UNT paying pretty large guarantee for Idaho

[Cerebus]

  On 2/12/2013 at 8:15 PM, GrandGreen said:

How is more than your likely revenue for the whole game, and we are talking a sell out, something NT can afford?

Because you want to make you fans happy. Fans want six home games, fans are tired of starting every year with a road date at a heavily favored teams home. It's worth the money to not travel to Alabama and start off the year 0-1 and then trying to sell season ticket pacages with only 5 dates.

  On 2/12/2013 at 8:15 PM, GrandGreen said:

This is about the equivalent of UT paying NT over $3M for a guarantee.

We made 1.5 for going to LSU last year. And UT could afford to pay way more than 3 million for a home game without going into the red.

[UNT90]

  On 2/12/2013 at 4:16 PM, SilverEagle said:

Now it's up to promotions to get out and sell this game and get butts in the seats. I've said this before, it's far easier to sell "THE University of Idaho" as an opponent, than Texas Southern.

Is it? Is it really?

[untjim1995]

  On 2/12/2013 at 9:27 PM, Cerebus said:

Because you want to make you fans happy. Fans want six home games, fans are tired of starting every year with a road date at a heavily favored teams home. It's worth the money to not travel to Alabama and start off the year 0-1 and then trying to sell season ticket pacages with only 5 dates.

We made 1.5 for going to LSU last year. And UT could afford to pay way more than 3 million for a home game without going into the red.

I think that most fans would take 5 games on their schedule for season tickets if it included a home game against an OOC opponent that was a recognizable name from either an AQ league or a big name from the MWC or Big East. I'd be fine if the Ball State game was in Muncie again, if it meant that instead of Idaho, we opened up at home against a team like Mizzou or Colorado. Just my .02....

[MeanGreenTexan]

  On 2/12/2013 at 4:16 PM, SilverEagle said:

Now it's up to promotions to get out and sell this game and get butts in the seats. I've said this before, it's far easier to sell "THE University of Idaho" as an opponent, than Texas Southern.

  On 2/12/2013 at 9:39 PM, UNT90 said:

Is it? Is it really?

90, which of Silver's original 2 statements is your follow up question addressing?

I would say I agree with both of them.

I hope UNT's promotions staff would aggressively pump up this game.

I also believe I would rather see UNT play ID than TSU.

[Mean Green 93-98]

  On 2/12/2013 at 9:50 PM, MeanGreenTexan said:

I hope UNT's promotions staff would aggressively pump up this game.

I also believe I would rather see UNT play ID than TSU.

Yes, and yes.

[GrandGreen]

Nothing makes a lot of financial sense for a lower tier division 1 program. Playing your opening home game at a net loss is just one example.

I just don't think NT is getting a lot of bang for their buck with Idaho. Yes, they are a div 1 team but anyone who keeps up with football knows that is just barely true. People that don't keep up with football had probably rather see NT play a regional fc squad. So I am not sure what is driving this decision.

[MeanGreenTexan]

  On 2/12/2013 at 10:21 PM, GrandGreen said:

Nothing makes a lot of financial sense for a lower tier division 1 program. Playing your opening home game at a net loss is just one example.

I just don't think NT is getting a lot of bang for their buck with Idaho. Yes, they are a div 1 team but anyone who keeps up with football knows that is just barely true. People that don't keep up with football had probably rather see NT play a regional fc squad. So I am not sure what is driving this decision.

How much is a guarantee game for SFA?? I would guess this is the type of game you're referencing? How do we know that this type of guarantee would be much less (or maybe more?) than what we're paying ID? I'd still rather see us beat a FBS team, sorry.

I don't think the students really care about the difference between a school like SFA or ID... Now, bring UT/A&M/Tech/OU/OKSt in here, and that is a different story. Bring in SHSU, and we might get beat. What a black eye that would be...

How do you know this game will net a loss?

[Mean Green 93-98]

  On 2/12/2013 at 10:21 PM, GrandGreen said:

Nothing makes a lot of financial sense for a lower tier division 1 program. Playing your opening home game at a net loss is just one example.

I just don't think NT is getting a lot of bang for their buck with Idaho. Yes, they are a div 1 team but anyone who keeps up with football knows that is just barely true. People that don't keep up with football had probably rather see NT play a regional fc squad. So I am not sure what is driving this decision.

I seem to recall people around here last year getting pretty steamed that our only home opponent was an FCS team.

[VideoEagle]

We are paying Idaho less than 1/3 what LSU paid us for a one and done and people are complaining? Seriesously?!? Any idea what it costs to charter an airliner from Moscow, Idaho? Remember they have a very short runway and have to tak off from Moscow, then land in Boisie to refuel to make it to Texas.

[ragpicker]

A good time to get people up here on the "A" Train as well as getting people off of the hill and into the stadium. A small crowd on a hot sunny day is depressing. WE simply must win this game.

[10Eagle10]

if it results in a WIN then the money spent is well worth it. Heck, I would be perfectly fine with playing this game against a lower tier FBS opponent AND also bringing in an FCS team like TX Southern for an additional win. Just win, baby. I come to Apogee to watch the Mean Green curb stomp whoever they're playing. It could be Forestburg HS 6man team for all i care

[UNT90]

  On 2/12/2013 at 9:50 PM, MeanGreenTexan said:

90, which of Silver's original 2 statements is your follow up question addressing?

I would say I agree with both of them.

I hope UNT's promotions staff would aggressively pump up this game.

I also believe I would rather see UNT play ID than TSU.

I was only addressing the statement that this is a easier to market game than TSU.

It isn't.

Two teams that no one in this area, besides us faithful, give a crap about.

Am I happy we aren't playing an FCS team? Yes. Will it mean anything else to attendance? No. Will this game be on any casual DFW fan's radar? Absolutley not.

Hey, here is an idea. Plan your scheduling better and this could be our home part of a 1 and 1 with a MWC team.

[Harry]

  On 2/13/2013 at 2:39 AM, UNT90 said:

I was only addressing the statement that this is a easier to market game than TSU.

It isn't.

Two teams that no one in this area, besides us faithful, give a crap about.

Am I happy we aren't playing an FCS team? Yes. Will it mean anything else to attendance? No. Will this game be on any casual DFW fan's radar? Absolutley not.

Hey, here is an idea. Plan your scheduling better and this could be our home part of a 1 and 1 with a MWC team.

Patience grasshopper -- how about let's schedule a home game to start the season off with a IA Opponent home game, last time was 2001 against TCU as an underdog -- God only knows when we last played a home game as the favorite!

I think this Idaho game is a step in the right direction.

[GrandGreen]

  On 2/12/2013 at 10:37 PM, MeanGreenTexan said:

How much is a guarantee game for SFA?? I would guess this is the type of game you're referencing? How do we know that this type of guarantee would be much less (or maybe more?) than what we're paying ID? I'd still rather see us beat a FBS team, sorry.

I don't think the students really care about the difference between a school like SFA or ID... Now, bring UT/A&M/Tech/OU/OKSt in here, and that is a different story. Bring in SHSU, and we might get beat. What a black eye that would be...

How do you know this game will net a loss?

How about this: Assume Apogee has 30k seats. Yes the capacity is cited as over 31,000 but there has never been any number I know of given for seats for sale.

At least 8,000 for student use leaves 22,000 tickets to sale. Assume $15 an average ticket, which is probably high that is $330,000 in ticket revenue. Add some for concessions and parking. Then subtract all the game day expenses.

You can argue the numbers but it would hard to envision that NT would show a profit with a $410,000 guarantee to cover even with a sell out that didn't even happen with much more attractive opponents.

[Harry]

Idaho appears to be pulling a UNT 1995 paycheck scheduling strategy...

[emmitt01]

  On 2/12/2013 at 4:16 PM, SilverEagle said:

Now it's up to a handful of dedicated and motivated alumni and fans to get out and sell this game and get butts in the seats. I've said this before, it's far easier to sell "THE University of Idaho" as an opponent, than Texas Southern.

FIFY

[outoftown]

  On 2/13/2013 at 3:51 AM, Harry said:

Idaho appears to be pulling a UNT 1995 paycheck scheduling strategy...

Of course they are, so would I. Being involuntarily independent this is a smart move designed to get you some attention and the money necessary to compensate the lack of a conference. Also: it gives you the money to pay lesser schools to come to your place (as we do with Idaho) which is the only way to get at least 5 home games every season for a team like Idaho.

And as some people always mention on this board when it comes to bodybag games: players want these chances at the big schools, even if they are the heaviest of underdogs.

[UNT90]

  On 2/13/2013 at 3:11 AM, Harry said:

Patience grasshopper -- how about let's schedule a home game to start the season off with a IA Opponent home game, last time was 2001 against TCU as an underdog -- God only knows when we last played a home game as the favorite!

I think this Idaho game is a step in the right direction.

Will we be the favorite?

I get the patience thing. Many of the old timers have had lots of patience with little to no results. When will someone be held accountable? I'm not even talking coaches or ADs, as I think the culture problem goes mich higher in the chain of command.

And there are no consequences for those folks.

[outoftown]

  On 2/13/2013 at 1:41 PM, UNT90 said:

Will we be the favorite?

I get the patience thing. Many of the old timers have had lots of patience with little to no results. When will someone be held accountable? I'm not even talking coaches or ADs, as I think the culture problem goes mich higher in the chain of command.

And there are no consequences for those folks.

Yes we will

[Arkstfan]

That's a very good price for an FBS.

It's not about selling your opponent. It's about selling North Texas football.

A decade ago, we bought a game with San Jose State. A media member told me recently that was the first time he'd seen Arkansas State ACT like a I-A program since he'd started covering the program.

Things like this matter. Sure it's probably a short-term financial loss but it sends a message to supporters and potential supporters.

[tylermeangreen]

  On 2/13/2013 at 3:45 PM, Arkstfan said:

That's a very good price for an FBS.

It's not about selling your opponent. It's about selling North Texas football.

A decade ago, we bought a game with San Jose State. A media member told me recently that was the first time he'd seen Arkansas State ACT like a I-A program since he'd started covering the program.

Things like this matter. Sure it's probably a short-term financial loss but it sends a message to supporters and potential supporters.

Bingo! Somebody finally gets it!

[Mean Green 93-98]

  On 2/13/2013 at 3:45 PM, Arkstfan said:

That's a very good price for an FBS.

It's not about selling your opponent. It's about selling North Texas football.

A decade ago, we bought a game with San Jose State. A media member told me recently that was the first time he'd seen Arkansas State ACT like a I-A program since he'd started covering the program.

Things like this matter. Sure it's probably a short-term financial loss but it sends a message to supporters and potential supporters.

Great post! I'd like to give you a +1, but where is your +1 button . . .

Hey! Who made this ferner an admin?!?

[Cerebus]

  On 2/13/2013 at 3:24 AM, GrandGreen said:

How about this: Assume Apogee has 30k seats. Yes the capacity is cited as over 31,000 but there has never been any number I know of given for seats for sale.

At least 8,000 for student use leaves 22,000 tickets to sale. Assume $15 an average ticket, which is probably high that is $330,000 in ticket revenue. Add some for concessions and parking. Then subtract all the game day expenses.

You can argue the numbers but it would hard to envision that NT would show a profit with a $410,000 guarantee to cover even with a sell out that didn't even happen with much more attractive opponents.

This isn't about making a profit OFF OF THIS ONE GAME.

This is about trying to get a win in front of people who may become donors. This is about selling season ticket packages and MGC donations. This is about making us look like a real program. Winning in front of home crowds is what this program needs to grow and make much more money in the future.

How can anyone have a problem with this? What are our options?

Take a money game road trip to the SEC and lose?

Done enough of that. How about we don't start off 0-1? And in case no one has noticed, between increased ticket sales and giving, the athletics fee, and new conference revenue we are no longer in the position where we HAVE to sell as many of our games as possible.

Schedule a 1 and 1 with a MAC team?

Great, that means looking forward to five home game seasons when we return those games. We can now afford to buy games instead of having to home/home splits with Ball State. This is a good thing. Save those splits for SMU and that type of program.

Get aTm to play in Denton?

Good luck. They make $4.2 million a home game. Most of the teams we "want" to play, which would bring a crowd to Apogee either 1) we can't afford to bring here, or 2) don't want to play us and possibly give us a recruiting advantage, or 3) both.

[GrandGreen]

This isn't about making a profit OFF OF THIS ONE GAME.

This is about trying to get a win in front of people who may become donors. This is about selling season ticket packages and MGC donations. This is about making us look like a real program. Winning in front of home crowds is what this program needs to grow and make much more money in the future.

I am not sure how playing Idaho has anything to do with this. Sure winning whether at home or away does help. Playing six games at home helps the program. Playing the opening game at home is a winner.

Buying a home game is the only way to balance a home schedule when NT plays a guarantee game away.

My point is and was is paying Idaho to come to Apogee give you anything a lower cost fc game would? IMO, no; in fact I doubt any of your points is better served playing Idaho than SFA, Lamar, or in fact Texas Southern

How can anyone have a problem with this? What are our options?

I certainly don't have a big issue with this. The options are obvious, save your money and sign a home and away series with a better opponent. This would of course result in years with less than 6 home games. Play a fc division team. Drop the guarantee game against the powers.

Take a money game road trip to the SEC and lose?

Done enough of that. How about we don't start off 0-1? And in case no one has noticed, between increased ticket sales and giving, the athletics fee, and new conference revenue we are no longer in the position where we HAVE to sell as many of our games as possible

NT has a bigger budget and will need ever bit of it. NT has been playing one guarantee away game a year for a while. Something that is continuing. So I don't understand this point.

Schedule a 1 and 1 with a MAC team?

Great, that means looking forward to five home game seasons when we return those games. We can now afford to buy games instead of having to home/home splits with Ball State. This is a good thing. Save those splits for SMU and that type of program.

Who is advocating more MAC games, maybe I missed something? With the influx of more FB teams, scheduling should be easier not harder.

Get aTm to play in Denton?

Good luck. They make $4.2 million a home game. Most of the teams we "want" to play, which would bring a crowd to Apogee either 1) we can't afford to bring here, or 2) don't want to play us and possibly give us a recruiting advantage, or 3) both.

The usual straw man argument, no one who is familiar with sports finances expects a big name opponent to come to Apogee. It occasionally happens but not often, and when it does it usually involves multiply away games to one home game.

Again I don't have a major issue with buying a home game with Idaho. I pointed out that NT would be losing money on the game. IMO, having a six home game and a home opening is a good thing for the program. So in that there is no disagreement. I differ I guess in that I don't see a lot of value in bringing in Idaho versus playing an assumed lower cost fc opponent. And yes plenty of people were unhappy with NT schedule last year when the only home game was against Texas Southern. A little difference with two oc home games and a much more sell-able home conference schedule.

[UNT90]

And my point was if you had a better scheduling plan starting 3 or more years ago you could get 1 for 1s to fill this spot.

We didn't get in the position of having to buy a home game in a vacuum.

Again, I applaud the AD for not taking the easy way out and just having another 5 game home schedule. It would be really nice if we can afford to do this and the leadership of this university is willing to do this on a regular basis. Not much evidence of that.

But to present this game as some grand coup is pretty ridiculous. It is what should have been done in this situation. Will we do it again in 2017 (or 2018, too lazy to look it up) when we will again be faced with having to buy a game because we have failed to schedule appropriately? I hope so.

The 2 for 0 with Iowa is just plain mystifying.