Booze

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

This isn't football related so please feel free to move, but for the life of me I can't figure out why UNT takes one step forward and then 10 steps backward. It's hard enough to get Greek membership as it is and now this? What is our administration thinking?

http://www.wfaa.com/news/education/unt-booze-190138321.html

[letsgiveacheer]

At least it's better than double-secret probation.

[UNT90]

I'm wondering how this affects the Greek tailgating scene. Is that considered an "on campus" event?

[Censored by Laurie]

This isn't football related so please feel free to move, but for the life of me I can't figure out why UNT takes one step forward and then 10 steps backward. It's hard enough to get Greek membership as it is and now this? What is our administration thinking?

http://www.wfaa.com/news/education/unt-booze-190138321.html

Actually, I'm pretty sure had he taken the steps this wouldn't be an issue.

[oldguystudent]

What is our administration thinking?

They're thinking liability. It'll just drive the events underground. I don't know if the fraternities were in the habit of throwing parties at their houses or not, so I don't know how much of a culture shift there will be. Look for lots of rent house visits from the fine folk at Denton PD as the students seek out alternative venues.

Hey, at least the problem of greeks sitting on couches on the hill during the game is solved!

Historical context: I was in a fraternity on a 100% dry campus with no fraternity houses during the early days of fraternity national offices implementing comparatively strict controls on chapter activities. Let me tell you. It didn't stop a damn thing. It just moved it.

Edited February 7, 2013 by oldguystudent

[MeanGreenTexan]

I'm wondering how this affects the Greek tailgating scene. Is that considered an "on campus" event?

Surely they're not going to put a clause in to exclude tailgating from this ban? That would come across as hypocritical.

And yes, I would assume that a football game is an on-campus, University sponsored event, so I'm thinking that the hill is going to be pretty sparse next year.

Despite some of them giving the entire greek community a black eye, losing the greeks at tailgating is not a good thing, and although I doubt they stop showing up altogether, if they are not able to drink, then I highly doubt it will be as crowded out there.

[oldguystudent]

I doubt they stop showing up altogether, if they are not able to drink, then I highly doubt it will be as crowded out there.

They don't stop showing up. They just stop showing up as an organization. You don't wear your letters, you don't display your letters. Just a bunch of random students with a grill and a cooler. What? PROVE it's a fraternity event!

[MeanGreenTexan]

They don't stop showing up. They just stop showing up as an organization. You don't wear your letters, you don't display your letters. Just a bunch of random students with a grill and a cooler. What? PROVE it's a fraternity event!

I hope this is not the case, because the tailgating scene is a great place for the greeks to show their organizations off, and show support for the university and the football team at the same time. If it just becomes a bunch of random students showing up without their tall painted letters and loud music, then it's going to be a very tame (re:boring) scene on "the hill".

[UNTcrazy727]

I hope this is not the case, because the tailgating scene is a great place for the greeks to show their organizations off, and show support for the university and the football team at the same time. If it just becomes a bunch of random students showing up without their tall painted letters and loud music, then it's going to be a very tame (re:boring) scene on "the hill".

At LSU and a lot of other schools you won't see one Greek letter on gameday. Not sure why that is, but I loved it. Makes it more about supporting your school and not a dick measuring contest between fraternities.

This is just another attempt by UNT to get rid of Greek life

[Censored by Laurie]

This is just another attempt by UNT to get rid of Greek life

Ya...that's just wrong, brah.

[UNTcrazy727]

Ya...that's just wrong, brah.

Sorta, but not really

[KRAM1]

Nope...not an attempt to get rid of greek life at UNT.

[kalebschumann]

They don't stop showing up. They just stop showing up as an organization. You don't wear your letters, you don't display your letters. Just a bunch of random students with a grill and a cooler. What? PROVE it's a fraternity event!

I was always told that if the University or Denton PD bust an event, and they find out that 3 or more people are from a certain organization, they can hold the organization iteself liable.

I was told that it was to prevent circumventing hazing rules...

"No officer, we aren't Blah Blah Blah Fraternity hazing these freshman... We're just a bunch of guys making these freshman drink a lot blindfolded.. Wow what a coincidence, I guess we are all part of Blah Blah Blah fraternity now that you mention it."

[drex]

There is/can be much more to Greek life than chasing a bottle. Thanks to booze, my fraternity is just a memory at North Texas...alcohol abuse destroyed the chapter. The university needs Greek alums, as they turn out to be some of the biggest supporters of the university...hope this does not destroy the university's relationship with the Greeks.

[UNTcrazy727]

Nope...not an attempt to get rid of greek life at UNT.

Just trying to hold it back with a ridiculous rule that goes a long with their track record of not being very Greek friendly.

[rws69]

I hope this is not the case, because the tailgating scene is a great place for the greeks to show their organizations off, and show support for the university and the football team at the same time. If it just becomes a bunch of random students showing up without their tall painted letters and loud music, then it's going to be a very tame (re:boring) scene on "the hill".

I didn't realize they were supporting the team. Seems like the tailgating continued while the games were being played.

[Eagle61]

Know how to stop underage drinking? Lower the drinking age to 18 like it was in the 70s and 80s. Name one other thing where the legal age is 21. You can sign contracts, you can get a home loan, you can get a credit card, you can get married, you can serve in the armed forces, you can die for your country. Are they adults or children when they are over 18 but under 21? Society needs to make up its mind.

[TIgreen01]

So the penalty for violating the ban is what? Kicking the fraternity off of campus? Might as well disband them all now and save everyone a very painful few years.

Wiping out the greeks would be a monumental mistake for UNT.

[JesseMartin]

They don't stop showing up. They just stop showing up as an organization. You don't wear your letters, you don't display your letters. Just a bunch of random students with a grill and a cooler. What? PROVE it's a fraternity event!

I was always told that if the University or Denton PD bust an event, and they find out that 3 or more people are from a certain organization, they can hold the organization iteself liable.

I was told that it was to prevent circumventing hazing rules...

"No officer, we aren't Blah Blah Blah Fraternity hazing these freshman... We're just a bunch of guys making these freshman drink a lot blindfolded.. Wow what a coincidence, I guess we are all part of Blah Blah Blah fraternity now that you mention it."

Yup, you answered it for me. I was on the Student Code of Conduct Appeals Committee, and whether they are trying to warn or punish an organization, the University admin errs on the side of caution to extreme measures. Though I don't believe it has actually caused any punishments (at least while I was around), even leadership exercises like "trust falls" and "trust walks" or spirit exercises like "appearing to force school spirit" are warned against (if done by an organization, though apparently they're fine in staff or general University events since there are "responsible adults" present), because according to the administration, those sorts of things can cause psychological damage by requiring students to do something that may make them feel uncomfortable.

It's a slippery slope, and yes, those things don't seem excessive, especially considering some of the dirty secrets I've heard from members of other organizations (as well as the publicized problems that are considered common knowledge)...so I guess the point is that they want to stop you at the little stuff so that you don't start to feel like you can get away with something bigger. (And no, I'm not violating any confidentiality here, because I'm giving generalizations and not discussing specific events held by specific groups.) Do I think they go a bit too far? Yes, but if certain *ahem* problems hadn't occurred in the past, they probably wouldn't feel the need to go digging around so much.

[UNT90]

Punish all for the mistakes of a few. Way to administrate, administrators. You will probably win an administration award for administering so administratively awesome.

Just another boneheaded decision by UNT. Its beginning to become what I expect.

Edited February 7, 2013 by UNT90

[Stan R]

Punish all for the mistakes of a few. Way to administrate, administrators. You will probably win an administration award for administering so administratively awesome.

Just another boneheaded decision by UNT. I beginning to become what I expect.

Right, I mean, is there even any kind of precedent for this? Or did we just invent this punishment method all by ourselves?

[UNT90]

Right, I mean, is there even any kind of precedent for this? Or did we just invent this punishment method all by ourselves?

Right, because incongruent precedents trumps proper punishment for circumstances EVERY time with administrators. Edited February 7, 2013 by UNT90

[emmitt01]

"I hope this is not the case, because the tailgating scene is a great place for the greeks to show their organizations off from the hill...to all the people sitting inside the stadium."

FIFY

[UNTcrazy727]

"I hope this is not the case, because the tailgating scene is a great place for the greeks to show their organizations off from the hill...to all the people sitting inside the stadium."

FIFY

Yeah so let's drive them away and ruin the student tailgate scene and wipe out any chance of ever getting them inside the stadium.

[mattmartin817]

So I'm guessing we still won't be selling booze in the stadium this year...