Just talked to a scout

[outoftown]

My scout quotes: "Why don't you guys play defense? They look dead out there." And "I saw Mitchell at the Lebeon Camp and he was a beast, what happened?"

I informed him it was a coaching problem.

I sat and watch and listened as Coach Benford yelled at his team loud enough for everyone in the 1st 20 rows to gear. Such coaching nuggets like "Go up strong, Jacob" and, yelling at the bench after a defensive breakdown, but while play is still ongoing "We went over that in practice", like the guys on the bench had anything to do with what was going on on the court. It's like he yelled it as loud as he could strictly for the first 20 rows (which included many NBA scouts) to hear.

This is a disaster. If I knew a big donor who had the money to buy out the contract, I would beg him in person to right the check.

We are in Todd Dodge territory here. That is where we are at. We will see after this 12 win season just how serious UNT is about athletics.

You darn optimist! Could you please pass me your green cool aid?

[UNT90]

Yes...yes they were. I wonder what they felt like they saw regarding what they came there to see? I am certainly not an NBA guy. So, what do you experts think they saw and how they evaluated what they saw? Lottery pick?

Like I said, the one sitting next to me commented that this wasn't the same Tony Mitchell that he saw at the Lebron Camp. That Tony Mitchell was a beast against FAR better competition.

Let's see... What is the one common denominator? Tony Benford.

I'm telling you, this thing is headed toward a crash of epic porportions, one that will make Todd Dodge's reign look like the second coming of Vince Lombardi.

Another quote "Does he just sub in at random in every game?"

If you wanted to see how a head coach SHOULD act with his team on game day, all you had to do is look down to the other bench at the Lehigh head coach, who wasn't insulting his team loud enough for fans 20 rows back to hear it, who wasn't substituting at random, who was ACTING LIKE A FAN ON THE BENCH.

Trust me, the players see this. They know. Please, Lord, let something, anything happen to stop the disaster that is headed for this basketball program.

[UNT90]

Mike...stop giving me the minus points for just reporting what I heard the NBA guys say....it is their opinion, not mine...go give them the minus ones.....

I can't help it f these NBA guys are so stupid. We're not my comments....it was their comments. Sorry you don't agree. But, I am guessing they might just go with their own opinions...neither mine nor yours....sort of their job, right?

Let's all just agree that the season has been very frustrating so far. Let's all hope T Mitch ends up as a lottery pick and just see how it turns out. What we believe will not change a thing...

Dude. You need to have more faith in your opinions. +1 or -1 is pure stupidity, and I rarely use either, and never on you. So freaking dumb. .

I was sitting by an NBA scout far closer to the bench who heard and saw every reaction from Benford. A guy who saw Tony at the Lebron camp. Believe it or not, Benford has lost this team. I saw it in how guys reacted to him. He is terrified on the bench. He is in constant assistant coach mode, continually reacting and yelling at players. THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE ASSISTANTS, COACH BENFORD. BE A HEAD COACH!

Mark, believe me or not, but, unlike football, I do know a little something about basketball, and this thing is headed to a VERY bad place by season's end. We will all see how serious this university is about their athletic program. To say I'll be watching with curiosity is an understatement.

Edited December 21, 2012 by UNT90

[UNT90]

I too loved that Niko started. I really like his game. He can take the ball to the hole and score. He did make a few mistakes tonight but had a few bad calls go his way. I would be interested in seeing this lineup.

PG- Alzee

SG-J. Williams

SF- Mitchell

PF- Niko

C- Coleman

I too loved that Niko started. I really like his game. He can take the ball to the hole and score. He did make a few mistakes tonight but had a few bad calls go his way. I would be interested in seeing this lineup.

PG- Alzee

SG-J. Williams

SF- Mitchell

PF- Niko

C- Coleman

This just proves how basketball stupid you are skiver.

Edited December 21, 2012 by UNT90

[UNT90]

This is true because when I actually payed attention it was illegal....

I don't think you have paid attention to anything basketball since Larry Bird wore the short shorts.

You are truly a basketball moron.

Edited December 21, 2012 by UNT90

[emmitt01]

Dude. You need to have more faith in your opinions. +1 or -1 is pure stupidity, and I rarely use either, and never on you. So freaking dumb. .

I was sitting by an NBA scout far closer to the bench who heard and saw every reaction from Benford. A guy who saw Tony at the Lebron camp. Believe it or not, Benford has lost this team. I saw it in how guys reacted to him. He is terrified on the bench. He is in constant assistant coach mode, continually reacting and yelling at players. THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE ASSISTANTS, COACH BENFORD. BE A HEAD COACH!

Mark, believe me or not, but, unlike football, I do know a little something about basketball, and this thing is headed to a VERY bad place by season's end. We will all see how serious this university is about their athletic program. To say I'll be watching with curiosity is an understatement.

Todd Dodge was given a year 4. If there's one thing this athletic department has it's "loyalty".

[oldguystudent]

To say I'll be watching with curiosity is an understatement.

So I would venture to guess that you've been leaving the lady friend at home the past month?

Somehow, this whole fiasco doesn't stress me out nearly as much as the Dodge fiasco did. Either I'm numb to UNT athletic failures or it's just that basketball has never been all that interesting to me in the first place. Don't know which it is, or if it's a combination of both, but I really just feel like...meh on the whole situation.

Soon baseball cometh, and that season starts in mid-February, so I'll only have to endure December and January without meaningful sports in a couple years.

Back on topic, as to where the blame lies on this failed season, the players or the coaching staff, I'm just not smart enough to tell. From the games I've seen, it really looks almost like the players are trying to purposefully undermine the coaches, and I don't know where responsibility for that lies. If Benford sticks around, I do sense a mass Stephensesque exodus of current players, but have no idea if that will translate into a team of players who play for Benford or if this program is lost for the duration of his stay in Denton.

First pitch is February 15th. Local talented teams are TCU and Dallas Baptist. Not so local, but very talented, and with very, very nice facilities is Baylor. I suggest you all check out some baseball and relieve your stress a bit. It's a slower paced, more relaxing experience. And TCU has purple nachos. Who doesn't like purple nachos?

[Censored by Laurie]

This just proves how basketball stupid you are skiver.

I really don't think Andrew is Skiver...I realize the two have never posted in the same thread, but Andrew is actually spelling his inane and ridiculous words correctly...something Skiver couldn't do.

They're just both really, really basketball stupid.

Also I'd like to point out for those not in the chat last night that Benford's ineptness actually had FFR and I getting along...we actually found common ground. I can't express just how monumental that is.

[gksmith]

So where are we on this?

Is Benford's system so complex the players can't pick it up?

Or are the players that defient?

Or is Benford so insistant on putting the square peg in the round hole instead of adjusting to the strengths of the team?

Did we over shoot our expectations by a LOT!? First year coaches normally don't do so well. (yes I read about JJ and LSU and 7-1)

As for Mitchell playing himself out of the NBA Draft Lottery...a lot of that has to be on him. Discipline. When he gets to the NBA this will be his job year around and he has to have discipline or he will be another 1 or 2 year washout.

[Stan R]

I listened to a scout obn the way out say Benford is trying to implement a serious system but doesn't have the disciplined players to do it as opposed to Lehigh where their star player went down and someone else stepped into his place. He said he needs to get his own players for HIS system. I tend to agree...our players ESPECIALLY Tony act like they don't even care out there. The smaller less athletic team out hustled us and played with confidence on every play...our guys are some over-hyped brats and they didn't want it bad enough. It was so embarrassing sitting with my friends from Lehigh having to watch tonight. Smh.

This I can agree with. "Best Answer"...

One point I'd like to add though. This team seemed strangely to be able to match up with Lehigh for about the first 5-7 minutes. We were matching them score for score and were hustling like crazy, driving to baskets, really into it. After LeHigh started raynin' treys we looked like we just got a knockout punch and then lost our energy and want-to.

The comments about his system do seem to make some sense though. But if we are really running full speed practices on game day that does seem foolish given that this team does not "FIT" his style if that is to be believed. If that is the case, are we (Benford and co.) sacrificing this season to try to transform this team to a fast paced type of system?

If so you would think that Mr. Rick Villareal would have asked that type of question early on in the interview process and would have said no thanks on the deal. I mean - why the hell would you agree to this sort of a transitional year with a different style when you are already set up for success with the style of play that JJ had honed over the years into a working system? WHY WASTE THIS YEAR RICK???

[Green P1]

[NTGabe15]

they can always go elsewhere and get a new job

and

Tony Benford is a home run hire

and you were so dow on the hire

coaches caravan

and

I'm no expert on St. Louis, Creighton, or Lehigh but I would think the Creighton game would be considered more of a must see than the St. Louis one. Maybe I'm completely off base here? Either way these games are gonna be a treat.

and

and

I know I have green glasses on but y'all are Creighton from the MVC. Get off your high horse a little bit and prepare for that Mean Green butt kickin!

and

I'm really excited to see a complete Mean Green team with Tony, CJ, Jordan, everyone firing on all cylinders.

and

I remember my freshman year at NT (2009) There was maybe 2 or 3 dunks all season. There is so much athleticism on this team it could be 2 to 3 dunks a half. The guys looked great last night but were all really tired from 2 practices earlier that day. I'm incredibly excited for this coming season and can't wait to see where they go! GMG

if only you had let everyone know how against the hire you were before you spouted all the crap above you would look like a genius instead of someone making up for a punch of spoiled babies that are playing like crap and giving poor effort because they don't want to do work the way their coach tells them to

I would imagine they will give that same effort supersizing it in their future vocation if they keep up the attitude you are making excuses for

First of all I'm glad all my posts have made such an impact on you that you kept track of when and where I share my opinion on this board. It's an honor. Second were you not excited about the hire? Were you not excited to see the guys pick up where they left off? I haven't, nor will I, do any detective work on your opinions of the Benford hire or what of you thought of the team before the season but I surely did not see any negative posts from any Mean Green fan before the Huntsville game. Third I never said it was ok for them to be lazy and not hustle I simply provided a reason and an explanation. Go stalk someone else's posts.

[Dr. Seuss]

Like I said, the one sitting next to me commented that this wasn't the same Tony Mitchell that he saw at the Lebron Camp. That Tony Mitchell was a beast against FAR better competition.

Let's see... What is the one common denominator? Tony Benford.

I'm telling you, this thing is headed toward a crash of epic porportions, one that will make Todd Dodge's reign look like the second coming of Vince Lombardi.

Another quote "Does he just sub in at random in every game?"

If you wanted to see how a head coach SHOULD act with his team on game day, all you had to do is look down to the other bench at the Lehigh head coach, who wasn't insulting his team loud enough for fans 20 rows back to hear it, who wasn't substituting at random, who was ACTING LIKE A FAN ON THE BENCH.

Trust me, the players see this. They know. Please, Lord, let something, anything happen to stop the disaster that is headed for this basketball program.

Everything is on point in the post

[untjim1995]

I really don't think Andrew is Skiver...I realize the two have never posted in the same thread, but Andrew is actually spelling his inane and ridiculous words correctly...something Skiver couldn't do.

They're just both really, really basketball stupid.

Also I'd like to point out for those not in the chat last night that Benford's ineptness actually had FFR and I getting along...we actually found common ground. I can't express just how monumental that is.

I cannot understand just how completely loyal this Andrew character is to Benford. He has to be a relative or family friend or works for him in the AD. I know that Dodge had his loyal supporters, too, even to the end.

Guys, there is nothing we can do but bite down hard on the pillow. Literally, there is nothing we can do about this but watch it crash and burn for the this year, next year, and the year after. There is no way the university will buy out that much of a contract--if they couldn't afford to buy out Todd Dodge's last two years, they won't be able to do that for a sport that brings in far less $$ than football. If we are REALLY lucky, we won't have to endure a 4th year, although I suspect that the financial situation of the AD will probably make the a probability, too. Love RV's passion for the Mean Green, but you just cannot accept the hirings of Todd Dodge, Shanice Stephens, and Tony Benford. Just terrible...

Edited December 21, 2012 by untjim1995

[MeanGreenHoops]

So after reading all of this, I actually think both Andrew and UNT90 are right. Weird I know. But, UNT90 and others often questioned JJ and his system how we would struggle during the season often losing to lesser teams that were seemingly better coached see Bob Marlin et al. We'd finish in the middle of the pack in the SunBelt. I mean we were never a team that went 14-2 in conference. We got to 20 wins by beating 8-10 terrible teams in non-conference, winning half or slightly better of our games in conference and have 20 some odd wins with a few wins in the conference tourney. We never had a season like MTSU last year is my point and many people questioned the JJ scheme. It's maybe possible that the Benford system is requiring a lot more discipline and effort, so maybe Andrew is onto something

But the problem is and where Andrew and others defending Benford are wrong is, a better coach wouldn't have lost this team and that has clearly happened. And by better I just mean more experienced. Look every coach has problems and strengths. But you have to have the players on board. If they aren't you're sunk regardless of talent, system or any other factor. And no one is on board at this point.

[Dr. Seuss]

So after reading all of this, I actually think both Andrew and UNT90 are right. Weird I know. But, UNT90 and others often questioned JJ and his system how we would struggle during the season often losing to lesser teams that were seemingly better coached see Bob Marlin et al. We'd finish in the middle of the pack in the SunBelt. I mean we were never a team that went 14-2 in conference. We got to 20 wins by beating 8-10 terrible teams in non-conference, winning half or slightly better of our games in conference and have 20 some odd wins with a few wins in the conference tourney. We never had a season like MTSU last year is my point and many people questioned the JJ scheme. It's maybe possible that the Benford system is requiring a lot more discipline and effort, so maybe Andrew is onto something

But the problem is and where Andrew and others defending Benford are wrong is, a better coach wouldn't have lost this team and that has clearly happened. And by better I just mean more experienced. Look every coach has problems and strengths. But you have to have the players on board. If they aren't you're sunk regardless of talent, system or any other factor. And no one is on board at this point.

Its hard to tell if Benfords system requires more discipline because Benford isnt showing any discipline when it comes to substitutions, he just subs the first guy he sees

[CMJ]

So after reading all of this, I actually think both Andrew and UNT90 are right. Weird I know. But, UNT90 and others often questioned JJ and his system how we would struggle during the season often losing to lesser teams that were seemingly better coached see Bob Marlin et al. We'd finish in the middle of the pack in the SunBelt. I mean we were never a team that went 14-2 in conference. We got to 20 wins by beating 8-10 terrible teams in non-conference, winning half or slightly better of our games in conference and have 20 some odd wins with a few wins in the conference tourney. We never had a season like MTSU last year is my point and many people questioned the JJ scheme. It's maybe possible that the Benford system is requiring a lot more discipline and effort, so maybe Andrew is onto something

But the problem is and where Andrew and others defending Benford are wrong is, a better coach wouldn't have lost this team and that has clearly happened. And by better I just mean more experienced. Look every coach has problems and strengths. But you have to have the players on board. If they aren't you're sunk regardless of talent, system or any other factor. And no one is on board at this point.

The 2009-10 team might not have had a (last year) MTSU-like season, but they did go 13-5 in league play, win the West outright, and tie with Troy and MTSU for the overall best record.

Not to mention they won like 10-11 straight league games at one point.

Edited December 21, 2012 by CMJ

[UNT90]

First of all I'm glad all my posts have made such an impact on you that you kept track of when and where I share my opinion on this board. It's an honor. Second were you not excited about the hire? Were you not excited to see the guys pick up where they left off? I haven't, nor will I, do any detective work on your opinions of the Benford hire or what of you thought of the team before the season but I surely did not see any negative posts from any Mean Green fan before the Huntsville game. Third I never said it was ok for them to be lazy and not hustle I simply provided a reason and an explanation. Go stalk someone else's posts.

Actually, unlike that DBag checkfacts, it's nice to see that you dont get locked into your internet opinion and realize that when something is as FUBAR as this, changes should be made.

[UNTMike81]

Andrew...explain this to me. If JJ didn't have a system and all he did was coach "Street Ball" how in the heck did JJ have UNT teams with lesser talent than when he left and put together 5 Twenty Win Seasons. Past that LSU hired Trent Johnson "guru coach" and he was an abject falure at LSU. Then LSU's AD (must be a total dummy head case) hire's Johnny Jones. Years prior an unaccomplish coach named Dale Brown recommended Johnny Jones be the next LSU head coach many years before Coach Jones was actually hired. How can this be?

You keep making a case that Coach Benford somehow took over UNT's basketball program some 11 years ago resurrected the program form the dead and was now hired by LSU. In comes new coach Johnny Jones with no head coaching experience isn't an X's and O's man and all he can do is coach "Street Ball" and is responsable for UNT's current record in the 2012-13 season.

Your Doctor Jekel, Mr. Hyde logic and thought process is making my head spin?

Actually the preformanced of our team this year is mystifying and making my head spin right off my neck!!

[UNT90]

So after reading all of this, I actually think both Andrew and UNT90 are right. Weird I know. But, UNT90 and others often questioned JJ and his system how we would struggle during the season often losing to lesser teams that were seemingly better coached see Bob Marlin et al. We'd finish in the middle of the pack in the SunBelt. I mean we were never a team that went 14-2 in conference. We got to 20 wins by beating 8-10 terrible teams in non-conference, winning half or slightly better of our games in conference and have 20 some odd wins with a few wins in the conference tourney. We never had a season like MTSU last year is my point and many people questioned the JJ scheme. It's maybe possible that the Benford system is requiring a lot more discipline and effort, so maybe Andrew is onto something

But the problem is and where Andrew and others defending Benford are wrong is, a better coach wouldn't have lost this team and that has clearly happened. And by better I just mean more experienced. Look every coach has problems and strengths. But you have to have the players on board. If they aren't you're sunk regardless of talent, system or any other factor. And no one is on board at this point.

But with JJ, I never questioned his control of the team. While I didn't like his offensive scheme, I never felt that his team wasn't prepared for a game (outside of UTA last year, maybe). And JJ almost ALWAYS had his teams playing at their best at the end of the year. Never a better example than last year. JJ never lost his team and was the picture of confidence on the sideline. Neither of those describe Coach Benford.

[filmerj]

Also I'd like to point out for those not in the chat last night that Benford's ineptness actually had FFR and I getting along...we actually found common ground. I can't express just how monumental that is.

So RV did have a reason for the TB hiring.

Edited December 21, 2012 by filmerj

[filmerj]

So where are we on this?

Is Benford's system so complex the players can't pick it up?

Or are the players that defient?

Or is Benford so insistant on putting the square peg in the round hole instead of adjusting to the strengths of the team?

Did we over shoot our expectations by a LOT!? First year coaches normally don't do so well. (yes I read about JJ and LSU and 7-1)

As for Mitchell playing himself out of the NBA Draft Lottery...a lot of that has to be on him. Discipline. When he gets to the NBA this will be his job year around and he has to have discipline or he will be another 1 or 2 year washout.

Its probably a complicated witches brew of all the ingredients you listed.

[filmerj]

My 2 year old has mastered NOT trying this.

Edited December 21, 2012 by filmerj

[Green P1]

My 2 year old has mastered NOT trying this.

Does he look good in a suit?

[meangreener]

they can always go elsewhere and get a new job

and

Tony Benford is a home run hire

and you were so dow on the hire

coaches caravan

and

I'm no expert on St. Louis, Creighton, or Lehigh but I would think the Creighton game would be considered more of a must see than the St. Louis one. Maybe I'm completely off base here? Either way these games are gonna be a treat.

and

and

I know I have green glasses on but y'all are Creighton from the MVC. Get off your high horse a little bit and prepare for that Mean Green butt kickin!

and

I'm really excited to see a complete Mean Green team with Tony, CJ, Jordan, everyone firing on all cylinders.

and

I remember my freshman year at NT (2009) There was maybe 2 or 3 dunks all season. There is so much athleticism on this team it could be 2 to 3 dunks a half. The guys looked great last night but were all really tired from 2 practices earlier that day. I'm incredibly excited for this coming season and can't wait to see where they go! GMG

if only you had let everyone know how against the hire you were before you spouted all the crap above you would look like a genius instead of someone making up for a punch of spoiled babies that are playing like crap and giving poor effort because they don't want to do work the way their coach tells them to

I would imagine they will give that same effort supersizing it in their future vocation if they keep up the attitude you are making excuses for

Pardon my French, but seriously, what the f**k is wrong with you?