Coaching legend has earned Mean Green’s respect

[UNT90]

Saying this is a mistake hire is as knee jerk as it gets. I will agree that the record is trending the wrong way. But I can't say that it was a mistake hire. 20 wins and a postseason bid next year. More wins the following year and a 11 to 14 seed in the tournament. That is where the bar is set. But this year cannot be the judge of this hire.

So why is this year the exception? When the athletic department themselves said this is the most talented team in UNT history? Are you saying we hired a head coach who needed a year to learn how to be a head coach? If so, there is a huge problem with the person or people making the hire, because you don't hire someone you have to train to be a head coach when "the most talented team in UNT history" is returning for said coach's 1st year.

Or are you saying we are just too poor and have to hope for the best?

[Army of Dad]

I hear you Emmitt - that's why year 3 of the "Mac Plan" is so critical. His first year we saw an IMMEDIATE bump in wins as compared to Dodge. Year 2 was a step back in terms of record but also probably the best Belt year in terms of strength ever. Year 3 and this is no longer Mac trying to make due with Dodge's program and players. Scholarship numbers are back up -- we have a redshirt class coming in with numbers unlike we've EVER seen since the return to IA. We have a strength and conditioning program that is light years above what we have ever had. We have a quarterback prospect with higher rankings than we have EVER had -- certainly he is unproven at this level and hasn't played in two years but the "reports" from his scout team play are encouraging. With a few exceptions, the entire team from last year is back this year. We landed some immediate impact transfers who will be with us in spring training.

Year 3 is the key for me. I am optimistic that we will see clear progress and if not we will need to re-evaluate things.

All of wish is fine since you have I take into account the state of the football program when Mac got here. If you account for the state of the men's basketball program when Benford got here then firing is the only appropriate response in my opinion. This program looks to be destroyed as the result of his hire at worst and at best the positive momentum is destroyed. Benford had the players needed to win at this level and he has failed in spectacular fashion. Mac didn't have the players and his results are judged with that in mind.

[Green P1]

So why is this year the exception? When the athletic department themselves said this is the most talented team in UNT history? Are you saying we hired a head coach who needed a year to learn how to be a head coach?

That's exactly what he's saying.

[flyonthewall]

I am saying that if the guy coaching in Baton Rouge would have been here, and the first game of the season our only outside threat breaks his foot, we would have this odah as a center instead of coleman. PJ Hardwick would not be here, insert another back up guard. maybe we have 4 more wins and 4 less losses. But you can make the arguement that there would be a number of people that would be calling for MY GOOD FRIEND JOHNNY JONES job. All theoritcal I know, but you could certainly argue this. I told all of my friends that this was going to be the year. I have egg on face also with all of this. I am made fun of every day at my beloved Denton Country Club about how bad we stink. All of these guys played golf with Johnny when he was here. But here we are. injuries, new system, no shooters.... I can go on and on. Nobody is more dissapointed than me, but here we are. The perfect storm happened in the wrong way, but to condemn the coach is ridiculous. A body of work cannot be judged over 3 months, and I am not going to do it.

[UNT90]

I am saying that if the guy coaching in Baton Rouge would have been here, and the first game of the season our only outside threat breaks his foot, we would have this odah as a center instead of coleman. PJ Hardwick would not be here, insert another back up guard. maybe we have 4 more wins and 4 less losses. But you can make the arguement that there would be a number of people that would be calling for MY GOOD FRIEND JOHNNY JONES job. All theoritcal I know, but you could certainly argue this. I told all of my friends that this was going to be the year. I have egg on face also with all of this. I am made fun of every day at my beloved Denton Country Club about how bad we stink. All of these guys played golf with Johnny when he was here. But here we are. injuries, new system, no shooters.... I can go on and on. Nobody is more dissapointed than me, but here we are. The perfect storm happened in the wrong way, but to condemn the coach is ridiculous. A body of work cannot be judged over 3 months, and I am not going to do it.

Not to nitpick, but Odoh MAY have been here but he wouldn't have been eligible.and besides, we aren't talking about JJ, because he wasn't an option. We are talking about Frashilla (but we wouldn't pay for him because we think small time) or some other EXPERIENCED coach that wasn't Benford.

Edited March 2, 2013 by UNT90

[flyonthewall]

I know for a fact with Fran F. it was not about money. The decision was made that Benford was the better choice, with the package of Evans, Lundy etc coming with him. So everyone is correct, if this turns out to be a huge failure, this falls squarely on Ricks shoulders, and I promise you he takes responsibility for his actions and understands the consequences. He has accomplished every goal he ever set out to at this place, including elevating the basketball program. He is going to bring us baseball, (the renderings of the stadium are beautiful according to Don Lovelace). We have to win in FB, MBB, and WBB. He hired Johnny Jones and had no control over him leaving.

We have a core donor base in place that within reason will make sure hiring coaches will be about the best candidate, not money. This hire was not about money.

[UNT90]

For those who thinks it is about the players, missing Walton, or just not having the talent, keep in mind we took the #14 team in the country, a team that has beaten Butler twice and only lost 2 games in A-10 play, down to the wire at in their arena. Did we benefit because they play a strict man to man on defense? Yes, but it doesn't change what happened. And the game before we lose to LaLa at home because we can't figure out a zone defense and don't play any defense.

Its obvious the talent is present.

Still 2 open scholarships to fill.

[emmitt01]

For those who thinks it is about the players, missing Walton, or just not having the talent, keep in mind we took the #14 team in the country, a team that has beaten Butler twice and only lost 2 games in A-10 play, down to the wire at in their arena. Did we benefit because they play a strict man to man on defense? Yes, but it doesn't change what happened. And the game before we lose to LaLa at home because we can't figure out a zone defense and don't play any defense.

Its obvious the talent is present.

Still 2 open scholarships to fill.

No, it's because the players have finally "bought in" and have given up their hooligan ways.

Nevermind that the "buy in" seems to happen sporadically (with a ULM debacle sprinkled in).

Nevermind that these same players seemed not to be miscreants just last season.

Nope, when we fail just blame 18-20 year olds. When we succeed credit it to the guy who is getting paid to lead this team.

[UNT90]

No, it's because the players have finally "bought in" and have given up their hooligan ways.

Nevermind that the "buy in" seems to happen sporadically (with a ULM debacle sprinkled in).

Nevermind that these same players seemed not to be miscreants just last season.

Nope, when we fail just blame 18-20 year olds. When we succeed credit it to the guy who is getting paid to lead this team.

Inconsistency is a sign of youth and/or poor coaching. But, the thing is, we have been pretty consistently bad, which, with the talent on this team, simply leaves poor coaching.

[Mean Green 93-98]

I know for a fact with Fran F. it was not about money. The decision was made that Benford was the better choice

[UNT90]

I actually understand the decision at the time. Thinking that an assistant who is a great recruiter, has been groomed (supposedly) for a head coaching position, and is bringing two very qualified former head coaches with him would be a better choice than a guy who has been out of the college basketball coaching game for several years is understandable. But, for whatever reasons (and don't give me BS injury excuses) it hasn't worked out.

I don't blame RV for the hire, other than the fact that he promised no more assistants and then immediately goes and hires one. I will blame him if he refuses to do anything about something that has failed so miserably (not that my blame means anything, lol) and is so blatantly a bad fit.

Edited March 3, 2013 by UNT90

[UNT90]

I want a 20 plus win season next year and postseason play. Follow that up with more respect in two years, an NCAA bid at an 11 to 14 seed which gives us a chance to win. That is what I want. Any thing less than that is failure. And I expect the same thing on the women's side too. I will also go on record as saying we must win 7 next year in football. I will agree that all of this momentum in fundraising we have built up will vanish like a fog rolling out if there is no success on the field. I am tired of supporting a loser, even if it is our loser.

1. Give coaches and kids tools to be successfull (aka facilities). This takes money.

2. Hire the right people at every level. This takes money

3. Fund scholarships for student athletes. This takes money

Hope to have a beer with some of you "haters" in hot springs. That includes you emmitt.

David

Just to recap

[flyonthewall]

Well we won nine in football, so i was half right, or half wrong. Still drinking the punch.

[UNT90]

Well we won nine in football, so i was half right, or half wrong. Still drinking the punch.

And you posted after last basketball season that Benford would face consequences if he didn't win this year.

He didn't and he hasn't.

[Ben Gooding]

Well we won nine in football, so i was half right, or half wrong. Still drinking the punch.

Yeah, 9 in football that will quickly be 2 years ago...then 5...then 10...then you'll be sitting there typing "well, we won nine games 10 years ago." Wake up yo.

[flyonthewall]

Reasons to be optimistic about basketball.

1. J-mychal Reese

2. Jeremy Combs

3. Deandre Harris

4. Ricky Brice

5. Ja-Michael Brown

6. Maurice Aneifiok

7. Todd Eaglin

8. Carrington Ward

We beat a team the same year that team won a game in the NCAA tournament. I am not sure that has ever happened. Did we be Western the year that they made the run with Courtney Lee? I don't think so but I could be wrong.

Reasons to be optimistic about football

1. Someone needs to dial 1-800-quarterback, and in the words of Bill Parcells, there is no such number.

So I am more concerned about football than basketball

[UNT90]

Kool aid tastes really good in the morning.

[Harry]

Reasons to be optimistic about basketball.

1. J-mychal Reese

2. Jeremy Combs

3. Deandre Harris

4. Ricky Brice

5. Ja-Michael Brown

6. Maurice Aneifiok

7. Todd Eaglin

8. Carrington Ward

We beat a team the same year that team won a game in the NCAA tournament. I am not sure that has ever happened. Did we be Western the year that they made the run with Courtney Lee? I don't think so but I could be wrong.

Reasons to be optimistic about football

1. Someone needs to dial 1-800-quarterback, and in the words of Bill Parcells, there is no such number.

So I am more concerned about football than basketball

It sounds like we have 2 maybe 3 spots to give depending on TJ's waiver situation.

To me, it all depends on what Benford does with those two spots. We need a banger and a shooter. Benford has not landed a pure shooter since he has been here and he HAS landed a banger with Combs. We need someone who can help Combs grab boards and fill in for him when he gets in foul trouble. I am cautiously optimistic about this team if he can land some quality with these open spots.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Reasons to be optimistic about basketball.

1. J-mychal Reese

2. Jeremy Combs

3. Deandre Harris

4. Ricky Brice

5. Ja-Michael Brown

6. Maurice Aneifiok

7. Todd Eaglin

8. Carrington Ward

We beat a team the same year that team won a game in the NCAA tournament. ...

Are we really playing this game? We also lost to friggin Prairie View A&M on our own floor, and we got run out of the gym in the 1st round of the Conf tourney (hey, at least the mens team MADE the conf tourney though, gotta give 'em credit for that).

...

So I am more concerned about football than basketball

You're more than welcome to your opinion, but my opinion is 540° different.

[flyonthewall]

We beat a team the same year that they won a game in the NCAA tournament. FACT

Quarterback play was terrible last year. FACT

We lost to Southern MIssissippi. FACT

We beat rice twice. FACT

We lost to Prairie View. FACT

We looked totally unprepared and not ready to play in the conference tournament. FACT

Once again, the wife and I loaded up and went to Birmingham and I got kicked squarely in the nuts. Flew in on Wednesday, went to lunch, spent the afternoon drinking in Todd English PUB, walked to the game, spread my legs, and repeatedly got kicked in the nuts for about an hour and a half, walked back to the hotel, had another drink. Begged the hotel to let me out of the next three nights, called American Airlines and payed their communist change fee, went to sleep at midnight, got up at 430 am, boarded a flight which left at 650 a.m. back to work at 11:00 a.m on Thursday. FACT

If you think I like it, you are crazy.

Everything stated above are factual events, well except one is a metaphor.

And yes, I believe after watching this team play, and this staff coach, and the rest of the competition in this conference that we have potential to be very good next year. OPINION

Edited March 23, 2015 by flyonthewall

[Army of Dad]

It sounds like we have 2 maybe 3 spots to give depending on TJ's waiver situation.

To me, it all depends on what Benford does with those two spots. We need a banger and a shooter. Benford has not landed a pure shooter since he has been here and he HAS landed a banger with Combs. We need someone who can help Combs grab boards and fill in for him when he gets in foul trouble. I am cautiously optimistic about this team if he can land some quality with these open spots.

Combs isn't a banger. That role was filled by Voss and I don't think Combs can/will fill that role. Her can definately get to the glass, but he's not built to accept/give that kind of punishment.

[flyonthewall]

I agree, Voss helped combs by being very physical. Gotta home this huge freshman has a mean streak. Not one like Deandre's which requires them to give him a snickers bar to hide his crazy, but just a mean streak.

[UNT90]

Brice will not come in and contribute 10ppg and 5rpg. He is taking a HUGE step up in competition and everyone needs to be patient. - OPINION

And I really like him as a recruit. - FACT

We need a big, and we need one badly. -FACT

We have a head coach who was left a buttload of talent and pissed it away to a 12-20 record. - FACT.

Nothing in this coach's history shows that he will be able to succeed next year- FACT.

Edited March 23, 2015 by UNT90

[Green P1]

Man I wish I could ever in my lifetime afford to give enough to North Texas Athletics to have the benchmarks I set year by year for programs go unmet and still not be pissed. Maybe I'll get there at some point. Gotta keek chasing that American dream!!!!

[10Eagle10]

Allow me to start off by expressing my appreciation to you and your wife for your generous support of our university and its athletic programs. You really are one of my three favorite posters on gmg to read, and I'm always grateful that a BME (big money eagle) is willing to come down here to our favorite message board to mix it up with the rest of us.

Fail in business, get fired. Fail in coaching, get fired way faster.

However, three months cannot define a body of work in this business. So UNT90, you can start shuddering, Benford will coach here at least three years.

This sure seems like a failure. I can't imagine still having my job three years later if I were anywhere near as bad as ol' Benny boy. However, you did warn us that he would be here for at least three years...

A body of work cannot be judged over 3 months, and I am not going to do it.

You mentioned this in two separate posts. I disagree. However, isn't 3 years more than enough?

if this turns out to be a huge failure, this falls squarely on Ricks shoulders, and I promise you he takes responsibility for his actions and understands the consequences. He has accomplished every goal he ever set out to at this place, including elevating the basketball program. He is going to bring us baseball

And there it is, in all it's glory. It "falls squarely on Ricks shoulders." This has been an enormous blunder, the weight of which even Atlas would have an extremely difficult time holding on his shoulders. Rick is no Titan - this failure should have been his undoing; you even put it in print.

I left the last seven words because it's been over 2 years and still no movement on that front...

Reasons to be optimistic about basketball.

1. J-mychal Reese

2. Jeremy Combs

3. Deandre Harris

4. Ricky Brice

5. Ja-Michael Brown

6. Maurice Aneifiok

7. Todd Eaglin

8. Carrington Ward

That right there isn't 8 reasons to keep Benford. If anything, those are the 8 most unambiguous reasons to cut our losses and give the next guy a great starting point...unlike the next women's coach, who was left with almost nothing to rebuild