Mountain West meeting this weekend

[Mean Green 93-98]

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. First off, you're telling me the A$M always wanted to be in the SEC? They didn't get to pick the SEC, the SEC picked them and that move never happens without other conference realignment and the LHN. A$M is the most awesome school ever to get Nebraska and Colorado to leave, then somehow get UT to start the Longhorn Network, and start the idea of the super-conference all so they can finally have cover to leave for the SEC. Those Aggies are brilliant!!

A&M was flirting with the SEC way back before the SWC folded and the Big XII was formed.

[NT91]

Texas st. Or Georgia Southern would be a good add to CUSA.

[Green Mean]

The MWC would be a great fit for us. Perception wise it is the best Non BCS conference and they have very solid schools and programs. People speak about the Big West days and I don't doubt maybe those were some wheels off times but it's a different landscape now IMO.

And I can see Boise and SDSU coming back at some point. You add those two schools then that is pretty salty conference mattes to be a part of if we can get NT in the MWC on top of the schools already there.

[eulessismore]

I would like to see NT in a western Div. Of the MWC.

So we could drive to away games in San Jose and Reno?

[NT91]

Sorry eastern Div.

[NM Green]

The question is how many programs does the MWC need? In the biggest case scenario you could have:

San Jose State

Fresno State

San Diego State

Boise State

Utah State

UNLV

New Mexico

Nevada

Air Force

Colorado State

UTEP

Tulsa

SMU

Houston

Wyoming

BYU

Doesn't that still leave Rice for CUSA making CUSA:

Rice

UNT

UTSA

La Tech

Texas State

Middle Tennessee

FIU

FAU

Southern Miss

Old Dominion

UNC Charlotte

UAB

This is still better than our current lineup. I would think Marshall would be a good candidate for the Big East.

GMG

[Legend500]

Here's the list which (so far) has mattered a lot more than anything else. Conferences won't go too crazy - for the new teams there needs to be some possibility of competition, and generally must be in or near their catchment area (except for the Big East) - but guess what: Nate Silver is running the numbers in this "election" as well. The MWC's options are (by FBS market rank, school and reliable viewers):

43 BYU 709,864

57 Boise State 483,489

77 SDSU 242,126

86 UNT 202,188

92 LATech 179,991

96 Idaho 169,351

97 SMU 163,671

103 Rice 126,901

105 Tulsa 119,686

107 UTEP 114,592

111 Tulane 101,701

112 Houston 100,253

116 NMSU 70,427

Edited December 8, 2012 by Legend500

[VideoEagle]

A&M was flirting with the SEC way back before the SWC folded and the Big XII was formed.

Exactly, a growing group of Aggies has been pushing SEC since Arkansas left. They didnt get critical mass for the move till the Longhorn Network formed, but the SEC group was very influential for many years before Nebraska and Colorado left. That group kept the Aggies from joining Colorado!

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Funny ha ha? Or funny peculiar?

Peculiar...it's an engineering school.

Also peculiar is their endowment...817 million. UNT's, I believe is just over 100 million.

I'm telling you. There is money at TU.

Edited December 9, 2012 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

So we could drive to away games in San Jose and Reno?

http://travel.southwest.com/travel/destinationDetails.html?cityName=San+Jose

http://travel.southwest.com/travel/destinationDetails.html?cityName=Reno

Hmmm...weekend in Reno/Tahoe...weekend in Rustin? I like the sound of us in the MWC. I'm dreaming like Samuel Taylor Coleridge on an opium trip; but, I like the sound of it.

[Christopher Walker]

So.....does anyone know what came from talks at all today?

[Green Crazy]

http://travel.southwest.com/travel/destinationDetails.html?cityName=San+Jose

http://travel.southwest.com/travel/destinationDetails.html?cityName=Reno

Hmmm...weekend in Reno/Tahoe...weekend in Rustin? I like the sound of us in the MWC. I'm dreaming like Samuel Taylor Coleridge on an opium trip; but, I like the sound of it.

For 5 times the money.

[UNTexas]

The Mountain West sounds very similar to the Big West circa 1997. Several teams anyway.

[wardly]

Yes, Tulsa is tiny...but, it has wealthy and generous, when prodded, alumni.

The other thing people will never understand about Tulsa, unless you attend, is that many of those wealthy alumni care more about basketball than football. Their little basketball arena gets very loud and racous.

The Tulsa-UTEP basketball games when I was there were great...ditto, the Tulsa-Fresno State match ups. Watching Tark chew his towel and work the refs from the first row were great sports memories I carried away from that little place.

Being small and weird like they are, I'm telling you that TU looks at the basketball angle. And, MWC is now a step up in basketball over C-USA as well since Memphis is gone.

Tulsa's nearly new arena seats 7,000,same size as UTA's new $69 million venue. Not exactly tiny.

[Arkstfan]

At one time, Tulsa had a waiting list for season tickets in basketball. They've not been at that level in some time to my knowledge but they are a school that loves hoops.

[untgeorge]

It's pretty well known A&M s wanting to go to the SEC without Texas was what scuttled the original PAC 16 deal.

What scuttled the UT to PAC-16 deal was that UT insisted on having its Longhorn Network and the PAC- said no. Neither side would give. The LHR is also what drove A&M and Missouri to the SEC.

[PlummMeanGreen]

What scuttled the UT to PAC-16 deal was that UT insisted on having its Longhorn Network and the PAC- said no. Neither side would give. The LHR is also what drove A&M and Missouri to the SEC.

And recent rumor has the Longhorn Network going belly-up which would open up new discussions that UT and OU might go PAC 12? I'm sorry, but I get the feeling that UT thinks TAMU has "one-up'ed" them with their SEC move and that UT could use the PAC 12 to even that score?

All this is like those old time Saturday movie serials where you have to wait till next weeks episode to see how the present one plays out. Of course, all that was well before my time.

GMG!

PS: Like many of you, I hope somehow North Texas will stumble into the MWC with our #5 (soon to be #4) ranked TV market but with 3 or 4 other Texas-based schools which would still give us our regional schedule but at a higher level.

Say what you say (and maybe ask a few Horned Frog's opinions, too) but the nMWC would be at a higher level.. The nCUSA has fallen from grace about as quickly as any league could have ever done in the space of a few months. All this is incredibly frustrating (but interesting at the same time).

The schools that have been "has beens" and "used to be's" for way too long with their long past traditions and the interest in those schools from folks 1 or 2 time zones away is to me the most intriguing part of this whole re-alignment affair. I stand amazed at what a school did well over 70 years ago in NCAA football but really not much else since still have so much capital with all these conference commissioners.

GMG ! !

Edited December 17, 2012 by PlummMeanGreen

[Arkstfan]

What scuttled the UT to PAC-16 deal was that UT insisted on having its Longhorn Network and the PAC- said no. Neither side would give. The LHR is also what drove A&M and Missouri to the SEC.

That was Pac-12 round two (OU, OkSt, UT, TT). LHN wasn't a factor when the discussion was UT, TT, TAMU, OU, OKSt going to the Pac-10 with Colorado (and Utah not being invited.

If you search the arcives of either FWS&T or DaMN there is a piece from some years back that details how when Arkansas left for the SEC that TAMU was ready to join the SEC and UT was wanting in the Big 10 before the politicians mobilized.

[Arkstfan]

LHN is unlikely to go belly-up. ESPN is on the hook for the full contract no matter whether it exists or not. The only loss to UT would be the equity share that they would get if it were to meet contracted targets.

[untjim1995]

BS...

Pac-12 Commissioner publicly stated several times that the LHN was not the issue and would have been rolled into the sub market individual/dual school setup that is already offered by the Pac12N. Pac16 died because Fox agreed to "over pay" and the west coast Pac 12 schools didn't like to have to slum academically.. Which I find funny because they got stuck with Utah.

Secondly, the LHN was a convenient excuse for A&M to the SEC. If it was the cause, why was A&M looking to move the year prior to the SEC? If you are buying the LHN story is the cause, I got some ocean front property in Ariz to sell ya. The SEC move was simply about more money and exposure for A&M. It was the right move on their part, but trying to make excuses for the move is baseless. As far as Mizzou, they kinda forced themselves out after trying to lure the B10 and failing. They were hoping long and hard for the B10 invite and jumped on the SEC invite thinking realignment was over. More than likely it was a mistake for both them and the SEC.

Amazing how quickly revise history to hate on big bad UT.

The LHN was the perfect excuse for A&M to finally get what they wanted back in 1989. They wanted to go to the SEC back then, but the legislature wouldn't allow Texas and A&M to be separated. Then, when the Big Eight offered Texas and A&M a lifeline to get away from the deadbeats in the SWC, Tech and Baylor used their legislative pull to get included in this conference, too. Basically, those last two were the biggest ticks that were allowed to stay on the hounds. The others got cut loose, without warning. The thing for A&M was always feeling like they were under big brother's control (legislatively, image-wise, and media-wise) and wanting to emerge from their shadow. They certainly had no interest in going west to the Pac-16, since they had no cultural fit to that area at all, whereas the SEC was a perfect cultural fit for them. The LHN is a miserable deal for all parties and it will have inflicted severe damage to UT before its all done. It gave A&M an outlet to join the premier conference in the country while being the only Texas school in that league. Now, especially after this first season in the SEC, they are cleaning up in recruiting. A&M will have the prestige of the SEC for a long time ahead. There is simply no way that Texas can tell Texas HS kids that they will play anything close to who the Aggies will host and visit going forward. Lubbock, Waco, Stillwater, Ames, Manhattan, etc...they don't excatly matchup with games against the SEC, IMO. If A&M can keep it up over there, they are going to make this decade look like the 80s and 90s all over again in this state, record wise and recruiting wise.

The LHN will do one of two things for Texas--either it will get dissolved, allowing Texas to go join another conference, or it forces Texas to go independent to get ESPN the coverage they thought they would get for the channel to be included on all of the cable/satellite outlets when they first signed the deal. I truly believe that Texas going indy would only last a few years, because it would allow them to avoid the litany of lawsuits that Baylor, TCU, and Tech would file if they leave without them. The PAC doesn't want Tech, but UT wants an ally with them to also be the bad guy in the state, so the PAC is willing to take Texas' buddies without the LHN being only Longhorn-centric (Tech, OU, and OSU). OU found out real quick how little they really are in this argument, since they seemingly cannot get separated from OSU (see T.Boone Pickens) and the PAC told them to go on back because they were only taking OU if Texas was coming with them. Without Texas, no one out west will take Tech or OSU. This is where the B1G would come in to play--they would covet Texas, but Texas has the "Tech Problem", as an email from the Texas President to B1G leaders called it back when realignment first showed up in 2010., meaning that Texas cannot just leave the Big XII without Tech (at a bare minimum) to immediately join another conference. Of course, the B1G has nothing but CIC and AAU schools in their league, so Tech's academics won't play there either. Now that Texas has seen Baylor basically threaten to sue everyone to stay relevant in FBS, this must scare them to death, as TCU (and Tech to a certain degree) all will be ready to join forces to sue Texas to stay in their league or take them with them. The B1G and the PAC will never take any of those two private schools, so the reality is that Tech is the biggest tick on the hound now. But even they are susceptible to getting left behind if Texas looks at the landscape and goes indy. No one could sue them for leaving the Big XII for another conference and Texas could agree to play them for the years ahead. Then after a few years, Texas gets their pick of where to go without the threat of lawsuits being filed. Of course, the LHN, which is not even acceptable to any conference as it currently exists, would have to either go away or get altered. When that happens, then the options for Texas will be endless. But until then, they have just succeeded in giving A&M the best present any big brother could ever give to their little brother: relevance without any more interference.

[untjim1995]

That was Pac-12 round two (OU, OkSt, UT, TT). LHN wasn't a factor when the discussion was UT, TT, TAMU, OU, OKSt going to the Pac-10 with Colorado (and Utah not being invited.

If you search the arcives of either FWS&T or DaMN there is a piece from some years back that details how when Arkansas left for the SEC that TAMU was ready to join the SEC and UT was wanting in the Big 10 before the politicians mobilized.

True--the LHN didn't come into existence until after the first Pac deal went under. That was when Dan Beebe made a deal to get better TV contract money to the remining 10 and gave UT, OU, and A&M a bigger share than the other 7 Big XII teams. When A&M and Mizzou both left, shockingly, TCU and WVU were told that they could not get their full share until they had been in the league for a few years, giving everyone else more money. No other conference has ever worked like this with the unequal sharing--that's why I have severe doubts on whether the Big XII can really last long-term. If they can get some of those ACC schools to join, then I see it lasting. But, if they stay at 10, it will just be a matter of time before the poaching begins. They are too valuable of commodities in that league to be ignored--Texas and Oklahoma football, Kansas basketball, plus they all come from good TV markets. OU wouild do like Nebraska did when they claimed they would deliver the Kansas City market and a national following, which was the main reason Nebraska was taken over Mizzou. Oklahoma will claim the DFW TVs, as well as their national name. OU has to get rid of OSU, though, just like KU kas to do to with K-State, because no will take them in the B1G or the PAC. If those three can shed their little brothers, they will have options all over. Tech, OSU, and KSU may benefit from the names of their big brothers and also get included, but Baylor, TCU, and Iowa State are gonna be out cold if this thing ever breaks up. It will look like the Big East does today, losing its AQ status and falling into the abyss the other 5 non-AQs.

Edited December 18, 2012 by untjim1995

[untjim1995]

What? Other than Cal and maybe UCLA, who would be a stronger academic school. Washington is strong, but other than those three, no one else in the PAC 10 could ever question UT's academics.

I think Stanford would probably have a few words to say about this...

[Arkstfan]

Actually what conferences have done in the past is say, you owe us X dollars in admission fee. We are going to withhold Y dollars per year from your distribution until X is paid. That's basically what the Big XII has done.