Big East deal could be worth as little as $60 million per year

[Harry]

If the Big East loses one or two higher profile schools the basketball schools will dissolve and reform. From what I understand, it is harder to start a new football conference so yes rejoining CUSA is plausible. You should hope and pray the Big 10 doesn't take UConn or ACC take Cincy etc... No one here wishes anything bad for Houston. There is no more auto bid so we are in the same boat. Bowing up against us is silly.

Post from an SMU Fan regarding the impact of dissolution from the Big East basketball schools..

Re: Big East Catholic BB Schools Discuss Options

by SMU_Alumni11 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:47 pm

I say make a new conference, entice BYU to join let them keep their tv. Get the rest of big east, the new big east teams. Find some smaller divisions that have good basketball schools to add. We just need to make sure we have the best non AQ conference. It's getting scary. Can you imagine if we have to go back to cusa??? That would officially kill us and any hope of a good coach.

#FireJuneJones

[CurveItAround]

Especially nice touch at the end of the post, #firejunejones. He has only taken them to 4 straight bowls after a decade of suck.

[Harry]

I know -- but my point was that if the basketball schools break away, there is a legit chance that SMU Houston etc have to reconsider C-USA...they won't like it but it's quite possible.

[CurveItAround]

It will be interesting to see what happens in all of this. It almost feels like MWC and CUSA will have to hold off on making any moves until the nBE gets settled. Kind of wish this would have happened before MTSU and FAU were announced, just to have more options.

Edited December 11, 2012 by CurveItAround

[NT1978]

Good lord, we're NOT coming back to C-USA. EVER. That was clear when they added UNT and UTSA.

I hear there is an opening in the Sunbelt.

[greenjoe]

Where is CougarKing and why won't he, or she, answer my question ? He/she clearly spends a lot of time on GOMEANGREEN.COM so I'm sure he/she has read my post.

CourgarKing oh CougarKing. Please respond to my questioning. Your answers here would be real nice. Or maybe you really went to Rice.

[10Eagle10]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8736148/big-east-unveils-first-2-division-football-schedule

how ya like that home schedule kitty cat?? it's no better than any in the recent past. what a way to open the new stadium!

outside of Boise, SMU's is pretty bad too. We're going to have a much more attractive home schedule me-thinks. At least the "bad" teams coming to Apogee won't be thousands of miles away

[Harry]

http://espn.go.com/c...otball-schedule

how ya like that home schedule kitty cat?? it's no better than any in the recent past. what a way to open the new stadium!

outside of Boise, SMU's is pretty bad too. We're going to have a much more attractive home schedule me-thinks. At least the "bad" teams coming to Apogee won't be thousands of miles away

Good post 10 --

SMU:

Home: Boise State, UCF, UConn, Temple. Away: Houston, Memphis, San Diego State, USF

Houston

Home: Memphis, San Diego State, SMU USF. Away: Boise State, UCF, Rutgers, Temple

Can't wait to see what the C-USA schedule for North Texas will be.

[Harry]

Interesting note: Cincinnati and SMU both play at San Diego State and USF, taking trips to both sides of the country. USF and UCF do not have to take a trip out West, as neither plays at Boise State or San Diego State.

[10Eagle10]

another interesting article:

http://www.sbnation.com/2012/12/11/3755044/2013-big-east-football-schedule

SMU's trip down 45 really cuts their travel, that plus Memphis. looking forward to comparing our mileage and making some roadtrips in '13

[UNTX]

I know -- but my point was that if the basketball schools break away, there is a legit chance that SMU Houston etc have to reconsider C-USA...they won't like it but it's quite possible.

But why wouldn't SMU and UH just join the MWC along with potential returnees Boise and SDSU, rather than rejoin CUSA with us? Then the MWC could try to lure BYU back and take one other to get to 16 (maybe UTEP?).

That is far more likely post any Big East implosion

than a return to CUSA. Unfortunately CUSA has no cards to play in this other than to pick off more SBC schools as replacements as needed.

[Harry]

But why wouldn't SMU and UH just join the MWC along with potential returnees Boise and SDSU, rather than rejoin CUSA with us? Then the MWC could try to lure BYU back and take one other to get to 16 (maybe UTEP?).

That is far more likely post any Big East implosion

than a return to CUSA. Unfortunately CUSA has no cards to play in this other than to pick off more SBC schools as replacements as needed.

You are correct that is a play that Mountain West could certainly make. The TV contracts will be the key. If TV sets remain the most important component of network contracts C-USA still has a card.

[untjim1995]

But why wouldn't SMU and UH just join the MWC along with potential returnees Boise and SDSU, rather than rejoin CUSA with us? Then the MWC could try to lure BYU back and take one other to get to 16 (maybe UTEP?).

That is far more likely post any Big East implosion

than a return to CUSA. Unfortunately CUSA has no cards to play in this other than to pick off more SBC schools as replacements as needed.

I suspect that this is what will transpire if the BE basketball schools separate, as expected. I expect Boise State and SDSU to definitely stay in the MWC and then BYU should re-apply for admittance, which will be automatically done. That will give them 13. Add in UH, SMU, and UTEP and you have a pretty solid league of 16 teams and they get the Texas markets they want.

The other question in all of this is what happens to the CUSA defectors and the rest of the dying Big East? You have Cincy, UCONN, USF, UCF, ECU, Memphis, Temple, Navy and Tulane. I suspect UConn and Cincy will be gone soon, too, to the ACC, so that leaves 7. Its not hard to imagine them adding USM, UAB, Marshall, Tulsa, and Rice to get to 12. I could also see 16 teams in their league, so that probably would get FIU, UNT, UTSA, and La Tech, too. If we somehow got included in something like this, it would be even better than the CUSA we thought we had joined to begin with.

[Cerebus]

The other question in all of this is what happens to the CUSA defectors and the rest of the dying Big East? You have Cincy, UCONN, USF, UCF, ECU, Memphis, Temple, Navy and Tulane. I suspect UConn and Cincy will be gone soon, too, to the ACC, so that leaves 7. Its not hard to imagine them adding USM, UAB, Marshall, Tulsa, and Rice to get to 12. I could also see 16 teams in their league, so that probably would get FIU, UNT, UTSA, and La Tech, too. If we somehow got included in something like this, it would be even better than the CUSA we thought we had joined to begin with.

NCAA has already said that there are going to be no new autobids for "new" conferences.

Can't imagine the conference they pull together would outstrip any of the other non power conferences when it comes to TV money either.

So unless they want to be in a league without an autobid for no real reason, the leftovers are going to have to find a home in existing conferences.

EDIT:

Let me clarify.

Right now the Catholic BB schools are one vote short of being able to dissolve the current BE and reform it as a new BB centered league. Then they could raid the top BB schools from the A10 and put together a newer Big East lineup that gets them MORE money than what the old BE could do, without the non BB schools screwing their RPI.

So how do they get there?

1) Convince Temple to vote for them. This is unlikely. But one possible scenario is CUSA takes temple for FB, and the new new BE takes them in all sports. They end up with a bunch of great BB schools, and in FB they end up playing many of the schools they would anyway if the BE were to raid CUSA.

2) UCONN or Cinci leaves. They then have enough votes to get to 3/4th. Much more likely.

The left behind schools COULD form a new conference, but like I said there isn't going to be big TV money, and there won't have a tourney autobid. So what makes more sense is they try to get in where they can fit in existing conferences.

ETA2:

Even if the Catholic BB schools can't get enough votes to reform the BE, they have enough votes to lower the exit fee to nothing. Then they can leave as a group and join the A10.

This would be Armageddon. It would cancel all of the BE TV deals, it would void the BE deal with MSG. The remaining schools would have a knife fight over whether to stay and rip apart CUSA East or dissolve and jump into other conferences.

Either way, I don't see the BE existing in it current form, and possibly at all, by next July.

ETA3:

Let's not forget I am the

Edited December 11, 2012 by Cerebus

[Harry]

NCAA has already said that there are going to be no new autobids for "new" conferences.

Can't imagine the conference they pull together would outstrip any of the other non power conferences when it comes to TV money either.

So unless they want to be in a league without an autobid for no real reason, the leftovers are going to have to find a home in existing conferences.

EDIT:

Let me clarify.

Right now the Catholic BB schools are one vote short of being able to dissolve the current BE and reform it as a new BB centered league. Then they could raid the top BB schools from the A10 and put together a newer Big East lineup that gets them MORE money than what the old BE could do, without the non BB schools screwing their RPI.

So how do they get there?

1) Convince Temple to vote for them. This is unlikely. But one possible scenario is CUSA takes temple for FB, and the new new BE takes them in all sports. They end up with a bunch of great BB schools, and in FB they end up playing many of the schools they would anyway if the BE were to raid CUSA.

2) UCONN or Cinci leaves. They then have enough votes to get to 3/4th. Much more likely.

The left behind schools COULD form a new conference, but like I said there isn't going to be big TV money, and there won't have a tourney autobid. So what makes more sense is they try to get in where they can fit in existing conferences.

ETA2:

Even if the Catholic BB schools can't get enough votes to reform the BE, they have enough votes to lower the exit fee to nothing. Then they can leave as a group and join the A10.

This would be Armageddon. It would cancel all of the BE TV deals, it would void the BE deal with MSG. The remaining schools would have a knife fight over whether to stay and rip apart CUSA East or dissolve and jump into other conferences.

Either way, I don't see the BE existing in it current form, and possibly at all, by next July.

ETA3:

Let's not forget I am the

Good stuff. Thanks for posting that!

[Arkstfan]

^{In the current Big East TV deal if you break out what the non-football received vs. the full members share basketball was assigned 2/3rds of the value of the current contract with football worth 1/3 of the contract value.}

^{The agreement with Boise and SDSU requires that they essentially flip those numbers with football being assigned not less than 70% of the value of the TV contract and basketball not more than 30%.}

^{If you are one of the seven sisters, how are you not concerned when basketball was assumed to be 66.67% of the Big East's TV value and now they walk in and say no, no that was wrong, basketball is only 30% of the league's TV value.}

^{I tend to think in reality 66.67% over-valued hoops and 30% under-values it. The Big East provides a LOT of hours of content to ESPN and family in basketball even though it doesn't deliver the sort of ratings football does.}

^{When you look at the overall income of the league, the Big East earns more in NCAA units than it does in bowl units. Throw in the mint they make off the Big East tournament at MSG and the league is highly dependent on basketball revenue.}

[PlummMeanGreen]

All i know it would be a very difficult pill to swallow for UH and SMU to go to playing on the West Coast exclusively. Say what you want, but even if the MWC bring UTEP and Tulsa with them, the travel component will be a nightmare and a fairly ugly recruiting enviroment. It is by no means a slam dunk move to pick the MWC over going back to CUSA. There is a lot of value in keeping your games in the Central and East cost Timezones.

The BE had value because of the increased paycheck and TV exposure. The new MWC really will not provided either. So the real choice is to go with what you know or go west.

The real issue is does the CUSA consider going to 20 and take back UH, SMU, UCF and Memphis? Do they try and get rid of ODU or UNCC and keep Tulane or ECU?

Remember that if there is going to further expansion, there will still be 6 or 8 major teams looking to move to the SEC, B12, B10 and potentially the P12 (however unlikely at this point). That will still mean massive moves to and from the ACC and the potential raids and expansion of the MWC and CUSA. None of these moves will be fleshed out until the moves at the big schools are done first. Once that finally settles down then we will see if the other shoe will ever drop for SMU and UH.

The MWC still has us beat in the perception department. Even the WAC had us beat in that area, too. Ask some recruiting experts on this board why La Tech was able to out-recruit North Texas most times in our own backyard. It was because they joined the WAC with Boise State and Nevada and that was when Boise started making their NCAA presence known. La Tech was still able to ride the WAC name until the league just petered out (like others seem to be on the way of doing). Little history of the WAC:

http://www.wacsports...0&ATCLID=537066

The MWC would be a good conference for North Texas if there were a 2 or 3 more Texas schools in it along with Tulsa and/or Rice (as one of the Texas schools). Probably not going to happen but who'd ever believe other NCAA conference scenarios in play now.

If Tulsa and Rice leave for the MWC, then North Texas is left with very much unsolicited egg on its face because we would have made the equivalent of a lateral conference move and would truly

then be in the SBC 2.0. This whole thing is getting very tiring. I wish the NCAA had a baseball type commissioner like the old timer Kenesaw Mountain Landis who would take the bull by the horns and

create some sanity in all this going on today. http://en.wikipedia....Mountain_Landis Just looking at the guy would scare the be'jesus out of most and help others regain their sanity.

GMG!

Edited December 12, 2012 by PlummMeanGreen

[Cerebus]

If you are one of the seven sisters, how are you not concerned when basketball was assumed to be 66.67% of the Big East's TV value and now they walk in and say no, no that was wrong, basketball is only 30% of the league's TV value.

I tend to think in reality 66.67% over-valued hoops and 30% under-values it. The Big East provides a LOT of hours of content to ESPN and family in basketball even though it doesn't deliver the sort of ratings football does.

Which is the real reason the Catholic BB schools are leaving. Under the latest proposed contract, the payout to BB only schools is around 1.2 million. Or about what CUSA FB teams get paid.

No reason to put up with the RPI hit for that amount of money, especially when if they can take the BE name, leave the schools they don't want, and swipe the gems from the A10. They probably get as much or more money for that and no RPI worries.

^When you look at the overall income of the league, the Big East earns more in NCAA units than it does in bowl units. Throw in the mint they make off the Big East tournament at MSG and the league is highly dependent on basketball revenue.

Another reason the leaving schools will make sure they don't leave the other schools with an autobid. That is just one more for them to snatch themselves.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Cerebus

[Arkstfan]

Which is the real reason the Catholic BB schools are leaving. Under the latest proposed contract, the payout to BB only schools is around 1.2 million. Or about what CUSA FB teams get paid.

No reason to put up with the RPI hit for that amount of money, especially when if they can take the BE name, leave the schools they don't want, and swipe the gems from the A10. They probably get as much or more money for that and no RPI worries.

Another reason the leaving schools will make sure they don't leave the other schools with an autobid. That is just one more for them to snatch themselves.

Exactly its a double hit. They got screwed on the TV deal and it hasn't even been negotiated yet and lose the hoop strength that makes them an NCAA unit earning beast.