Taking an early stab at a prediction on UTSA football

casual fan · February 6, 2013

This is GREAT STUFF!!!!! Now this is how you spell R I V A L RY . Who wudda thunk that little ol' UTSA could bring out this kind of passion.

If you weren't sure that being in CUSA is much better than being in the Sun Belt, you should be now.

No one got too worked up about the hilltoppers, the cajuns, or some other teams off over there somewhere, but playing teams we know in TEXAS is another story. This could be fun!

CurveItAround · February 6, 2013

This is GREAT STUFF!!!!! Now this is how you spell R I V A L RY . Who wudda thunk that little ol' UTSA could bring out this kind of passion.
If you weren't sure that being in CUSA is much better than being in the Sun Belt, you should be now.
No one got too worked up about the hilltoppers, the cajuns, or some other teams off over there somewhere, but playing teams we know in TEXAS is another story. This could be fun!

No doubt. When there is real anxiety about whether or not we will win a game or out recruit or out draw another team it means someone cares enough to notice. Can't wait to start playing some of these games.

UNT90 · February 6, 2013

This is GREAT STUFF!!!!! Now this is how you spell R I V A L RY . Who wudda thunk that little ol' UTSA could bring out this kind of passion.

If you weren't sure that being in CUSA is much better than being in the Sun Belt, you should be now.

No one got too worked up about the hilltoppers, the cajuns, or some other teams off over there somewhere, but playing teams we know in TEXAS is another story. This could be fun!

Uh, not really.

UTSA sucking so bad that a loss would mean that we would be at the bottom of suck, thus making some poeple decide to spend their money elsewhere (completely their decision, by the way) isn't quite the way rivalries are supposed to be born.

Only at North Texas?

MeanGreenTexan · February 6, 2013

This is GREAT STUFF!!!!! Now this is how you spell R I V A L RY . Who wudda thunk that little ol' UTSA could bring out this kind of passion.

If you weren't sure that being in CUSA is much better than being in the Sun Belt, you should be now.

No one got too worked up about the hilltoppers, the cajuns, or some other teams off over there somewhere, but playing teams we know in TEXAS is another story. This could be fun!

I think your confusing "rivalry" with "unacceptable-loss-to-an-FBS-startup".

If we lose to UTSA this year, then yes, the rivalry will be created, but it will be for all the wrong reasons.

untjim1995 · February 6, 2013

So the results of the 10 games before we play UTSA next year mean nothing? If we are bowl eligible before playing the UTSA game, but lose, you want heads to roll or you will stop supporting your school? I really do not get statements like yours. For me, I'll take the games one at a time and hope that we only lose to UTSA next year. I'll take those types of results and would hope that those in charge would get an extension instead of cutting bait because we lost to a particular team I felt was beneath our greatness(Not saying I feel UTSA is beneath us in any way other than being a newer program).

Reading is hard...I said if we lose to them, MOST LIKELY it will mean we will have a losing record. Obviously, if we went 8-4, but lost to UTSA, no one would lose their job. But the reality is that if we los to UTSA in football this season, we aren't going to have more than 2 wins, in my opinion. There is no way a brand new FBS program should beat our team.

As far as supporting your school, drop it already. The clear majority of students and alumni don't even give $.02 to this university's athletic department. For those of us that have given 20+ years of our fandom to our alma mater, only to see the school barely act like they care about athletics has been difficult, to say the least. We want to see the program progress forward--losing to UTSA is moving backwards. Now, if we move backwards by only winning 3-4 games this year, but we beat UTSA, I know that McCarney will be back. But if we go 3-9 or worse, with one of those losses being to UTSA, that should be enough for the university to realize that a change needs to be made. If that still didn't happen, that is telling all of us, young and old, that we just aren't serious about winning here, just funding something for lip service. Some on here have been following this program for over 40 and 50 years. Their patience to endure this stuff is amazing, but I know that in my 23 years of following UNT, the payback as a fan has been much less than it has to my friends who have attended any other FBS school in Texas, not including UTSA or Texas State. Sure, I loved the NO Bowls, but with the exception of the three years we had a winning team as a FBS team, as well as falling to the absolute bottom of FBS football under Todd Dodge, has just eroded any extra patience that I had.

I love Coach McCarney and I believe in him. I think he will turn it around this year. Even he will tell you that he knows this year is critical to moving forward. He has expectations that I think are higher than a lot of people around the university. I think this is all a moot point, and that I am wasting time ranting about this. But that gets to the reality of my fandom--I want the unviersity to continue to show us all that we want more out of our program. Just because we built a great stadium finally and went out and paid a higher salary for an experienced coach, doesn't mean that is enough. If you are playing FBS football, you have to pay to compete at that level. If you don't, the other programs just pass you by. Part of that is not accepting subpar results on the field, even if it means buying out extra years of a contract, rather than just waiting an extra year so the buyout will be much less. Keeping Dodge that extra year cost the university in on-field results, in recruiting, and in support. Not paying an extra $275k above the buyout he got for leaving with just one year on his contract certainly cost us a lot more in the end. Now, Coach McCarney is dealing with the repercussions of that short-sighted thinking that has haunted this place forever. I'm sorry, but if we see UTSA pass us by in w/l records in the next few years, after starting a football program from scratch just a few years ago, that would tell me that we don't belong in the FBS world. When we lost to startups in Florida, it was bad enough, but we knew that the state of Florida has so much talent that they had room for new schools to grow up quickly. Here in Texas, we have 12 teams as FBS programs now. If the two new ones pass us by, I really have to ask the question of why we can't do what they could do so soon. And the simple answer would seem to be because we just don't want to as a university. If that is the case, and the proof would be in the pudding in that point, IMO, all of us need to ask if we should be playing at this level. But, again, I don't believe this will be the case. I expect that we will beat UTSA like a drum for many years to come and I believe we will see progress this year to get to 5 or more wins and that we will get better over the next few years to the point where we will be competitive at the top of CUSA.

Edited February 6, 2013 by untjim1995

casual fan · February 6, 2013

I think your confusing "rivalry" with "unacceptable-loss-to-an-FBS-startup".

If we lose to UTSA this year, then yes, the rivalry will be created, but it will be for all the wrong reasons.

I get confused all the time.

See, I thought that since we will play them every year in the same conference, the same state, and it has fans so worked up about winning this particular game, that it could mean that a new rivalry has just been born. I'm not totally convinced they will be as bad a team as advertised.

UNT90 · February 6, 2013

Reading is hard...I said if we lose to them, MOST LIKELY it will mean we will have a losing record. Obviously, if we went 8-4, but lost to UTSA, no one would lose their job. But the reality is that if we los to UTSA in football this season, we aren't going to have more than 2 wins, in my opinion. There is no way a brand new FBS program should beat our team.

As far as supporting your school, drop it already. The clear majority of students and alumni don't even give $.02 to this university's athletic department. For those of us that have given 20+ years of our fandom to our alma mater, only to see the school barely act like they care about athletics has been difficult, to say the least. We want to see the program progress forward--losing to UTSA is moving backwards. Now, if we move backwards by only winning 3-4 games this year, but we beat UTSA, I know that McCarney will be back. But if we go 3-9 or worse, with one of those losses being to UTSA, that should be enough for the university to realize that a change needs to be made. If that still didn't happen, that is telling all of us, young and old, that we just aren't serious about winning here, just funding something for lip service. Some on here have been following this program for over 40 and 50 years. Their patience to endure this stuff is amazing, but I know that in my 23 years of following UNT, the payback as a fan has been much less than it has to my friends who have attended any other FBS school in Texas, not including UTSA or Texas State. Sure, I loved the NO Bowls, but with the exception of the three years we had a winning team as a FBS team, as well as falling to the absolute bottom of FBS football under Todd Dodge, has just eroded any extra patience that I had.

I love Coach McCarney and I believe in him. I think he will turn it around this year. Even he will tell you that he knows this year is critical to moving forward. He has expectations that I think are higher than a lot of people around the university. I think this is all a moot point, and that I am wasting time ranting about this. But that gets to the reality of my fandom--I want the unviersity to continue to show us all that we want more out of our program. Just because we built a great stadium finally and went out and paid a higher salary for an experienced coach, doesn't mean that is enough. If you are playing FBS football, you have to pay to compete at that level. If you don't, the other programs just pass you by. Part of that is not accepting subpar results on the field, even if it means buying out extra years of a contract, rather than just waiting an extra year so the buyout will be much less. Keeping Dodge that extra year cost the university in on-field results, in recruiting, and in support. Not paying an extra $275k above the buyout he got for leaving with just one year on his contract certainly cost us a lot more in the end. Now, Coach McCarney is dealing with the repercussions of that short-sighted thinking that has haunted this place forever. I'm sorry, but if we see UTSA pass us by in w/l records in the next few years, after starting a football program from scratch just a few years ago, that would tell me that we don't belong in the FBS world. When we lost to startups in Florida, it was bad enough, but we knew that the state of Florida has so much talent that they had room for new schools to grow up quickly. Here in Texas, we have 12 teams as FBS programs now. If the two new ones pass us by, I really have to ask the question of why we can't do what they could do so soon. And the simple answer would seem to be because we just don't want to as a university. If that is the case, and the proof would be in the pudding in that point, IMO, all of us need to ask if we should be playing at this level. But, again, I don't believe this will be the case. I expect that we will beat UTSA like a drum for many years to come and I believe we will see progress this year to get to 5 or more wins and that we will get better over the next few years to the point where we will be competitive at the top of CUSA.

Excellent post. I think you capture the feeling of many a hardcore fan of UNT sports, or at least you should have.

I'm not quite as optimistic about this year's record, but everything else is a x 100.

YouCanUseaMint · February 6, 2013

We've been there, y'all... and it isn't fun. Do NOT underestimate them.

Rudy · February 7, 2013

This is true. The rent comes with free meatloaf too.

And tossed salad.

meangreener · February 7, 2013

There is no rivalry. You can't force one. And if there is, it'll be like the Cowboys and the Texans. One-sided rivalry, UTSA thinks it is a rivalry but it really isn't, because UNT fans don't care about them.

GL2Greatness · February 7, 2013

There is no rivalry. You can't force one. And if there is, it'll be like the Cowboys and the Texans. One-sided rivalry, north Texas thinks it is a rivalry but it really isn't, because SMU fans don't care about them.

meangreener · February 7, 2013

I'd beg to differ. SMU, the school that still calls us NTSU and North Texas Community College on their forums? Shows obvious care.

KRAM1 · February 7, 2013

There is no rivalry. You can't force one. And if there is, it'll be like the Cowboys and the Texans. One-sided rivalry, UTSA thinks it is a rivalry but it really isn't, because UNT fans don't care about them.

Not sure one can speak for the whole. But, rivalry or not, I am glad UNT has this in-state conference mate. Easy away game commute, great place to visit and there is a decent possibility that UTSA fans will come to Apogee and help fill seats, pay for parking, buy concessions and spend money with local businesses. All good in my book. Bring on the Road Runners of UTSA!

And, it's a winnable game. I like!

casual fan · February 7, 2013

There is no rivalry. You can't force one. And if there is, it'll be like the Cowboys and the Texans. One-sided rivalry, UTSA thinks it is a rivalry but it really isn't, because UNT fans don't care about them.

After reading 5 heated pages on what UTSA is going to do or not do next year, I guess it proves UNT fans don't care about them.

Bottom line is we need rivals. The fact that we don't have any speaks volumes. We need to get a rivalry going if it takes trash talk or going down to San Antonio and mooning them. (Ok, the mooning thing might be a little over the top, but you get my point.)

oldguystudent · February 7, 2013

(Ok, the mooning thing might be a little over the top)

I think it might be a bit more under the bottom, but that's just me.

untjim1995 · February 7, 2013

I don't care about UTSA--I just think their ceiling is really high on where they can go if they start winning quickly. I don't care about Texas State, either, but I think they have a chacne to look a lot like we did when we first got in the Sun Belt, being very competitive and winning the conference. NEither of them really matter to me, but for comparative sake, I think its good for North Texas to see how we are doing against two new FBS startups.

And I agree about SMU--they don't care about us, but we are easy to make fun of since we are always trying to creat a rivalry with them that they have shown time and time again not to want. Their chief rival will always be TCU. They have rivalries with Tulsa, Tulane, and Rice. They have a rivalry with UH. Maybe one day we will be on that list, but you have to actually play each other for more than two games to get a decent two-way rivalry going. And it has to create headlines in the media and cause near capacity attendance.

We aren't UTSAs rival, nor are we SMUs rival. We aren't anyone's rival in football. You could say we have a rivalry with UTA in basketball, but that's about it. And even that one doesn't really create much heat amongst the UNT citizenry. When UTA comes to town, we get about 2500 to 3000 at the 10,000 seat Super Pit. I suspect that when UTSA comes here in football or we go there, the attendance will be in the 20k range for either home team, until we both are winning. Our students and alumni overwhelmingly care about the opponent, otherwise, they won't come out to watch. When we play a former SWC team, its a big crowd. When we play a bigger name AQ team at home, we get a good crowd. When we don't, we get 15k-18k for announced crowds when we play SBC teams. I doubt very seriously that will change much now that much of the SBC and WAC have moved into CUSA.

We are in a winner's market--the pro teams show us this, just as winning at TCU has shown us. The DFW fans care about perception, which is probably not any different than most metro areas. Our perception has been crippled by i-aa and low level FBS conference play for the last 30+ years. You just can't beat teams from your conference that no one cares about in this state. And you cannot continuously get slaughtered by the huge AQ names that we play each year for our $$$ game. Call them douche fans or bandwagoners or T-shirt fans, but the only way to get them involved in your program is to beat people they have heard of, or at least play competitively against the biggest names in the game.

Edited February 7, 2013 by untjim1995

kalebschumann · February 7, 2013

I'm going to enjoy hating them! It will be a closer rivalry than WKU. I'm trying with all my heart to move my WKU hatred to UTSA. Even though we haven't played them yet, there's plenty to build a rivalry over:

-Same state

-Same conference

-They seem to be like the youngest sibling: get everything they want way before we -the older sibling- ever did

-They actually won some games this year (doesn't matter who they played, they got wins)

-Our stadiums are on the same Highway (basically)

I'm quite excited. And if they are as negligible as some people think, then it will be a pretty fun (for UNT) rivalry for the next few years.

I'm going to throw UTSA into the category of my personally most hated teams (along with Green Bay Packers, WKU, Chicago Bears, New York Yankees, Detroit Red Wings, SMU, the Spurs, and the Lakers).

Edited February 7, 2013 by kalebschumann

MeanGreenTexan · February 7, 2013

I'll personally welcome a 'rivalry' with UTEP, LA Tech, and Rice, (as well as Tulsa if they stay) before I would be excited about a 'rivalry' with UTSA.

Mean Green 93-98 · February 7, 2013

I'm going to throw UTSA into the category of my personally most hated teams (along with Green Bay Packers, WKU, Chicago Bears, New York Yankees, Detroit Red Wings, SMU, the Spurs, and the Lakers).

Must be a Vikings fan.