Answers to questions about the Big East

Harry · December 11, 2012

What's to stop the Atlantic 10 for trying to pull the Big East's non-football-playing members to its league? Isn't that better than just waiting around to see if the Big East's non-football-playing members break away and then try to poach the Atlantic 10's best programs?

Yes, that's better. And I suspect such inquiries will be made on some level, if they haven't already. But my guess is that the Big East's non-football-playing members would prefer to either stay put or figure out a way to start their own league. I'd be surprised if they simply merged into the A-10 to create a 21-team league. But that shouldn't stop the A-10 from asking. Absolutely, it's a question worth asking. And it's a possibility worth following.

And what about fans of Houston, SMU, Memphis and UCF? They waited so long to become a part of a power conference, and now this power conference is diminished and on the verge of collapsing before they even arrive. What should those fans do?

Cross their fingers.

Hope.

Maybe even pray.

Because a split would be devastating for them.

Read more: http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21363188/here-are-some-answers-to-your-big-east-questions

emmitt01 · December 11, 2012

And what about fans of UNT, FIU, FAU and La Tech? What should they do?

Laugh

Point

Laugh some more.

Cougar King · December 12, 2012

And what about fans of UNT, FIU, FAU and La Tech? What should they do?

Laugh

Point

Laugh some more.

Um. you do realize that Houston, UCF, SMU and Memphis are all still members of C-USA and in turn the potential to revoke the memberships of UNT, FIU and La Tech among others is not out of the question in the realm of possibilities?

Edited December 12, 2012 by Cougar King

UNT90 · December 12, 2012

Um. you do realize that Houston, UCF, SMU and Memphis are all still members of C-USA and in turn the potential to revoke the memberships of UNT, FIU and La Tech among others is not out of the question in the realm of possibilities?

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Priceless.

Enjoy your one game AT Rutgers, which you will be watching from your couch wearing your brand new Longhorn shirt.

Rudy · December 12, 2012

If you really think CUSa cares what you think, much less what your school who is leaving thinks, look at how the officiating has been in our games since we announced our leaving.

TheColonyEagle · December 12, 2012

Um. you do realize that Houston, UCF, SMU and Memphis are all still members of C-USA and in turn the potential to revoke the memberships of UNT, FIU and La Tech among others is not out of the question in the realm of possibilities?

Wow

emmitt01 · December 12, 2012

Um. you do realize that Houston, UCF, SMU and Memphis are all still members of C-USA and in turn the potential to revoke the memberships of UNT, FIU and La Tech among others is not out of the question in the realm of possibilities?

So this is what an active stroke while typing looks like. Hmm

UNTexas · December 12, 2012

Um. you do realize that Houston, UCF, SMU and Memphis are all still members of C-USA and in turn the potential to revoke the memberships of UNT, FIU and La Tech among others is not out of the question in the realm of possibilities?

You do realize you are full of poo, right? Now get back to your homework. Mom, meatloaf.

GL2Greatness · December 12, 2012

more than likely what will happen if the basketball schools leave is the remaining football members of the Big East will support ECU and Tulane filing a lawsuit to leave the CUSA for 2013 and then the combination of UH, SMU, UCF and Memphis with ECU and Tulane will be 6 conference members that have played together for the required period of time to meet all NCAA participation requirements for championships and bowl games

that would leave with CUSA barely having the membership (6 teams) having played together for the required period of time to also meet NCAA requirements for football and basketball bowl game and championship participation UAB, USM, Marshall, Rice, UTEP, Tulsa

if the CUSA wanted to get ugly about it then the Big East teams could try and convince the MWC to go ahead and move on UTEP, Tulsa, or Rice or all three and leave the CUSA without the needed teams having participated for the required time for bowl and playoff participation

if the MWC decided not to move then the Big East could try and make a move for Tulane, ECU along with Rice, UTEP, and Tulsa all moving next year and leave CUSA without the required number of schools and even if they end up and cannot win in the courts for immediate participation in the Big East for any of the needed schools by taking Rice, UTEP, and Tulsa even in 2014 that would leave the CUSA in the position of not being able to participate in bowls or playoffs for at least a year maybe two which would probably drive some other members to look elsewhere as well

UH, SMU, Memphis, and UCF are not coming back to the CUSA and at the worst they will go a year without bowl and championship participation and then force the same or worse on CUSA or they will work some type of deal with the MWC to be "members" until they have all played together long enough to break off on their own with the required number of teams and time together to participate in championships and bowls.....and if they have to go that route you can be assured they will take enough teams with them into that "alliance" from the CUSA to make CUSA be the ones ending up not meeting participation requirements for two years

I believe the requirement is 6 teams having played together for at least the last two years so SMU, UH, UCF and Memphis is 4 and with Tulane and ECU that is 6 (if they can all move together at the same time

with those 6 UCONN, Temple, and Cincy could stay or go either way same with Boise and SDSU

that would leave the CUSA with UAB, USM, Marshall, Rice, UTEP, Tulsa that have been together for two years

if CUSA says that ECU and Tulane can't go next year with SMU, UCF, Memphis and SMU then look for UCF, Memphis, SMU and UH and most likely SDSU and Boise to ask MWC to allow those 6 along with Rice, UTEP, and Tulsa to be members for two years and ECU and Tulane for one year (and any of UCONN, Temple, and Cincy for two years) before they break away again and form a new conference meeting the requirements.....that would leave CUSA not meeting the requirements for at least a year if not two

the teams associating with the MWC could offer them some or all of the NCAA basketball and Olympic sports credits for those two years to keep upon disassociation as an incentive and maybe even some bowl game proceeds

outoftown · December 12, 2012

more than likely what will happen if the basketball schools leave is the remaining football members of the Big East will support ECU and Tulane filing a lawsuit to leave the CUSA for 2013 and then the combination of UH, SMU, UCF and Memphis with ECU and Tulane will be 6 conference members that have played together for the required period of time to meet all NCAA participation requirements for championships and bowl games

that would leave with CUSA barely having the membership (6 teams) having played together for the required period of time to also meet NCAA requirements for football and basketball bowl game and championship participation UAB, USM, Marshall, Rice, UTEP, Tulsa

if the CUSA wanted to get ugly about it then the Big East teams could try and convince the MWC to go ahead and move on UTEP, Tulsa, or Rice or all three and leave the CUSA without the needed teams having participated for the required time for bowl and playoff participation

if the MWC decided not to move then the Big East could try and make a move for Tulane, ECU along with Rice, UTEP, and Tulsa all moving next year and leave CUSA without the required number of schools and even if they end up and cannot win in the courts for immediate participation in the Big East for any of the needed schools by taking Rice, UTEP, and Tulsa even in 2014 that would leave the CUSA in the position of not being able to participate in bowls or playoffs for at least a year maybe two which would probably drive some other members to look elsewhere as well

UH, SMU, Memphis, and UCF are not coming back to the CUSA and at the worst they will go a year without bowl and championship participation and then force the same or worse on CUSA or they will work some type of deal with the MWC to be "members" until they have all played together long enough to break off on their own with the required number of teams and time together to participate in championships and bowls.....and if they have to go that route you can be assured they will take enough teams with them into that "alliance" from the CUSA to make CUSA be the ones ending up not meeting participation requirements for two years

I believe the requirement is 6 teams having played together for at least the last two years so SMU, UH, UCF and Memphis is 4 and with Tulane and ECU that is 6 (if they can all move together at the same time

with those 6 UCONN, Temple, and Cincy could stay or go either way same with Boise and SDSU

that would leave the CUSA with UAB, USM, Marshall, Rice, UTEP, Tulsa that have been together for two years

if CUSA says that ECU and Tulane can't go next year with SMU, UCF, Memphis and SMU then look for UCF, Memphis, SMU and UH and most likely SDSU and Boise to ask MWC to allow those 6 along with Rice, UTEP, and Tulsa to be members for two years and ECU and Tulane for one year (and any of UCONN, Temple, and Cincy for two years) before they break away again and form a new conference meeting the requirements.....that would leave CUSA not meeting the requirements for at least a year if not two

the teams associating with the MWC could offer them some or all of the NCAA basketball and Olympic sports credits for those two years to keep upon disassociation as an incentive and maybe even some bowl game proceeds

What I take from this is that the evil empire will not be out of ideas...

yet I do say I see ECU and Tulane having a hard time moving this year. This is not just about sueing. It is also about scheduling and that could become very difficult in the time frames that are starting to come up.

The big east FBS members would have to move very quickly on a lot of issues, but basically can't take the first step until the basketball schools - who are in no rush whatsoever- decide. I think timing will be crucial. let us say the basketball schools let BBall season play out before making a move. then it is almost april and C-USAs case for sueing Tulane and ECU for the lost home games will be at least as good as vice versa.

If the BBall schools decided to break off this month though (say due to bad tv-deal coming out), before C-USA even publishes it's schedule, then there is plenty of time for those BE FBS schools to come up with solutions... and there is a great many "solutions" that NT will not like, like deciding to poach more schools (USM, Tulsa, Marshal, UTEP, basically leaving UAB and Rice behind or even inviting those 2 too), which would give none of the Old-CUSA members a reason to put up a fight. It would just leave the new members out in the cold.

Anothr factor may be whether boise and SD just decide they saw enough and move back to the MWC, no matter what the BB schools will do, things might move quickly anyway. Also I am not sure what the interest of the MWC is taking teams from old CUSA. Not as sure as some people, that SMU and Houston are gonna have any leverage that will make the MWC think they need to have them come along at the price of instability (cause let us face it, if you were MWC would you trust that they are not gonna try to get out as quickly as possible again. If they stay for 2 years, what have you gained?)

In short almost whatever happens, I see good times for lawyers coming on this issue

Edited December 12, 2012 by outoftown

Arkstfan · December 12, 2012

I would be surprised if the A-21 came into being even though it is simpler logistically.

I think the 7 sisters are leaving one way or another (dissolve BE, leave BE either for A-21 or form new league).

That will leave Temple, UConn, Cincy, USF, UCF, ECU, Memphis, SMU, Tulane, Houston to try to pick up the pieces and move on while trying to keep Boise and SDSU on board.

Cerebus · December 12, 2012

That will leave Temple, UConn, Cincy, USF, UCF, ECU, Memphis, SMU, Tulane, Houston to try to pick up the pieces and move on while trying to keep Boise and SDSU on board.

Without an autobid? I don't see that happening.

If I were Temple I would try to negotiate with the Catholic BB schools and CUSA and tell them I will vote to disband/reform the Big East if BB and Olympic sports gets to stay in the "new" new big east, and move fb over to CUSA.

Cerebus · December 12, 2012

<Thinly Veiled Anti NT Athletics Ranting>

The BE leftovers can't just form a new league because the NCAA isn't going to give any new conference an autobid. They will also lose the revenue stream from the now shredded TV and MSG deals. Whoever they can cobble together is going be able to command a TV package in the current CUSA deal ball park.

So, no guaranteed access to the tourney and no tv money windfall? That's the dream huh? Wrong. They will all fight and scrape and get back into whatever existing conference they can.

Arkstfan · December 12, 2012

They can get autobids by having six members that have competed together in basketball for five years.

1. UCF

2. ECU

3. Memphis

4. Houston

5. SMU

6. Tulane

The critical element is that Tulane and ECU have to leave July 1, 2013 to join them.

Mean Green 93-98 · December 12, 2012

That will leave Temple, UConn, Cincy, USF, UCF, ECU, Memphis, SMU, Tulane, Houston to try to pick up the pieces and move on while trying to keep Boise and SDSU on board.

With or without Boise and SDSU, those ten teams would make a pretty solid conference. And they would probably pretty easily pluck Tulsa, Southern Miss, and Marshall to join them. Yes, it would pretty much be an old C-USA reunion (I could see Temple jumping back to the MAC), but it wouldn't be bad at all. For them, that is . . . it would be very bad for us.

Cerebus · December 12, 2012

They can get autobids by having six members that have competed together in basketball for five years.
1. UCF
2. ECU
3. Memphis
4. Houston
5. SMU
6. Tulane

The critical element is that Tulane and ECU have to leave July 1, 2013 to join them.

My understanding of the situation, tell me if I am wrong.

If the Catholic BB Schools Take the BE Name:

Autobid goes with them. A new autobid will not be created to cover them.

If the Catholic BB Schools Leave the BE Name:

If this happen before the deadline, the BE drops below the required number and loses the autobid. Why would the departing schools wait long enough grant someone else a spot they could take.

Also would love if you could clarify this:

Reports today say that because of the way the BE bylaws are written, Temple DOES NOT have the deciding vote. The CBB schools have the votes right now, are only waiting for the commissioner to finalize a TV deal before making their decision.

Any way you slice it, why would the departed leave an autobid to the left behind? The goodness of their hearts? Christian charity? I think they purposefully orchestrate their move so those schools don't have an autobid, better for their league to try and snatch the spot.

Cerebus · December 12, 2012

With or without Boise and SDSU, those ten teams would make a pretty solid conference. And they would probably pretty easily pluck Tulsa, Southern Miss, and Marshall to join them. Yes, it would pretty much be an old C-USA reunion (I could see Temple jumping back to the MAC), but it wouldn't be bad at all. For them, that is . . . it would be very bad for us.

Like I said, I don't see that happening because they won't have an autobid, and all the TV and MSG deals would cancel at that point.

Even if they did pull some CUSA teams, so what, CUSA reloads with some SBC teams and we keep our current payouts.

Mean Green 93-98 · December 12, 2012

Like I said, I don't see that happening because they won't have an autobid, and all the TV and MSG deals would cancel at that point.

True, but a conference carrying those teams would establish an auto-bid and a decent TV contract in little time.

Even if they did pull some CUSA teams, so what, CUSA reloads with some SBC teams and we keep our current payouts.

*Sigh* I guess I'm the only one here less than thrilled that the C-USA could turn out to have less interesting competition than the Sun Belt?

Arkstfan · December 12, 2012

Here is the issue of name. Harry and I discussed this the other day.

The name and logo are assets of the conference. If the conference dissolves the name and logos are assets to dispose of just like office furniture. If the league were to vote to dissolve one of two things happens to the name. 1) It goes up for sale at an auction to get maximum value. 2) one coalition or another of the league makes an offer to the other for them to release their ownership interest, essentially buying out their rights to the name.

The name really doesn't matter much to the NCAA. You either meet the definition of an autobid league or you don't, it only matters if you are availing yourself of the grace period. The BCS deal for 2014 and beyond I don't believe has been reduced to a final agreement yet so that just needs to have a name change based on whomever is a conference.

If I were laying money down. Here is my guess although I'd not put down more than $20.

I don't think the A-21 plan will cut it.

I think the more likely outcome would be that seven sisters will talk to UConn first and foremost but may also approach Cincinnati and possibly Temple.

They will present the options.

Option 1. The seven are leaving and under NCAA rules the league will have lost so many members that NCAA units devolve to the school earning the units. You guys get the Big East name but you lose the NCAA money you didn't earn yourself. The MSG contract is now voidable and will almost certainly be canceled and handed over to our new league or the A-10, if the ACC doesn't beat us to it.

Option 2. We approach the schools that still owe buyouts and offer to waive the buyouts if they will assign their rights to the NCAA units to us. We then vote to dissolve the league (this presumes that Temple does not yet have a vote).

Option 3. Assuming Temple does have a vote and can block dissolving, then you offer the following deal, and I bet they start with UConn. We again offer to release the others from the buyout in return for their units. The Big East is dissolved with the seven sisters buying the name. UConn and who knows maybe Temple and Cincy are given full membership in the "new" Big East, a non-football conference. Those three then look to get a new league up and running in football with the other schools but will be football only members.

Option 4. The seven sisters, Temple, USF, UConn, Cincy reach a deal. They do nothing with the league other than agreeing to rescind the all-sport invites to Houston, SMU, Tulane, UCF, Memphis and pay whatever damages.

My guess is they go with a deal that dissolves the Big East prior to June 30, 2013 and one or more Big East football member becomes a member of the new Big East.

SMU, Houston, Tulane, Memphis, ECU, UCF form a new conference that will likely include USF and might pick up another one to three CUSA schools and maybe even UMass with one or more football only members out of the new Big East.

It's CUSA 2.0 but it leaves you with essentially the league that Boise and SDSU said they were joining.

Arkstfan · December 12, 2012

Like I said, I don't see that happening because they won't have an autobid, and all the TV and MSG deals would cancel at that point.

Even if they did pull some CUSA teams, so what, CUSA reloads with some SBC teams and we keep our current payouts.

The thing is, the CUSA TV deals are expressed as gross revenue (rights fee plus production costs) instead of as net (rights fee) and there is no assurance that any of those don't get renegotiated especially if CUSA loses more. Remember UTSA is transition year 2 when they enter, ODU transition year 1, with Charlotte yet to come. CUSA doesn't go up to full strength in football until 16.

The other element is who (if anyone) does CUSA yet lose. MWC is pinned down with two regional choices that don't fit their model. If they can't lure Boise and SDSU back, then they have to come into the Central time zone in order to pry UTEP loose.

If the Big East thing melts, the new wreckage league may take as many as three CUSA schools if I'm counting noses correctly.

Essentially what happens is that just as the WAC for all intents became the Big West it once disdained, CUSA becomes the Sun Belt with different uniform patches. And the truly sad thing could well be that it is all done in response to what is merely a bubble in TV rights fees that may soon burst.

Cerebus · December 12, 2012

True, but a conference carrying those teams would establish an auto-bid and a decent TV contract in little time.

No. NCAA is not creating new autobids for a new league.

If by decent you mean near CUSA levels, then that is probably right.

What is the draw there?

*Sigh* I guess I'm the only one here less than thrilled that the C-USA could turn out to have less interesting competition than the Sun Belt?

We still get the money and we have a bunch of road trips that we can travel to and with programs that have alumns in DFW. That is the plan to grow our program.

Cerebus · December 12, 2012

My guess is they go with a deal that dissolves the Big East prior to June 30, 2013 and one or more Big East football member becomes a member of the new Big East.

SMU, Houston, Tulane, Memphis, ECU, UCF form a new conference that will likely include USF and might pick up another one to three CUSA schools and maybe even UMass with one or more football only members out of the new Big East.

If it happens in that time frame, then the schools left behind no longer have an autobid, correct? Why is that appealing to anyone? Do you believe they could form a conference that would bring in SIGNIFICANTLY more money than the CUSA deal?

BTW: I think ASU is in CUSA within the next five years.

Daddy Dumpsalot · December 12, 2012

Um. you do realize that Houston, UCF, SMU and Memphis are all still members of C-USA and in turn the potential to revoke the memberships of UNT, FIU and La Tech among others is not out of the question in the realm of possibilities?

I for one hope that those 3 schools stay in the CUSA because I would love to play them each year.

Cerebus · December 12, 2012

And the truly sad thing could well be that it is all done in response to what is merely a bubble in TV rights fees that may soon burst.

Don't think it's going to burst. LIVE sports is different than any other content. It may be different providers delivering it to new devices, but people still want to watch it live. Since they are watching it live, they don't have the option to skip commercials or pirate it.

If people no longer begin to care about the live nature of the event, then all bets are off, but that live nature is what makes sports different.

foutsrouts · December 12, 2012

All I get out of this thread is that we should try our best to get into the MWC ASAP. It's all about reputation and who you hang out with, and we've failed at that endeavor for decades. Get in a relatively stable conference full of flagship universities and we've reached our nirvana. At least for now.