Comparing this year to last year

[UNT90]

After suffering an 18 point loss on the road without CJ, I thought it would be interesting to take a look back at last years team's road losses after losing both CJ and JWill to academics:

01/14/12. At ULM. 68-55 win

01/25/11. At LaLa. 62-64 loss

02/09/11 at FIU. 68-61 win

02/11/11. At FAU. 81-86 OT loss

02/23/11. At UALR. 75-67 win

02/26/11. At Denver. 52-64 loss (with nothing on
the line as I recall)

Throw in a 2 point home loss to a MTSU team that was much better than the team we just lost to by 18 points.

Several things. Notice how we only gave up more than 70 points in one road game, and that game went to OT. So far, the only game we have lost and still held opponents under 70 was St. Louis, by far the best we have played all season. All other losses we have given up 70 plus.

This team does not play defense, even with a far superior lineup.

That is coaching.

Edited January 3, 2013 by UNT90

[NT03]

They actually played that game @ ULM... I was 1 of 18 fans in attendance to witness it

Believe the 1st game without both was the home game vs Denver.

[UNTMike81]

I've decided not to post much at all, and really don't look to see when we play or who any longer. This is really sad!!! I always followed UNT games for the last 7 years and purchase premium online membership to watch games over the internet. I've given up, sad to say!!! I'll check in from time to time, but if RV isn't going to do anything then why should I?

[Greendylan]

I've decided not to post much at all, and really don't look to see when we play or who any longer. This is really sad!!! I always followed UNT games for the last 7 years and purchase premium online membership to watch games over the internet. I've given up, sad to say!!! I'll check in from time to time, but if RV isn't going to do anything then why should I?

Personally, I will continue to follow games (and attend a couple while I'm in town), but I know exactly how you feel. Furthermore, your attitude is probably right in tune with most of our fans/alumni/students. And . . . that is the very reason why we need to take immediate action to stop the bleeding. A $1.2 million buyout is cheap compared to the price we will pay over the next decade if our program has to undergo a lengthy rebuilding process.

[UNT90]

A $1.2 million buyout is cheap compared to the price we will pay over the next decade if our program has to undergo a lengthy rebuilding process.

This. A thousand times this.

[risinggreen]

I've decided not to post much at all, and really don't look to see when we play or who any longer. This is really sad!!! I always followed UNT games for the last 7 years and purchase premium online membership to watch games over the internet. I've given up, sad to say!!! I'll check in from time to time, but if RV isn't going to do anything then why should I?

Ditto for me. It's been MANY years since I didn't at least click on the radio to catch every game I could, but I was on the road the other night and didn't even bother to tune into 88.1 to catch the Middle game. Very sad what has happened here, when even our most rabid fans are tuning out. Time for a change before more damage is done.

[island eagle]

It's sad. But, if you pay any attention. We had some players who could hit 3's last year. They graduated and we have nobody who can even hit the basket from 10 feet away. That is one of the root problems with this squad.

[foutsrouts]

It's sad. But, if you pay any attention. We had some players who could hit 3's last year. They graduated and we have nobody who can even hit the basket from 10 feet away. That is one of the root problems with this squad.

I doubt that Tyler Hall's graduation destroyed this team, but it would sure be nice to have him around. Anyone know Walton's status as far as possibly being around come tourney time? He was definitely an impressive bomber in the latter half of last season.

[oldguystudent]

I got my very first UNT ribbing from a longhorn grad yesterday. He said that he saw North Texas getting blown out in the first half on ESPNU.

I just kinda cocked my head and said, "huh. Didn't even know we were playing." Then we agreed that we were both looking forward to baseball season in about six weeks.

Basketball has never been and will never be my spectator sport of choice come 30 wins or 30 losses. In the latter case, I just refuse to let it cause me stress, and pretty much ignore it.

Either way I give the same amount, so it's just my own coping mechanism I suppose.

[flyonthewall]

Yes lets compare. Last year at this time we had 7 losses through the Troy game. Average RPI of teams that we lost to was 134, with the highest rpi being texas at 57. We lost to them 73-57. We had seven wins. Of these 7 wins 1 was against New Orleans, 1 against St. Gregory's, and one was against La Sierra. The average RPI of the four teams that we beat was 261. So we were 4-7 at this time last year against teams that count against the RPI. The highest RPI of teams that we beat to this point was Loyal Marymount at 109.

I know that everyone hyped this team, hell I hyped this team to everyone I knew, told everyone I knew about our lottery pick, about our two guards that were coming back.

You can hate on Benford all you want, this team just wasn't that good last year, and it is not that good this year either. I don't like watching this either. I don't like watching other teams making transition baskets while the "All American" is smirking at officials because he thought he was fouled. I don't like watching athletes that Johnny Jones recruited missing every freaken mid range jumper that they take. I don't like looking up at the end of the game and seeing that the other team made 11 three pointers and we made 0 or maybe one.

But I can't put this on the coach. I am sorry. He was not handed the keys to a ferrari. I will admit that Jordan has been coming around the past few games, but we are still not making the long range daggers that Tristin Thompson, Dominique, Josh White, Brandon, Calvin Watson or many other players from the past could make for us. It is sad to watch, but I am sad for different reasons than some of you guys.

The average rpi of teams that we have lost to this year is 107, With the highest being Creighton at 15, The average RPI of teams that we have beaten is 218. We were just not that good last year to this point, and we are not that good this year. I argue that we would be in this exact same place with Johnny Jones, and calling for his head. Fortunately for Johnny he is in Baton Rouge with LSU playing an EASIER non conference schedule and make 600,000 a year more than he made here. Loved Johnny, friends with Johnny, but is it possible the rug was pulled out from under this place on the way out the door?

[UNT90]

Yes lets compare. Last year at this time we had 7 losses through the Troy game. Average RPI of teams that we lost to was 134, with the highest rpi being texas at 57. We lost to them 73-57. We had seven wins. Of these 7 wins 1 was against New Orleans, 1 against St. Gregory's, and one was against La Sierra. The average RPI of the four teams that we beat was 261. So we were 4-7 at this time last year against teams that count against the RPI. The highest RPI of teams that we beat to this point was Loyal Marymount at 109.

I know that everyone hyped this team, hell I hyped this team to everyone I knew, told everyone I knew about our lottery pick, about our two guards that were coming back.

You can hate on Benford all you want, this team just wasn't that good last year, and it is not that good this year either. I don't like watching this either. I don't like watching other teams making transition baskets while the "All American" is smirking at officials because he thought he was fouled. I don't like watching athletes that Johnny Jones recruited missing every freaken mid range jumper that they take. I don't like looking up at the end of the game and seeing that the other team made 11 three pointers and we made 0 or maybe one.

But I can't put this on the coach. I am sorry. He was not handed the keys to a ferrari. I will admit that Jordan has been coming around the past few games, but we are still not making the long range daggers that Tristin Thompson, Dominique, Josh White, Brandon, Calvin Watson or many other players from the past could make for us. It is sad to watch, but I am sad for different reasons than some of you guys.

The average rpi of teams that we have lost to this year is 107, With the highest being Creighton at 15, The average RPI of teams that we have beaten is 218. We were just not that good last year to this point, and we are not that good this year. I argue that we would be in this exact same place with Johnny Jones, and calling for his head. Fortunately for Johnny he is in Baton Rouge with LSU playing an EASIER non conference schedule and make 600,000 a year more than he made here. Loved Johnny, friends with Johnny, but is it possible the rug was pulled out from under this place on the way out the door?

Great, except you ignore that facts that this team is worse in just about every statistical category than they were last year. You ignore the fact that this team is far worse defensively than they were with less talent last year. You ignore the fact that the main players on this team have a year of college experience under their belt and have regressed. You ignore the fact that JJ had a less talented team in the Belt tournament finals last year (something we won't see this year). You ignore the fact that we were never blown out by a conference foe last year, home or away (even though we were far less experienced and far less talented the last 2/3 of conference play).

You also ignore the visual evidence of Benford as a bench coach. You ignore Benford getting mad at a player, turning around and looking at the 3 guys that are immediately behind him, scanning the 3 frantically, pointing at one, changing his mind, and sending another in for the player at which his ire is directed (a common occurrence). You ignore non-sensical substitution patterns. You ignore Benford yelling at the players loud enough for the 1st 30 rows to hear.

But, other than all that, your right. It's JJs fault.

Edited January 3, 2013 by UNT90

[Green P1]

Last year's team had some embarrassments. This year's team is embarrassing. There is a difference.

[CMJ]

Last season we didn't faceplant against a D2 school.

[Censored by Laurie]

Last season I could watch without having to drink.

[flyonthewall]

I didn't say that It was his fault. What is fault? Is it Rick V.s fault that Mitchell loafs back on defense, and by the admission of NBA scouts in national publications that he is late on offense? Is this Johnny's fault? I am merely saying that there are two kids on this team that Benford recruited. P.J. and Coleman. The rest of this talented bunch are the kids that Johnny brought here. I am merely stating that the team could quite possibly have the same record with the VERY NOTABLE AND embarrassing loss to Alabama School for the blind with Johnny Jones as coach of this team, and we would be calling for his head also. Who would Johnny have beat? Kansas State after the win against Alabama Huntsville, Virginia in their building? St. Louis in their building? Marquette in their building? Did Johnny beat Marquette this year with his LSU team?

Based on the rpi's of the teams that we have played this year, and Johnny's ten year history against these typed of RPI's, including his short stint at LSU, we would have the same record as we do now. He has beaten no one at lsu, and lost to Marquette and Boise State????

Just comparing, as you say.

[flyonthewall]

Well I can't hardly function without drinking, which is why they have meetings for such things.

[UNT90]

I didn't say that It was his fault. What is fault? Is it Rick V.s fault that Mitchell loafs back on defense, and by the admission of NBA scouts in national publications that he is late on offense? Is this Johnny's fault? I am merely saying that there are two kids on this team that Benford recruited. P.J. and Coleman. The rest of this talented bunch are the kids that Johnny brought here. I am merely stating that the team could quite possibly have the same record with the VERY NOTABLE AND embarrassing loss to Alabama School for the blind with Johnny Jones as coach of this team, and we would be calling for his head also. Who would Johnny have beat? Kansas State after the win against Alabama Huntsville, Virginia in their building? St. Louis in their building? Marquette in their building? Did Johnny beat Marquette this year with his LSU team?

Based on the rpi's of the teams that we have played this year, and Johnny's ten year history against these typed of RPI's, including his short stint at LSU, we would have the same record as we do now. He has beaten no one at lsu, and lost to Marquette and Boise State????

Just comparing, as you say.

You can play ifs and buts all you want, but the wheels were never this far off a JJ team EVER. The only thing we can judge JJ on is the fact that he had a less talented team minutes away from the tourney.

Maybe this is a conversation for after the season. I wonder if your opinion will change when we fail to win 12 games this year.

Or next year.

[CMJ]

Last season is not exactly a fair comparison either. We either were missing our NBA talent or our other two budding stars for most of the season. They barely played with each other, and were just starting to click by the end of their short time together. Then the team had to readjust again.

In some ways it was one of JJ's hardest seasons given we basically had 3 separate mini-seasons.

Even so, Johnny Jones had a lot of built up good will that comes from conference championships and NCAA tournament appearances. If you recall before 2007 quite a few people were about ready to give up on him. That is fair. The goodwill he got for taking us from terrible to competitive was starting to run out and he needed to win. He started to do so.

Benford wasn't starting from scratch like JJ had to. Whether the talent on the team was overstated or not...the season does not look like it even has .500 potential right now. Given not only our hopes and dreams - but the general national expectations (should we relink articles from various outlets?) this is not comparable to JJ's era. The only thing I can maybe think it's related to was the '10-11 team that started off so well before we hit the skids midway through the conference slate and lost 5 or so in a row. And that team STILL turned it around to be a Solomon Bozeman clutch shot away from getting back to the Dance.

Edited January 3, 2013 by CMJ

[Censored by Laurie]

I wonder if your opinion will change when we fail to win 12 games this year.

Or next year.

Combined?

[GrandGreen]

Well if you want to forget that J. Williams, Mitchell, and Jones were all freshmen and seldom played together you may have a point. Last years team was not good at all, but with Jones you got at least his year end upturn at the tournament. At this time, most are just hoping that Benford will at least be competitive in the Belt tournament.

Benford has overall played a much tougher oc schedule, but that doesn't mean much if you are not even competitive in the games. Nearly everyone vastly overrated this NT team based on the way they have played. However, the components were all there on paper and in most fans minds.

It is very difficult, but apparently some can, to watch NT play and think this club is well coached. Senseless bench decisions and a group of players that often look like they think they have no chance and rather be somewhere else. Benford is full of excuses and now really has one with Jones out for the season.

At this point, some of the fans at least have hope that this can be turned around. With a team that has IMO underperformed as bad as this one, there is plenty of blame to go around to the coaching staff and players. This team is definitely not a Ferrari but it should not be running like a Yugo.

Edited January 3, 2013 by GrandGreen

[UNT90]

And, more importantly, Benford SAID all the components were there AND that teams were afraid to play at the Super Pit.

So either he is a terrible coach or terrible at evaluating talent (along with all the teams that refused to play us in Denton), either way doesn't forecast good times ahead.

[emmitt01]

To say that JJ would be doing the same is the ultimate in apologist thinking. Would JJ have lost to Creighton, St Louis, and Virginia. Probably. In embarrassing fashion? No. Would JJ have walked to center court, dropped his pants and crapped all over it against a D2 team? No, no, no, never, never, never, no, no! Would JJ have let a VASTLY depleted WKU squad spank us? Nope.

Those that want to compare the two coaches need look no further than how uncompetitive we are against SUN BELT teams. When did ULL become a national power? And if you want to knock JJ for the Boise State and Marquette losses...explain his win against Seton Hall. Seton Hall would have run a Benford coached team out of the gym.

And nobody is saying RV is responsible for lack of defensive effort. What we are saying is, because this is the essence of his position, he IS responsible for bringing in a guy who is so inept that he can't motivate a kid who has EVERY reason to show effort this year. Think Mitchell doesn't have a couple million reasons to showcase what he's got?

[oldguystudent]

Well I can't hardly function without drinking, which is why they have meetings for such things.

Most of the people I work with have never tasted alcohol in their lives. Some will leave a room if there is but a single beer present.

Quite the change in working environment, I tells ya.

[CMJ]

I am sure Benford on some level knows what it takes to turn this around. He's been in the game for a long, long time and been at the side of some successful coaches. He also has a good brain trust next to him on the bench. He has the experience to be a fine head coach, and maybe he eventually will be. But, according to most who watch him - he seems flustered and over his head. Coaching is more than knowing facts. It's being able to motivate your guys and pass on your knowledge. It's being able to have the confidence in yourself to switch mid stream and not second guess yourself.. I'm sure he knows how to get us playing better defense, but we have yet to see it. I am sure in his mind our offense has the potential to be a well oiled machine, but it in pieces right now. It's not about being unsure who to sub in the game when things are going south or all the other complaints people who sat behind the bench have lodged.

A good coach can do all of this and more. I am sure he goes home after every game and it eats at him that the team isn't performing how he expects they can. But if he can't communicate HOW they can turn it around, it's on him not them.

[flyonthewall]

Ok emmitt, a not embarrassing jj loss from last year. 97-64 to University of Texas Arlington. a not so embarrassing loss to Miss. State, 82-59. A not so embarrassing loss to columbia with an rpi of 187 72-57. OH yeah, and that loss to Tech early in the year who finished the season with a staggering rpi of 240.

I am not taking up for Tony Benford, I am just not going to knee jerk and say fire em all, they stink. I am watching the same games you guys are, and I think this Andrew is not being realistic. If these kids can't play, then he better find some that can. He better go find a juco point guard that can shoot. I am just saying that this team might very well be overhyped.... Not what was advertised. Heck yes he is going to come in saying things like "They are scared to play in Denton" and "Our goal is not only to go to the tournament, but to go deep in the tournament". I heard all of these things several times.

We were all set up for a big, big let down. It is time to pick ourselves up, be realistic about what we have here, and figure out what we can do to help right the ship.

For my part I am going to sit at the games and encourage our players, heckle the refs to the point where they might throw me out of a game, and thank god that my living does not rely on the actions of 18 to 22 year old kids.

If at the end of next year we have completely lost it and have gone way backwards, then I will be more critical of Coach Benford, but not in public, not on an internet board. Only in private conversations with whoever wants to listen.

It is just nor fair to judge this thing one sided right now, that is all I am saying.