Wow, Josh Brent is on the Cowboys sideline....

[Monkeypox]

The victim's family requested that they support Brent and wanted him on the sidelines. I certainly wouldn't... but I can't be offended by the wishes of the VICTIM'S family. That's the message that I think some people are missing. If you have a problem with it, take it up with the VICTIM'S FAMILY.

That is not something to get confused with a criminal trial or some kind of societal statement.

If this were a member of MY family, you can bet I wouldn't want this guy seeing the light of day.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Sounds like the media tells you what to think, You may want to check your logic.

Don't know if you may also be lumping me in with Mean Green 93-98, but I bet I would speak for him when saying that the media has Zero input on my conviction of: a drunk driver killing his passenger/anyone is a terrible thing. I don't need media or anyone else to tell me that.

If the TV cameras didn't catch him on the sideline, then this would all be a moot point, because we'd probably never have known. Maybe that is your argument? If not, and your argument is that this guy who killed someone by driving while drunk should be fine to do whatever he pleases, I don't get it.

His teammates were worried about his fragile psyche. OK. I certainly wouldn't want the guy to kill himself. I can understand internal guilt for this type of act. I'm sure he feels terrible, but in no way shape or form does that excuse his decision and the consequences that followed. The sooner he goes to prison the better.

I think the Cowboys brass reacted the same way everyone else did, as it was reported that they asked him to leave the sideline when they found out he was there.

[KingDL1]

Don't know if you may also be lumping me in with Mean Green 93-98, but I bet I would speak for him when saying that the media has Zero input on my conviction of: a drunk driver killing his passenger/anyone is a terrible thing. I don't need media or anyone else to tell me that.

If the TV cameras didn't catch him on the sideline, then this would all be a moot point, because we'd probably never have known. Maybe that is your argument? If not, and your argument is that this guy who killed someone by driving while drunk should be fine to do whatever he pleases, I don't get it.

His teammates were worried about his fragile psyche. OK. I certainly wouldn't want the guy to kill himself. I can understand internal guilt for this type of act. I'm sure he feels terrible, but in no way shape or form does that excuse his decision and the consequences that followed. The sooner he goes to prison the better.

I think the Cowboys brass reacted the same way everyone else did, as it was reported that they asked him to leave the sideline when they found out he was there.

Where do you get your BS, how in the hell does being with the team endorse drinking and driving plus killing his passenger. How do you make that jump? There is no implied message, there is no message at all until the media starts trying to create one, Period! The rest is bullshit politics and spin. The real story is several of his teammates asked him to be there and that is all anyone needs to know if that. Your message is anyone that screws up should be an outcast until they have met your criteria for some sort of penance. Because of course everything we do is about sending a message. For Christ sake.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Sounds like the media tells you what to think, You may want to check your logic.

I live 500 miles from the Metroplex, and other than logically inferring from your posts would have no idea what the media were saying about this situation, or if they were saying anything about it at all. They certainly aren't talking about it in North Central Arkansas.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Where do you get your BS, how in the hell does being with the team endorse drinking and driving plus killing his passenger. How do you make that jump? There is no implied message, there is no message at all until the media starts trying to create one, Period! The rest is bullshit politics and spin. The real story is several of his teammates asked him to be there and that is all anyone needs to know if that. Your message is anyone that screws up should be an outcast until they have met your criteria for some sort of penance. Because of course everything we do is about sending a message. For Christ sake.

When logic fails, just jump up and down and yell curse words. It's much more impressive that way.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Where do you get your BS, how in the hell does being with the team endorse drinking and driving plus killing his passenger. How do you make that jump? There is no implied message, there is no message at all until the media starts trying to create one, Period! The rest is bullshit politics and spin. The real story is several of his teammates asked him to be there and that is all anyone needs to know if that. Your message is anyone that screws up should be an outcast until they have met your criteria for some sort of penance. Because of course everything we do is about sending a message. For Christ sake.

Again, I promise I don't need media to tell me anything. The camera zoomed in on him on the sideline and before anyone (media, or anyone else) said anything, I said, "dude doesn't need to be there." Why? Because he is guilty of driving while drunk and killing someone. I don't understand why that makes me a media sheep.

This is a pretty monumental screw-up wouldn't you say? It's not like he was caught stealing $50-$500. A life was lost because of the actions of this guy. And sure, Brown was probably sloshed as well when he got in the car, but that is not an excuse for his action.

Again, there is a huge difference between forgiveness from the victim's family and societal acceptance. I chose not to accept drinking & driving. Ever. I don't need media to tell me, or "spin" (good grief) anything. It is wrong. It is wrong. It is WRONG.

[KingDL1]

Again, I promise I don't need media to tell me anything. The camera zoomed in on him on the sideline and before anyone (media, or anyone else) said anything, I said, "dude doesn't need to be there." Why? Because he is guilty of driving while drunk and killing someone. I don't understand why that makes me a media sheep.

This is a pretty monumental screw-up wouldn't you say? It's not like he was caught stealing $50-$500. A life was lost because of the actions of this guy. And sure, Brown was probably sloshed as well when he got in the car, but that is not an excuse for his action.

Again, there is a huge difference between forgiveness from the victim's family and societal acceptance. I chose not to accept drinking & driving. Ever. I don't need media to tell me, or "spin" (good grief) anything. It is wrong. It is wrong. It is WRONG.

Why is there a message at all? You don't get it do you? What makes you think they endorse him as a drunk driver? Where do you or anyone have the high and mighty gall to connect those dots, and make the worst assumption? It is not your business, not mine, and not the media's. You seem to be conditioned to think there must me a message there, guess what there was not.

Edited December 19, 2012 by KingDL1

[KingDL1]

When logic fails, just jump up and down and yell curse words. It's much more impressive that way.

Gee when you find some logic let me know.

[Censored by Laurie]

This just has to be the strangest thing for which to pull the soap box out of storage.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Why is there a message at all? You don't get it do you? What makes you think they endorse him as a drunk driver? Where do you or anyone have the high and mighty gall to connect those dots, and make the worst assumption? It is not your business, not mine, and not the media's. You seem to be conditioned to think there must me a message there, guess what there was not.

Whoa! Maybe I'm being mis-understood? Or, am I being had by a bit?

I'm not trying to say the Cowboys are making an official stance: "Drinking and driving is Cool with us!!", by having Josh Brent on the sideline. That would be ludicrous.

And I guess I'm totally lost on what you mean by: "Why is there a message at all?" I'm not trying to say that there is a "message" being sent by anyone. The Cowboys, the media, Josh Brent, anyone...

Boiling it down, I'm saying:

1. Drunk Driving is wrong. Maybe this is a personal conviction that you and I don't share?!? I thought this stance was pretty much accepted in society as a whole.

2. A Drunk Driver who kills someone should be punished by the legal system to the fullest extent, as this is an unacceptable act. Again, maybe this is a personal conviction??

3. When a Drunk Driver who kills someone is out on bond/bail, it's best to lay low and not be seen having a grand ol' time out in public. That projects a bit of crass-ness and lack of lament. This one may be more open to debate... and maybe this is where you're argument lies?

I understand that he was brought to the game by concerned teammates. So this has nothing to do with the Cowboys as an organization, as all reports are indicating that officials had no idea he was going to be there. I do not believe the Cowboys are trying to "send a message". If anything, they sent their message when they asked him to leave the sideline.

I'm sorry King, it seems I'm just getting blindly following media accusations hurled at me without any kind of points being made. Surely we are mis-understanding each other here?

...Otherwise, you pulled me way offside on this bit. Nice one.

[KingDL1]

This just has to be the strangest thing for which to pull the soap box out of storage.

There is huge trap here most are not aware, I have had it beat in to my head from different strategic management programs when learning to listen and understand.

With the media doing it all the time, we make up our own stories.

Here for instance people have decided that there has to be a message or the guy would not be there. Just reading this in some people's eyes this guy is now just about the same as cold blooded murderer and has no value. They would seem to be fine if Brent found a length of rope and put himself out of their misery. So how dare the team support him as a human being, because that means they support the drunk driving and killing that went with it.

[Censored by Laurie]

There is huge trap here most are not aware, I have had it beat in to my head from different strategic management programs when learning to listen and understand.

With the media doing it all the time, we make up our own stories.

Here for instance people have decided that there has to be a message or the guy would not be there. Just reading this in some people's eyes this guy is now just about the same as cold blooded murderer and has no value. They would seem to be fine if Brent found a length of rope and put himself out of their misery. So how dare the team support him as a human being, because that means they support the drunk driving and killing that went with it.

Short of having a camera on the Cowboys' sideline during a nationally televised game, how has the "media" influenced (poor word choice?) anyone's opinion?

I'd be willing to wager some serious coin that most weighing in on this subject here have driven drunk...probably multiple times. As such, I think most identify with the fact that on those multiple occasions, this story could well have played out for them...so no, I don't think people see him as a "cold-blooded murderer" and are able to differentiate between a calculated killing and a horrible mistake that he's going to have to live with the rest of his life.

And with that in mind, the Cowboys are right to levy their to support Brent through this.

I think the falling down here is what one deems as appropriate "support". I think those you're having the disagreement here feel that "support" means a public backing, providing legal counsel and perhaps some sort of psychological support. His being on the side-lines during a game however...I feel many would say that while that fact may not condone his act, his being allowed to maintain that level of normalcy does at the very least show a lack of tact. It would appear that both the Cowboys and NFL who stated it was a mistake to have him on the sidelines would agree.

[Coffee and TV]

Are you a woman? Because you are absolutely incapable of thinking logically.

WTF.

[MeanGreenTexan]

There is huge trap here most are not aware, I have had it beat in to my head from different strategic management programs when learning to listen and understand.

With the media doing it all the time, we make up our own stories.

Here for instance people have decided that there has to be a message or the guy would not be there. Just reading this in some people's eyes this guy is now just about the same as cold blooded murderer and has no value. They would seem to be fine if Brent found a length of rope and put himself out of their misery. So how dare the team support him as a human being, because that means they support the drunk driving and killing that went with it.

Wait, again you are referencing a "message". I don't know if this is directed at me, but could you maybe define what this "message" is, and how my comments are in violation? Maybe you don't mean me, if not, OK. I'll move on.

Concerning the bolded comment above, I don't know how to say it any more clearly:

...

His teammates were worried about his fragile psyche. OK. I certainly wouldn't want the guy to kill himself. I can understand internal guilt for this type of act. I'm sure he feels terrible, but in no way shape or form does that excuse his decision and the consequences that followed.

...

Maybe you weren't directing the bolded comment at me. If not, OK. I'll move on.

I know the team and even the organization can, and probably should "support" him (in a grieving friend who made a mistake kind of way), and that appears to be intent of the players who encouraged him to come. And inferring from your comment above, you also believe the Cowboys organization should not "support" a drunk driver. I think there is a gray line there and he's squarely in the middle of it. If I'm Jerry Jones or Rich Dalrymple, I remove my organization from any interpretations by media/society by removing him from the sideline. That is exactly what they did. Does it mean that in private Jerry or Rich can't say, "Hey Josh, chin up. It's gonna be OK."? No. They certainly can!

I think it's human nature to put your arm around a friend who made a huge mistake and say, "chin up". But at the same time, he needs to see prison time because of the ramifications of his actions. If he truly feels remorse and is ready to remedy his wrong after his punishment, he will hopefully come out of prison and go on a mission of speaking to NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL?/teams or anyone who will listen about the dangers of drunk driving. He can have a positive impact on society. I genuinely hope he does.

[KingDL1]

I think the falling down here is what one deems as appropriate "support". I think those you're having the disagreement here feel that "support" means a public backing, providing legal counsel and perhaps some sort of psychological support. His being on the side-lines during a game however...I feel many would say that while that fact may not condone his act, his being allowed to maintain that level of normalcy does at the very least show a lack of tact. It would appear that both the Cowboys and NFL who stated it was a mistake to have him on the sidelines would agree.

If the media did not make a PR nightmare out of it the team and the NFL would have left it alone, most of the public would not have not cared. The media decided to focus on it when they very well could have left it alone. The NFL and the Cowboys did what was the easiest to do in the PR situation that developed.

But in essense you nailed it, but I would rather do what Brown's mother wanted.

[Green P1]

Leaonard Little and Donte Stallworth think y'all are overreacting.

[KingDL1]

Wait, again you are referencing a "message". I don't know if this is directed at me, but could you maybe define what this "message" is, and how my comments are in violation? Maybe you don't mean me, if not, OK. I'll move on.

Concerning the bolded comment above, I don't know how to say it any more clearly:

Maybe you weren't directing the bolded comment at me. If not, OK. I'll move on.

I know the team and even the organization can, and probably should "support" him (in a grieving friend who made a mistake kind of way), and that appears to be intent of the players who encouraged him to come. And inferring from your comment above, you also believe the Cowboys organization should not "support" a drunk driver. I think there is a gray line there and he's squarely in the middle of it. If I'm Jerry Jones or Rich Dalrymple, I remove my organization from any interpretations by media/society by removing him from the sideline. That is exactly what they did. Does it mean that in private Jerry or Rich can't say, "Hey Josh, chin up. It's gonna be OK."? No. They certainly can!

I think it's human nature to put your arm around a friend who made a huge mistake and say, "chin up". But at the same time, he needs to see prison time because of the ramifications of his actions. If he truly feels remorse and is ready to remedy his wrong after his punishment, he will hopefully come out of prison and go on a mission of speaking to NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL?/teams or anyone who will listen about the dangers of drunk driving. He can have a positive impact on society. I genuinely hope he does.

It is all you?

No, not at all, to me the media doesn't know when to leave things alone. Especially in sports.

It seems you have gone more to the middle, but if you think there is no message why do you (by you I mean anyone in the world that feels that way) care if Brent is on the sidelines? It is clear he going before a Judge and maybe a jury and he will get what our system feels he should. In Texas DUI laws have literally gotten harsher than some child molester laws I have been told, I am sure Brent will get his.

I do hope something good comes out of this.

Edited December 19, 2012 by KingDL1

[KingDL1]

Leaonard Little and Donte Stallworth think y'all are overreacting.

It is the Off season

[KingDL1]

I still think this was not any outsiders business, not CBS, not Bill Cowher, not the NFL.

The thing that bothers me the most now as I reflect on this thread, is the media and the rest they had the opportunity to embrace what the team did by bringing Brent to the sidelines when it would be easier to have his teammates turn their backs on him to begin with, especially when every mistake and anything controversial is magnified by the press. Here in the middle of the Holidays so many are up in arms that the wrong message of support for drinking and driving may be derived from this team's actions. But they could have gone a different direction the one that shows forgiveness and support of a fellow teammate that has done something which for me would be one of my worst nightmares. Nothing the state could do to me would be worse than living with the guilt of being the cause of my best friend's death. Maybe I am some sympathetic fool I remember how me and my best friends could push each other into drinking more shots than we should until my young man judgment was impaired and I did many foolish things. I know that I could have been Brown easily 20+ years ago, and at that age group I could have easily pushed Brent to drink more plus push him to drive. I was bulletproof in my early twenties so were most of my friends we made poor decisions at times. Luckily my whole group made it through our twenties unscathed.

Merry Christmas, Happy Festivus, belated Happy Hanukkah, Canandian Boxing day, Happy Kwanzaa and just to cover anything I might have missed Happy Holidays to all!

[NT03]

Apparently someone didn't learn a lesson. Reports saying Jay Ratliff arrested this morning on DWI charge.

[Green P1]

Apparently someone didn't learn a lesson. Reports saying Jay Ratliff arrested this morning on DWI charge.

He's done the Cowboys a big favor. This makes it all the easier to cut loose that bloated contract. All the years of playing nose have left Rat an overpaid/under-preforming injury-prone shell of his former self.