Big East may target Tulsa

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Tulsa wants to hang with privates...

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

As I understand it, Tulsa already told the Big East no a while back. But, in a couple of interviews since then it appears that they might reconsider to stay with SMU, Houston, and Tulane. My guess is they also lobby on behalf of Rice if this is the case.

Whatever is happening, we will not be in a more competitive conference. My worry is the bowl tie-ins as well. What are these bowls going to do with the C-USA losing its power players?

In the end, I think that after Tulsa, Big East, Rice and whomever else decide to do what they do, Sun Belt and C-USA need to just find a way to make two geographically logical conferences.

My opinion of New Mexico State after learning that they have no intention of holding their football coach to any standard other than having a cohesive lockerroom should be in no one's discussion. If they care so little about it, I don't even know why they bother with the cost. Just drop to DIII in football and let any athletic money go to Aggie basketball.

[VideoEagle]

As I understand it, Tulsa already told the Big East no a while back. But, in a couple of interviews since then it appears that they might reconsider to stay with SMU, Houston, and Tulane. My guess is they also lobby on behalf of Rice if this is the case.

Whatever is happening, we will not be in a more competitive conference. My worry is the bowl tie-ins as well. What are these bowls going to do with the C-USA losing its power players?

In the end, I think that after Tulsa, Big East, Rice and whomever else decide to do what they do, Sun Belt and C-USA need to just find a way to make two geographically logical conferences.

My opinion of New Mexico State after learning that they have no intention of holding their football coach to any standard other than having a cohesive lockerroom should be in no one's discussion. If they care so little about it, I don't even know why they bother with the cost. Just drop to DIII in football and let any athletic money go to Aggie basketball.

I could be wrong, but I don't think you can be D3 for only one sport.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Good Grief! What the hell is wrong with Tulsa?

Exactly what do they think that they are gaining going to the Big East? Prestige? The nBE won't be a BCS conference after next year. Money? After the defection of the Catholic 7 the TV contract will drop dramatically. Probably to somewhere just above that of CUSA and the cost to them will be staggering. Competition? It should be better but they are in a much better position as the best of current CUSA than a contender in the nBE as far as a playoff berth.

And UMass? They'll have to get a special ruling to qualify as an FBS team since they've yet to have the 15,000 minimum attendance average.

You Just Cannot Make This Stuff Up (unless it involves UNT and another local university)!

I may now smell a skunk located right here in the Metroplex in some of this and his even possibly saying to the Big East Commish': "Get all the rest of the established schools in CUSA and make those Sun Belt'ers think twice about their thinking they've moved up the NCAA totem pole by our having left CUSA and they coming into CUSA to take our place."

Come on people, anyone think the Big East Commish could possibly be getting some extremely "helpful" tips from down Texas way to keep his conference together so a whole slew of schools who've already left CUSA don't get more egg on their faces as they have thus far with their "maybe not such a smart decision on our part" to have moved in the first place? So now as of today we are seeing the balance of CUSA's present membership (before expansion) with TV market or even with no TV market being mentioned for the new Big East; you know as in Rice U, USM, and now Tulsa? No one else curious about this new scenario at all? Oh yes, I'm sure I am completely over-reacting like many of us did last time North Texas wanted in CUSA and we were cold cocked by said local private university who preferred La Tech instead and stated as such in the DMN.

If CUSA loses Rice U, we are literally back to square one, folks. And yes, I know, we will find a way to spin it positive if all this materializes and if any of this (yes, I know) wild arsed theory actually comes to fruition, but I remember last time UNT wanted in CUSA and how one particular area university president touted La Tech to the Dallas Morning News as if they were the 2'nd coming of Notre Dame while............. NOT MENTIONING OUR SCHOOL'S NAME ONE FREAKIN' TIME?!?!?!? I would really hate if this is coming down like this but Metroplex college athletics history suggests that it very well could be within the realm of possibility.

So what the heck, I think I'm going to drive down to New Orleans (I don't fly) and have one of the locals there cast a black magic spell on a particular school in Dallas,Texas, America, who some of you still amazingly want to smoke the peace pipe with in spite of their continually (and historically) being a turd in our Mean Green punch bowl. I still hope the City of Dallas will keep on showing said school just how grossly un-interested they still are with anything they do athletically and they finally wave the white flag and drop down to intramural flag football status. (I only kid about the spell casting part from the BIg Easy, of course).

Still not saying that's totally what's happening here (and it is almost ridiculous to even post it here), but from past local college football history anybody know anyone here in the "D"FW Metroplex who would be capable of saying and doing such? Of course denials would be non-stop if what is slowly but surely happening here actually fell in place as described in this post, but some people out there just do their best work behind the backs of others, that's all. Sometimes they even bring a knife to insert after they've done their dirty work. Again, just a theory, but maybe the Big East commish' is getting some ideas from some down here in the Southwest and from one in particular who does not seem to be a fan of the UNT System.

And no, I don't think others were involved in the assassination of JFK, either.

GMG!

Edited January 7, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I could be wrong, but I don't think you can be D3 for only one sport.

Colorado College is D-I in hockey and women's soccer, DIII in all others.

Union College, also D-I in hockey, DIII in all other sports.

Rensselaer Polytechnic, D-I in hockey, DIII in all others.

Georgetown, D-I in basketball, DIII in all others.

Johns Hopkins, D-I in Lacrosse, DIII in all others.

Hartwick, D-I in men's soccer and women's waterpolo, DIII in all others.

There's no rule against it. New Mexico State doesn't care about competition. They are wasting money. College football is expensive. The Aggies have had strong basketball. Let basketball lead.

In fact, if NSMU cares so little about football, they should just drop it altogether like Pacific, Long Beach State, and Cal State Fullerton did in the past. Why waste time and money?

Edited January 7, 2013 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Close to home, Dallas Baptist is D-I in baseball only, D-II in everything else.

[DeepGreen]

You Just Cannot Make This Stuff Up (unless it involves UNT and another local university)!

I may now smell a skunk located right here in the Metroplex in some of this and his even possibly saying to the Big East Commish': "Get all the rest of the established schools in CUSA and make those Sun Belt'ers think twice about their thinking they've moved up the NCAA totem pole by our having left CUSA and they coming into CUSA to take our place."

Come on people, anyone think the Big East Commish could possibly be getting some extremely "helpful" tips from down Texas way to keep his conference together so a whole slew of schools who've already left CUSA don't get more egg on their faces as they have thus far with their "maybe not such a smart decision on our part" to have moved in the first place? So now as of today we are seeing the balance of CUSA's present membership (before expansion) with TV market or even with no TV market being mentioned for the new Big East; you know as in Rice U, USM, and now Tulsa? No one else curious about this new scenario at all? Oh yes, I'm sure I am completely over-reacting like many of us did last time North Texas wanted in CUSA and we were cold cocked by said local private university who preferred La Tech instead and stated as such in the DMN.

If CUSA loses Rice U, we are literally back to square one, folks. And yes, I know, we will find a way to spin it positive if all this materializes and if any of this (yes, I know) wild arsed theory actually comes to fruition, but I remember last time UNT wanted in CUSA and how one particular area university president touted La Tech to the Dallas Morning News as if they were the 2'nd coming of Notre Dame while............. NOT MENTIONING OUR SCHOOL'S NAME ONE FREAKIN' TIME?!?!?!? I would really hate if this is coming down like this but Metroplex college athletics history suggests that it very well could be within the realm of possibility.

So what the heck, I think I'm going to drive down to New Orleans (I don't fly) and have one of the locals there cast a black magic spell on a particular school in Dallas,Texas, America, who some of you still amazingly want to smoke the peace pipe with in spite of their continually (and historically) being a turd in our Mean Green punch bowl. I still hope the City of Dallas will keep on showing said school just how grossly un-interested they still are with anything they do athletically and they finally wave the white flag and drop down to intramural flag football status. (I only kid about the spell casting part from the BIg Easy, of course).

Still not saying that's totally what's happening here (and it is almost ridiculous to even post it here), but from past local college football history anybody know anyone here in the "D"FW Metroplex who would be capable of saying and doing such? Of course denials would be non-stop if what is slowly but surely happening here actually fell in place as described in this post, but some people out there just do their best work behind the backs of others, that's all. Sometimes they even bring a knife to insert after they've done their dirty work. Again, just a theory, but maybe the Big East commish' is getting some ideas from some down here in the Southwest and from one in particular who does not seem to be a fan of the UNT System.

And no, I don't think others were involved in the assassination of JFK, either.

GMG!

Plummer, I don't think it's any one school trying to keep UNT and others out of their conference clubs. I think the FBS football world, particularly to current and former members of CUSA, the old WAC elites, and certainly the Big East elites firmly believe that being associated with anyone out of the Sun Belt is similar to being exposed to leprosy. Once CUSA heard that UNT, La Tech, UTSA, etc. were going to replace those members moving to that elite Big East, they left the CUSA ship like a pack of rats. First ECU, then Tulane. And we can talk all day about how the Sun Belt has improved and how well the Sun Belt did in bowl games, etc., the fact is, no one respects the Sun Belt.

[Side Show Joe]

I don't think anyone is surpised to see Tulsa is a top target. C-USA West has a nice lineup, but I can understand why Tulsa would want to get a spot in the NBE.

Still too many "if" posibilities for us to see how this is going to effect UNT.

[North Texas Shep]

I just went and checked out the Tulsa fan board and they all seem to be all about the Big East. Also, they think they need to be with SMU (I guess for the private school rivalry). Oh, and Coog King is also on that board and just as annoying.

[oldguystudent]

You can play up in a sport, usually hockey or men's volleyball. You can't field all D1 sports and lower than FCS football. Some of the schools in the Big West used to do that, and the NCAA shut it down around 1991 or so.

[ragpicker]

One more disappointment after another. Being snake bit is one thing, people generally get over snake bites, but there seems to be something in our DNA that works against us. Perhaps our fate is in the stars and not in ourselves for there is something truly tragic about North Texas athletics. God bless poor old Scrappy anyway.

[shaft]

Let' s recap. According to Andy Katz.

SDSU to the MWC.

SMU & Houston to stay in the Big East.

BYU & UTEP are on the MWC radar, but BYU is staying independent.

Tulsa, UMass, S Miss and Rice are on the Big East radar.

So it would stand to reason the MWC doesn't need want UTEP without BYU.

The Big East may want 2 teams to replace Boise and SDSU, and may need two more to buffer against future defections.

So if the axe drops...

New Big East (16)

West: Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Rice, Tulane S Miss, Memphis, +1

East: UMass, Temple, UConn, ECU, UCF, USF, Cincy, Navy

New CUSA (12)

West: UTEP, UNT, UTSA, LA Tech, MTSU, +1

East: Marshall, ODU, UNC-C, FIU, FAU, +1

[Side Show Joe]

The only problem we have at UNT is we don't win enough. We are not cursed. No other program can hold us back. Our future has always been in our hands. The hands of the UNT alumi, students, and administration. We just have to win against the teams in our conference and the better teams on our schedules. As alumi and fans, we just need to support our university as best we can, and always be proud of our connections to UNT. Of course ya'll already know this. There is one thing I know about true Mean Green fans, and that is, we don't quit. This football program will become the institution we all know it can be. I believe that.

[wardly]

As I understand it, Tulsa already told the Big East no a while back. But, in a couple of interviews since then it appears that they might reconsider to stay with SMU, Houston, and Tulane. My guess is they also lobby on behalf of Rice if this is the case.

Whatever is happening, we will not be in a more competitive conference. My worry is the bowl tie-ins as well. What are these bowls going to do with the C-USA losing its power players?

In the end, I think that after Tulsa, Big East, Rice and whomever else decide to do what they do, Sun Belt and C-USA need to just find a way to make two geographically logical conferences.

My opinion of New Mexico State after learning that they have no intention of holding their football coach to any standard other than having a cohesive lockerroom should be in no one's discussion. If they care so little about it, I don't even know why they bother with the cost. Just drop to DIII in football and let any athletic money go to Aggie basketball.

Don't think they want or need Rice as they have Houston.Rice brings nothing to the table. The new CUSA and Belt should merge,leaving ULM and Georgia State in the dust.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Plummer, I don't think it's any one school trying to keep UNT and others out of their conference clubs. I think the FBS football world, particularly to current and former members of CUSA, the old WAC elites, and certainly the Big East elites firmly believe that being associated with anyone out of the Sun Belt is similar to being exposed to leprosy. Once CUSA heard that UNT, La Tech, UTSA, etc. were going to replace those members moving to that elite Big East, they left the CUSA ship like a pack of rats. First ECU, then Tulane. And we can talk all day about how the Sun Belt has improved and how well the Sun Belt did in bowl games, etc., the fact is, no one respects the Sun Belt.

Again, only a theory and really one not worth dwelling on (and I won't) but for those of us on this board (including you, Phil) who have seen local NCAA conference re-alignment politics in action since the 70's still know to the person that this theory (as out there as it seems) is still one that could actually well be within the realm of possibility considering all the players in Dallas' past attitudes toward UNT. Theory or not, it's not going change anything for North Texas whose upside here in the enormous DFW market is almost at the scary level, but who will take us to that level?

UNT will still have to put our faces to the wind and do whatever we can do on our own because we are not going to get help in high NCAA places. Seems Boise State did just that and now look at them? Hell, they've become the Texas of the MWC demanding all those TV extras (while getting them) and every bit of that at the expense of many MWC schools who have been around for awhile who will be the ones taking the financial hit.

Looking back you'd think at times we have all but worked overtime trying to not be successful up there with our past leaders unbelievable chain of terrifically bad hires as the culprits in this. And I look at newer generations now posting on this forum who have never seen a UNT HFC who left Denton above .500 in wins/losses who it seems many times keeps supporting such mediocrity because (quite frankly) that is all they've known or have ever seen.

. Even as I look at our recruitment of QB's the last 40 or so years, you'd think that we could have accidently every once in a while recruited a Terry Bradshaw, a Drew Bries and others similar who fell thru the cracks of not being recruited and just falling in our laps, but that has not happened in Denton. Then you have schools from Lousiana who seem to have no problem recruiting QB's who can make a real difference in a game; such as ULM's Bubbie Brister, Stan Humphries both of whom played in the NFL and now ULM's Kolton Browning of late. They say you make your own luck but sometimes you just need to get lucky and recruit a kid who literally exceeds all expectation going beond the realm and almost single-handedly taking a footballl program to unexpected levels. This school has been doing it lately on a shoestring budget BUT....$400,000 more revenue than who? And could that possibly be true? If so....well.... (Read the entire link below to see).

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2012/9/25/3386352/louisiana-monroe-football-2012

GMG!

Edited January 8, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[Arkstfan]

Colorado College is D-I in hockey and women's soccer, DIII in all others.

Union College, also D-I in hockey, DIII in all other sports.

Rensselaer Polytechnic, D-I in hockey, DIII in all others.

Georgetown, D-I in basketball, DIII in all others.

Johns Hopkins, D-I in Lacrosse, DIII in all others.

Hartwick, D-I in men's soccer and women's waterpolo, DIII in all others.

There's no rule against it. New Mexico State doesn't care about competition. They are wasting money. College football is expensive. The Aggies have had strong basketball. Let basketball lead.

In fact, if NSMU cares so little about football, they should just drop it altogether like Pacific, Long Beach State, and Cal State Fullerton did in the past. Why waste time and money?

Actually there is a rule against it.

In football, if you are a Division I school, you have to play Division I football. That is why you have leagues like the Pioneer for non-scholarship FCS football. The DIII schools thought the Division schools had an unfair advantage bringing football recruits in when they were playing big name basketball schools.

A Division II or III can play up in Division I in one sport as long as that sport isn't football or basketball.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Don't think they want or need Rice as they have Houston.Rice brings nothing to the table.

Tulsa apparently likes their associations with the private schools. I wouldn't rule out their lobbying for Rice.

[NT91]

If Mississippi Southern, Rice and Tulsa go I would just stay in the SBC.

[DallasGreen]

Again, only a theory and really one not worth dwelling on (and I won't) but for those of us on this board (including you, Phil) who have seen local NCAA conference re-alignment politics in action since the 70's still know to the person that this theory (as out there as it seems) is still one that could actually well be within the realm of possibility considering all the players in Dallas' past attitudes toward UNT. Theory or not, it's not going change anything for North Texas whose upside here in the enormous DFW market is almost at the scary level, but who will take us to that level?

UNT will still have to put our faces to the wind and do whatever we can do on our own because we are not going to get help in high NCAA places. Seems Boise State did just that and now look at them? Hell, they've become the Texas of the MWC demanding all those TV extras (while getting them) and every bit of that at the expense of many MWC schools who have been around for awhile who will be the ones taking the financial hit.

Looking back you'd think at times we have all but worked overtime trying to not be successful up there with our past leaders unbelievable chain of terrifically bad hires as the culprits in this. And I look at newer generations now posting on this forum who have never seen a UNT HFC who left Denton above .500 in wins/losses who it seems many times keeps supporting such mediocrity because (quite frankly) that is all they've known or have ever seen.

. Even as I look at our recruitment of QB's the last 40 or so years, you'd think that we could have accidently every once in a while recruited a Terry Bradshaw, a Drew Bries and others similar who fell thru the cracks of not being recruited and just falling in our laps, but that has not happened in Denton. Then you have schools from Lousiana who seem to have no problem recruiting QB's who can make a real difference in a game; such as ULM's Bubbie Brister, Stan Humphries both of whom played in the NFL and now ULM's Kolton Browning of late. They say you make your own luck but sometimes you just need to get lucky and recruit a kid who literally exceeds all expectation going beond the realm and almost single-handedly taking a footballl program to unexpected levels. This school has been doing it lately on a shoestring budget BUT....$400,000 more revenue than who? And could that possibly be true? If so....well.... (Read the entire link below to see).

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2012/9/25/3386352/louisiana-monroe-football-2012

For those of us who have seen first hand the mucking up of UNT athletics that Dallas own "Harvard on the Hilltop" has reeked, we know that your "theory" is well based in past history. The thing most depressing to me is we seem content with a FIVE year building program. If it takes that long we will be back in the Southland conference. We need to win NOW. Anything less than 6 wins in 2013 is unacceptable. I'm tired of hearing coahes who blow smoke up fans' rears and then crash and burn (UNT BB come to mind??). I'm also tired of getting creamed by metroplex schools ( 2 lop sided losses to the likes of UTA in the past two seasons). If we don't show FB improvement fast the series with SMU that begins in 2014 could be the most embarrassing series ever scheduled by UNT. If we accept mediocrity to downright failure then the thing to do is let the 'stangs buy out the contract which they would readily do at a premium as there are always lots of $$$$$ @ Southern Money University. AS to Grey Eagle and others who choose to beg the ponies for crumbs from the table I would leave you with a good Southern expression describing the War of Northern Aggression---"FERGET HELL!!!!"

[NM Green]

What I don't distress about in our current situation is that we automatically have a better more equal image:

MWC - seen as premier league outside of the big leagues

CUSA - indifferent

Big East - terrible image

Sun Belt - same poor image

MAC - decent image - below MWC above CUSA

It is much much easier to rise out of a league that nobody is viewing as good or bad. It is simply there. The Big East is viewed as a tragic league now. Those programs are going to battle that image problem much like we did in the Sun Belt over the next decade. The Sun Belt can only continue to win and play with a chip on its shoulder. CUSA with wins by its members FAU, FIU, North Texas, La Tech, UTSA, Rice, Tulsa, UTEP can raise the profile of the conference more easily. Further we are all chasing the same apple.

Mean Green it doesn't matter where you live - just get there!

GMG

[PlummMeanGreen]

Like Harry so eloquently posted last week in his epistle I wish every Gang of 5 president could read (with Harry refining some of it as to not focus on any one school or school's poster); but it would best serve all of the Gang of 5 to have some level of detente or even solidarity because the Big Boy Conferences will look for any excuse to cut us all out of any potential additional revenues we might get no matter what conference any of our schools are members of.

Yes, it's about one upmanship always among our group, but as our late great friend and UNT alum Robert Wade Brown (Brown Foundation & Repairs) used to tell me and others at Dallas get-togethers....."we don't want to burn the barn down to kill the mouse." Constant in-fighting among the Gang of 5 would create that effect IMHO.

IMO, the Gang of 5 need to (with great haste) get a very strong consultant or over-seer to lobby for us non-stop with the Big Boy powers that be. Don't know if Chuck Neinas would be interested because he's retirement age but someone of that level, prestige, apparent respect with the Big Boys and with the kind of talent that we would need. Would also need that person to not only lobby for the Gang of 5's hopeful additional TV revenues but to also lobby for an 8 or 16 team NCAA FBS play-off, too. I know--one dream at at time.

GMG!

Edited January 8, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[wardly]

Let' s recap. According to Andy Katz.

SDSU to the MWC.

SMU & Houston to stay in the Big East.

BYU & UTEP are on the MWC radar, but BYU is staying independent.

Tulsa, UMass, S Miss and Rice are on the Big East radar.

So it would stand to reason the MWC doesn't need want UTEP without BYU.

The Big East may want 2 teams to replace Boise and SDSU, and may need two more to buffer against future defections.

So if the axe drops...

New Big East (16)

West: Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Rice, Tulane S Miss, Memphis, +1

East: UMass, Temple, UConn, ECU, UCF, USF, Cincy, Navy

New CUSA (12)

West: UTEP, UNT, UTSA, LA Tech, MTSU, +1

East: Marshall, ODU, UNC-C, FIU, FAU, +1

So. Miss won't get invite,Navy having 2nd thoughts,and you left UAB out of CUSA.

[Rudy]

Tulsa wants to hang with privates

Giggity

[Arkstfan]

So much of realignment is just the slow process of taking the same old conferences and turning them into the same old conferences with new names and logos and the occasional riser added and dog dropped.

Every MWC team came out of the WAC.

New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming WAC 1962-1998

Colorado State WAC 1968-1998

San Diego State WAC 1978-1998

Hawaii WAC 1979-2011

Air Force 1980-1998

Fresno WAC 1992-2011

UNLV WAC 1996-1998

San Jose State WAC 1996-2012

Nevada WAC 2000-2011

Boise State WAC 2001-2010

Utah State WAC 2005-2012

So basically the 8 that left the WAC to form the MWC have lost two original members, added four of the eight they escaped, lost one of those four, and added three they never thought were worthy of adding when they were in the WAC and basically added two of them and Fresno to plug a hole that ended up not existing.

Idaho and NMSU get left in the cold but Idaho would still be in the Big Sky if the WAC raiding the Big West hadn't provided an opportunity to move up and NMSU would still would be in the Sun Belt but for the WAC losing teams that never should have been in the WAC in the first place.

Makes Congress look effective and efficient.

[Arkstfan]

Taking it all a step further. The old Mountain States Conference produced current MWC members Colorado State, Utah State, Wyoming and New Mexico. Other members were BYU, Utah, Colorado, Denver and Montana.

Basically the core is the old Mountain States minus two that moved to the bigs, an indy, one that dumped football and one that went down a level in football.