Meanwhile in Baton Rouge

[untjim1995]

You are beginning to get in your own way...being hyped as the best and actually being so are two different things. Do you always buy into the hype? In all fairness here....most of us did, but not everyone blames the hype.

I don't blame the hype--I blame the person(s) who made the deserved hype become a nightmare. Look, I realize that the players have blame in this, too. So does the guy who chose an assistant with no head coaching experience to lead this "hyped" team. But the head coach has caused this mess--he will get a chance to right the ship, just because we won't buy him out with so many years left on his contract, but I believe that we have jumped ship to the USS Trilli...and we have seen how that has worked out in the past with a unproven assistant that could recruit but couldn't coach X's or O's.

[forevereagle]

Was Karen Aston really that successful here? She had one season and a 15-16 record. Compared to her predecessor, that was great, but I don't know that UT really hired a proven successful coach. Could she have been more successful here? We will never know, but I don't think that her record here was enough to declare her time here a great run.

[Censored by Laurie]

I don't blame the hype--I blame the person(s) who made the deserved hype become a nightmare. Look, I realize that the players have blame in this, too. So does the guy who chose an assistant with no head coaching experience to lead this "hyped" team. But the head coach has caused this mess--he will get a chance to right the ship, just because we won't buy him out with so many years left on his contract, but I believe that we have jumped ship to the USS Trilli...and we have seen how that has worked out in the past with a unproven assistant that could recruit but couldn't coach X's or O's.

Tap the breaks.

[GreenBat]

I don't blame the hype--I blame the person(s) who made the deserved hype become a nightmare. Look, I realize that the players have blame in this, too. So does the guy who chose an assistant with no head coaching experience to lead this "hyped" team. But the head coach has caused this mess--he will get a chance to right the ship, just because we won't buy him out with so many years left on his contract, but I believe that we have jumped ship to the USS Trilli...and we have seen how that has worked out in the past with a unproven assistant that could recruit but couldn't coach X's or O's.

Are we sure about that?

[untjim1995]

Tap the breaks.

Well, Trilli did bring some talent here...maybe Benford can do the same?

[GreenBat]

Well, Trilli did bring some talent here...maybe Benford can do the same?

But with exception of Chris Davis, it was talent that helped other schools like Texas, Okie State and whatever D2 school Dexter Tennell ended up at.

[KRAM1]

I don't blame the hype--I blame the person(s) who made the deserved hype become a nightmare. Look, I realize that the players have blame in this, too. So does the guy who chose an assistant with no head coaching experience to lead this "hyped" team. But the head coach has caused this mess--he will get a chance to right the ship, just because we won't buy him out with so many years left on his contract, but I believe that we have jumped ship to the USS Trilli...and we have seen how that has worked out in the past with a unproven assistant that could recruit but couldn't coach X's or O's.

Jim, appreciate your comments, but don't buy the "stuff" that several folks here are trying to sell you regarding what this Coach is and where this program can be in a couple of years. Remember, these are the same folks who have been telling everyone that attendance would drop to 500 per game. Yet, facts are, UNT has the 3rd highest attendance in the Sunbelt this year...behind only Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee. The majority of UNT fans and supporters are not buying what these few, loud and vocal that they may be, are trying to sell. There is a difference between ability and execution, youth and experience, willingness to learn and to be coached and stubbornness, athleticism and skill, etc. things are changing and changing for the better. Pre-season hype does not always equate to reality when play begins. This is not the same team that came one game from winning the tournament last season. Odufawa is not grabbing rebounds, UNT's two most skilled players, CJ and Brandon have been out most the year, Holman (arguably the best UNT player heading into last year's tournament is gone, etc., etc. Put a healthy CJ in, a healthy Walton in, have Holman back in uniform, etc., etc. and this is a very different team at this point in the season. All who refuse to see this possibility are simply not willing to admit the differences. Without these players, teams can sag down and pretty much negate TM knowing that UNT is not a good outside shooting team. Now that PJ has started to shoot and Jordan has found his stride, teams will no longer be able to focus on TM with two or more defenders. This also helps Roger Franklin. Defense has suffered as without the skill players and many playing out of position (ala Nikko) there is not the quickness/skill to stop other teams more skilled players. Get "our guys" back and healthy, give these players more time in the current system, and BINGO...this is a much different team. One might also recall that this is a very young team...sophomores and freshmen abound. Underclassmen often struggle at learning the more sophisticated college game. Anyway, don't let the vocal few get you down. No matter how much they played in HS and claim to be experts. Heck, some never even played HS ball, yet want all to believe tat they know all there is about coaching college level basketball.

You know, it may be time to either support this team and Coach or not. The fact is that he and the majority of the team will be back next season. Some just need to either get over that fact or move on down the road if it is just too painful for them to bear. The facts are that this team has not won the number of games that anyone expected. But, the fact also remains that this team has much left to play for this season. Personally, I plan on being there to see how the season plays out...win or lose. Here's hoping there will be more wins left than losses.

[emmitt01]

Jim, appreciate your comments, but don't buy the "stuff" that several folks here are trying to sell you regarding what this Coach is and where this program can be in a couple of years. Remember, these are the same folks who have been telling everyone that attendance would drop to 500 per game. Yet, facts are, UNT has the 3rd highest attendance in the Sunbelt this year...behind only Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee. The majority of UNT fans and supporters are not buying what these few, loud and vocal that they may be, are trying to sell. There is a difference between ability and execution, youth and experience, willingness to learn and to be coached and stubbornness, athleticism and skill, etc. things are changing and changing for the better. Pre-season hype does not always equate to reality when play begins. This is not the same team that came one game from winning the tournament last season. Odufawa is not grabbing rebounds, UNT's two most skilled players, CJ and Brandon have been out most the year, Holman (arguably the best UNT player heading into last year's tournament is gone, etc., etc. Put a healthy CJ in, a healthy Walton in, have Holman back in uniform, etc., etc. and this is a very different team at this point in the season. All who refuse to see this possibility are simply not willing to admit the differences. Without these players, teams can sag down and pretty much negate TM knowing that UNT is not a good outside shooting team. Now that PJ has started to shoot and Jordan has found his stride, teams will no longer be able to focus on TM with two or more defenders. This also helps Roger Franklin. Defense has suffered as without the skill players and many playing out of position (ala Nikko) there is not the quickness/skill to stop other teams more skilled players. Get "our guys" back and healthy, give these players more time in the current system, and BINGO...this is a much different team. One might also recall that this is a very young team...sophomores and freshmen abound. Underclassmen often struggle at learning the more sophisticated college game. Anyway, don't let the vocal few get you down. No matter how much they played in HS and claim to be experts. Heck, some never even played HS ball, yet want all to believe tat they know all there is about coaching college level basketball.

You know, it may be time to either support this team and Coach or not. The fact is that he and the majority of the team will be back next season. Some just need to either get over that fact or move on down the road if it is just too painful for them to bear. The facts are that this team has not won the number of games that anyone expected. But, the fact also remains that this team has much left to play for this season. Personally, I plan on being there to see how the season plays out...win or lose. Here's hoping there will be more wins left than losses.

Yes, if only George Odufuwa were playing as many minutes this year as he did last year.

And weren't CJ and Holman around for the D2 debacle? Didn't they play in the game against a vastly depleted WKU?

How are you not dizzy from all of the spin you keep trying to put on things? This was a bad hire....it just was. The fact that we don't have an administration willing (or perhaps able) to rectify the problem won't change the fact that next year is FAR from assured of being better. And trying to deflect the legitimate concerns of...try to stay with me...THE PEOPLE YOU KEEP TRYING TO BROW BEAT INTO BUYING TICKETS AND GIVING EVEN MORE THAN THEY ALREADY DO...is insulting. We have the third highest attendance in the almighty Sun Belt? Wow. How many of these are season ticket holders who don't want to see already purchased tickets go to waste? How many of those season tickets were purchased because of the success of the old coaching staff....and because of the promises that the VERY SAME athletic department was all too willing to put out there.

"Most talented team in NT history" wasn't my creation, or UNT90's, or Tasty's, or CMJ's. Nope, it came from the same folks over on Bonnie Brae who you are all too eager to defend. If they created the "pre-season hype" that we aren't supposed to believe, and you obviously agree it was overblown...are you now saying we shouldn't trust them? Seems that way to me. And if you're saying we shouldn't trust them, then surely we can't be wrong to question their judgement in coach hires or to have little faith that bad hires will be rectified. Thanks KRAM...I couldn't have laid that part out any better myself.

[Green_dude]

Yes, if only George Odufuwa were playing as many minutes this year as he did last year.

And weren't CJ and Holman around for the D2 debacle? Didn't they play in the game against a vastly depleted WKU?

How are you not dizzy from all of the spin you keep trying to put on things? This was a bad hire....it just was. The fact that we don't have an administration willing (or perhaps able) to rectify the problem won't change the fact that next year is FAR from assured of being better. And trying to deflect the legitimate concerns of...try to stay with me...THE PEOPLE YOU KEEP TRYING TO BROW BEAT INTO BUYING TICKETS AND GIVING EVEN MORE THAN THEY ALREADY DO...is insulting. We have the third highest attendance in the almighty Sun Belt? Wow. How many of these are season ticket holders who don't want to see already purchased tickets go to waste? How many of those season tickets were purchased because of the success of the old coaching staff....and because of the promises that the VERY SAME athletic department was all too willing to put out there.

"Most talented team in NT history" wasn't my creation, or UNT90's, or Tasty's, or CMJ's. Nope, it came from the same folks over on Bonnie Brae who you are all too eager to defend. If they created the "pre-season hype" that we aren't supposed to believe, and you obviously agree it was overblown...are you now saying we shouldn't trust them? Seems that way to me. And if you're saying we shouldn't trust them, then surely we can't be wrong to question their judgement in coach hires or to have little faith that bad hires will be rectified. Thanks KRAM...I couldn't have laid that part out any better myself.

If KRAM is insulting I'm not sure how to define many of the comments you and others make on this board. Oh... How has the bitching had a positive impact so far?

Bitch less---->Give more.

[greenminer]

I predict we will all come to an agreement on page 7 of this thread.

[UNT90]

If KRAM is insulting I'm not sure how to define many of the comments you and others make on this board. Oh... How has the bitching had a positive impact so far?

Bitch less---->Give more.

I'll make you and KRAM a bet. If Benford stays, we don't win 10 games next year. Y'all name the prize. Seriously.

Have either of you been pating attention to what is taking place in basketball recruiting? Or will you tell me that talent doesn't matter, because these kids will finally listen to the great and mighty Benford?

Expect more--------> Give accordingly.

[KRAM1]

Just one question, Emmitt...do you have cheese with all your "whine"? Or, maybe just cookies? Funny, I recall in one post your claiming that you were a Mean Green Club Volunteer Rep...if that is really is so, isn't the job of a Volunteer Rep to help raise money for UNT athletic-scholarships? How insulting of you to do such a thing!!!! Brow beating folks to help and all that....such an insult.

[KRAM1]

I'll make you and KRAM a bet. If Benford stays, we don't win 10 games next year. Y'all name the prize. Seriously.

Have either of you been pating attention to what is taking place in basketball recruiting? Or will you tell me that talent doesn't matter, because these kids will finally listen to the great and mighty Benford?

Expect more--------> Give accordingly.

Mike....UNT has 10 wins THIS year! Have you even been paying attention? I'll take that bet by the way...Benford will, indeed, be back next season, and in spite of the two JUCO's (which had ZERO to do with Benford or his staff) recruiting seems to be going OK. Plus...have you seen the classifications of the players currently on the roster? So, when I see you next...maybe at this week's game, we can set up that bet. You are on, compadre!

[Green P1]

This coach is going to be here next year so start eating the chicken sh#3 like it's chicken salad or you're a bad fan.

[MeanGreenTexan]

This coach is going to be here next year so start eating the chicken sh#3 like it's chicken salad or you're a bad fan.

For all the dads of kids 5yrs old or less out there:

[UNT90]

Mike....UNT has 10 wins THIS year! Have you even been paying attention? I'll take that bet by the way...Benford will, indeed, be back next season, and in spite of the two JUCO's (which had ZERO to do with Benford or his staff) recruiting seems to be going OK. Plus...have you seen the classifications of the players currently on the roster? So, when I see you next...maybe at this week's game, we can set up that bet. You are on, compadre!

We will definitely figure out a prize. Hopefully the AD does the right thing and the firing of Bemford will nullify the bet.

Still 2 open scholarships that we are scrambling like hell to fill with players that are not CUSA worthy. If that's your definition of recruiting going well, then I guess I understand why you would think that we can win more than 10 games next year.

We will set it up in Hot Springs. I won't be making it back for the remaining home games.

Speaking of Hot Springs, When RV starts crying this year during one of his speeches, he will have a lot of company from the UNT fans in attendance, but for entirely different reasons, of course.

[TIgreen01]

I wonder if Kram had been a UNM alum back when Locksley was destroying their football program would he have been defending him with as much fervor as he's now doing with Benford?

That situation, like this one, was an obvious disaster from game 1. It takes some serious blind loyalty to not see that. I expect that Kram is not blind, but would never say anything negative about the program publicly. Kind of like George Dunham---until getting outed by Craig Miller last week.

At some point, though, you've got to know your audience. Nobody on this board wants to hear about next year. UNT basketball is no longer marketable for next season---esp to those on this board. If Benford returns, it's going to take wins, and wins alone to get that back. Maybe if we hadn't recently lived through the Trilli years...the Dodge years...the Stephens years...it'd be different. We have TOO MUCH DAMNED EXPERIENCE watching terrible coaches here that we can spot them a mile away and have been burned too recently that the scabs are still fresh from the last one.

Edited February 20, 2013 by TIgreen01

[Green Dozer]

We will definitely figure out a prize. Hopefully the AD does the right thing and the firing of Bemford will nullify the bet.

Still 2 open scholarships that we are scrambling like hell to fill with players that are not CUSA worthy. If that's your definition of recruiting going well, then I guess I understand why you would think that we can win more than 10 games next year.

We will set it up in Hot Springs. I won't be making it back for the remaining home games.

Speaking of Hot Springs, When RV starts crying this year during one of his speeches, he will have a lot of company from the UNT fans in attendance, but for entirely different reasons, of course.

90, just curious about your comment regarding the 2 open scholarships. Who are, that you know of, we recruiting that is not CUSA worthy?

[KRAM1]

I wonder if Kram had been a UNM alum back when Locksley was destroying their football program would he have been defending him with as much fervor as he's now doing with Benford?

That situation, like this one, was an obvious disaster from game 1. It takes some serious blind loyalty to not see that. I expect that Kram is not blind, but would never say anything negative about the program publicly. Kind of like George Dunham---until getting outed by Craig Miller last week.

At some point, though, you've got to know your audience. Nobody on this board wants to hear about next year. UNT basketball is no longer marketable for next season---esp to those on this board. If Benford returns, it's going to take wins, and wins alone to get that back. Maybe if we hadn't recently lived through the Trilli years...the Dodge years...the Stephens years...it'd be different. We have TOO MUCH DAMNED EXPERIENCE watching terrible coaches here that we can spot them a mile away and have been burned too recently that the scabs are still fresh from the last one.

I will guarantee you one thing...I would have been as supportive of the UNM program as I am UNT. What some folks here do not want to understand, is that I am supportuing the program...so, who ever is playing or coaching or running the program I will support them and do all I can for MY UNIVERSITY as long as they are part of my university. As I have said time and time again, and what folks fail to comprehend...as evidenced by this post itself...is that it is not about the individual, it is about UNT with me. In football, I have been around since the Otis Mitchell, the Dan Spika and Miller days days and have had plenty of "opportunities" to get my panties in a wad over some coach or some staffer or some W/L record and use that for an excuse (because that would be what exactly what it is) to not support, to criticize and to just be negative about everything. It's a choice people...understand...a choice. If you don't like it, great...your choice and all the whining in the world is not going to change anything. YOU get to choose....because I choose to try my best to stay positive, and others want to stay negative should be of no concern to anyone else. You make your bed, you lie in it...I have no problems with that.

So, want to do something to change the culture? Fine. But, if it is so bad, why take the time to get so worked up on a message board all the time when you could actually be doing something about it....if you actually want to do more than whine that is. If like some here, it is the whine that is important, then OK, this is your place...keep playing.

As much as it might pain some folks to realize it...sometimes it is time to take your toys and go away if you are just so upset. That option often is appreciated by lots of folks who have had to put up with the whine for an extended period.

And, I hate to break it to you...but as far as basketball attendance goes...UNT is 3rd in the "Belt behind WKY and MT. So, perhaps UNT is not focusing ALL its efforts just on the folks on this board...many of whom do not attend games, do not buy season tickets and don't donate to the Mean Green Club in the first place. But, who certainly do like to whine about everything Mean Green!

And, as to being blind...there are none so blind as those who will not see!

It's a CHOICE people. Me, I'll be in my seat for the remaining home games and I'll be in Hot Springs.

[KRAM1]

This coach is going to be here next year so start eating the chicken sh#3 like it's chicken salad or you're a bad fan.

Come on now...don't start this "all hat and no cattle" stuff again! Who said anything about "bad fans"? Fans are fans...that's the challenge at UNT...too many "fans", too few folks actually invested in their university. Big difference. Fans are not good or bad...they are fans...they come and go as the wagon rolls. It is what it is...can't build your program on those folks...all entertainment dollars to them and very fungible. A program can use all the fans it can get, but they cannot be counted on to be the base on which the program is built for the long term. When times are good, these folks pony up to support the program, when times are a bit more "challenging" well, off they go. They are fans after all. Cannot blame them but they cannot be counted on either for the long haul. Is what it is....personal decision. Not good...not bad...a decision none the less.

[emmitt01]

Just one question, Emmitt...do you have cheese with all your "whine"? Or, maybe just cookies? Funny, I recall in one post your claiming that you were a Mean Green Club Volunteer Rep...if that is really is so, isn't the job of a Volunteer Rep to help raise money for UNT athletic-scholarships? How insulting of you to do such a thing!!!! Brow beating folks to help and all that....such an insult.

First, you need a new bit. The cookie shtick is tired just like the rest of your routine. Sorry, I just refuse to roll over or fetch every time RV scratches my belly.

And, yes, I was a volunteer rep until this year. I simply got tired of trying to convince people to spend their hard earned money on a product the seller isn't willing to stand behind. I have a conscience. I just couldn't continue selling a ride on a Carnival cruise ship that the corporate office win't bother to clean up before setting it back out on the water. Maybe you're comfortable with that...more power to ya. And I'm also just a little perplexed by the idea of asking people who have full time jobs, kids, hobbies, etc to do the job of a staffer who gets PAID to do that same job 40 hours a week. I'm not arguing that it hasn't seen some success, every step you take above ground zero is a plus. I'm just saying it's akin to the Ford dealer asking you to be a "volunteer Pinto salesman". If your product aint selling because it will blow up in your face (Benford, Dodge, Stephens) it doesn't matter who you get to push it. Of course, in your case, you'd honestly ask the hospitalized burn victims "why don't you buy ANOTHER Pinto...aren't you a good Ford fan!!!?"

And you're absolutely right about one thing. It is a choice. NT continues to choose not to do what's necessary to fix the problems...and people choose to stay home and write off NT athletics as irrelevant. But hey, let's thump our chests about having "the third highest attendance in the SUN BELT". Anyone know of a kids jump rope team that's about 500 strong...we've got a game tomorrow. As long as we use bottom of the barrel as the standard we'll be sittin pretty!

Only at North Texas

Edited February 20, 2013 by emmitt01

[CMJ]

Listen Kram, I donate, listen to more games than all but about 7 of our fans (even a ot of fans who post here have all but checked out and maybe check box scores now....even YOU don't listen to all the games!) and am flying halfway across the country to go to Hot Springs to watch our ten win team most likely go 1 and done. If I wanna bitch about Benford, I think I have earned that right. And I'll still give at my meager donation level (yeah I know if I really wanted influence I'd give a million dollars....and pay it off over the rest of my life), even though it feels like money down the drain right now.

So yeah, call us all out for being bad fans.

Edited February 20, 2013 by CMJ

[Censored by Laurie]

90, just curious about your comment regarding the 2 open scholarships. Who are, that you know of, we recruiting that is not CUSA worthy?

[TIgreen01]

I will guarantee you one thing...I would have been as supportive of the UNM program as I am UNT. What some folks here do not want to understand, is that I am supportuing the program...so, who ever is playing or coaching or running the program I will support them and do all I can for MY UNIVERSITY as long as they are part of my university. As I have said time and time again, and what folks fail to comprehend...as evidenced by this post itself...is that it is not about the individual, it is about UNT with me. In football, I have been around since the Otis Mitchell, the Dan Spika and Miller days days and have had plenty of "opportunities" to get my panties in a wad over some coach or some staffer or some W/L record and use that for an excuse (because that would be what exactly what it is) to not support, to criticize and to just be negative about everything. It's a choice people...understand...a choice. If you don't like it, great...your choice and all the whining in the world is not going to change anything. YOU get to choose....because I choose to try my best to stay positive, and others want to stay negative should be of no concern to anyone else. You make your bed, you lie in it...I have no problems with that.

So, want to do something to change the culture? Fine. But, if it is so bad, why take the time to get so worked up on a message board all the time when you could actually be doing something about it....if you actually want to do more than whine that is. If like some here, it is the whine that is important, then OK, this is your place...keep playing.

As much as it might pain some folks to realize it...sometimes it is time to take your toys and go away if you are just so upset. That option often is appreciated by lots of folks who have had to put up with the whine for an extended period.

And, I hate to break it to you...but as far as basketball attendance goes...UNT is 3rd in the "Belt behind WKY and MT. So, perhaps UNT is not focusing ALL its efforts just on the folks on this board...many of whom do not attend games, do not buy season tickets and don't donate to the Mean Green Club in the first place. But, who certainly do like to whine about everything Mean Green!

And, as to being blind...there are none so blind as those who will not see!

It's a CHOICE people. Me, I'll be in my seat for the remaining home games and I'll be in Hot Springs.

I get that you support the program....not the individuals. That's what I was getting at. I think you'd agree that nearly everyone who posts on this board is a supporter of the program---not individual coaches. There may be a few here or there, but we do not have a wildly successful coach employed at any position that draws his/her own personal fanbase.

As far as the choice you allude to....when it is blatantly obvious that we need a change at head coach, but the administration cannot, or will not, make that change due to $$....they've made the choice easy for most.

I support UNT above any individual currently employed by UNT, always have. I've donated money to the school from the day I graduated, never missing a year. But I will not eat a turd sandwich just because its put on my plate. When 3 out of your 5 most recent sandwiches have turned out to be turds, it might be easier to get up from the table and walk away (as you seemingly are suggesting), or maybe it's time to demand a change in the chef??

[Green Dozer]

Thank you CBL!