We are gonna be REALLY embarrassed

emmitt01 · January 18, 2013

When Tony Mitchell looks infinitely better against NBA competition than he did at NT...because he has a coach with a clue.

Andrew and some of the others will have to keep trotting out that he was wasn't "mature" for a single season of his basketball career...inexplicably...and we'll continue our death march in 2013.

UNT90 · January 18, 2013

Come on, now. We all know Tony was mature in the Lebron camp, where he was just about the consensus best player, but that doesn't mean he would be mature a mere 3 months later, dude.

You know, some kids get less mature in 3 months and then magically mature the next year. It's a medical condition. Think it's called Benforditis.

H-towngreen · January 18, 2013

Remember that one time he played for team USA?

greenminer · January 18, 2013

Remember that one time he played for team USA?

Remember that tournament where he graded out as the 2nd most efficient player in the entire field? Those crappy players and coaches got nothing on Benford and the Belt.

KRAM1 · January 18, 2013

No, I will in no way be embarrassed. Nothing for anyone except Mitchell to be embarrassed if this is the way it turns out. I hope it does...having the TV guys say "T MItch from the University of North Texas" will be music to my ears.

I guess some folks think it has something to do with them...maybe that's why they get embarrassed so easily.....and often.

Edit: Ha! I see at least one person does think it is about them. Too funny.

OOPS! Now two!

:goodjob:

Edited January 18, 2013 by KRAM1

foutsrouts · January 18, 2013

No, I will in no way be embarrassed. Nothing for anyone except Mitchell to be embarrassed if this is the way it turns out. I hope it does... having the TV guys say "T MItch from the University of North Texas" will be music to my ears.

I guess some folks think it has something to do with them...maybe that's why they get embarrassed so easily.....and often.

At least maybe now they will no longer feel obligated to include Missouri in that sentence.

Quoner · January 18, 2013

No, I will in no way be embarrassed. Nothing for anyone except Mitchell to be embarrassed if this is the way it turns out. I hope it does...having the TV guys say "T MItch from the University of North Texas" will be music to my ears.

I guess some folks think it has something to do with them...maybe that's why they get embarrassed so easily.....and often.

Edit: Ha! I see at least one person does think it is about them. Too funny.

Why would Mitchell be embarrassed if he lights up the NBA after having a great season here before Benford? I know you've dug in the last few weeks, but it's okay to go back towards the middle of things. No one will judge you.

KRAM1 · January 18, 2013

Why would Mitchell be embarrassed if he lights up the NBA after having a great season here before Benford? I know you've dug in the last few weeks, but it's okay to go back towards the middle of things. No one will judge you.

Perhaps because he would realize that he could have been lighting far inferior Sunbelt players and teams as well...just wasn't. That is a fact...like it or not...cover for these guys all you want....but, you might want to check out that middle for yourself as well. Really, might be a good idea to listen to yourself here....don't hate me because I tell you the truth!

Quoner · January 18, 2013

Perhaps because he would realize that he could have been lighting far inferior Sunbelt players and teams as well...just wasn't. That is a fact...like it or not...cover for these guys all you want....but, you might want to check out that middle for yourself as well. Really, might be a good idea to listen to yourself here....don't hate me because I tell you the truth!

Didn't know I was out here giving hot, fresh, rogue opinions daily. I've been trying to mostly stay clear of it because it accomplishes nothing. I think we even talked about that a little at the UTA game, but I'll try to dial it back this crazy edginess and stop covering for the players by questioning the logic of your individual scenario.

Meanwhile, carry on with your totally non-agenda'd posts about Mitchell.

MeanGreenTexan · January 18, 2013

Perhaps because he would realize that he could have been lighting far inferior Sunbelt players and teams as well...just wasn't. That is a fact...like it or not...cover for these guys all you want....but, you might want to check out that middle for yourself as well. Really, might be a good idea to listen to yourself here....don't hate me because I tell you the truth!

Kram,

I'm hoping that YOU will be embarrassed when coach Benford is gone next year and you support a new coach, watch our guys suddenly get back to playing at their 2011-2012 level of play or better, yet your support of Benford over the players this season is still out on the internet for all to see.

Of course, you probably wont be embarrassed when coach Benford is still here next year, and our 3 most talented players leave, and the results remain the same, if not get worse in 2013-2014.

NT03 · January 18, 2013

..having the TV guys say "T MItch from the University of North Texas" will be music to my ears :

Not a chance that happens

They will say North Texas State !!!

MeanMag · January 18, 2013

Perhaps because he would realize that he could have been lighting far inferior Sunbelt players and teams as well...just wasn't. That is a fact...like it or not...cover for these guys all you want....but, you might want to check out that middle for yourself as well. Really, might be a good idea to listen to yourself here....don't hate me because I tell you the truth!

Did u go to the game kram?

Shark84 · January 18, 2013

_{I usually stay out of all the negative posts and petty pissing matches but I'm a teacher/coach in Denton ISD and I really get tired of everyone always making excuses for kids when they don't perform well. I'm extremely disappointed with what I've seen from Coach Benford and unless something changes next year, he will probably be gone. I thought he was a great hire last summer. Every college hoops website I looked at said he was one of the brightest young coaching prospects out there, so I don't fault Rick V. on the hire. It was a sound hire that just hasn't worked out. That being said, the players must be held accountable as well. Tony not scoring last night is inexcusable if he truely is a lottery pick. I don't care who is coaching, 2 rebounds for a player with his ability is NOT the coach's fault. That is hustle and nothing else. Benford hasn't seemed to affect Roger's effort. Maybe that says something about how great a competitor Franklin is, but it doesn't let Mitchell off the hook. Great athletes and great players aren't always the same thing. Tony is a great athlete but now is the time he must show his leadership and character and show NBA scouts that he can become a great PLAYER. Benford has made a lot of mistakes but please hold players accountable for their hustle and attitude on the court.}

H-towngreen · January 18, 2013

_{I usually stay out of all the negative posts and petty pissing matches but I'm a teacher/coach in Denton ISD and I really get tired of everyone always making excuses for kids when they don't perform well. I'm extremely disappointed with what I've seen from Coach Benford and unless something changes next year, he will probably be gone. I thought he was a great hire last summer. Every college hoops website I looked at said he was one of the brightest young coaching prospects out there, so I don't fault Rick V. on the hire. It was a sound hire that just hasn't worked out. That being said, the players must be held accountable as well. Tony not scoring last night is inexcusable if he truely is a lottery pick. I don't care who is coaching, 2 rebounds for a player with his ability is NOT the coach's fault. That is hustle and nothing else. Benford hasn't seemed to affect Roger's effort. Maybe that says something about how great a competitor Franklin is, but it doesn't let Mitchell off the hook. Great athletes and great players aren't always the same thing. Tony is a great athlete but now is the time he must show his leadership and character and show NBA scouts that he can become a great PLAYER. Benford has made a lot of mistakes but please hold players accountable for their hustle and attitude on the court.}

We do hold the players accountable but when you look at what this team did last season and what we added the majority of the fault has to lie with the coaches

Shark84 · January 18, 2013

If that makes you feel better, that's fine. If Tony doesn't make it in the NBA will that be the coaches fault as well?

CMJ · January 18, 2013

_{I usually stay out of all the negative posts and petty pissing matches but I'm a teacher/coach in Denton ISD and I really get tired of everyone always making excuses for kids when they don't perform well. I'm extremely disappointed with what I've seen from Coach Benford and unless something changes next year, he will probably be gone. I thought he was a great hire last summer. Every college hoops website I looked at said he was one of the brightest young coaching prospects out there, so I don't fault Rick V. on the hire. It was a sound hire that just hasn't worked out. That being said, the players must be held accountable as well. Tony not scoring last night is inexcusable if he truely is a lottery pick. I don't care who is coaching, 2 rebounds for a player with his ability is NOT the coach's fault. That is hustle and nothing else. Benford hasn't seemed to affect Roger's effort. Maybe that says something about how great a competitor Franklin is, but it doesn't let Mitchell off the hook. Great athletes and great players aren't always the same thing. Tony is a great athlete but now is the time he must show his leadership and character and show NBA scouts that he can become a great PLAYER. Benford has made a lot of mistakes but please hold players accountable for their hustle and attitude on the court.}

My girlfriend is a HS chemistry teacher. She thinks most primary teachers are awful and unprepared when they reach her. She doesn't blame the kids as much as previous teachers. So, going by that logic, all the previous coaches these kids had must have sucked. Which is odd because they did so much better last year.

Teaching and coaching are similar,but I don't think it's a exact comparison.

Quoner · January 18, 2013

Perhaps because he would realize that he could have been lighting far inferior Sunbelt players and teams as well...just wasn't. That is a fact...like it or not...cover for these guys all you want....but, you might want to check out that middle for yourself as well. Really, might be a good idea to listen to yourself here....don't hate me because I tell you the truth!

Reset a bit, because this has become a construct where the players are blameless. They are not, and it is obvious what is happening involves heir effort as well. It's really chicken or an egg theory about coaching. Is it the coach's job to get the most out of the players and prepare them for situations or the players job to perform. The sticking point for me is the kids SEEM - and preface it with a giant SEEM - don't seem to be utilized or in that position, and the frustration/confusion is carrying over to other aspects of their game.

I think each person has their own theories on the root cause of that, but you're right that this shouldn't just be one or the other. Everything is broken now, so we all win, er, lose!

Still 7-12 - as much as it sucks and how bad it feels, there's still time and talent to salvage it. Maybe?

foutsrouts · January 18, 2013

The only way I see this thing turning around is if we can find a way for TM and JW to start going to the hole with regularity. Neither one of them going to the FT line one single time last night is not a good sign.

KRAM1 · January 18, 2013

Kram,
I'm hoping that YOU will be embarrassed when coach Benford is gone next year and you support a new coach, watch our guys suddenly get back to playing at their 2011-2012 level of play or better, yet your support of Benford over the players this season is still out on the internet for all to see.

Of course, you probably wont be embarrassed when coach Benford is still here next year, and our 3 most talented players leave, and the results remain the same, if not get worse in 2013-2014.

Well, thanks for the encouragement. NOPE would not be embarrassed either way. If you would be I am just sorry for you...you obviously have no clue and don't read my posts fully nd completely. never have I absolved benford in his role in all this...show me where I have if you can...but, unlike others, i do not make excuses for those that are obviously not palying anywhere near their ablities. If you like that sort of attituide...fine. It's called a diference of opinion. I can live with yours...you guys just don't seem to have the ability to understand that someone might just disagree with you and that doing so is, well, OK.

I am NEVER embarrased by UNT, nor embarrased by any personal opinion that I hold (and I have been known to change my opinuion when additional deatails become known to me...even then...never embarrassed)...ever. There is noting to be embarrased about...even if all this stuff that will be "still out there on the internet for all to see". Such a silly statement.

KRAM1 · January 18, 2013

Did u go to the game kram?

Which game? Been to all the home games (have you?)...watched others on TV and/or internet. As I recall...lots of folks have opinions about this without ever attending a game...home or away. Seems to not matter to them...why do you ask?

Edited January 18, 2013 by KRAM1

MeanGreenTexan · January 18, 2013

Well, thanks for the encouragement. NOPE would not be embarrassed either way. If you would be I am just sorry for you...you obviously have no clue and don't read my posts fully nd completely. never have I absolved benford in his role in all this...show me where I have if you can...but, unlike others, i do not make excuses for those that are obviously not palying anywhere near their ablities. If you like that sort of attituide...fine. It's called a diference of opinion. I can live with yours...you guys just don't seem to have the ability to understand that someone might just disagree with you and that doing so is, well, OK.

I am NEVER embarrased by UNT, nor embarrased by any personal opinion that I hold (and I have been known to change my opinuion when additional deatails become known to me...even then...never embarrassed)...ever. There is noting to be embarrased about...even if all this stuff that will be "still out there on the internet for all to see". Such a silly statement.

Please indicate where you have criticized Benfords ability? I don't think you have. But there has been plenty of finger-pointing at players (Mitchell in particular).

The title of the thread contains the word embarrassed. I know you'll never be embarrassed. Nor will I. That's probably a poor term.

You have a record of instantly jumping on board with whatever hire is made and supporting that coach. I'm guilty of this as well. I think most of us are, because deep down, we want that new coach to succeed.

However, I think that if everyone were as supportive as you are, we would probably still have Todd Dodge/Shanice Stephens and the other coaches who proved to be failures... although Dodge probably wouldn't have been renewed :ermm: . Instead, many folks recognize failures and speak out on them to put pressure on them. Right now, the pressure needs to be intense on Benford because this season is setting up to be a failure.

I just don't understand how these same players would regress so poorly in the short span of 8 months. The only variable is the coach/coaches. I think that's why the scrutiny comes on him so hard.

And piggybacking on Quoner's thoughts, I think the players have recognized the failures, know where they SHOULD be, and are unhappy with where they are. Is their collective effort at 100%? No, and this is only perpetuating the problem.

To borrow from a favorite Mean Green Basketball Meme:

CAN things change over the next 2 months? Yes!

WILL things change? Not looking good.

I certainly respect your opinion/stance, only because I know the intent behind it (the betterment of UNT basketball), but I just don't agree. :flowers:

KRAM1 · January 18, 2013

Please indicate where you have criticized Benfords ability? I don't think you have. But there has been plenty of finger-pointing at players (Mitchell in particular).

The title of the thread contains the word embarrassed. I know you'll never be embarrassed. Nor will I. That's probably a poor term.

You have a record of instantly jumping on board with whatever hire is made and supporting that coach. I'm guilty of this as well. I think most of us are, because deep down, we want that new coach to succeed.

However, I think that if everyone were as supportive as you are, we would probably still have Todd Dodge/Shanice Stephens and the other coaches who proved to be failures... although Dodge probably wouldn't have been renewed . Instead, many folks recognize failures and speak out on them to put pressure on them. Right now, the pressure needs to be intense on Benford because this season is setting up to be a failure.

I just don't understand how these same players would regress so poorly in the short span of 8 months. The only variable is the coach/coaches. I think that's why the scrutiny comes on him so hard.

And piggybacking on Quoner's thoughts, I think the players have recognized the failures, know where they SHOULD be, and are unhappy with where they are. Is their collective effort at 100%? No, and this is only perpetuating the problem.

To borrow from a favorite Mean Green Basketball Meme:

CAN things change over the next 2 months? Yes!

WILL things change? Not looking good.

I certainly respect your opinion/stance, only because I know the intent behind it (the betterment of UNT basketball), but I just don't agree.

You are more than welcome to your opinions...I am not going to do your work for you. If you want to see where I have stated on several occasions that I was not absolving Benford in all this go look through the threads. Not my job to do that for you...you accused me of never pointing a finger at Benford...so that's your job...not mine.

Don't accuse me of something unless you have the facts to back it up...please and thank you.

It may be a poor term but you told me that you hoped I would be embarrassed. Sort of personal, don't you think? And, all because I hold a different opinion on something than you! Nice. Why, when I share this opinion, do folks want me embarrassed and jump me when others say the exact same thing and go without reply? Seems sort of personal to me, so that's why i am only responding to posts like this one and not discussing this whole BB team thing on the board any longer...want to discuss it further with me...PM me...I'm done with folks who think it's only OK to have an opinion if you have the same opinion they do...otherwise it becomes personal. Not good...

MeanGreenMusic · January 19, 2013

He's not going to be double or triple teamed just about every time he touches the ball anywhere near the paint when he is in the NBA. It will not be at all surprising if he looks much more effectively utilized in the NBA for that reason alone. He's not going to be the single most important player on the court every game. Every opposing team's #1 defensive goal coming in to every game won't be "contain Tony Mitchell." I'm not a fan of Benford either folks, I just think the premise of this thread is a bit misguided.

Green P1 · January 19, 2013

I hate that the happy optimistic confines of the Basketball Forum have been so Benford'd.

CurveItAround · January 19, 2013

Although I started the season leaning toward supporting managment (coaches) over workers (players), I a beginning to accept that I am not smart enough to figure out which is the root cause. From what I have witnessed so far, neither is turning out to be much to brag about. Therefore, I am willing to part with BOTH Tonys at the end of the year if the team results don't improve by the end of the season. I have been extremely disappointed in the results produced from BOTH Benford and Mitchell so far. #theyhaveBOTHsucked #andthrowCJintherealso

I expected these guys to be our leaders, not our dead weight.