Mountain West meeting this weekend

PlummMeanGreen · December 7, 2012

I think this could end very badly for us as in...Tulsa, UTEP, Rice and UTSA added and us stuck in CUSA with no other Texas schools until CUSA adds Tx State.

One can only wonder how many more times re-alignment takes place (now or in the future) that North Texas will stlll not be positioned with an authentic, bonafide NCAA FBS level athletic program whereas it would be North Texas being talked up by those doing the talking. We are nowhere to be found or mentioned as a legit candidate for MWC in most other message board discussions on the MWC situation. Like our UNT athletic officials who say they "NEVER" read this board? Don't kid yourself, they do (or they have others who read this board for them) and rest assured so do conference commissioners just like the MWC's Craig Thompson.

No doubt it was location (but mostly SMU leaving) which helped us with CUSA but this next movement seems to be about programs that have some semblance of success at a reasonable NCAA FBS level and (once again) that doesn't come close to describing our alma mater.

One has to marvel how long all this has still been allowed to continue in Denton because (truth be told) we were not ready or positioned at other times when CUSA expanded.

We've had all the red flags for years concerning why we are looked upon and judged harshly at times, but in Denton that usually translates into pay raises and extended contracts--almost a guarantee that no other NCAA FBS program operates this way and if they did most schools do whatever it takes to improve their product, maybe even hiring new, energetic, un-jaded talent who have a record of success and a genuine appreciation of the customer base.

Edited December 7, 2012 by PlummMeanGreen

UNTLifer · December 7, 2012

Has it really gotten so bad that people refer to our President and AD as "Fric and Frac" or complain about every little thing about our program? Honestly, none of us know what is going on proof by Tulane heading to the Big East.

GrandGreen · December 7, 2012

The MWC is not a good option for NT, as it is now. The allure of the MWC is more disenchantment among the remaining CUSA members then it is the merits of the MWC. The MWC is a bad option for Tulsa, NT, Rice and UTSA and anyone else but UTEP currently in CUSA. Yes, that changes quickly if several team vacate to the MWC. That fear of being left behind and disappointment in the rapid deterioration of CUSA has every team concerned with were this all is going.

Mean Green 93-98 · December 7, 2012

The MWC is not a good option for NT, as it is now. The allure of the MWC is more disenchantment among the remaining CUSA members then it is the merits of the MWC. The MWC is a bad option for Tulsa, NT, Rice and UTSA and anyone else but UTEP currently in CUSA. Yes, that changes quickly if several team vacate to the MWC. That fear of being left behind and disappointment in the rapid deterioration of CUSA has every team concerned with w[h]ere this all is going.

Exactly.

Rudy · December 7, 2012

Dear CUSA,

I know we got a divorce from the SBC to be with you, but, well, we don't know if the time is right. It's not that we are getting cold feet, we just want to be sure you are the conference we want to be with for the rest of our lives. We want to date around and make sure that you are the one for us. As the saying goes, "If you love something, let it go and see if it returns."

Sincerely,

UNT

DeepGreen · December 7, 2012

Should have been in front of them as soon as FAU and MTSU were announced as CUSA adds.

Should have been in front of them as soon as Tulane and ECU left for the big east.

GL2Greatness · December 7, 2012

The new CUSA is the old belt except for one thing -- a whole bunch more television money in the neighborhood of $3 million a year above what we've been getting on a contract that I understand is locked in for a good while.

that would be very hard to do when the CUSA TV contract only pays out 1.17 million per year per team

One can only wonder how many more times re-alignment takes place (now or in the future) that North Texas will stlll not be positioned with an authentic, bonafide NCAA FBS level athletic program whereas it would be North Texas being talked up by those doing the talking. We are nowhere to be found or mentioned as a legit candidate for MWC in most other message board discussions on the MWC situation. Like our UNT athletic officials who say they "NEVER" read this board? Don't kid yourself, they do (or they have others who read this board for them) and rest assured so do conference commissioners just like the MWC's Craig Thompson.

No doubt it was location (but mostly SMU leaving) which helped us with CUSA but this next movement seems to be about programs that have some semblance of success at a reasonable NCAA FBS level and (once again) that doesn't come close to describing our alma mater.

One has to marvel how long all this has still been allowed to continue in Denton because (truth be told) we were not ready or positioned at other times when CUSA expanded.

We've had all the red flags for years concerning why we are looked upon and judged harshly at times, but in Denton that usually translates into pay raises and extended contracts--almost a guarantee that no other NCAA FBS program operates this way and if they did most schools do whatever it takes to improve their product, maybe even hiring new, energetic, un-jaded talent who have a record of success and a genuine appreciation of the customer base.

NCAA 30 pushes really hard for north Texas on the MWC forum :whistling1:

outoftown · December 7, 2012

that would be very hard to do when the CUSA TV contract only pays out 1.17 million per year per team

Even if it is only 1.17 million.... that is loads better than the belt who is locked into a tv contract till 2017 or 2018 that is just utterly terrible. It means a realistic shot at getting rid of a "body bag" game at the beginning of the season. The Belt members should thank the departed comissioner who negotiated that terrible contract (for once Benson is not to blame)!

Also I think that the fact that the belt has no exit fee in whatever shape or form, means teams are willing to bolt much quicker...they don't need to think about outs. Those 2 facts more than anything is why C-USA will survive and remain better than the belt, while the belt only survives if realignment comes to a halt or they keep inviting move-ups (I think the lesson Benson learned from the WAC, is that he can never invite enough move-ups. Whether that is a good lesson...).

Edited December 7, 2012 by outoftown

wardly · December 7, 2012

UTEP has had several opportunities to move to MWC, and so far prefer to reach out to their fan base in DFW,S.A., and Houston over Albuquerque. I would be susprised if that changes. Tulsa, while unhappy with CUSA departures, especially Tulane, is smallest D1 school in NCAA, and has a very small fan base. While I would be susprised if they moved to MWC and different time zone,nothing would shock me after Tulane's move to Big Yeast.At the end of the day I think it would be logical for The Belt and CUSA to effect some type of merger that makes geographical sense and has the blessing of the t.v. GODS. Since it seems logical,it won't happen.

cdizzle86 · December 7, 2012

As volatile as the conferences have become, I am pleased in our position because it's better than it was a year ago. Next year we will be playing quality opponents, even if it is only for 1 year. It is our chance to prove that we can hang with better competition. If we actually show up next year, we may can position ourselves for another move up the ladder.

With that said, it would definitely help out if SMU makes an idiot mistake similar to what LaTech did with their bowl this year. If their big heads get in the way, and it's very possible, they could screw the pooch and open the door for North Texas to gain the upper hand as the metroplex team (outside of TCU).

I know this sounds crazy, but who knows what will happen over the next year or 2.

Mean Green 93-98 · December 7, 2012

UTEP has had several opportunities to move to MWC, and so far prefer to reach out to their fan base in DFW,S.A., and Houston over Albuquerque. I would be susprised if that changes.

No doubt having alumni in DFW and Houston played in part, but so did their associations with former SWC teams that they had in C-USA. There's only one of those left now.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · December 7, 2012

UTEP has had several opportunities to move to MWC, and so far prefer to reach out to their fan base in DFW,S.A., and Houston over Albuquerque. I would be susprised if that changes. Tulsa, while unhappy with CUSA departures, especially Tulane, is smallest D1 school in NCAA, and has a very small fan base. While I would be susprised if they moved to MWC and different time zone,nothing would shock me after Tulane's move to Big Yeast.At the end of the day I think it would be logical for The Belt and CUSA to effect some type of merger that makes geographical sense and has the blessing of the t.v. GODS. Since it seems logical,it won't happen.

Yes, Tulsa is tiny...but, it has wealthy and generous, when prodded, alumni.

The other thing people will never understand about Tulsa, unless you attend, is that many of those wealthy alumni care more about basketball than football. Their little basketball arena gets very loud and racous.

The Tulsa-UTEP basketball games when I was there were great...ditto, the Tulsa-Fresno State match ups. Watching Tark chew his towel and work the refs from the first row were great sports memories I carried away from that little place.

Being small and weird like they are, I'm telling you that TU looks at the basketball angle. And, MWC is now a step up in basketball over C-USA as well since Memphis is gone.

foutsrouts · December 7, 2012

Time zone is pretty much a non-issue with the MWC as far as I'm concerned. Of course it's highly dependent on who comes or goes, but somewhere near half the teams in that conference would only be one hour behind us. We already have a similar issue going the other direction with CUSA.

So for most of our conference road games in a two division MWC, a six o'clock road game starts here at seven, and a seven o'clock road game starts here at eight. No biggie. Of course we might sometimes miss out on the occasional 5 word comment on our game at the end of Dale Hansen's sportscast, but I could probably live with that.

I do agree that the drivable games to Houston, Ruston, Tulsa, San Antonio, and to a certain extent El Paso are preferable if most of those schools don't run off and leave us. Without the addition of more CUSA schools, the long boring drive to Albuquerque, and the long drives to the three "Denver area" schools wouldn't exactly be convenient road trips.

I just hope that everyone decides to stick around for now. At least until we start winning.

Harry · December 7, 2012

Time zone is pretty much a non-issue with the MWC as far as I'm concerned. Of course it's highly dependent on who comes or goes, but somewhere near half the teams in that conference would only be one hour behind us. We already have a similar issue going the other direction with CUSA.

It can be a big deal from the non revenue sport perspective. Remember TCU joined back when they had BYU then Boise and they are no longer in.

We have such bad memories from the Big West -- you lose a couple of hours every time you head out there is seems. It's not a good proposition for the student athlete as compared to bus trips within the state. If Tulsa leaves we would have to take that under consideration but right now we would make less money and have fewer games that our fans could drive to. It just doesn't make sense. Sit tight and see what happens with the Big East. If they lose another key school (ie UConn or Cincy) the basketball schools would most likely dissolve and reform... my understanding is they can keep their basketball units from the tourney. It's much harder to reform a football conference. C-USA should leave spots open for Houston, SMU, Tulane etc if the Big East indeed implodes. That is their best play right now.

Eagle1855 · December 7, 2012

I don't care what conference we are in. I just want us to win.

People keep talking about TCU. Well, TCU spent 16 years being the best in any and every conference in which they were invited to be a member.

They didn't get to the Big 12 because they are a private school, or because they have donors, or because they are in FW- all of those things were nice complements to the fact that they were WINNERS.

TIgreen01 · December 7, 2012

I don't care what conference we are in. I just want us to win.

People keep talking about TCU. Well, TCU spent 16 years being the best in any and every conference in which they were invited to be a member.

They didn't get to the Big 12 because they are a private school, or because they have donors, or because they are in FW- all of those things were nice complements to the fact that they were WINNERS.

Close. They won b/c they continuously raised their budget over the course of those 16 years to ensure that they were spending on a level with Big 12 schools. In the NCAA, it's all about budget.

Arkstfan · December 7, 2012

You have to understand what makes someone tick if you want to guess correctly what they will do in a given circumstance. Understand their logic and things should make more sense.

When CUSA formed up, Tulsa had the chance to be a part of it but affiliating with TCU, SMU, Rice was a greater draw for them. They left the WAC as a package (sans TCU). They only got in CUSA because Tulane insisted that Tulsa, SMU, Rice be admitted or they would leave CUSA to join the WAC.

The hook that made CUSA their destination is now erased except for Rice.

With UTEP they had found the affiliation with the rest of Texas to be a positive but SMU and Houston are now gone. Their history has been with New Mexico, Air Force, Colorado State, and Wyoming, If they can get some sort of Texas connection, MWC is their perfect fit, probably their ultimate ideal.

So you've got a UTEP that can really benefit coupled with a Tulsa that is just disgusted that TCU, SMU, Tulane, three of the four schools important to them are out of the picture.

While UTSA is likely a positive in the mind of UTEP, they are undoubtedly a negative in the eyes of the Tulsa administration as a start-up program.

If you are the MWC and want to raid three to five schools to round out to 12 or 14 after losing Fresno, you start with Tulsa and UTEP. That makes everyone in the western part of CUSA nervouse and ready to jump and Tulsa has some degree of input (though likely no vote) on who the third or the third, fourth and fifth team are.

If you look at the conference expansion models. The history of CUSA has been market, market, market, with the sole exceptions being La.Tech (which I believe was related to a joint action to put the WAC out of business) ECU (forced on the league by the Liberty Bowl but with a great winning history and great attendance) and Marshall (good winning history and good attendance).

The MWC with the exception of SJSU and UNLV has selected members based on good football and good gate receipts. The problem the MWC has now is the well is exhausted. There is nothing left to select in their region except two programs with poor winning histories, poor attendance and very small markets. They have to come east for protection.

meanrob · December 7, 2012

History or affliation has played no role in conference alignment.

To me CUSA has made a huge mistake by taking in so many schools. If the Big East does impode I can't see SMU, Houston, Memphis, Tulane and the others coming back to make up a 20+ team conference with the likes of FIU, ODU, FAU, UTSA, and us among others.

If MWC is smart they stay at 10-12 teams and have room for the western schools if they come back.

Then again, smart has played no role in conference alignment.

ntmeangreen11 · December 7, 2012

I wonder if we could possibly get that home and home back with Tulsa once they leave. I think it was for 2014/2015, that is the only positive I can see right now.

Tulsa,UTSA, UTEP, Rice, LT, USM & Marshall are the only schools I half care about competing against and it looks like two or three of them are about to jump ship.

Arkstfan · December 8, 2012

History or affliation has played no role in conference alignment.

To me CUSA has made a huge mistake by taking in so many schools. If the Big East does impode I can't see SMU, Houston, Memphis, Tulane and the others coming back to make up a 20+ team conference with the likes of FIU, ODU, FAU, UTSA, and us among others.

If MWC is smart they stay at 10-12 teams and have room for the western schools if they come back.

Then again, smart has played no role in conference alignment.

History does matter because it sheds insight on what drives someone. Remember that Texas wanted to take TT, TAMU, OU, OkSt with them to the Pac-12 and the deal collapsed when TAMU started talking to the SEC. TAMU wanted in the SEC when Arkansas left. Then they vote to give third tier to the schools, Texas gets LHN and TAMU gets cover to make the move they tried to make back in 1989.

History tells us that NMSU finds a conference affiliation in football in desperate times. The Valley had run out of options and took them. The Big West had run out of options and took them. The Sun Belt couldn't get off the ground without them. The WAC ran out of options and took them.

Right now MWC is at 9 full 10 football but the Big East is at 13 for football and has to add one more for the west to work but there have been multiple reports that they are contemplating 16 for football. The claims are out there that adding Central time zone teams and calling them western isn't appeasing Boise and SDSU so you have to think MWC loses one or two more to the Big East unless the league punts on the western experiment.

The MWC if it loses one full member is at the NCAA minimum, Hawaii then has to come in for all sports to be at 9.

More importantly if MWC loses one more to the Big East that makes it all but certain that hopes of luring Boise and SDSU back are dead.

I don't see MWC taking anyone today but once that invite happens they have to come east or they have to settle for being the new WAC (10 former members) or the new Big West (five former members) with no place to turn except to an NMSU and Idaho that don't fit the model MWC has followed.

meanrob · December 8, 2012

History does matter because it sheds insight on what drives someone. Remember that Texas wanted to take TT, TAMU, OU, OkSt with them to the Pac-12 and the deal collapsed when TAMU started talking to the SEC. TAMU wanted in the SEC when Arkansas left. Then they vote to give third tier to the schools, Texas gets LHN and TAMU gets cover to make the move they tried to make back in 1989

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. First off, you're telling me the A$M always wanted to be in the SEC? They didn't get to pick the SEC, the SEC picked them and that move never happens without other conference realignment and the LHN. A$M is the most awesome school ever to get Nebraska and Colorado to leave, then somehow get UT to start the Longhorn Network, and start the idea of the super-conference all so they can finally have cover to leave for the SEC. Those Aggies are brilliant!!

By the way, I say history and affliation have nothing to do with conference realignment and can point out numerous examples (Maryland to the Big 10, Boise and SDSU to the Big East, Missouri to the SEC, Syracuse and Pitt to the ACC) and you give me one. A dubious one at that.

For the most part none of this has been predictable and to say that we can predict future alignment by looking at the past? Sorry just don't buy it.

But hey, if you can find a post from days gone by where you predicted Boise in the Big East, Maryland in the Big Ten, TCU to the Big 12, not to mention all the other craziness that has happen, i'd love to see it.

VideoEagle · December 8, 2012

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. First off, you're telling me the A$M always wanted to be in the SEC? They didn't get to pick the SEC, the SEC picked them and that move never happens without other conference realignment and the LHN. A$M is the most awesome school ever to get Nebraska and Colorado to leave, then somehow get UT to start the Longhorn Network, and start the idea of the super-conference all so they can finally have cover to leave for the SEC. Those Aggies are brilliant!!

By the way, I say history and affliation have nothing to do with conference realignment and can point out numerous examples (Maryland to the Big 10, Boise and SDSU to the Big East, Missouri to the SEC, Syracuse and Pitt to the ACC) and you give me one. A dubious one at that.

For the most part none of this has been predictable and to say that we can predict future alignment by looking at the past? Sorry just don't buy it.

But hey, if you can find a post from days gone by where you predicted Boise in the Big East, Maryland in the Big Ten, TCU to the Big 12, not to mention all the other craziness that has happen, i'd love to see it.

It's pretty well known A&M s wanting to go to the SEC without Texas was what scuttled the original PAC 16 deal.

Edited December 8, 2012 by VideoEagle

The Fake Lonnie Finch · December 8, 2012

TW Blog on TU's AD search and Big East vs. C-USA vs. MWC conundrum. As mentioned earlier, he throws in basketball RPI. Tulsa is little, weird...and basketball is important to them.

I'm just sayin...when I was there and they were in the midst of going 1-10 and 1-11 in 2001 and 2002, they were seriously talking about dropping football to I-AA or dropping it altogether and concentrating on becoming Gonzaga-like.

It's a weird, weird, little school, you guys.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/sportspost.aspx?AD_or_no_Tulsa_faces_important_questions_in_need_of_answers/50-18086