Coaches Who Accepted 4-Year Or Less Contracts

FirefightnRick · December 14, 2012

First let me say Im still behind Coach Benford and pray he figures this thing out. I think he is a good man, comes from good basketball stock and wants to win here more than anyone.

With that said, I have heard now from more than a few sources that No coach worth his salt would EVER consider less than a 5 Year contract. This was in defense of the Stephens and Dodge contracts. Evidently they were worth their salt despite the fact they were unproven at the college level as head coaches.

Then we see fans here defending Benfords 5 year contract with comments like(industry standard)...(five year deals are what)..99.9999 percent of every new coaching contract stipulates..as if to say,We must give out 5 year deals to get a good coach at North Texas.

It's my opinion that this simply is not true, and programs all across the country are doing their homework researching and finding good, solid coaches for less. Sometimes, much less. It may be the "Industry Standard" for programs who have cash to throw around when their hires are disasters, but I don't consider North Texas one of those programs. We are not in the industry of throwing cash around. Coaches want to coach, and considering how many of them there are, and that there are only 344 spots available many of them will take less if they have to, and many have.

However, let me point out that it is very difficult to dispell this so called industry standard. It almost seems as if it would be easier to obtain the launch codes at NORAD than obtain the terms of a college coachs contract. Most of the 344 division 1 programs make it policy to not give out terms of contracts of their new hires, especially the private schools. Many reporters have to file Freedom Of Information requests to get this information for new hires and that is what Vito had to do with Benford's contract. And to find terms of contracts for older hires you sometimes can trace back through contract extensions, if they were even announced, and hope to find the information through an interview of someone within the department. But most times this info just isnt available.

Regardless, its very difficult and time consuming. That is why I only did a search for coaches who have been hired in the past 4 years. There are 206 of them. I found AT LEAST 32 different programs who signed coaches to 4 year contracts....or less since 2006.

29 of these programs hired coaches to 4 years or less since 2008 and have retained them so far, which is right at 14% of all of the 206 hires since 2008. As for the remaining 138 current coacheswho knows?

The current coaches working under a 4 year or less contract.

Donnie Tyndall.....Southern Mississippi,................4 Years,.......Hired April 29th, 2012

Dave Pilipovich........Air Force...................................3 Years.........March 3rd, 2012

Cuonzo Martin...........Tennessee,.............................4 Years,...........July 10th, 2012

............Martin was hired during an NCAA scandal and coached his first 15 months without a contract..Memorandum

............Of Understandingwent 19-15 that first yearthen signed his 4 year contract.

Rick Ray.................Mississippi State,.....................4 Years,........July 10th, 2012

Ray Harper.............Western Kentucky....................4 Years,.......April 1, 2012

Mike Jarvis..............Florida Atlantic.........................4 Years,..........May 28th, 2012

Corlis Williams........Central Arkansas.........................3 Years..........March 12th, 2012

Pat Knight..............Lamar..........................................3 Years,..............April 5th, 2011

Steve Prohm.............Murray State,.............................4 Years,.........May 23rd, 2012

Mitch Buonaguro........Siena,.....................................4 Years,...........April 2012

Dickey Nutt..........Southeast Missouri State,...............4 Years,.........March 12, 2009

.........Previously at Ark State, just a few wins shy of all time leading coach there.

Danny Manning..............Tulsa,..................................4 Years,..........March 2012

Willis Wilson..........Texas A&M Corpus Christi,...........4 Years,.........March 31st, 2011

David Rice......................UNLV,.................................3 Years,........July 28th 2011

....Rice went 26-7 his first yearTHEN was awarded a 5 Year Contract extension......Imagine that..A Program giving a coach

....the chance to earn his pay with a trial run 3 Year deal first?

Randy Rahe...................Weber State,.......................4 Years,...........March 23rd, 2006

Casey Alexander............Stetson,..............................3 Years,...............April 20th 2011

Gib Arnold...........................Hawaii,..........................3 Years,.........March 19th 2010

Mo Cassara.......................Hofstra,..........................3 Years,............May 5th 2010

Chico Potts............Mississippi Valley State,...............4 Years,...........June 20th 2012

Scott Cherry.....................Highpoint,..........................4 Years,...........March 27th 2009

B. J. Hill............................Northern Colorado,.............3 Years...........April 2010

Clemon Johnson...............Florida A&M,......................4 Years,...........May 21st 2011

Jay Spoonhour.................Eastern Illinois,...................3 Years,............April 1st 2012

Roman Banks......................Southern,.........................3 Years,.............April 2011

Mike Davis....................Texas Southern,......................4 Years,..........October 25th 2012

Rob Senderhoff................Kent State,..........................3 Years,..................April 8th 2011

Cy Alexander.................North Carolina A&T.............4 Years.......................May 1st 2012

Jason Capel..................Appalachian State,.................4 Years,...................April 22nd 2010

Luther Riley........................Alcorn State,.....................3 Years,...................March 28th 2011

.......Attaboy Luuuuutherrrr!!!!..(Just had to do that)

Willie Hayes.......................Alabam A&M,......................4 Years,.....................December 19th 2011

Coaches who accepted less than 5 years and are now no longer with that team.

George Pfeifer......................Idaho,.............................3 Years,..................May 25th 2006...Fired After 2 in 08

Jerry Eaves..................North Carolina A&T,...............3 Years......................May 12th 2007

Awarded an extension in 2010, fired in 2012.

Jeff Capel........................Oklahoma,............................4 Years,...................April 11th 2006

.Extended in 09,..fired in 2011.

If I missed any basketball coaches who received 4 years or less add them here.

Rick

Edited December 19, 2012 by FirefightnRick

TheTastyGreek · December 14, 2012

50 schools replaced basketball coaches in 2012.

Two of them, Texas Tech and Connecticut, did so somewhat unexpectedly, and have one year interim coaches. Mike Davis at Texas Southern is also a last minute interim hire (August), and got a 4 year deal a few months later.

Some, like Rider, SMU, Wagner, and Brown, are private schools and aren't subject to FOIA requests, and do not have to release contract details unless they want to.

I've found 30 hires for which publicly announced or FOIA released information defined contract durations for 2012 new coaches.

Less than 5 year contracts: 7 schools

Air Force (3) - promoted assistant of a fired HC

Eastern Illinois (3) - hired a community college HC

Mississippi State (4) - contract over $1 million per year

North Carolina A&T (4) - hired a coach (Cy Alexander) who had been unemployed for 3 years

Southern Miss (4)

Tulsa (4)

Western Kentucky (4) - Harper got 4 years on top of the half season he spent as interim... So this one seems like a 4 and a half year deal.

5 years: 16 schools

Binghamton

Canisius

Central Michigan

Charleston

Colorado State

Illinois

Illinois State

Kansas State

LSU

Miami (Ohio)

North Texas

Ohio

Southern Illinois

UAB

UNC-Greensboro

Virginia Tech

6 years: 5 schools

FIU

Rhode Island

South Carolina

TCU

Winthrop

7 years: 2 schools

Duquesne

Nebraska

This is the market we were coach shopping in. For the coaches who got less than 5 year deals, most of them have asterisks, some being quite substantial. And for every school that landed a coach for under 5 years, there's another that had to give out a contract of 6 or 7 years.

KRAM1 · December 15, 2012

I guess the firefighting business must be really slow these days. Good thing that.

Dr. Seuss · December 16, 2012

50 schools replaced basketball coaches in 2012.
Two of them, Texas Tech and Connecticut, did so somewhat unexpectedly, and have one year interim coaches. Mike Davis at Texas Southern is also a last minute interim hire (August), and got a 4 year deal a few months later.
Some, like Rider, SMU, Wagner, and Brown, are private schools and aren't subject to FOIA requests, and do not have to release contract details unless they want to.
I've found 30 hires for which publicly announced or FOIA released information defined contract durations for 2012 new coaches.
Less than 5 year contracts: 7 schools
Air Force (3) - promoted assistant of a fired HC
Eastern Illinois (3) - hired a community college HC
Mississippi State (4) - contract over $1 million per year
North Carolina A&T (4) - hired a coach (Cy Alexander) who had been unemployed for 3 years
Southern Miss (4)
Tulsa (4)
Western Kentucky (4) - Harper got 4 years on top of the half season he spent as interim... So this one seems like a 4 and a half year deal.
5 years: 16 schools
Binghamton
Canisius
Central Michigan
Charleston
Colorado State
Illinois
Illinois State
Kansas State
LSU
Miami (Ohio)
North Texas
Ohio
Southern Illinois
UAB
UNC-Greensboro
Virginia Tech
6 years: 5 schools
FIU
Rhode Island
South Carolina
TCU
Winthrop
7 years: 2 schools
Duquesne
Nebraska
This is the market we were coach shopping in. For the coaches who got less than 5 year deals, most of them have asterisks, some being quite substantial. And for every school that landed a coach for under 5 years, there's another that had to give out a contract of 6 or 7 years.

Did you have this on an excel file because I would like to see how many of the head coaches w/o any hc experience received 5 year deals

Dr. Seuss · December 16, 2012

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Dr. Seuss" data-cid="695865" data-time="1355671390">Did you have this on an excel file because I would like to see how many of the head coaches w/o any hc experience received 5 year deals</blockquote>

i figured it out the easy one.. 4/7 head coaches who signed a 4 year deal did not have 1 full year of head coaching experience.. and 5/7 had less than 1 year of head coaching experience at the D-1 level

Back to my argument about the length of Benfords deal, I think 5 years is quite a long time, statically speaking...

Anywas though, it really doesnt matter length. Because if we fire him and he accepts another job, we only pay him the difference.. I dont really know the salary for fired HC's that go back to assistants but I wouldnt image it being less than 200k. worst case we would be on the hook for 150k

Edited December 16, 2012 by Dr. Seuss

FirefightnRick · December 16, 2012

Dr. Suess..... I think 5 years is quite a long time, statically speaking...

I think your concern is valid.

BTW, of the 32 coaches on my list above, who were hired since 2006 and accepted less than a 5 year contract, 10 of them had prior Head Coaching experience at the D 1 level.

Of the three who did not:.........Corliss Williamson at Central Arkansas, played 12 years in the NBA.

................................................Danny Manning at Tulsa, played 15 years in the NBA and assisted under Bill Self at Kansas for 5 years.

................................................Ray Harper at Western Kentucky, had never been a head coach in D 1 before, but had

................................................been one in D 2, and was D 2 "Head Coach of the Year".... 7 times.

Rick

Edited December 16, 2012 by FirefightnRick

MeanMag · December 16, 2012

Can we stop with the length of the contract talk? I think we can agree If he doesn't deserve 5 years, find a new guy to offer the job to.

At this point a one year contract was a mistake.

FirefightnRick · December 16, 2012

Can we stop with the length of the contract talk? I think we can agree If he doesn't deserve 5 years, find a new guy to offer the job to.

At this point a one year contract was a mistake.</blockquote>

MM,

I'm simply pointing out that less than 5 year deals are not that uncommon. It's been a slow winter so far and this has been a running discussion between several of us since the Shanice Stephens debacle.

Rick

MeanMag · December 17, 2012

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="MeanMag" data-cid="695923" data-time="1355688316">
Can we stop with the length of the contract talk? I think we can agree If he doesn't deserve 5 years, find a new guy to offer the job to. 
 
At this point a one year contract was a mistake.</blockquote>
MM,
I'm simply pointing out that less than 5 year deals are not that uncommon. It's been a slow winter so far and this has been a running discussion between several of us since the Shanice Stephens debacle.
Rick

Yes, I understand. My point is, if there are concerns about coaching ability, or the way you are trying to mitigate risk in a contract is by cutting years, then there should have been another candidate chosen. I don't question the mechanics of the contract we gave. That contract is / was where we are/were in our bball programs development. I think that contract was written for the person we wanted, which might/might not be what we got.

At the very least, no one can say that we aren't committed to our coaches. We give them every opportunity to succeed.

Stan R · December 17, 2012

Has any college basketball coach at the D1A level EVER in the history of EVER been fired in less than one year on the job. Do we want to make that kind of history??

Cerebus · December 17, 2012

Has any college basketball coach at the D1A level EVER in the history of EVER been fired in less than one year on the job. Do we want to make that kind of history??

I don't know if it's time to fire someone yet, but this is a terrible argument.

Rejoinder:

Has any college basketball team at the D1A level EVER in the history of EVER started off as bad as we did and ended up in the Sweet 16? Do we want to make the kind of history??

FirefightnRick · December 18, 2012

Has any college basketball coach at the D1A level EVER in the history of EVER been fired in less than one year on the job. Do we want to make that kind of history??</blockquote>

Possibly, but I couldn't say which.

But would you believe Billy Gillispie NEVER signed a contract with Kentucky? He only signed a "Memorandum of Understanding", and only coached for twenty three months between 2007-2009 before getting axed.. Kentucky claims he was fired for refusing to sign his original 7 year contract. BCG sued and Kentucky settled out of court for just less than $3 Million.

He then got a 5 year contract in 2011 at Texas Tech and barely made it 16 months before resigning.

Rick

Army of Dad · December 18, 2012

So your argument is that 32 schools signed coaches to less than 4 years? How many signed them for more than 5 years?

There are over 340 schools in Division 1 men's basketball. Less than 10% isn't really a convincing argument.

No, it's more like our shooting percentage...

Harry · December 19, 2012

No, it's more like our shooting percentage...

LOL!

FirefightnRick · December 19, 2012

So your argument is that 32 schools signed coaches to less than 4 years? How many signed them for more than 5 years?

There are over 340 schools in Division 1 men's basketball. Less than 10% isn't really a convincing argument.

First, there are 344 D1 programs to be exact.

Second, it's 14% of coaches hired since '08 with 4 years or less contracts who are still there under that same contract.....THAT WE KNOW OF?????

.......And 17% of coaches hired since '06 with 4 years or less contracts....again...THAT WE KNOW OF??????

.......And TTG pointed out it's 24% of those hired in 2012 with 4 years or less contracts.....yet again....THAT WE KNOW OF?????

Third...I've explained my argument clearly in the first post of this thread.

Rick

Edited December 19, 2012 by FirefightnRick