JUCO ROUTE

[wardly]

Just a question, not an opinion,but are we going the JUCO route vs. Texas State,who seems to be building a solid[and maybe better] program thru the high school ranks.? I hate to say it, but Texas State seems to be kicking ass in recruiting, and certainly could kick ours on the field.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Hey Wardly,

You may want to check TX St. commit list...

We signed 5 JUCO guys.

They signed 10!

[Green P1]

Seems to me that Mac came in over confident with his recruiting abilities right out of Florida and declared that he wouldn't be building the program on JUCOs. Now after two years of struggling on both the field and recruiting trail he's gone way heavy on transfers and JUCOs to save his own skin. I really hope it works out... but to me he's gone about it backwards.

[Eagle1855]

JUCO is just fine if you win. Then you establish a winning tradition, which attracts HS talent.

[wardly]

Hey Wardly,

You may want to check TX St. commit list...

We signed 5 JUCO guys.

They signed 10!

Thanks for the information. I guess the # of their 3 star signings blinded me.

[SilverEagle]

We signed one less JUCO (5) as these guys.....who signed 6.

http://www.kshb.com/dpp/sports/college_sports/ksu/kansas-state-announces-2013-football-recruiting-class

[MeanGreenTexan]

We signed one less JUCO (5) as these guys.....who signed 6.

http://www.kshb.com/dpp/sports/college_sports/ksu/kansas-state-announces-2013-football-recruiting-class

Yeah, but KState always signs JUCO guys. That's just the way Bill Snyder rolls. Not to mention, his school is sitting in the middle of the best JUCO conference out there, the Jayhawk conference.

I'm inclined to agree with GreenP1. Seems Mac was a little overconfident and now feels the heat, and understands what he has to do to get immediate help.

[meangreanmick]

Well, I think we have 9 if you count transfers and JUCOs? He is certainly changing his strategy, because it was clearly heavy HS build from the bottom in his first 2 classes (or 1 1/2 since he didn't get much time in that first one). I would say that either means he thinks he is 9 JUCO's/Transferees away from winning, or he thinks he is going to get fired if he doesn't win this year so he is gambling it all on this year.

I hope its the first one, otherwise if its the 2nd one and it fails, we are back to where we were at the end of the Dodge era when he did that.

Personally, I'd rather give the guy another year or two to build from the bottom up to avoid another 10+years of losing in a row cause we knee-jerked. Then again, its hard recruiting even building bottom up if you aren't winning.

[TheRiojas_AD]

This is kind-of off topic....but last night one recruit mentioned wanting us to "vote for black jerseys." does anyone know what he's talking about or where we can vote for these? Feel free to move this to another board or let me know if this is somewhere else. THX

[SilverEagle]

Well, I think we have 9 if you count transfers and JUCOs? He is certainly changing his strategy, because it was clearly heavy HS build from the bottom in his first 2 classes (or 1 1/2 since he didn't get much time in that first one). I would say that either means he thinks he is 9 JUCO's/Transferees away from winning, or he thinks he is going to get fired if he doesn't win this year so he is gambling it all on this year.

I hope its the first one, otherwise if its the 2nd one and it fails, we are back to where we were at the end of the Dodge era when he did that.

Personally, I'd rather give the guy another year or two to build from the bottom up to avoid another 10+years of losing in a row cause we knee-jerked. Then again, its hard recruiting even building bottom up if you aren't winning.

I don't count transfers as the same as JUCO's. We have five JUCOs, three transfers, and one grey shirt that officially signed.

[Travis Scott]

recruit to win...that is all that matters. once winning occurs, everything else falls into place

[casual fan]

We are finally back up to 85 scholarships. That frees McCarney up to take a few jucos/transfers. If he signs about 19 or 20 HS and 4 or 5 jucos/transfers on average each year, it works out scholarship wise without creating major problems. Sign a bunch of jucos each year (Dodge took 10 in 2010 & 7 in 2009) and problems will be created for some other coach to figure out.

[Mean Green 93-98]

recruit to win...that is all that matters. once winning occurs, everything else falls into place

As long as you're not content to rest on your laurels (see Darrell Dickey, ca. 2004-06).

[GrandGreen]

Seems to me that Mac came in over confident with his recruiting abilities right out of Florida and declared that he wouldn't be building the program on JUCOs. Now after two years of struggling on both the field and recruiting trail he's gone way heavy on transfers and JUCOs to save his own skin. I really hope it works out... but to me he's gone about it backwards.

One of his statements the first year, was he was surprised at how few players had multiple offers on the team. A way of saying that he didn't inherit a whole lot of talent, but now I guess he would like to take those statements back, because he certainly has not improved it significantly if at all. This despite the comparison with one of the biggest coach failures in NCAA history.

[MeanGreenTexan]

We are finally back up to 85 scholarships. That frees McCarney up to take a few jucos/transfers. If he signs about 19 or 20 HS and 4 or 5 jucos/transfers on average each year, it works out scholarship wise without creating major problems. Sign a bunch of jucos each year (Dodge took 10 in 2010 & 7 in 2009) and problems will be created for some other coach to figure out.

Not quite yet according to coach McCarney. August 1, 2013 is when we get our scholarships back.

[GrayEagle]

Just a question, not an opinion,but are we going the JUCO route vs. Texas State,who seems to be building a solid[and maybe better] program thru the high school ranks.? I hate to say it, but Texas State seems to be kicking ass in recruiting, and certainly could kick ours on the field.

Wardly, evidently you didn't see the Texas State recruit list. From what I remember, they had six or seven recruits from California junior colleges.

Having said that, Coach Fran has always been a good recruiter. It's how he rebuilt New Mexico and TCU and perpetuated a high level at Alabama and A&M. I don't know that he could take us on the field yet (in fact, he couldn't even take UTSA) but if Texas State were in CUSA he'd have a much better class.

[outoftown]

I was wondering: can someone project how it will all work out recruiting wise sin 2014 and 2015. what are the chances we will keep being at 85?... particularly if about 2 original HS players per class leave for their very own personal reasons or because they were encouraged to do so

[MeanGreen61]

Wardly, evidently you didn't see the Texas State recruit list. From what I remember, they had six or seven recruits from California junior colleges.

Having said that, Coach Fran has always been a good recruiter. It's how he rebuilt New Mexico and TCU and perpetuated a high level at Alabama and A&M. I don't know that he could take us on the field yet (in fact, he couldn't even take UTSA) but if Texas State were in CUSA he'd have a much better class.

Looks like Texas State signed 10 JUCOs as did Louisiana Tech.

[wardly]

Wardly, evidently you didn't see the Texas State recruit list. From what I remember, they had six or seven recruits from California junior colleges.

Having said that, Coach Fran has always been a good recruiter. It's how he rebuilt New Mexico and TCU and perpetuated a high level at Alabama and A&M. I don't know that he could take us on the field yet (in fact, he couldn't even take UTSA) but if Texas State were in CUSA he'd have a much better class.

I didn't, and should not have brought up Texas State as as example.My bad. Also, just comparing their results at Houston last year vs. ours.Main point is it appears,and i certainly could be wrong, that we have a larger number of transfers and juco's this year than past, and I don't see a big leap from the type of players that Dickey brought in.Hope I am dead wrong.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Just a question, not an opinion,but are we going the JUCO route vs. Texas State,who seems to be building a solid [and maybe better] program thru the high school ranks. I hate to say it, but Texas State seems to be kicking ass in recruiting, and certainly could kick ours on the field.

(Readers Digest Large Print Version)

Thanks, wardly...., ie, another one who can see trees, the forest and the whole darn county where they're located.

I only wish others could just put the green kool-ade down long enough, take a peak outside the Denton city limits and see what is and has been going on around us for awhile now; all that as we continue in our Mean Green dream-fest of not being too realistic and not wanting to accept the cold, ugly facts at times.

So Now It's Postive Thinkin' Time On The Titanic:

If I had been on that fateful trans-Atlantic cruise early last century and then suddenly...... "WHAM!"......our ship hits the biggest Texas-sized ice cube I've ever seen while at the same time the ship starts listing and then........... someone gets in my face telling me I should not express concern; "just sing with me "Don't Worry-Be Happy" because our Captain says everything is hunk-dory fine & has everything in order (and if the Captain says that it must be true, right?" .............. and with that my cue to say this to the Titanic's well-meaning Spirit Team Leader............ "I appreciate what you're telling me, good buddy, and perhaps we can even show solidarity and sing....."Nearer My God To Thee"........in 2 part harmony, 'yet in spite of all the positive, upbeat things I'm hearing from you pal'............this ship is still going down!"

"And beggin' your forgiveness, O Titanic Spirit Team Leader, but please spare me any more pep talks at this point because I'm presently knee deep in some "VERY" cold salt water."

________________________________________________________________

SERIOUSLY.............We've had 8 losing seasons in a row for a reason, folks, and during that time we also saw an SBC program with less than a $10 million "total" athletic budget (ULM) go "Beep! Beep" past us (while beating #8 ranked Arkansas last Fall,too) and a main reason that happened with that one school from Monroe, LA, has been the main theme or topic on this message board the last 24 hours, namely...................R-E-C-R-U-I-T-I-N-G !

JUCO's? I think UNT's hand has now been forced to have to recruit more JUCO's but I've never seen that as so much a negative.

As I recall, Boise did a bunch of JUCO recruiting back in their early rise up the NCAA Totem Pole of Top 25 rankings. Yet JUCO's get 2 years to come in and contribute early and by that time our 2 star recruits (and I do NOT say that with any semblance of sarcasm) will be bigger, stronger (maybe even quicker) and be ready to contribute.

It Can Be All Good If We Start Doing Things Right...

GMG!

Edited February 8, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[tylermeangreen]

Not to mention, his school is sitting in the middle of the best JUCO conference out there, the Jayhawk conference.

Well, I am afraid that your conclusion is incorrect regarding the Jayhawk Conference being the best Juco football conference "out there". The numbers do not support your conclusion.

Since the 2006 season the first game of each season's football schedule has been devoted to the Kansas Juco teams playing the teams from the Southwest Junior College Football Conference (NEO, Trinity Valley, Kilgore, Tyler, Navarro, Cisco, Blinn).

The SWJCFC teams have won the majority of those games every season except for 2010 ( when Jayhawk teams won 4 games and SWJCFC teams won 3 games).

The SWJCFC leads the overall series 31 games to 19 over the seven seasons since 2006 (Arkansas Baptist was a member of the SWJCFC for one year - 2009 - and defeated Highland of Kansas that one year in the conference).

Good Juco football is played in Kansas, and in Mississippi, but the SWJCFC does not take a backseat to anyone.

GMG

[CurveItAround]

It seems to me that there was no reason to recruit a lot of JUCOS the first two clasess because they would have already been gone by now. When JUCOS were not signed, it left a gaping hole with last year's seniors because of the number of JUCOS signed in 2010. By signing several, plus a few transfers this year, Mac should have more upper classmen this year and next year than he has had since he has been here. I hardly think this was done on accident.

[eulessismore]

(Readers Digest Large Print Version)

I'm glad you made that clear, because I was suddenly wondering why these new bifocals I picked up today should be THAT much better than the old ones. Heck, by the time I read from the bottom up and then back down to the bottom, I was agreeing with old PMG: JUCO's aren't necessarily a bad thing. We all got to Denton as fast as we could, didn't we?

Edited February 8, 2013 by eulessismore

[UNTLifer]

(Readers Digest Large Print Version)

Thanks, wardly...., ie, another one who can see trees, the forest and the whole darn county where they're located.

I only wish others could just put the green kool-ade down long enough, take a peak outside the Denton city limits and see what is and has been going on around us for awhile now; all that as we continue in our Mean Green dream-fest of not being too realistic and not wanting to accept the cold, ugly facts at times.

So Now It's Postive Thinkin' Time On The Titanic:

If I had been on that fateful trans-Atlantic cruise early last century and then suddenly...... "WHAM!"......our ship hits the biggest Texas-sized ice cube I've ever seen while at the same time the ship starts listing and then........... someone gets in my face telling me I should not express concern; "just sing with me "Don't Worry-Be Happy" because our Captain says everything is hunk-dory fine & has everything in order (and if the Captain says that it must be true, right?" .............. and with that my cue to say this to the Titanic's well-meaning Spirit Team Leader............ "I appreciate what you're telling me, good buddy, and perhaps we can even show solidarity and sing....."Nearer My God To Thee"........in 2 part harmony, 'yet in spite of all the positive, upbeat things I'm hearing from you pal'............this ship is still going down!"

"And beggin' your forgiveness, O Titanic Spirit Team Leader, but please spare me any more pep talks at this point because I'm presently knee deep in some "VERY" cold salt water."

________________________________________________________________

SERIOUSLY.............We've had 8 losing seasons in a row for a reason, folks, and during that time we also saw an SBC program with less than a $10 million "total" athletic budget (ULM) go "Beep! Beep" past us (while beating #8 ranked Arkansas last Fall,too) and a main reason that happened with that one school from Monroe, LA, has been the main theme or topic on this message board the last 24 hours, namely...................R-E-C-R-U-I-T-I-N-G !

JUCO's? I think UNT's hand has now been forced to have to recruit more JUCO's but I've never seen that as so much a negative.

As I recall, Boise did a bunch of JUCO recruiting back in their early rise up the NCAA Totem Pole of Top 25 rankings. Yet JUCO's get 2 years to come in and contribute early and by that time our 2 star recruits (and I do NOT say that with any semblance of sarcasm) will be bigger, stronger (maybe even quicker) and be ready to contribute.

It Can Be All Good If We Start Doing Things Right...

GMG!

PMG for head coach and AD. Dear Lord help us all.

[Got5onIt]

You have to establish a winning program in order to bring in good recruits. JuCo players help do that with the ability to immediately contribute. I never quite understood why NT is not recruiting more JuCo players to get that quick shot to the arm this program is so desperate for.