played, assists and turnovers. Those were covered.

Stats don't lie. If you think they do, you are emotionally trying to fool yourself.

Edited March 17, 2013 by UNT90

[Green Crazy]

i'm not arguing with what you're saying necessarily. his ability to develop players is suspect for sure, but i'm holding off until about 10-15 games into next season.

as for the assist per game thing, well, the players you pass it to have to hit their shots. you could be making great passes, but if they aren't dropping for the players you're passing to then that's going to play a huge part in your assist numbers. last i checked, you only get an assist if the guy makes his shot. things that play into this...the defense your up against and how good a shooting team you are.

also, the style of offense plays a part. an quick temp offense that puts up more shots will probably have more assist and vice versa. is your offense one that pounds it inside or is it a jump shooting team?

these were just a couple of the obvious ones to me. do these not play a part in assist numbers?

[UNT90]

i'm not arguing with what you're saying necessarily. his ability to develop players is suspect for sure, but i'm holding off until about 10-15 games into next season.

as for the assist per game thing, well, the players you pass it to have to hit their shots. you could be making great passes, but if they aren't dropping for the players you're passing to then that's going to play a huge part in your assist numbers. last i checked, you only get an assist if the guy makes his shot. things that play into this...the defense your up against and how good a shooting team you are.

also, the style of offense plays a part. an quick temp offense that puts up more shots will probably have more assist and vice versa. is your offense one that pounds it inside or is it a jump shooting team?

these were just a couple of the obvious ones to me. do these not play a part in assist numbers?

No, it doesn't. It's all about points generated. Period.

Stats don't lie. Other guys with better assist numbers also have to rely on the pass recipient to make the shot. So, again, you are just looking to fool yourself.

[Green Crazy]

No, it doesn't. It's all about points generated. Period.

Stats don't lie. Other guys with better assist numbers also have to rely on the pass recipient to make the shot. So, again, you are just looking to fool yourself.

the team as a whole had a pretty big drop in apm (0.301 to 0.254) and everyone elses apm's dropped with the exception of cj and franklin. i just think it has more to do with benford's offensive ineptitudes than a reflection on jordan himself (it was a pretty big drop though). i'll just say let's agree to disagree.

Well, let me put on my Tasty hat and lets take a look at the numbers, shall we?

First, I think many of you forget how well Jordan was playing right before he and Chris were suspended. Anyway, here we go:

Last six games of 2011-12 season before suspension:

.482 FG% from the floor. .442

.346% from 3 point range .36

2.8 RPG (.117 rebounds per minute played) 2.5 and .104

1 APG

2.3 TOs per game 2.17

12 Points PG in 24 minutes PG (0.5 points per minute)

Last 6 games this year:

.437 FG% per game

.444 FG % from 3 point line (good improvement)

3.6 RPG (.106 rebound per minute played)

1 assist. Not per game. 1 assist in the last 6 games.

2.8 TOs per game

17.5 PPG in 34 MPG (yep, 0.5 points per minute). .510 (it's only off .01, but that adds up to 1 pt every 10 minutes)

So it took Benford a full year to get JW back to the level he was playing at when he was suspended last year. That's coaching right there.

Now lets look at the year end stats:

2011-2012:

.410 FG%. .274 FG% from 3 .778 FT%. 4.0 rebounds per game 10.9 PPG. 1.31 assists per game. 2.2 TOs per game. 25.3 minutes per game (.436 points per minute played)

2012-2013:

.416 FG%. .341 3P% .732 FT%. 3.7 RPG. 0.7 APG 2.2 TO per game. 31.7 MPG. 14.2 PPG (.447 points per minute)

Marginal improvement at best.

When you figure in assists per minutes played, that stat is actually quite concerning in its direction.

Like I said, I think a lot of you forget how well Jordan was playing right before his suspension last year. This is not a shot at Jordan at all and I like him as a player (but he does need to get his ass on the boards, play better D, and mature, as that bad Technical in Hot Speings showed), this is just breaking down the raw numbers to show that his last 6 games last year and this year were pretty much a wash.

Keep working, Jordan.

also, some of your numbers were off slightly. as far as him needing to improve on d, the boards and needing to mature, you're dead on.