An Elementary School?

[MeanGreenTexan]

This seems like the appropriate thread to discuss gun specs.

[FirefightnRick]

A rifle such as an M1 used a Clip. The rounds were bunched together on the Clip to feed the rounds into the rifle and they called it a Clip.

A Magazine is a spring loaded enclosed mechanism that feeds the weapon its rounds. Just like the Sig and Glock this maggot used to slaughter innocent people.

People annoy me when they say clip too. I had a range instructor who used to correct people that have seen to many movies and television.

Either way I wish he would have survived and then been locked in a room with these kid's parents.

The only two guns I know of that used a clip to load its ammunition was the 1917 .45 revolver and the M-1 Garand.

The Revolver used moon clips to hold three rounds each, the Garand holds five. This was a disadvantage for the Garand in close quarters combat.(Headgrow fighting in France) because once the clip released its final round the gun ejected it along with the spent case and the clip would make a loud "Ting" sound, notifying the enemy within earshot you were out of ammo and needed to reload.

Best idea I have heard so far as to addressing the safety for schools issue is that there are reportedly 100-200k retired peace officers nation wide riding out their pensions who may be willing for an affordable price to a school district go back part time and act as an on-grounds security officer. Many schools already have this system in place. I'm all for this.

Rick

[GreenBat]

Clip or Magazine. Why does anyone, with exception of the military and the law enforment, need something that holds 100 rounds of ammunition?

[Coffee and TV]

Best idea I have heard so far as to addressing the safety for schools issue is that there are reportedly 100-200k retired peace officers nation wide riding out their pensions who may be willing for an affordable price to a school district go back part time and act as an on-grounds security officer. Many schools already have this system in place. I'm all for this.

I'm amazed that Rick actually put forth a decent idea. I dunno how I feel about it, but it's not crazy for once.

[MeanGreenTexan]

...

Best idea I have heard so far as to addressing the safety for schools issue is that there are reportedly 100-200k retired peace officers nation wide riding out their pensions who may be willing for an affordable price to a school district go back part time and act as an on-grounds security officer. Many schools already have this system in place. I'm all for this.

Rick

This is a much better idea than arming teachers in classrooms.

However, look for taxes to increase as we'll have to pay for these officers. Still on board?

[FirefightnRick]

This is a much better idea than arming teachers in classrooms.

However, look for taxes to increase as we'll have to pay for these officers. Still on board?

I'd rather my taxes go up to protect children than pay for lazy people to sit around and do nothing but have them only to dump them on the rest off us to raise.

Rick

[SilverEagle]

You know, Rick's idea is a very good one.

But as I was reading this thread, I thought back to when I was finishing college (school of education) and us teaching candidates were approached to consider joining a program called "The North Dallas Teacher's project" . The professor making the presentation was very honest with everyone. He said that this would involve being in schools that had some of THE most unmotivated students, and all the schools in question had security cameras and police on campus. He also said that any white teachers better get ready to be regularly called "white MF'r". This was about 1974.

I remember thinking "good god, what has our society come to that some of our schools (even inner-city poor schools) in Texas need security cameras and police/security guards on campus".

And now it's not just for the inner-city schools.

[Mean Green Matt]

This is a much better idea than arming teachers in classrooms.

However, look for taxes to increase as we'll have to pay for these officers. Still on board?

For what it's worth, under the arming teachers plan, all of them would receive signifiant training, and only select administrators would know they're armed. It would not require teachers to carry.

[BeanCounterGrad'03]

I'd rather my taxes go up to protect children than pay for lazy people to sit around and do nothing but have them only to dump them on the rest off us to raise.

Rick

There's the Rick I've come to know and love.

[Coffee and TV]

BTW, Columbine had an armed guard on campus in 1999 too.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/DEPUTIES_TEXT.htm

[Monkeypox]

For what it's worth, under the arming teachers plan, all of them would receive signifiant training, and only select administrators would know they're armed. It would not require teachers to carry.

Still sounds like a waste of time and money to train teachers at something you already have trained people available for. Also, as I pointed out before, I'm too concerned about the ability of teachers to actually TEACH. I'd rather they receive the equivalent significant training hours spent on honing their craft.

[Monkeypox]

BTW, Columbine had an armed guard on campus in 1999 too.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/DEPUTIES_TEXT.htm

And the perpetrators at Columbine also used bombs.

[Coffee and TV]

And the perpetrators at Columbine also used bombs.

LOL, if you want to call them that. They were more like redneck firecrackers.

Point being, having a guard didn't deter them.

[Monkeypox]

LOL, if you want to call them that. They were more like redneck firecrackers.

Point being, having a guard didn't deter them.

Yeah, but that guard saved lives. I thought that was the big deal in all this. You can't deter someone willing to die.

12 people died in Columbine. Many more would've died if not for the actions of the armed guard.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Monkeypox

[Coffee and TV]

Yeah, but that guard saved lives. I thought that was the big deal in all this. You can't deter someone willing to die.

12 people died in Columbine. Many more would've died if not for the actions of the armed guard.

No. I'm afraid he didn't, really. The poor execution (for lack of a better term) by the shooters what was kept their body count down.

[UNTnewbie]

Clip or Magazine. Why does anyone, with exception of the military and the law enforment, need something that holds 100 rounds of ammunition?

Obviously you've never seen me squirrel hunting

[Monkeypox]

No. I'm afraid he didn't, really. The poor execution (for lack of a better term) by the shooters what was kept their body count down.

No, he did, actually. He drew attention and fire from Harris, causing Harris' gun to jam and helped conceal, care for, and instruct wounded students.

Anybody with military/police/first responder experience can tell you the value in these things.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Monkeypox

[Coffee and TV]

No, he did, actually. He drew attention and fire from Harris, causing Harris' gun to jam and helped conceal, care for, and instruct wounded students.

Anybody with military/police/first responder experience can tell you the value in these things.

He momentarily distracted Eric Harris, but the shooting was over by the time any deputy even made it into the school. Not to say he did a bad job or anything, that was just the dynamics of the situation. He might have been able to take 1 or both of them down sooner had he been in the cafeteria, but that was just bad luck on his part. This was probably the best book I've read in the last year if you're interested in Columbine, I'd definitely recommend it.

http://amzn.com/0446546925

Edited December 21, 2012 by Coffee and TV

[GreenBat]

The security guard at at Columbine was eating lunch. He traded fire with one of the shooters, but did not save a life. He was less than 1-minute away, the NRA president said today, "Would you rather have you 911 call bring a good guy with a gun from a mile away ... or a minute away?

[GreenBat]

Armed Police stations are not even safe. I do not know the solution to the problem, but I can't believe putting more guns out there is it. I realize that the only person that died in the latest shooting is the suspect, but luck is the only thing that saved the officer who was shot in the hand.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/11/suspect-dead-officer-wounded-in-shooting-at-michigan-police-station/

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/01/14/police-officer-shot-in-lakewood-condition-unknown/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/08/AR2006050800968.html

[GreenBat]

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2012/12/jeffrey-toobin-second-amendment.html

[Monkeypox]

He momentarily distracted Eric Harris, but the shooting was over by the time any deputy even made it into the school. Not to say he did a bad job or anything, that was just the dynamics of the situation. He might have been able to take 1 or both of them down sooner had he been in the cafeteria, but that was just bad luck on his part. This was probably the best book I've read in the last year if you're interested in Columbine, I'd definitely recommend it.

http://amzn.com/0446546925

Moments mean lives, and the shooting wasn't over with when he distracted and drew fire from Harris. I've got the book, but I also have a family with extensive experience in military and police work, and also dealt with two individual shootings and a drive by at my own high school before transferring out.

And one thing that the book demonstrates is that any desire to "deter" people from these acts is a fool's errand. Response options are the best you'll do.

[Monkeypox]

Worst school massacre in US history didn't have a single shot fired. I think there need to be tighter regulations on guns, but people calling for a lot of bans and spreading a lot of misinformation about what's legal and available in the first place. And once again, both sides are having emotionally-driven responses to a complex issue.

Repubs - nobody's taking away your ability to be safe or fight some kind of future government tyranny. They can't and won't. Besides, you ALL know that you've got a cousin in East Texas who can make a machine gun out of bike parts, but won't take the time to fix the hole in the floor of the bathroom in his trailer (I know I do).

Dems - You won't stop people going crazy and murdering people. You could take away ALL the guns in the world (actually you couldn't, and for more amendments than just the 2nd), and massacres like this will still happen, and with the kind of increasing frequency they already are. Anybody with a plan and a willingness to die can kill any number of people.

[UNT90]

Kudos the the NRA for being the adult in the situation and holding their comments until after a majority of the funerals were conducted.

Too bad some felt the need to try to make political hay out of this tragedy by running up to Newtown and, in an ever so clever way, calling for gun control. Completely disgusting.

This debate happens after every single one of these shootings, and what people finally come to realize is that if a person really wants to do this, there is little that can be done to stop him, unless someone else who is armed is able to stop the shooter before he takes lives. Even that is a crap shoot, because the shooter will have the upper hand with his preparation and the element of surprise.

I heard an interesting fact about mass shootings. There has been something like 48 since 1948 (numbers may be a little off here), with 26 coming since 2006. Can anyone figure out what happened in 2006???

That was basically the explosion of social media. Everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame/infamy. The mentally disturbed will take it any way they can get it. What would curtail these instances is if the news media STOPPED TREATING THE MURDERS LIKE CELEBRITIES!!! Don't tell us their name. This HAS to come from the media. There is no way the police can or should withhold the suspect's name. The media can. They do it all the time with victims of sexual abuse. Also, call them what they are. Not "suspect" but "mass murderer" every time in place of using their name.

Right now, these kids, in their warped sense of self-awareness, see being a mass murderer as something that will make their life meaningful and historic. Thanks to the media, the historic part is absolutley correct.

How many of you can name the UT Rifleman, the Columbine mass murderers, the Wedgewood church mass murderer???

Now, how many of you can name one of their victims?

That's an embarassing commentary on our culture.

Edited December 22, 2012 by UNT90

[HoustonEagle]

Still sounds like a waste of time and money to train teachers at something you already have trained people available for. Also, as I pointed out before, I'm too concerned about the ability of teachers to actually TEACH. I'd rather they receive the equivalent significant training hours spent on honing their craft.

I am pretty sure they would appreciate parents spending a few hours honing their craft, but that is for another thread. Oh wait, what is the title of this thread again?

Edited December 22, 2012 by HoustonEagle