No Heart, No Soul

meangreenbob · December 21, 2012

George, Tristen and Josh could beat any combination of five Benford puts on the floor. What we have now is just of bunch of kids who play for themselves, unlike the teams over the last 6-7 years who played for the team and the University first. They gave everything they had in the classroom, on the street and certainly on the court. They made us all proud and they made us feel good. They were and still are family.

All I see now are some kids who wear our uniforms, nothing more. Any Tradition that might have been established over the last several years by the hard work and dedication of former players has been wiped out. These current kids dropped the baton. Yes, there are a few exceptions. Not many.

These current players have no heart, no soul. I don't know who they are and what they are doing here at our University.

Edited December 21, 2012 by meangreenbob

oldguystudent · December 21, 2012

emmitt01 · December 21, 2012

George, Tristen and Josh could beat any combination of five Benford puts on the floor. What we have now is just of bunch of kids who play for themselves, unlike the teams over the last 6-7 years who played for the team and the University first. They gave everything they had in the classroom, on the street and certainly on the court. They made us all proud and they made us feel good. They were and still are family.

All I see now are some kids who wear our uniforms, nothing more. Any Tradition that might have been established over the last several years by the hard work and dedication of former players has been wiped out. These current kids dropped the baton. Yes, there are a few exceptions. Not many.

These current players have no heart, no soul. I don't know who they are and what they are doing here at our University.

Couldn't agree more. If only one or more of these kids were part of a team that went to the conference tourney final last year. Now THAT team had heart!!! Remember when we had a kid that many were predicting would be a

North Texas HOF'er before he was ruled ineligible? Too bad that guy transferred...he did transfer, right? If only Benford was coaching a group that JJ coached before he left, then we could make a comparison...too bad we'll never get that chance.

KRAM1 · December 21, 2012

Yep...if only we had some of the same players who played with the heart and soul they actually seemed to have had...so, if you are correct, where is that heart and soul? Did it just pack up and leave when they lost the SBC Championship game last year? I think not, but it has not been on display this year from these same guys you feel have all the heart and soul. I, too, happen to think it is still there...so, is this a maturity thing? You tell me as the resident expert on heart and soul. Does heart and soul depend upon having a coach that you "like"? Or is heart and soul a personal thing that one demonstrates even more when the going gets tough? Just asking the question...don't have the answer.

island eagle · December 21, 2012

George, Tristen and Josh could beat any combination of five Benford puts on the floor. What we have now is just of bunch of kids who play for themselves, unlike the teams over the last 6-7 years who played for the team and the University first. They gave everything they had in the classroom, on the street and certainly on the court. They made us all proud and they made us feel good. They were and still are family.

All I see now are some kids who wear our uniforms, nothing more. Any Tradition that might have been established over the last several years by the hard work and dedication of former players has been wiped out. These current kids dropped the baton. Yes, there are a few exceptions. Not many.

These current players have no heart, no soul. I don't know who they are and what they are doing here at our University.

I was at the game last night and I saw a team that could shoot beat a team that couldn't shoot. On the contrary, I saw the guys give good effort, but effort won't do it if you can't hit the basket. There were signs of this last year....and if I had paid attention to who was leaving the squad, I would have known that we'd be in trouble. No amount of coaching can fix what is wrong with this team.I hope Benford concentrates on getting some shooters.

We had open looks and either couldn't hit them or we wouldn't even try. Lehigh had open looks and knocked them down. That was the whole story of the game.

KoldBeer · December 21, 2012

Interesting comment from Fran Fraschilla (who was finalist for the job but is still working for ESPN). He was at the game last night:

Fran Fraschilla ‏@franfraschilla

UNT's Tony Mitchell struggled last night. Ganged up on in low post and didn't look in shape. Not same guy I (and NBA scouts)saw at LeBron's.

Stan R · December 21, 2012

Interesting comment from Fran Fraschilla (who was finalist for the job but is still working for ESPN). He was at the game last night:

Fran Fraschilla ‏@franfraschilla

UNT's Tony Mitchell struggled last night. Ganged up on in low post and didn't look in shape. Not same guy I (and NBA scouts)saw at LeBron's.

Sad to say but the attitude part probably cost Mitchell some SERIOUS $$$. You'd think he'd be an animal out there last night given what was at stake. Attitude matters. I mean, would you act that way for an interview?

That said - we should all HOPE that Tony still goes in the high 1st round. It is what's best for both Tony (obviously) and the MG BB program.

CMJ · December 21, 2012

I am not gonna question the team's heart because I am not at the games. Living in LA, it's tough for me to gauge that. I know the guys I saw in Hot Springs last year had heart though, and it's almost all the same guys. Which brings me to a few potential conclusions.

1. The team just doesn't wanna play for Benford anymore, and gives up at the first sign of trouble.

2. The players are either under or overcoached and have no clue what is expected of them.

2. The role players we lost (either by graduation or Walton) were somehow the heart of the team.

3. One of the newcomers is a cancer that we don't know about, and it bringing everyone else down.

If I were the coach, I'd spend an entire practice or two on shooting. Not kidding. Forget defense for a day, shoot midrange and long range jumpers (and run plays on how to get open effectively). We are a terrible, and I mean terrible, shooting team right now.

Edited December 21, 2012 by CMJ

MeanGreenTexan · December 21, 2012

Time for a 'players only' meeting?

Rog could make that happen. But I wonder what would get accomplished?

CMJ · December 21, 2012

Time for a 'players only' meeting?
Rog could make that happen. But I wonder what would get accomplished?

I think the players only meeting needed to happen before ULL.

UNT90 · December 21, 2012

1. The team just doesn't wanna play for Benford anymore, and gives up at the first sign of trouble.

If I were the coach, I'd spend an entire practice or two on shooting. Not kidding. Forget defense for a day, shoot midrange and long range jumpers (and run plays on how to get open effectively). We are a terrible, and I mean terrible, shooting team right now.

Ding, ding, ding, ding..

I am at the games and I can tell you that this is exactly what is happening. While not a good first 10 minutes, UNT did play an even first 8-10 minutes with Lehigh, but after Lehigh hit a couple of threes, the air went completely out of the sails. Folded like a cheap tent. Didn't know defensive assignments, open layups, uncontested 3 pointers. Benford screaming like a schoolyard girl the whole time.

CMJ, if you were able to watch one game from behind the bench, you would be mortified. I really, really, really, feel for these players.

MeanGreenTexan · December 21, 2012

So I suppose the answer is to write off this season as a disaster and wait for Benford's guys to get here so he can put them in his system? Then, we'll see this thing take off??

If anyone could GUARANTEE me that this would happen, I'd say sayonara to anyone Benford sees as insubordinate, and get his guys in here. ASAP.

Unfortunately, I just don't see this happening. At all. Yet I'm worried we still see the insubordinate (re: the frustrated, talented guys) leave anyway.

CMJ · December 21, 2012

So I suppose the answer is to write off this season as a disaster and wait for Benford's guys to get here so he can put them in his system? Then, we'll see this thing take off??
If anyone could GUARANTEE me that this would happen, I'd say sayonara to anyone Benford sees as insubordinate, and get his guys in here. ASAP.
Unfortunately, I just don't see this happening. At all. Yet I'm worried we still see the insubordinate (re: the frustrated, talented guys) leave anyway.

Yep.

Now, college basketball (all sports really) has some famous stories of new coaches who were given time when the fans wanted to run them out on a rail in their first couple of seasons, and then succeeded brilliantly. Dean Smith was burned in effigy at UNC for crying out loud and barely survived until he turned the Heels into what we associate Carolina basketball is.

So yeah, fans can be stupid.

But more often than not....if things are going this badly early....it doesn't turn around.

Edited December 21, 2012 by CMJ

Dr. Seuss · December 21, 2012

Ding, ding, ding, ding..

I am at the games and I can tell you that this is exactly what is happening. While not a good first 10 minutes, UNT did play an even first 8-10 minutes with Lehigh, but after Lehigh hit a couple of threes, the air went completely out of the sails. Folded like a cheap tent. Didn't know defensive assignments, open layups, uncontested 3 pointers. Benford screaming like a schoolyard girl the whole time.

CMJ, if you were able to watch one game from behind the bench, you would be mortified. I really, really, really, feel for these players.

Whats worst, our shooting or Dwight Howards FT %

foutsrouts · December 21, 2012

TB ran off one of our best shooters in Forrest Robinson. Based on Benford's basketball knowledge, I've just got to think that Robinson, Odoh, and Norris are going to turn out to be big-time stars. They are good enough for LSU and DePaul but not for us?

Last night's performance made me feel like a fool for being there, and for dragging three other people with me who will likely never return. Very depressing.

CurveItAround · December 21, 2012

TB ran off one of our best shooters in Forrest Robinson. Based on Benford's basketball knowledge, I've just got to think that Robinson, Odoh, and Norris are going to turn out to be big-time stars. They are good enough for LSU and DePaul but not for us?

Last night's performance made me feel like a fool for being there, and for dragging three other people with me who will likely never return. Very depressing.

??

Robinson left after he only got in 16 games and was averaging less than 6 minutes a game. Odoh left because JJ took him. Unless I missed something, these two players left because of JJ.

UNT90 · December 21, 2012

TB ran off one of our best shooters in Forrest Robinson. Based on Benford's basketball knowledge, I've just got to think that Robinson, Odor, and Norris are going to turn out to be big-time stars. They are good enough for LSU and DePaul but not for us?

Last night's performance made me feel like a fool for being there, and for dragging three other people with me who will likely never return. Very depressing.

Look, Robinson chose to leave. Odoh wouldn't come here after JJ left and Benford was hired (smart guy). Benford tried his @ss off to get Odoh, didn't happen.

Norris can't play at this level, plain and simple.

Benford is responsible for a lot, but not for Odoh or. Robinson not being here, and he was right about Norris.

TIgreen01 · December 21, 2012

I was at the game last night and I saw a team that could shoot beat a team that couldn't shoot. On the contrary, I saw the guys give good effort, but effort won't do it if you can't hit the basket. There were signs of this last year....and if I had paid attention to who was leaving the squad, I would have known that we'd be in trouble. No amount of coaching can fix what is wrong with this team.I hope Benford concentrates on getting some shooters.

We had open looks and either couldn't hit them or we wouldn't even try. Lehigh had open looks and knocked them down. That was the whole story of the game.

This. Much as I want to bag on Benford, I'm pretty sure we're the worst shooting team in all of D1....definitely the worst I've ever seen.

KRAM1 · December 22, 2012

??

Robinson left after he only got in 16 games and was averaging less than 6 minutes a game. Odoh left because JJ took him. Unless I missed something, these two players left because of JJ.

Facts just don't work well around these parts. I think you pretty much nailed it. Now folks see Robinson as some sort of god-child that would have led UNT to the promised land. JJ must not have seen that in him. Robinson may have been great had he sayed...maybe not, but this is all speculation.

island eagle · December 22, 2012

This. Much as I want to bag on Benford, I'm pretty sure we're the worst shooting team in all of D1....definitely the worst I've ever seen.

It is the worst shooting team I've ever seen at North Texas and you cannot pin that on Benford.

foutsrouts · December 22, 2012

Yeah right. It's like this team can throw ANYONE in the dumpster who can hit a shot from 15 feet. GMAB.

GrandGreen · December 22, 2012

NT is shooting horribly but a lot of that is the offense they are attempting to run. It is basically the same team as last year who also didn't shoot particularly well. Team fg% last year was .434 versus this year .321., three shooting last year .321, this year a truly awful .232.

Jones, Mitchell, A. Williams, and J. Williams are all shooting substantially worse than last year. I am not sure how you can support the theory that it not a coaching issue either in the scheme or coaching. Only Holmen who is almost exactly shooting what he did last year has not regressed.

I do wonder about Benford excuses; Walton and Taylor his best outside shooters are out. Taylor was never in, and Walton who did lead the team last year in the number of threes and shoot .367% from outside the circle. I am not sure Waltons average of 1.6 threes a game can be a big factor in the team overall lack of expected performance.

I noticed when Patton couldn't play, Benford bemoaned the lack of his best defender; yet he now seldom plays. Likewise he had the answer at center, who also seldom plays. Now it is the lack of outside defenders, always some deficiency with the team he proclaimed could be in play for a top 25 status.

There is always a chance Benford can turn this team around, but anyone that doesn't think coaching hasn't been a problem hasn't been watching. Shooting is a matter of confidence and this team is really lacking that at this point.

foutsrouts · December 23, 2012

??

Robinson left after he only got in 16 games and was averaging less than 6 minutes a game. Odoh left because JJ took him. Unless I missed something, these two players left because of JJ.

Or just maybe because of TB.

foutsrouts · December 23, 2012

It is the worst shooting team I've ever seen at North Texas and you cannot pin that on Benford.

They generally shot better last year so it's hard not to look for blame somewhere. Of course it's not just shooting since it's pretty much everything.

foutsrouts · December 23, 2012

Look, Robinson chose to leave. Odoh wouldn't come here after JJ left and Benford was hired (smart guy). Benford tried his @ss off to get Odoh, didn't happen.
Norris can't play at this level, plain and simple.
Benford is responsible for a lot, but not for Odoh or. Robinson not being here, and he was right about Norris.

I think Robinson "chose" to leave because he was gently pushed out the door. Odoh was recruited by JJ, so his leaving for LSU was a no brainer unless we had continued to block LSU and TB had come through with the necessary persuasion. Norris is still a young unknown. I saw him play more than once in high school and he has skills to play at this level IMO. Certainly our current level.