How far up do YOU think we can move?

[GrayEagle]

We won't ever pass the four Big 12 teams unless and until we become part of them. Even then that would take a long time. Same is true for Texas A&M. We'd have to have a meteoric rise and SMU and Houston fall on hard times to make the NT job more attractive than those two. That puts us at #8 to battle with Rice. They're ahead but since we don't have to have geniuses for recruits we could catch them soon.

We should have been ahead of UTEP instead of one behind. UTEP has a larger stadium and better attendance but the rest belong to North Texas.

[Harry]

"If I were recruiting against UNT, I would hand the recruit a paper with this site address and say, "Here kid, look at this. You want to be a part of that." I would never lose a recruit to UNT."

Actually I would pull out a copy of our won/loss record from this season...

I think pinpointing the "negativity" depends on when you look at the site. Had you looked at this site prior to the showdown with Creighton you would have had a tremendous recruiting tool...optimism was in heavy supply at that particular time and probably a year prior with the addition of Tony Mitchell.. of course with the disappointing season we had it took the wind out of our sails. And that's not just this site, even national publications have picked up on disappointments of this season in comparison to the expectations.

So yes winning and losing does have an affect on the opinions of a fan base -- A LOT. Take a look at the A&M sites before Johnny Football and after...there's a big difference in the mood. This program needs some good news - we need some successes to point to. I'm a fan, and I am very disappointed about the way this basketball season turned out. Have I given up on Benford, heck no -- I actually think he will be ok and the program will rebound under him but I'm not going to ignore what transpired on the court this season and my disappointment about it. Do I agree with those calling for Benford's head -- no I don't but they have the right to their opinion.

This site is all about fans and their opinions. The 100% positive market is cornered by the official UNT site. I think an open, honest dialogue about where the athletic programs stand is a good thing. I also think criticism can also be constructive and communicated in a more positive way. I was around when there was very little said at all and let me tell you that type of apathy is much much worse...

These kids that grew up in the internet age have a lot thicker skin than you might think...spend a little time on twitter and you will see what I mean. And believe me, every program - even the best programs in the country could pull negativity off their fan message boards...it's just the nature of the beast.

I will say this, we have a hardcore group of very loyal fans who have gone through some very difficult seasons in our major sports so I am very hesitant to cast any stones at them. I do wish sometimes that they would espouse their opinions in a more reasonable way. In the end, I much prefer them taking the time to voice a well thought out criticism than to not care enough to give it the time of day.

[DentonTechsan]

I think at some point we will be UNT-Denton, and it could be near...

With the UNT/UNTHSC merger, we'll see a rebranding of the campuses (i.e., UNT at Denton, UNT at Fort Worth). It'd be odd to have the "University of North Texas at Denton School of Public Health" located in Fort Worth.

There's no reason UNT can't become the #1 team in North Texas, and the state. Abilene Christian, Boise State, Sam Houston State, TCU, and Utah all became recognized programs after sustaining runs winning against "lesser" teams. In the Southland, Big West, and Sunbelt, UNT has had the opportunity to do the same thing and will again in C-USA.

[untjim1995]

Why don't our chances look great, GrandGreen?

If you took every coach, sans Fry, since 1970, they all combined to produce a cumulative record of 90-187 at the I-A (FBS) level, for a .325 winning pct.

I think this is what he's looking at...

Edited February 28, 2013 by untjim1995

[untjim1995]

I have come to this forum pretty much since the beginning. I honestly believe that we NT fans are about as down and depressed as I have ever seen here.

I remember the excitement in the 80's from moving to 1AA to 1A. After some apathetic times in the 90's, we had the Sun Belt winning streak in FB. Even during the TD years, we had the stadium to get excited about. And, the mens BB program was consistently winning 20+ games. Recently, we finally get the CUSA bid we have all been waiting for, only to see some of the important CUSA teams bolt and get replaced by our former peers (and some that were never even on the radar......UTSA).

Our athletic programs need a quick jolt in a major, major way right now. Apathy is setting in again and that is a thing worse than anger IMO.

There is still a lot to be proud of as we all know. To me, getting new facilities funded and built is more difficult than hiring the right coaches. The latter can be a quick fix. The former can take a decade or more as we found out.

We are also due our share of luck. I feel like the injury Gods have been more than unfair to NT over the last 5 years. Maybe we catch a break and our FB team can overachieve this coming season. This program needs some momentum to build from.....ANY momentum.

To the athletes and coaches on our sports teams, we have your back and will be cheering. But, your school needs your full dedication and effort right now. You guys can help kick-start some great things at UNT. We don't expect you to go out and win the CUSA West this coming FB season. Make us proud. Give it your best and please find a way to pull out some wins (5 or 6 would be nice).

I think that a winning season in CUSA would help us to at least get back on track for recruiting. It will take several winning seasons to get a solid fanbase increase in season tickets and attendance. But I don't think we will ever be able to pass the Big XII/SEC schools in this state, nor do I see us passing the Big East schools in the next 25 years. They have waaaayyyyy too big of a headstart on our program, from a money standpoint and a success standpoint. Everyone knows of the old SWC schools, even little ol' Rice. Our main competition right now is UTEP, a school with some advantages over ours in support and market share, but a huge disadvantage in location of that market. If we can surpass UTEP on this foodchain over the course of the next 5 years, then that would be progress. Maybe that means we have passed RIce, too. But, one thing it should definitely mean is that that UTSA and TX State haven't passed us by.

If either of those two newbies pass us by in W/L records over the next 5 years, we should just quit FBS football--I mean it. That would tell me that playing in the Southland Conference again is really the place for this university's football program, if somehow one of those teams from that level of play can move up and pass us by within that short of time. For me, this next 5 years is very important for my fandom here. I need to see something tangible in terms of becoming a winner and helping to sustain that. When a fan like Emmitt, one of the very few that has shown to really care about this place, posts that his conscience has caught up to him about selling the MGC to other alumni due to the lack of results and support by the university, that should tell you a lot.

If we turn this around in the next few years--say we get back to .500--and McCarney retired, hypothetically, we had better see the university do something 180 degrees different from what they just did with Johnny Jones replacement. I'm telling you that this anger from the remaining diehards here is not far from becoming apathy within the next few years. If you start losing those of us who have been faithfully following this program over the last 20+ years, only to continue to see mostly bottom of the barrel results, its gonna get ugly. If you are a UNT alum that graduated in 1970 or later, in most of your lifetime, you have seen some of the worst football seasons imagianble, except for 4 of Fry's years here and I guess 4 years of Dickeyball. That's 8 years out of 43 seasons. Not even counting the ridiculous i-aa years that nearly killed what was left of this program, our average w/l record since the black man was allowed to play anywhere he could is a robust 4 wins and 7 losses. Its because of this, that I truly believe that there has never been a fanbase that deserved at least a few years of winning seasons more than this one...

[shaft]

#1 Texas

#13 Texas A&M

#32 TCU

#41 Texas Tech

#51 Baylor

#66 Houston

#74 SMU

#94 UTEP

#95 North Texas

#113 Rice

#118 UTSA

#119 Texas State

I want to play in that conference.

[UNTLifer]

5-7

4-8

Not selling out a new stadium.

This isn't criticism, it's just the lay of the land currently (or until proven otherwise).

Thanks GrandGreen.

[Green Dozer]

We are a sleeping giant!

[NT03]

We are a sleeping giant!

We put Rip Van Winkle to shame

[emmitt01]

Thanks GrandGreen.

That's racist.

[GrandGreen]

Why don't our chances look great, GrandGreen?

Well, how about the last eight years results and being perennially at bottom or near bottom of Texas recruiting ratings.

I am not without hope, but NT would be favored right now to win 2 or 3 games next year. Certainly, that could be wrong; but frankly most of those ranking have been very accurate about NT since their fall in football.

I think NT very well may improve but I cannot think of anyway in the world to portray NT chances as great.

[untjim1995]

Well, how about the last eight years results and being perennially at bottom or near bottom of Texas recruiting ratings.

I am not without hope, but NT would be favored right now to win 2 or 3 games next year. Certainly, that could be wrong; but frankly most of those ranking have been very accurate about NT since their fall in football.

I think NT very well may improve but I cannot think of anyway in the world to portray NT chances as great.

This is how I feel, for the most part. There are reasons to believe that the future should be brighter than the current malaise, but many generations of fans here have probably thought the same thing, too. These next few years have to be better. What I fear is that McCarney gets fired and we never go back to hiring an experienced head coach and pay him a competitive salary for a university of our size. We would probably go back to hiring an assistant coach that costs about $350k per year and is learning on the job. LIterally the only coach here who has sustained winning was an experienced head coach before he got here--Hayden Fry. No one else, except for McCarney, has fit that bill since Fry left.