Thanks RV

flyonthewall · March 13, 2013

I guess I am just different. I am not saying that this season was not a failure. This season was a complete failure. We underachieved. I talked this thing up for the entire football season. Then I traveled with my wife to Manhattan Kansas and watched us get beat by a division II team????

I am just saying that Tony Benford is the coach of my team, and I see no positives about publicly berating him, or anyone else involved with the athletic program that are doing everything they can do to make our program better. I know what our record was, our athletic director knows what our record was, our president knows what our record was, our board of regents knows what our record was, our students who care about basketball know what our record was.

I just see no point in blindly posting and spewing all of this hatred.

Coach Benford and his staff are going to do everything possible to make this program into something special. They know better than anyone what is going to happen if they fail. Why not get behind them and support them?

Andrew · March 13, 2013

Amen!

Army of Dad · March 13, 2013

I guess I am just different. I am not saying that this season was not a failure. This season was a complete failure. We underachieved. I talked this thing up for the entire football season. Then I traveled with my wife to Manhattan Kansas and watched us get beat by a division II team????

I am just saying that Tony Benford is the coach of my team, and I see no positives about publicly berating him, or anyone else involved with the athletic program that are doing everything they can do to make our program better. I know what our record was, our athletic director knows what our record was, our president knows what our record was, our board of regents knows what our record was, our students who care about basketball know what our record was.

I just see no point in blindly posting and spewing all of this hatred.

Coach Benford and his staff are going to do everything possible to make this program into something special. They know better than anyone what is going to happen if they fail. Why not get behind them and support them?

You acknowledge this staff is a complete failure (yes,after one season) then go on to say they know what is going to happen if they fail. I think that's the issue some are driving at here. They know nothing is going to happen until after half (or more) of the fan base is driven off after three or four years of this. They know their jobs are safe, even after they squandered the best chance for UNT to become relevant in a major sport in a very long time.

Just wait until next season (for failure to be punished). Trouble is it could well be another season after that or the one after that. As much as people bitch about bitching and it hurting recruiting how the hell does that come anywhere close to getting beat down by ULM (twice!) and losing to a DII school. Top notch players will want to come here and be associated with that? Top notch players will see how Tony Mitchell's draft stock dropped (or least failed to improve). That's far worse than someone seeing a negative post on a message board.

UNT90 · March 13, 2013

I guess I am just different. I am not saying that this season was not a failure. This season was a complete failure. We underachieved. I talked this thing up for the entire football season. Then I traveled with my wife to Manhattan Kansas and watched us get beat by a division II team????

I am just saying that Tony Benford is the coach of my team, and I see no positives about publicly berating him, or anyone else involved with the athletic program that are doing everything they can do to make our program better. I know what our record was, our athletic director knows what our record was, our president knows what our record was, our board of regents knows what our record was, our students who care about basketball know what our record was.

I just see no point in blindly posting and spewing all of this hatred.

Coach Benford and his staff are going to do everything possible to make this program into something special. They know better than anyone what is going to happen if they fail. Why not get behind them and support them?

Because we are the same program that kept Todd Dodge around for almost a full year after he should have been fired.

Because we are the same program that has made questionable hires in all major sports in the last six years.

Because this coach promised to improve defense and rebounding. Stated that was his focus on pre-season. This team was horribly inconsistent at both and arguably worse than we were last year. And that was this coach's focus? Please don't focus on shooting this off-season, coach.

Fan boards are where people come to talk sports. At UNT, talking sports IS bitching about them, because we have been pretty terrible at everything for a pretty long time. When the one bright light appears to be dark again, at the moment when everyone expected it to shine the brightest, do you honestly expect everyone on this board to stand behind this coach? A coach that would have been gone to a bigger program if he had gotten this team to a sweet 16 berth?

That is asking a whole lot, don't you think?

untbowler · March 13, 2013

People really need to open their eyes about the Petersen hire. By many accounts, he was fixing to be fired by Wake Forest, and WF sure as hell didn't put a lot of effort into keeping him or else he would still be there. His body of work is really not that impressive and is right around .500, which is better than McCarney though...He won less games than KA with more talent. I don't dislike Petersen and like how involved he is in the games, but can we please stop acting like we went into Winston-Salem (or wherever the heck WF is) and strong armed a gem of a coach away from them. Reality sucks sometimes.
There were so, so many options other than Petersen that we could have picked up who had records of overwhelming success. Matt Daniel at Central Arkansas probably the most no-brainer of them. Oh well, I'll keep the faith.

Just par for the course in most of the recent hires overlook the obvious choice to go with the comfortable choice.

oldguystudent · March 13, 2013

I just came for the beer and ribs.

Greendylan · March 13, 2013

I guess I am just different. I am not saying that this season was not a failure. This season was a complete failure. We underachieved. I talked this thing up for the entire football season. Then I traveled with my wife to Manhattan Kansas and watched us get beat by a division II team????

I am just saying that Tony Benford is the coach of my team, and I see no positives about publicly berating him, or anyone else involved with the athletic program that are doing everything they can do to make our program better. I know what our record was, our athletic director knows what our record was, our president knows what our record was, our board of regents knows what our record was, our students who care about basketball know what our record was.

I just see no point in blindly posting and spewing all of this hatred.

Coach Benford and his staff are going to do everything possible to make this program into something special. They know better than anyone what is going to happen if they fail. Why not get behind them and support them?

I respect your point of view in this statement above. In truth, I used to routinely avoid making negative comments because of the obvious concerns with impugning one's own alma mater. In the past I did personally email RV as opposed to publicly voicing my concerns. However, in this particular case, I feel that the damage to our basketball program is already so severe that public criticism is necessary--anything really to pressure those with decision-making abilities to see the situation as it actually stands. Also, I think any collateral damage to our athletic department's reputation through public criticism of one particular head coach is moot because we have probably already lost all credibility with potential recruits, new donors, fans, etc. by touting our "greatest team ever" and then turning out to be one of the worst teams in the nation. Praising and supporting the return of the aforementioned head coach would be the ultimate signal of surrender by this athletic department. It would essentially be saying, "We have no standards here. Success really isn't that important to us and probably isn't even attainable, so just sit back and enjoy barely competing at a Division One level." Additionally, as I've said before, I don't think it's fair to Tony Benford to make the guy endure another season or two that will assuredly destroy his coaching career. Maybe it isn't entirely his fault that he didn't succeed this past season. In fact, that's certainly a plausibility. However, I did not see ANY evidence of progress throughout the year. Loss to a Division II team, 0-5 vs. Louisiana-Monroe/Lafayette (four of those losses by double digits, including a blowout in the first round of the SBC tournament). We were 3-14 against Division I teams with a better than 200 RPI. We didn't just fail to achieve our goals this season; we failed about as badly as it is possible to fail in almost every way imaginable, and we concluded the campaign by being obliterated by a team with a 221 RPI. And, if you look at when the losses occurred, there really isn't any realistic way to blame the injuries. So, please, can anyone honestly say that we are headed in the right direction? I mean, next year could be better (It will mostly likely be far, far worse once we lose an NBA quality player), but why should we settle for just better than terrible when we never should have been in a rebuilding process in the first place?

I don't doubt that Coach Benford and his staff will do everything within their abilities "to make this program into something special." Based on the evidence I saw this past season, however, he and his staff do not have the ability to succeed at this university. If he had a record of success as a head coach elsewhere, then I would give him more time, but such a line does not exist on his resume. I REALLY hope that I'm wrong. It's possible. But it's also possible, given our history, that we will dedicate ourselves to the ideas of "hope," "next year," "potential," and "some day"...and all of this will end up sinking our basketball program to the bottom dregs of Division One. We're almost there already (RPI of 255), and another year under the same leadership and without Tony Mitchell could drop us into the 300s. If that happens, the best case scenario would be that we would then hire an amazing coach who over the course of the next 5 or 6 years would try to mend our ailing recruiting pipelines and maybe, with a lot of luck, get us to a winning record in CUSA within the next decade. Sound extreme? Take a look at football: The MAJORITY of Division One teams make a bowl game each year, and we haven't been to one in eight years.

Again, I REALLY hope that I'm wrong. I'm not privy to any inside information, and if there are crucial details that I don't know that are causing me to speak out of turn, then I apologize. I'm also open to alternative opinions, and if anyone can explain to me what about this season suggests future success, I'm willing to listen. To say, "what's the harm in giving it one more year?" is a mistake, I believe, in this case. First, another horrible year would COMPLETELY erase any success we had under JJ, assuming we haven't already squandered all our reputation points from two relatively recent NCAA tournament appearances and several consecutive 20-win seasons. Second, I don't see the logic in continuing something that is almost certain to fail, at great cost, just because it could theoretically, by some miracle, work. By that rationale, why ever fire anyone? I mean, there's always a chance that any given coach will suddenly "get it" and figure out how to win. One season is not a large sample size, but it was probably the best opportunity we could have given a new head coach: returning NBA first-round draft pick caliber player, pretty much all the starters returning, regular finishes in the conference championship game, preseason rankings somewhere in the vicinity of 25-75 (some higher). If he couldn't succeed under those circumstances, then why will it work next year? Many mid-major coaches go their whole careers without having a Tony Mitchell. We could give Benford 30 more years, and he would likely not have that much talent to work with again. So, even if he tremendously improves as a coach, that might still only get us back to the same record we had this season.

This isn't about "hatred." I have nothing personally against Benford, RV, or anyone else in the athletic department. In fact, I'm quite sure they are all good, decent people. I just don't want to see another 5,6,7,8, or more years go by with our athletic program having been rendered completely irrelevant even in our own state. What if we continue to finish below .500 in football? What if basketball becomes the perennial cellar dweller of CUSA? We will lose SO many thousands of alumni who will come and go without having a single iota of pride in UNT athletics. That means that we will suffer mightily on the fundraising front long after the current leaders of our school and athletic department have retired or otherwise moved on.

We stand to lose so much respect in the eyes of recruits, high school coaches, donors, alumni, students, and college basketball fans in general if we accept the results of this season with anything other than outrage.

MeanGreenTexan · March 13, 2013

I think the public criticism is COMPLETELY JUST. We were poised for greatness and, had Johnny been here, we would have attained it. Instead we got probably the worst let-down I've ever experienced as a Mean Green fan. More of a let-down than those wild, lopsided Tulsa/Rice games.

But if any of you are thinking that words here will influence Rick to remove Benford, you're mistaken.

You can take Fly's info as gospel.

Edited March 13, 2013 by MeanGreenTexan

Andrew · March 13, 2013

You think if Johnny were here we would have won the belt? We might have reached 20 wins but I am not sure about winning the belt... Honestly middle should have won it. But hey at least they were not just getting money to be dumped back into the belt.... Assuming they do not get a bid now.

MeanGreenTexan · March 13, 2013

Andrew, on 13 Mar 2013 - 16:57, said:
You think if Johnny were here we would have won the belt? We might have reached 20 wins but I am not sure about winning the belt... Honestly middle should have won it. But hey at least they were not just getting money to be dumped back into the belt.... Assuming they do not get a bid now.

You know, Middle is really good. They'll get an NIT invite and I bet they do well there.

I think we would have won the belt with Johnny here, yes.

With Walton/Holmen/Patton out and CJ hurt for a while, it would have been more difficult than anticipated, and we may not have ended the season with a better conference record than 1-loss MT, but JJ's teams ALWAYS overachieved in the SBC tourney.

But, alas, it didn't turn out that way.

GoMeanGreen1999 · March 14, 2013

I think the public criticism is COMPLETELY JUST. We were poised for greatness and, had Johnny been here, we would have attained it. Instead we got probably the worst let-down I've ever experienced as a Mean Green fan. More of a let-down than those wild, lopsided Tulsa/Rice games.
But if any of you are thinking that words here will influence Rick to remove Benford, you're mistaken.
You can take Fly's info as gospel.

Benford will be here at the very least 3 seasons.

Edited March 14, 2013 by GoMeanGreen1999

CMJ · March 14, 2013

RV has had many successes under his watch. He's also had numerous setbacks. The topic of the Athletic Department the quality (or lack thereof) of its employees was a major topic of conversation in Hot Springs. Let me say this, I think his ledger is slightly more positive than negative at this point, but his last six hires in the major sports are dubious at best. His account is quickly losing the goodwill he built up and he needs to not only fire Benford but hope that his replacement gets this turned back around quick.

UNT90 · March 14, 2013

Benford will be here at the very least 3 seasons.

And I won't be a season ticket holder for 2 of them.

If we win less than 10 next year and still bring him back, I may just have to consider doing better things with my time than waste it on UNT sports.

GoMeanGreen1999 · March 14, 2013

And I won't be a season ticket holder for 2 of them.

If we win less than 10 next year and still bring him back, I may just have to consider doing better things with my time than waste it on UNT sports.

My fear is we are going to be in a stretch now of bad in both major sports for at least another two seasons. I just don't see UNT firing Benford without 2 more seasons under his belt and I don't see more than 4 wins this year for football. This was my first season in a while to get back to buying basketball season tickets. I won't buy them next year.

Edited March 14, 2013 by GoMeanGreen1999

Rudy · March 14, 2013

John Wooden? If he thinks Benford did a good job, then he must think JJ is Jesus Christ himself.

Nah, Christ wouldn't have left the cupboard sooooo bare as JJ did. :glare:

I just came for the beer and ribs.

Well get drunk on beer cause next year will be a kick to the ribs. Every game.

UNTexas · March 14, 2013

Nah, Christ wouldn't have left the cupboard sooooo bare as JJ did.

Well get drunk on beer cause next year will be a kick to the ribs. Every game.

We are going to get crushed in Conference USA...

oldguystudent · March 14, 2013

I learned the hard way during the reign of Southlake Asshat that it is very, very verboten to make public criticisms of coaching staffs here at ole' UNT. Later, this past season, I made what I thought was a passing, innocuous remark about the other team scoring against us effortlessly, for which I received a bit of an, um, reprimand from a nearby offensive player's mother. Bottom line, when in Denton, speaking criticism of the green, its players, its coaching staff, its parking, its available food choices, the weather, the structural soundness of the fraternity houses, the decisions of Lee Jackson, all of them, absolutely forbidden.

I also learned that beer tasted just as good at home on a Saturday afternoon as it did sitting on a cold, metal bench watching the arrogant tomfoolery, surrounded by the high school sushi crowd and the ardent supporters of all things green.

Now, I'm not advocating pulling your dollars or anything. Nope. But I've come up with this formula for myself to keep myself sane in times of turmoil. I give the money that I give. UNT was good to me, and I am committed to giving back to it. My dollars aren't going to change, but when fecal matter hits the turbines, I'm not going to waste my entertainment hours holding in opinions. Life's too short to fight that battle, and it saves me the time and hassle of enduring yet another night at the Royale Inn.

Go mean green, I'll see all of you in the fall, and I will most certainly see you for first pitch, whenever that may be. As for basketball, even when we were mopping the super pit floor with the Sun Belt under Johnny, meh, still basketball. So when we become the mopped, I'm just not interested. Not mad, not critical, not pointing fingers, just plain disinterested.

(FTR, Denton is still the go to place on the weekends when the kid and I don't have any other concrete plans, even when there is no UNT events. We love hanging out on the square and stuffing her full of Beth Marie's. )

emmitt01 · March 14, 2013

And I won't be a season ticket holder for 2 of them.

If we win less than 10 next year and still bring him back, I may just have to consider doing better things with my time than waste it on UNT sports.

And this is the part the apologists don't get. You and I, and the 2,000 who are masochists like us, will show up next season for NT basketball and football. It's the hundreds of thousands in Denton County alone and several million in DFW who look at NT, the consistent hiring blunders, and shrug us off as "same ol' NT".

We can build all the practice facilities, stadiums, ballparks and center hung scoreboards that we want. If we can't put butts in the seats (anyone EVER got a straight answer on season tickets or MGC membership? Was it at the last quarterly meeting that I missed?) then it is all for naught. Name the last promotions idea that made you stand up and say "wow!" Sunglasses maybe...an idea straight off of this board. But hey, our games "sell themselves".

The things I've heard concerning the "success" of some of our fundraising alone make me sigh.

This thing is STRUCTURALLY broken. I'm sure the usual suspects will now rush to their -1 buttons to protect the current regime because they somehow feel like they are part of the "inner circle" and telling the emperor that he is, indeed, naked would be to fall out of lock step.

Edited March 14, 2013 by emmitt01

UNT90 · March 14, 2013

And this is the part the apologists don't get. You and I, and the 2,000 who are masochists like us, will show up next season for NT basketball and football. It's the hundreds of thousands in Denton County alone and several million in DFW who look at NT, the consistent hiring blunders, and shrug us off as "same ol' NT".
We can build all the practice facilities, stadiums, ballparks and center hung scoreboards that we want. If we can't put butts in the seats (anyone EVER got a straight answer on season tickets or MGC membership? Was it at the last quarterly meeting that I missed?) then it is all for naught. Name the last promotions idea that made you stand up and say "wow!" Sunglasses maybe...an idea straight off of this board. But hey, our games "sell themselves".
The things I've heard concerning the "success" of some of our fundraising alone make me sigh.
This thing is STRUCTURALLY broken. I'm sure the usual suspects will now rush to their -1 buttons to protect the current regime because they somehow feel like they are part of the "inner circle" and telling the emperor that he is, indeed, naked would be to fall out of lock step.

I doubt you'll see me at the pit much next year unless something is done this month to fix this. I'll go back to my pre-2008 days and maybe make a couple of home games (UTEP for sure).

I'll get serious when UNT gets serious.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · March 14, 2013

Look, OU and Texas complain about Bob Stoops and Mack Brown. Indiana and Texas Tech both eventually gave up on Bob Knight.

Every coach everywhere is on the hot seat for one reason or another at some point. We don't taste much sporting success as UNT alumni. But, what are you going to do?

I'm sure there is a healthy faction of UT fans unhappy with Rick Barnes these days. Look over at "The Hill." Ol' coach Brown's Mustangs took a first round dive in the C-USA, and that after a season that petered out quickly once C-USA ball kicked in.

Benford, he's not great. Marquette had some basketball success while he was on the staff. RV rolled the dice in the right direction. The problem is, you just never know if a guy is going to work.

And, you know what, when we broaden the topic to football, I'm not sure really what the answer is. I used to be a firm believer in hiring experience. But, after two seasons, I really don't see a significant change in the competitiveness in our football program. I respect Dan McCarney for what he did at Iowa State, considering the competition.

The Sun Belt is not competitive in football. I'm disappointed that the recruiting hasn't been better. I'm disappointed that the wins haven't come sooner. And, the competition isn't getting easier next season.

I'm truly at the point of not caring much anymore again. Benford could stay or go. McCarney could stay or go. I've set my bar at: as long as they are doing well in the classroom and children aren't being molested, we're doing something right. And, doing the right thing never works in big time college athletics.

Don't believe me...run a drug test over at TCU. You pay a price for selling your soul.

If we ever become consistent winner, I hope and pray we become the only instituion to do it without ending up on the front pages because of marijuana busts, sexual assualts, and the like. Yes, I'm completely stupid for believing it can be done because it can't be done.

So, I just enjoy what we have. A pretty clean little program in all areas.

As disjointed as my post is, it's as good a time as any to make the annual plea for RV to hire Kathy McConnell Miller...if not as the women's basketball coach, something. If we're going to lose and be nice, can we at least have something decent to look at besides the "action" on the field/court?

We won't win at football because we don't understand yet the importance of a defensive line. So, let McConnell Miller coach special teams. Why not? Teams will be running roughshod over us anyway. Our kick returners can't do any worse under her than they did with the guy Arkansas State wisely stole from us. And, then, let her be an assistance on the men's and women's basketball program when football season ends. It can hurt nothing.

Edited March 14, 2013 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

ColoradoEagle · March 15, 2013

RV has had many successes under his watch. He's also had numerous setbacks. The topic of the Athletic Department the quality (or lack thereof) of its employees was a major topic of conversation in Hot Springs. Let me say this, I think his ledger is slightly more positive than negative at this point, but his last six hires in the major sports are dubious at best. His account is quickly losing the goodwill he built up and he needs to not only fire Benford but hope that his replacement gets this turned back around quick.

This athletic department has never done anything but the bare minimum. The last straw for me was a couple years ago when billboards went up for the new stadium, obviously designed by the same inept designers of all our other marketing material, where "Mean Green" was completely illegible from more than a few feet away. Even when we finally had the funds to do something to get the name out there even a little bit, they couldn't be bothered to spend more than a few minutes in Photoshop.

They can't hire, we know that for sure. But add on top of that they can't market or advertise, fundraise, or sell tickets. They miss opportunities to make money and provide a fun environment for fans. Instead of trying to swell community support by sending someone out to local businesses, they expect those businesses to come to them, etc.

Living in Ft. Worth, I see TCU everywhere. I was honestly shocked. A lot of that is going to be due to TCU being incredibly successful in football, sure. On the other hand, there's a lot more to it than that. I'll see schedules, posters, uniforms, apparel, you name it at restaurants and other businesses, and I'm practically in Keller. Not once in Denton did I feel like UNT's reach went beyond the square outside of Rudy's, and sometimes even then it was lacking. Some of it is about winning, but a lot of it is about effort and persistence.

Point of the post is that this athletic department is not a quality department. I'm sure there are some people doing their jobs or even going above and beyond, but from the outside looking in, the organization as a whole appears to do the bare minimum. RV took over the program 12 years ago, and outside of a student-funded stadium, we're not much better off today than we were when he first started. We had some level of success under Dickey and Johnny, but JJ won more games in his first year than Benford, and DD had the same record in RV's first year as McCarney did in 2012 without having to beat an FCS team to get there.

I'm just tired of this department getting a pass and defended to the death by this board when there's not a single thing that we can point to in recent history that shows improvement. We haven't won a bowl game since 2002 and we've still yet to advance in the NCAA tournament. Doesn't look to change anytime soon on our current trajectory.

Edited March 15, 2013 by ColoradoEagle

oldguystudent · March 15, 2013

This is the most brilliant portion of any post in this entire thread. I stand tall at full mast in support of it.

MeanMag · March 15, 2013

We can do better. Hire Stacy Johnson-Klein or anyone from the Fresno State women's basketball staff.

Of course then, we'll open ourselves to lawsuit and fan restraining orders.

Greendylan · March 15, 2013

I doubt you'll see me at the pit much next year unless something is done this month to fix this. I'll go back to my pre-2008 days and maybe make a couple of home games (UTEP for sure).
I'll get serious when UNT gets serious.

Out of the 124 current athletic programs that field BCS (Division IA) football in addition to men's and women's basketball, only North Texas, South Alabama, and New Mexico State have had neither a bowl appearance nor a basketball postseason win (NCAA or NIT) since 2004. South Alabama hasn't really had a chance yet in football, and they did receive an at-large NCAA bid during that span, which we never have. New Mexico State had three NCAA appearances to our two during the past eight years.

Granted, this is only one way of measuring athletic department performance, and I'm kind of arbitrarily picking a year for obvious reasons. Furthermore, I'm neglecting all other sports. Still, I think the facts above show why some of us are starting to get really frustrated with futility in the major sports--especially now that it looks like we're married to a men's basketball coach who may sink the program for years to come, if he's allowed to continue.