How Much Longer?

Green P1 · December 17, 2012

How much longer can anyone possibly defend the coach in all of this? How much longer can any rational human continue to believe that the entire team has lost the ability to play the game they were awarded a scholarship to play? How much longer can anyone who claims to be a Mean Green fan falsely claim that a new coach needs his system in place? How much longer can we let this season circle the drain as an utter failure while the student body loses interest? How much longer can this go on?

Questions. Info plz.

UNTMike81 · December 17, 2012

I don't know. Please put me out of my missery. I looked forward to this basketball season like no other. I didn't know how far the season would carry UNT BB, but with Mr. Mitchell and our other players I thought this season was going to be special. I didn't realize RV would bring us another Todd Dodge hire!!! It's sad, in RV's defense I don't think he thought or even phathomed that Coach Benford would be a Todd Dodge hire. Clearly it was, and the honymoon is over!!! Unfortunately drastic action is necessary. I don't know if RV has the guts to take care of business. Below is a repost of comments I made in "Fire him...It's time", but my post was on page 10. I really believe in what I posted then so here's goes once more.

RV do you have GUT’s to FIRE Benford, or cost UNT Millions and TM Millions?

RV, Here the reality. Our old coach Johnny Jones who many continue to say couldn’t coach his way out of a paper bag just beat Seaton Hall at his new home LSU. The Tiger’s are 5-0. Many will say why continue to refer to JJ on the MGB about UNT, he’s gone. The reason, I need a point of reference to compare our team’s potential in 2012-13 with the right coach to what we’ve been given by hiring coach Benford and the system he’s trying to install, if any, what it is, and if it even remotely fits the talent, or lack of talent UNT posses at certain positions on the floor. JJ for all of his flaws from an X’s or O’s standpoint always installed a system that fit the strengths of the players he had available offensively or defensively. JJ’s system also masked or negated his player’s weakness as much as possible so his team’s strengths were enough to secure W’s for UNT.

I wrote this post after UTA lose, but work 2 jobs and didn’t see our last game. I did ready a few posts around 10^th page and some posters saying "TM and Coleman are cry babies". Was TM a cry baby when JJ was here? Maybe there is a reason someone shows emotions that aren’t Ra, Ra, and happy go lucky when TM is seeing literally Millions fly out of his back pocket!!!

Here’s the point! The clock is ticking. Tony Mitchell will only be here one season!! He’s NBA bound. TM is probably the most talented player in UNT history only equaled by Mean “Joe Green” and others from the 60’s, or early 70’s. Pro Salaries we’re what they were in those days. Once Mr. Mitchell’s a pro he can donate more money to UNT athletics than almost anyone who’s ever attended UNT. I guess Nora Jones could, Norm Miller Interstate Battery (his company only funds Joe Gibbs (former Washington Redskin’s coach) racing to the tune of 15 to 20 Million a year), and others, but don’t see them stepping up to the plate, I digress!! Point is Tony Mitchell will have the financial resources to do wonderful things for UNT, from a monetary standpoint, recruiting, and millions in PR now and for years to come. UNT can’t buy enough ad time, get to enough bowls games to equal Mr. Mitchell’s PR power. The problem is Coach Benford “system” change and subsequent 3 – 5 record have and I fear will continue to damage UNT basketball for years to come.

A brilliant AD in UNT’s past fired Bill Blakely. Coach Blakely had recruited Spud Webb to UNT, you may remember him. Mr. Webb was a part of the NC State team that beat U of H with “Phi Slama Jama” (Hakeem Olajuwon and Clyde Drexler) for the NCAA national championship in 1983. Later Mr. Webb would go on to a productive career in the NBA with the Atlanta Hawks for years. That brilliant AD hired Tommy Newman to replace Bill Blakely and Coach Newman told Spud Webb “the up tempo game you play” doesn’t fit the half court offense I’m installing here at UNT and pulled Mr. Webb’s scholarship. Bill Blakely called Jim Valvano coach of NC State and the rest is history. This and other bonehead AD moves have kept UNT athletics in the seller for decades. It’s taken our men’s basketball program over 30 years that that point in time to become relevant. RV you to have the opportunity to be remembered in much the same light as that former UNT AD!!

I’m not happy about history repeating itself some 30 years later or at least having some similarities, but here we are like it or not!! I assure you none of us in the Mean Green Nation like what we’re facing; however, the reality is our team should be performing much better than it is. How much better, I don’t know, but with an All American that went to Amare Stoudemire and Lebron James camp and was touted as having the best camp of any of the invitees, you be the judge. Oh, you might say well what about the other players on our team? Seems to me right before Chris Jones and Jordan Williams were academically ineligible they were playing pretty good basketball without Mr. Mitchell’s talent on our team. The point is you can blame the players on our team if you wish, but the coach you hired told you he would have this team with all its talent or lack there of playing at a far different level than the mean green nation is watching now.

John Odo must be the smartest college student I’ve ever heard of, or the luckiest. Take your pick. Again, I digress.

Are you really going to give Coach Benford the benefit of the doubt and shipwreck our team with the most talented player UNT has ever seen grace it’s doorstep in the last 40 years, or maybe ever? Option B, you take bold action like Western Kentucky did last year and not accept where their coach had their team no matter the circumstances!! WKU pull the rip cord, fired coach and by the end of the year beat, guess who, UNT in the SBC Championship game. To UNT’s credit we were riddled with injuries and the ref’s all but handed WKU the game on a silver platter.

If you keep Coach Benford how many future recruiting battles do you expect him to win against Scott Cross, Johnny Jones and other coaches that come to mind? How difficult will it be for you and your promotion department to fill the Super Pit with UNT faithful as they watch our team continue to struggle? How bad will our team look this year and how will this affect Tony Mitchell. If our team hurts TM’s efforts at top lottery pick in the NBA how likely will it be that Mr. Mitchell donates his hard earned NBA dollars to UNT? UNT’s current record and on court play is sure to be much more devastating to Tony Mitchell than his trial’s and tribulations trying to attend UofM. This situation is truly costing Mr. Mitchell, or potentially costing him Million’s of dollars. If I were in this situation I’d probably miss basketball practice after my team was steam rolled by UTA.

As far as Mr. Mitchell’s character is concerned when his grades were in question, what did TM do, hit the books and get the grades necessary to be a part of our basketball team. What has TM, the other players, and UNT fans been blessed with 3-5 and a loss to a D2 school and a spanking Past that you maybe worried about Coach Benford’s buy out clause in this contract. I understand your concern. I just have one question? If you hire the right coach ASAP, and get our team playing like we know they can and make the SBC and NCAA tournaments. Then Mr. Mitchell might be in a better position to donate to UNT and one day over Coach Benford’s buy clause. I know this situation is a hard one to reconcile, but I pray you take the correct and appropriate action needed soon.

Fire coach Benford!! If he didn’t know or foresee the hot seat and microscope he’d be under by taking this job, he should have!!! The clock is ticking…what’s it going to be? No guts no glory. You to can be remember is the same light as our AD who never let Spud Webb grace the doorstep of UNT.

RV you’ve accomplished to much at UNT for your reputation to be stained like Coach Benford is accomplishing in the here and now!!!

greenminer · December 17, 2012

Slightly long.

Greendylan · December 17, 2012

It's really sad to me because with each game I feel more and more like I'm witnessing the dismantling of something special that was built over the past six (in some ways longer) years. Unfortunately, we don't have the type of brand that can help us bounce back after a disappointing year. For us, we have to perpetually keep the momentum going because once it's gone, it's probably gone for many years to come (see football as an example). We were supposed to be a 25-50 RPI team, and right now we're over 200 spots lower than we should be.

We may not have a perfect roster. We may not be injury free. We may not possess completely harmonious, symbiotic team chemistry. But we still have arguably the most celebrated roster in our history, and it's unlikely that we'll ever again be able to assemble this level of talent. So, unless something changes...the way we're playing right now is as good as it gets.

I fear that we'll lose the next three games, which would put us at 5-9, 0-3 to end December. Right now I'm trying to figure out which team shows up against Lehigh: the one from the second half of the Jackson State game or today's Mean Green. If it's the former, we'll lose by 20; if it's the latter we might lose by as much as 40. If I'm wrong about the direction this team is headed, then I think this game will show it. However, if it goes as badly as I fear, then I think we really need to consider making an abrupt and difficult decision. There is still time to salvage this season and accomplish many of those dreams we all had a couple months ago, but that will clearly require a change in leadership. The other option is to throw our arms up in the air, accept a losing record this season, recognize that the next few years are similarly destined to end in sub-.500 records, and then finally admit that a poor hiring decision was made. At that point, with recruiting pipelines that have dried up, a dearth of prestige or regional respect, and utter irrelevance in the world of college basketball, we get the pleasure of rebuilding and enjoying several more losing seasons. I would prefer that we choose to start winning now...while we still can.

UNT90 · December 17, 2012

In answer to the thread topic's question, at least 2 more seasons after this one.

Unless, of course, P1 has a cool million to donate toward this cause.

What is sad is to see student attndance, which was almost 3 sections strong last year, dwindle away.

Only at UNT.

H-towngreen · December 17, 2012

Mike, were stuck with him. Like 90 said, we don't have the money to buy him out.

Travis Scott · December 17, 2012

Please just keep going to the games and supporting the team. Conference play comes very soon and they will need us to be there. That's all we can do as fans.

Green Mean · December 17, 2012

RV got Shanice Stephens'd.

Tree · December 17, 2012

I want to see how they do in Little Rock. That is where it counts. Hopefully they will have the offense going by then.

MeanGreenTexan · December 17, 2012

I want to see how they do in Little Rock. That is where it counts. Hopefully they will have the offense going by then.

Probably kinda how they played against ULL where it 'counted' the first time.

Green Dog · December 18, 2012

TM donating even one dime back to UNT when he goes pro? Please pass me the pipe when your done! I've got to have some of that stuff.

Green P1 · December 18, 2012

I don't remember creating this thread. Probably the most productive thing I've ever done with my phone at the end of a long Sunday Funday.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Green P1

KRAM1 · December 18, 2012

TM donating even one dime back to UNT when he goes pro? Please pass me the pipe when your done! I've got to have some of that stuff.

The percentage of scholarship athletes overall who donate back to their college/university is surprisingly small.

letsgiveacheer · December 18, 2012

Agree, I once remember seeing Joe Green's name at the same level of donations as me. And this was while he was a Regent!

buff64 · December 18, 2012

From what I've seen you cannot defend the players either. Regardless of the coach these young men were supposed to be players.

UNT90 · December 19, 2012

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="buff64" data-cid="696445" data-time="1355870490">
From what I've seen you cannot defend the players either. Regardless of the coach these young men were supposed to be players.</blockquote>

It's the coaches' job to make sure players progress. TM was a 5 star recruit. CJ was the #7 player in the state of Texas. JW was #107 ranked player in the nation.

None of them can hit an outside shot. TM does not post up strong down low.

This is a development problem. Development is the coaching staff's responsibility.

Many in our conference have far less raw talent to work with.

You can blame talented but raw 20 year olds if you want, but anyone who knows badketball knows where the blame really lies.

Edited December 19, 2012 by UNT90

KRAM1 · December 19, 2012

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="buff64" data-cid="696445" data-time="1355870490">
From what I've seen you cannot defend the players either. Regardless of the coach these young men were supposed to be players.</blockquote>
It's the coaches' job to make sure players progress. TM was a 5 star recruit. CJ was the #7 player in the state of Texas. JW was #107 ranked player in the nation.
None of them can hit an outside shot. TM does not post up strong down low.
This is a development problem. Development is the coaching staff's responsibility.
Many in our conference have far less raw talent to work with.
You can blame talented bit raw 20 year olds if you want, but anyone who knows badketball knows where the Blake really lies.

I hear he lies with that country music star wife of his......

Mean Green Matt · December 19, 2012

How much longer will NT make bad coaching hires in major sports?

TheTastyGreek · December 19, 2012

KRAM1 · December 19, 2012

How much longer will NT make bad coaching hires in major sports?

How long will we keep seeing this kind of post? Question....no answer.

UNTcrazy727 · December 19, 2012

How long will we keep seeing this kind of post? Question....no answer.</blockquote>

Probably until we stop making horrific hires in the only two sports that matter

Mean Green Matt · December 19, 2012

How long will we keep seeing this kind of post? Question....no answer.

I understand these are really tough hires to make. What perplexes me is that we have heard during the coaching search for the last two major hires (sorry, not counting women's basketball), that we are looking to hire proven winners with head coaching experience. That was not achieved with either hire. Regardless of what happens in the future, that fact will remain unchanged.

Green P1 · December 19, 2012

How long will we keep seeing this kind of post? Question....no answer.

CurveItAround · December 19, 2012

I didn't get to see a lot of the games last season so I wanted to go back and see the big difference that everyone is talking about between JJ and Benford coached teams. I didn't want to pick the UTA game because TM didn't play, plus it was such a huge blowout to a mediocre team, I didn't figure it would be fun to watch. I ended up picking the UALR game at home since it was the 5th game that TM, CJ, and JW played together so I figured they had a decent amount of time to get comfortable.

What a joke. I saw UNT score 19 points in the 1st half against UALR (they had 23), just like we did against SELA. I also watched them finally start hitting shots in the 2nd half and build a 7 point lead late in the game, only to let a 3-10 team (at the time) come back and beat our star studded team on our home court. I saw more similarities between that game and the effort so far this year than differences. CJ was missing everything, TM was in foul trouble and refused to post down low (thank goodness for Kedrick Hogans), JW was streaky and missed a WIDE open 3 pointer with a couple of seconds left to tie the game. Yuck.

I hope we were calling for Jones' head after that game.

Edited December 19, 2012 by CurveItAround

Army of Dad · December 19, 2012

I didn't get to see a lot of the games last season so I wanted to go back and see the big difference that everyone is talking about between JJ and Benford coached teams. I didn't want to pick the UTA game because TM didn't play, plus it was such a huge blowout to a mediocre team, I didn't figure it would be fun to watch. I ended up picking the UALR game at home since it was the 5th game that TM, CJ, and JW played together so I figured they had a decent amount of time to get comfortable.

What a joke. I saw UNT score 19 points in the 1st half against UALR (they had 23), just like we did against SELA. I also watched them finally start hitting shots in the 2nd half and build a 7 point lead late in the game, only to let a 3-10 team (at the time) come back and beat our star studded team on our home court. I saw more similarities between that game and the effort so far this year than differences. CJ was missing everything, TM was in foul trouble and refused to post down low (thank goodness for Kedrick Hogans), JW was streaky and missed a WIDE open 3 pointer with a couple of seconds left to tie the game. Yuck.

I hope we were calling for Jones' head after that game.

I'm sure there was a jokey post that JJ should hav been fired. Two NCAA tourney berths earn you a little latitude. Benford hasn't done anything positive here so far and this team seems to get worse just about every game.