How Much Longer?

[MeanGreenTexan]

I didn't get to see a lot of the games last season so I wanted to go back and see the big difference that everyone is talking about between JJ and Benford coached teams. I didn't want to pick the UTA game because TM didn't play, plus it was such a huge blowout to a mediocre team, I didn't figure it would be fun to watch. I ended up picking the UALR game at home since it was the 5th game that TM, CJ, and JW played together so I figured they had a decent amount of time to get comfortable.

What a joke. I saw UNT score 19 points in the 1st half against UALR (they had 23), just like we did against SELA. I also watched them finally start hitting shots in the 2nd half and build a 7 point lead late in the game, only to let a 3-10 team (at the time) come back and beat our star studded team on our home court. I saw more similarities between that game and the effort so far this year than differences. CJ was missing everything, TM was in foul trouble and refused to post down low (thank goodness for Kedrick Hogans), JW was streaky and missed a WIDE open 3 pointer with a couple of seconds left to tie the game. Yuck.

I hope we were calling for Jones' head after that game.

Looks like you were here for JJ. How far back? Did you not understand the bank he built up over his tenure here? A bad game here and there is perfectly acceptable for a coach who built this thing from the ground up to where we were.

What we're seeing now, and what has us all in panic mode, is a new coach who is dismantling all of that with the greatest assembly of talent we've ever seen here. For me, the panic is rising because I fear we are getting dangerously close to 'losing the team'... and we're only 1/3 of the way through the year.

[UNT90]

I didn't get to see a lot of the games last season so I wanted to go back and see the big difference that everyone is talking about between JJ and Benford coached teams. I didn't want to pick the UTA game because TM didn't play, plus it was such a huge blowout to a mediocre team, I didn't figure it would be fun to watch. I ended up picking the UALR game at home since it was the 5th game that TM, CJ, and JW played together so I figured they had a decent amount of time to get comfortable.

What a joke. I saw UNT score 19 points in the 1st half against UALR (they had 23), just like we did against SELA. I also watched them finally start hitting shots in the 2nd half and build a 7 point lead late in the game, only to let a 3-10 team (at the time) come back and beat our star studded team on our home court. I saw more similarities between that game and the effort so far this year than differences. CJ was missing everything, TM was in foul trouble and refused to post down low (thank goodness for Kedrick Hogans), JW was streaky and missed a WIDE open 3 pointer with a couple of seconds left to tie the game. Yuck.

I hope we were calling for Jones' head after that game.

You do realize that college players are suppose to progress year to year, correct?

You are saying that guys who had played together 5 games should be held to the sane standard of guys who are a year older, had all Fall to practice together, and have played 10 games together.

And who look to have regressed from last year, especially one Tony Mitchell.

If you don't understand that sophomores are supposed to be better players than they were as freshmen, I don't know what to tell you.

Edited December 19, 2012 by UNT90

[GangGreen]

I hope we were calling for Jones' head after that game.

The main difference is track record. At this point last year, we had a coach that had five straight 20 win seasons, two NCAA appearances in that time, and the best 5 year stretch in NT history record wise. Of course you would not want to fire that coach.

Right now, we have a first year coach with no skins that has just shown that so far he can not get a very talented team to perform up to the level that he set for this team.

Have we been spoiled by the last few years? I would say I have.

Do I hope Benford turns it around? Absolutely.

I hope we are looking back at the start of this season chuckling, because we have won another Sun Belt Tournament and are figuring out who we are going to be playing in the Big Dance.

[CurveItAround]

The main difference is track record. At this point last year, we had a coach that had five straight 20 win seasons, two NCAA appearances in that time, and the best 5 year stretch in NT history record wise. Of course you would not want to fire that coach.

Right now, we have a first year coach with no skins that has just shown that so far he can not get a very talented team to perform up to the level that he set for this team.

Have we been spoiled by the last few years? I would say I have.

Do I hope Benford turns it around? Absolutely.

I hope we are looking back at the start of this season chuckling, because we have won another Sun Belt Tournament and are figuring out who we are going to be playing in the Big Dance.

I too, hope everything gets moving in the right direction. I just don't want to give the players any ammunition to quit on this coach this early because we all know that things that get posted on here have a way of making it back to the team. I am confident Benford and RV have received the message loud and clear that the results so far have gone over like a fart in church. The natural reaction is to question the leadership and their techniques as they should. However, I am just trying to keep it real and point out the role the players have in all of this.

Feel free to skip the rest of this post goes way beyond the acceptable post length, but I felt like venting. The following are all just my observations I don't claim to be an expert by any means and I don't pretend to have any inside information:

I can't believe that TM has a complete lack of low post game and has received all the pub that he has. What on earth could they have evaluated at the Stoudamire/James camps and pronounced him the best of the camp at? Dunking ability? He is unquestionably one of the absolute most physically gifted athletes to ever bless UNT, but I have watched every game this season and without many exceptions, he refuses to establish himself in the low post IN FRONT OF his defender. I do not blame Benford for asking TM to provide a low post presence for this team. He should be a beast against the competition we play, but he has so far refused from what I can tell. He seems to pout badly at times when things don't come easy. TM needs to show the type of player he can be, even if someone is asking him to do something that seems different to him. In the end, Benford may be doing him a huge favor by asking him to develop a low post game. I have seen TM shoot. What the hell else is he going to do when he isn't dunking in the pros? Instead, we get 6' 5" Roger Franklin providing the majority of the effective work in the low block.

Benford seems to have tried to also get TM involved at the high post, but again, TM rarely agressively establishes a presence at the elbow so he can receive the ball and create or pass. Instead he gets too far from the basket and a lot of times has to go all the way outside of the 3 point line, where he is no threat. If and when he does get the ball out there, he frequently passes the ball without adding any value.

Benford has also asked TM to set picks out of the high post for the guards. Instead of TM rolling to the basket after setting the pick and looking for a lob dunk, he instead slowly drifts away from the play toward the 3 point line and is a non factor all too many times.

On the rare occasion that TM has been able to get the ball in the low post, he is immediately doubled. Instead of keeping the ball high and looking for an open spot up shooter or weak side dive cutter, he frequently brings the ball down too low and gets in a fight over the ball with a guy much smaller than him and has to make a meaningless pass to a close by teammate. He is not using his size and vision to pass out of the double/triple team to create a positive situation we can attack from. Not that our shooters would actually knock down the shot.

The 3 out 2 in BASIC motion/flow offense we mostly seem to run provides ample opportunity for our guards to touch the ball (as most Big East guard oriented offenses tend to do) and create. The responsibility to create is on the player in this type of system, as most high level guards want. It is up to them to find opportunities within the flow to penetrate and break the defense down. Our inability to consistently knock down an outside shot is a killer because the defense just sits back and clogs the lane, daring us to shoot.

CJ has been very inconsistent this year. He was absolutely shut down against SELA. That is sad. He should feast on teams like that. He has the ball in his hand on every possession and this type of offense is built for a strong guard. He seems to be struggling with the responsibility. JW is athletic and may be best suited coming off the bench as someone on GMG pointed out early on. He can be electric, but his shooting has been terrible in the first part of the season. Maybe he can work his way back in to more minutes.

With all this said, we are still averaging 68 points a game even after the nightmare the other day. If our defensive effort would have been decent, we could have easily won the UAH and ULL games, and the panic would probably not be so severe, but there would still be understandable disappointment.

I am frustrated, but not as frustrated as many of you on here. I am also not to the point where I am ready to lay so much blame at the coach's feet even though we all know the coach has ultimate responsibility for his team's results. Again, I did not see this team play a lot last year and don't have the emotional tie to the year over year improvement that was hoped for. It is too bad that LSU came calling at the time they did.

Edited December 19, 2012 by CurveItAround

[untjim1995]

Coach Tony Benford will be the Head Coach at UNT for at least two more years, probably three. The budget does not have the $$$ to buy out a coach for more then two years, if that. This guy is the coaching combination of Vic Trilli and Shanice Stephens. We have wasted this year, for sure. I suspect that this will be just like the Trilli experience, just without the absolute butt-kickings to OOC teams that we never should have been playing. Instead, we will just barely win OOC games against powerhouses like SE LA, Jackson State, Texas Southern, etc...while losing to the mid-majors we schedule in OOC and then finish at the bottom of the league. After the last game, I just cannot see any hope here--and that was a win!! Any team with at least a modicum of talent will kill this team. UTA and ULL are just like the other teams in SBC and CUSA play that we will not be able to beat. I remember that I thought Vic Trilli could turn things around after his first year here, even though we regularly lost by 30+. I am very much reminded of thos times today, and I suspect that we are in the same place again. You all can -1 me all you want, but there is no reason whatsoever to believe anything we have seen so far will turn out differently over the next few years. We have been Benford'd, just like we were Stephens'd, Dodge'd, and Trilli'd. Hell, we were Dickey'd, too. Pretty soon, we are gonna just call it UNT'd...

[Stan R]

First time I'm seeing the benford'd meme images. Laughed'd!!!

[CabriniGreen]

All...I read a post last year wherein it was said that Brandon Walton could not shoot...him breaking his foot in the first minute of the first game of the season...was a tough BREAK not only for him but the team also. He and Tyler Hall were the only spot up three point shooters last year and Walton is sorely missed this year. TM played the 5-spot last year just like he is this year...the difference, teams had to respect Walton and his shooting so they could not send two, three and sometimes four guys at Mitchell. Guys its not the coach or coaches...until we start to knock down some shots, its going to be tough....we have penetrators but when the lane is clogged they can't do much....even with that this team is losing some close games (minus UTA, LeHigh, Virginia and a ranked Creighton team)....-3 to Alabama-Huntsville (not your everyday D2 school...-4 UL-Lafayette...-4 St. Louis....-6 Western Kentucky (after Chris Jones went down with an ankle injury in a place where JJ won only once E.A. Diddle). JJ didn't win at MiddleTennessee either so who knows what will happen later tonight. Additionally JJ didn't win 20 plus games every year...remember he started out 15-14, 7-21, 13-15, 14-14, 14-14 before breaking out in the 2006-07 season with a 23-11 record.

TJ Taylor is a shooter and Walton returns and hoepfully Clarke Overlander will settle down and not rush his shots...who knows TM may stay and if he does he will not have to play the 5-spot or the 4-spot as we have legit bigs coming in to play in the paint, let TM range on the wing ,where he will play on the next level...this along with the aforementioned Taylor, Walton and Overlander should make for a very different atmosphere.

[Army of Dad]

All...I read a post last year wherein it was said that Brandon Walton could not shoot...him breaking his foot in the first minute of the first game of the season...was a tough BREAK not only for him but the team also. He and Tyler Hall were the only spot up three point shooters last year and Walton is sorely missed this year. TM played the 5-spot last year just like he is this year...the difference, teams had to respect Walton and his shooting so they could not send two, three and sometimes four guys at Mitchell. Guys its not the coach or coaches...until we start to knock down some shots, its going to be tough....we have penetrators but when the lane is clogged they can't do much....even with that this team is losing some close games (minus UTA, LeHigh, Virginia and a ranked Creighton team)....-3 to Alabama-Huntsville (not your everyday D2 school...-4 UL-Lafayette...-4 St. Louis....-6 Western Kentucky (after Chris Jones went down with an ankle injury in a place where JJ won only once E.A. Diddle). JJ didn't win at MiddleTennessee either so who knows what will happen later tonight. Additionally JJ didn't win 20 plus games every year...remember he started out 15-14, 7-21, 13-15, 14-14, 14-14 before breaking out in the 2006-07 season with a 23-11 record.

TJ Taylor is a shooter and Walton returns and hoepfully Clarke Overlander will settle down and not rush his shots...who knows TM may stay and if he does he will not have to play the 5-spot or the 4-spot as we have legit bigs coming in to play in the paint, let TM range on the wing ,where he will play on the next level...this along with the aforementioned Taylor, Walton and Overlander should make for a very different atmosphere.

Benford was given a team that was on the fast track to conference championship, a NBA lottery draft pick caliber player and a supporting cast among the best in school history. JJ cleaned up the mess from the last coach. It looks like we will need to find another JJ whenever we finally give Benford his walking papers. JJ took a train wreck and rebuilt it into a respectable team.. Benford has turned that team into a dumpster fire. Edited January 1, 2013 by Army of Dad

[ragpicker]

Bring back the original Scrappy and everything will fall in to place.